So I have a DVD with 12.something on it, not too old. I plan to install that, and then see what's on this workstation that I also might want to install, and then go from there. I'm currently using virtualbox on this machine, but would like toexplore some other options for virtualization on the new box.
Any suggestions as to how I might proceed to making things current and what other software I might want to include are welcomed...
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin
On Sat, Dec 21, 2024 at 12:44:34PM -0500, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
So I have a DVD with 12.something on it, not too old. I plan to
install that, and then see what's on this workstation that I also
might want to install, and then go from there. I'm currently
using virtualbox on this machine, but would like to explore some
other options for virtualization on the new box.
Any suggestions as to how I might proceed to making things current
and what other software I might want to include are welcomed...
Straightforwardly - boot from the DVD (if the new machine has a DVD
drive) or dd a netinst .iso to a USB stick if not.
Set the machine to boot in UEFI mode if this is available rather than
legacy MBR / both.
Do a network install. That should bring you up to date by downloading packages for the install as it goes.
Use KVM/QEMU instead of virtual box. I tend to use virtual machine
manager
Remember that the Debian desktop environment selection installs GNOME.
If you specifically want one of the others, unselect Debian desktop environment within tasksel - usually by toggling with spacebar -
and install one of the others.
So I have a DVD with 12.something on it, not too old. I plan to install that, and then see what's on this workstation that I also might want to install, and then go from there. I'm currently using virtualbox on this machine, but would like toexplore some other options for virtualization on the new box.
Any suggestions as to how I might proceed to making things current and what other software I might want to include are welcomed...
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, Ā a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. Ā --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
He didn't say if the computer will come with Windows installed,
Roy,
If you do not mind me asking, what is the make and model of the Video card (GPU) that will be in the new workstation? Will you be using two GPUs in the computer?
I would also be interested in knowing what brand and type of CPU is in the computer.
These will affect virtualisation software.
Do you know what do you want to achieve with virtualisation software?
Do you want to just run CLI interfaces to virtualised servers?
Will you want to run Windows or Linux with GUIs like KDE Plasma or Gnome using X11 and/or Wayland?
Do you want to watch video from the guests (i.e. virtual machines) ?
Will you want to hear sound from the virtual machines ?
Do you want to run any 3D programs and/or games running within the virtual machines ?
Do you want to be able to do GPU passthrough for any specific virtual machines?
Do you want to implement nested virtualisation so you can run virtualised hypervisors?
Roy,Video card (GPU) that will be in the new workstation?Ā Ā Will you be
If you do not mind me asking, what is the make and model of the
I would also be interested in knowing what brand and type of CPU isin the computer.
These will affect virtualisation software.
Do you know what do you want to achieve with virtualisationsoftware?
Do you want to just run CLI interfaces to virtualised servers?
Will you want to run Windows or Linux with GUIs like KDE Plasma orGnome using X11 and/or Wayland?
Do you want to watch video from the guests (i.e. virtual machines) ?
Will you want to hear sound from the virtual machines ?
Do you want to run any 3D programs and/or games running within thevirtual machines ?
Do you want to be able to do GPU passthrough for any specificvirtual machines?
Do you want to implement nested virtualisation so you can runvirtualised hypervisors?
<div>I expect your new
So I have a DVD with 12.something on it, not too old. I plan to install that, and then see what's on this workstation that I also might want to install, and then go from there. I'm currently using virtualbox on this machine, but would like toexplore some other options for virtualization on the new box.
Any suggestions as to how I might proceed to making things current and what other software I might want to include are welcomed...
Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:explore some other options for virtualization on the new box.
So I have a DVD with 12.something on it, not too old. I plan to install that, and then see what's on this workstation that I also might want to install, and then go from there. I'm currently using virtualbox on this machine, but would like to
Any suggestions as to how I might proceed to making things current and what other software I might want to include are welcomed...
12.something is stable. yet you say you want current... ?
are you fairly confident with your skills that it wouldn't
be an issue to try some things? ordering a barebones
machine with no OS implies to me that you're likely to be
ok with playing around a bit. :)
if you have a USB stick available i would suggest just
doing the copy of the most recent stable iso version to it
and go from there. or even better yet for more current
would be a testing iso.
between some changes and security updates you can avoid
any extra cruft this way.
the reason for doing this is that a newer machine may
have more recent hardware that might not be recognized by
the installer or the older kernels may not have the best
drivers.
i see you mention running a pretty light desktop
management system so that also indicates someone who's
more into command line things.
On Saturday 21 December 2024 02:20:20 pm Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
Set the machine to boot in UEFI mode if this is available rather than legacy MBR / both.
Why is this preferable?
Do a network install. That should bring you up to date by downloading packages for the install as it goes.
Use KVM/QEMU instead of virtual box. I tend to use virtual machine manager
Okay, I will have to look into that, and then figure out how to get the data out of this one and into the new one.
Remember that the Debian desktop environment selection installs GNOME.
If you specifically want one of the others, unselect Debian desktop environment within tasksel - usually by toggling with spacebar -
and install one of the others.
Yes. I'm pretty happy with Xfce, for the most part. I like konqueror for some of the things that it can do that the other file managers don't. And I have no particular fondness for gnome...
On Saturday 21 December 2024 08:14:11 pm Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
On Saturday 21 December 2024 02:20:20 pm Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
Set the machine to boot in UEFI mode if this is available rather than
legacy MBR / both.
Why is this preferable?
?
It's a real PITA to switch which input this monitor is using, taking many button presses on buttons that I can't even see because they're under the front of the monitor.
On 12/26/24 11:35, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
On Saturday 21 December 2024 08:14:11 pm Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
On Saturday 21 December 2024 02:20:20 pm Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
Set the machine to boot in UEFI mode if this is available rather than legacy MBR / both.
Why is this preferable?
?
UEFI features I like:
1. UEFI firmware provides Secure Boot and the Debian Installer can
create a system with appropriately signed software (boot loader?
kernel?). This makes it harder for malware to infect the system and
can prevent corrupt software from trashing the system.
2. GPT puts two copies of the partition table on disk. If one gets
trashed, the system can still boot; making recovery easier.
3. GPT supports labels for partitions. This allows me to use
meaningful names when configuring and using partitions.
It's a real PITA to switch which input this monitor is using, Ā taking many button presses on buttons that I can't even see because they're under the front of the monitor.
So, you have two computers, two keyboards, and two mice, but one monitor with the computers connected to different inputs? Ā Have you considered getting a KVM switch?
On 12/27/24 8:19 AM, David Wright wrote:
On Thu 26 Dec 2024 at 14:30:38 (-0800), David Christensen wrote:
On 12/26/24 11:35, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:4.Ā GPT has no need for extended and logical partitions, and all
On Saturday 21 December 2024 08:14:11 pm Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
On Saturday 21 December 2024 02:20:20 pm Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:?
Set the machine to boot in UEFI mode if this is available ratherWhy is this preferable?
than
legacy MBR / both.
UEFI features I like:
1.Ā UEFI firmware provides Secure Boot and the Debian Installer can
create a system with appropriately signed software (boot loader?
kernel?).Ā This makes it harder for malware to infect the system and
can prevent corrupt software from trashing the system.
2.Ā GPT puts two copies of the partition table on disk.Ā If one gets
trashed, the system can still boot; making recovery easier.
3.Ā GPT supports labels for partitions.Ā This allows me to use
meaningful names when configuring and using partitions.
that troublesome CHS stuff.
Cheers,
David.
What about LVM?Ā Is it usable (or even useful) with UEFI?
Marc
Good question Marc. I'm searching for someone who knows how to combine
4 ea 4T SSD's into one volume for use with amanda, the lvm docs are
somewhat confusing, lacking the context that actually teaches.
Marc
Good question Marc. I'm searching for someone who knows how to combine 4
ea 4T SSD's into one volume for use with amanda, the lvm docs are
somewhat confusing, lacking the context that actually teaches.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
What about LVM?Ā Is it usable (or even useful) with UEFI?
On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 11:32:17PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:I have 5 of those 4T SSD's. figuring on using one for a holding disk. So
Hi Gene,Marc
Good question Marc. I'm searching for someone who knows how to combine 4 >>> ea 4T SSD's into one volume for use with amanda, the lvm docs are
somewhat confusing, lacking the context that actually teaches.
Five steps:
Ideally done when you do your reinstall :)
1. Decide whether you want RAID to provide some level of disk redundancy with LVM over the top. If so, and you've got 4 disks, maybe go for RAID5
12TB capacity and one spare disk or RAID 6 where you can afford to lose
two disks for 8TB capacity..
2. In the installer, use the RAID element to set up the disks as one md arraywhat installer? this is a pi clone but faster than a pi, install is
That will give you one md partition spanning the four disks.yes.
3. Then use the LVM element to set up LVM over the top of the md array you've just set up.
4. Use guided partitioning on the LVM array to set up one filesystem - ext4 probably.
5. Assign it a mount point - maybe /data or /amanda and mount it.Thanks Andy, Bookmarked FFR.
If you've got differently sized disks, then you can always set up LVM
across them in the way I've outlined above. If one disk fails, you lose the lot - but for unimportant data, it works. I have 7TB working that way next door providing my Debian mirror.
Hope this helps - all the very best, as ever,
Andy Cater
(amacater@debian.org).
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET..
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
On 12/31/24 12:56, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 11:32:17PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
Marc
Good question Marc. I'm searching for someone who knows how to combine 4
ea 4T SSD's into one volume for use with amanda, the lvm docs are somewhat confusing, lacking the context that actually teaches.
Hi Gene,
Five steps:
Ideally done when you do your reinstall :)
I have 5 of those 4T SSD's. figuring on using one for a holding disk. So it willl always be empty at the end of a run
what installer? this is a pi clone but faster than a pi, install is putting the .iso on a 64Gb microSD. And maybe moving it to the board mounted m2 for faster booting.
Thanks Andy, Bookmarked FFR.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 04:53:53PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:banana pi-m5. so far armbian noble has it covered. The only thing I
On 12/31/24 12:56, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:> Hi Gene,
On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 11:32:17PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
Marc
Good question Marc. I'm searching for someone who knows how to combine 4 >>>>> ea 4T SSD's into one volume for use with amanda, the lvm docs are
somewhat confusing, lacking the context that actually teaches.
So - RAID5 - 12TB for your Amanda database and backups. RAID6 / RAID10 - 8TBFive steps:I have 5 of those 4T SSD's. figuring on using one for a holding disk. So it >> willl always be empty at the end of a run
Ideally done when you do your reinstall :)
what installer? this is a pi clone but faster than a pi, install is putting >> the .iso on a 64Gb microSD. And maybe moving it to the board mounted m2 for >> faster booting.This is a Debian list - I'm talking about Debian here :)
The only thing Pi clones share with the Raspberry Pi is the word Pi.
Most of them promise a 40 pin compatible pinout but there is no guarantee
as to what other building blocks are there and you almost certainly won't
be able to run any Pi accessories anywhere else or vice-versa.
There is no guarantee that any clone will work with anything else.
_Which_ Pi clone?
If these are Banana Pi 5 and you want them supported *in Debian*, go andDebian-arm? What a joke. That is the most unpleasant place in the Debian
talk to the folks on IRC on #debian-arm or the mailing list. Ask them to
get some boards and work out what the diff is between the supplied kernel
and a Debian kernel. Ideally, you want the vendor to commit to a long-term support for the board. Banana Pi seem to change models very regularly - so good luck with Shenzhen SINOVOIP.
Install is putting an image - .img file onto the SD, booting it via u-boot
- and then running their installer to install onto the NVME.
How are you connecting your SSDs? Via USB3 or via good quality SATA leads
and high quality power supply?
If you want to do the RAID stuff for yourself, you'll first need to work out how to run mdadm and LVM needs lvresize and similar.
Same steps as I gave you, but you'll need to ask your vendor to provide
_all_ support not this list.
Hope this helps - all the very best, as ever,
Andy Cater
(amacater@debian.org).
Thanks Andy, Bookmarked FFR..
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET..
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. >>>> - Louis D. Brandeis
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2024 at 6:54 PM
From: "gene heskett" <gheskett@shentel.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon
If these are Banana Pi 5 and you want them supported *in Debian*, go and talk to the folks on IRC on #debian-arm or the mailing list. Ask them to get some boards and work out what the diff is between the supplied kernel and a Debian kernel. Ideally, you want the vendor to commit to a long-term support for the board. Banana Pi seem to change models very regularly - so good luck with Shenzhen SINOVOIP.Debian-arm? What a joke. That is the most unpleasant place in the Debian world. If it's not a genuine r-pi, Debian-arm has no tolerance for what
s/b perfectly on-topic posts. There's tons of "pi" stuff around that
isn't foundation src'd, but they don't want to hear about them. My
offers to send them free hardware or donate cash have all been rebuffed.
If you have any pull, fix that & advise me. Their rules for such
donations remove any anonymity, and that's the only way I'll donate.
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2025 at 9:28 AM
From: "Frank Guthausen" <fg.debian@shimps.de>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:58:25 +0100
pocket@homemail.com wrote:
debians wiki is woefully incomplete and
contains old out dated information which in most cases it just flat
out incorrect.
This happens when no individual person takes
responsibility for updating things. You could
be this person.
Try to get it corrected and you will/must be attacked.
Rubbish.
I did exactly this a couple weeks ago and registered a wiki account.
To do the latter, the procedure involved writing an additional email
to avoid spammer accounts. It worked within reasonable time - only a
few hours or even faster.
The questionable confusion was solved within the Debian community on
list and I transfered the solution to the wiki. No one complained, no
one attacked me for improving.
There is no need to spread urban legends invoking conspiracy
implicitely. There is no board of shadow Debian elders deciding
in the dark who is to be attacked. Please stay with the facts, at
least until the alternative facts' president is inaugurated.
--
kind regards
Frank
debians wiki is woefully incomplete and
contains old out dated information which in most cases it just flat
out incorrect.
Try to get it corrected and you will/must be attacked.
I was just attacked on this list for posting a systemd unit file that came from Archlinux.
It was the first response in the thread.
Where were you?
I have been banned from the wiki and this list by cater and the debian elders.
Again you don't know what you posting about.
Gene has been regulary attacked, again where were YOU?
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2025 at 10:37 AM
From: "Michael Stone" <mstone@debian.org>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon
On Wed, Jan 01, 2025 at 03:35:25PM +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
I was just attacked on this list for posting a systemd unit file that came from Archlinux.
It was the first response in the thread.
Where were you?
I have been banned from the wiki and this list by cater and the debian elders.
Again you don't know what you posting about.
Gene has been regulary attacked, again where were YOU?
You've been trolling with messages that add exactly zero value, Gene's
been causing his own problems and monopolizing list resources for years. There's no attacking, there's simply exhaustion and a failure to
understand why the two of you act the way that you do. And real
confusion about why people who have so many problems with debian
continue to hang out on this list instead of going off to something they
like better. The only major problem with this list is that new users who don't know the background and to ignore of the two of you might get
scared off by the deluge of junk they get as soon as they sign up.
You've been trolling with messages that add exactly zero value,ā¦
Thank you for proving my point, I knew I would not be disappointed.
Your proof positive that my point is well established.
google smarthost
Masked units don't hurt a thing, that is if you known [sic] what
your [sic] doing and know why you want or need to mask certain units.
I am using NFS and don't want or need NFS V3 as I only wand [sic] NFS V4.
I have a better strategy for passwords
I use my wifes underwear size
I'll say it the installer is broke!!!
I've had it install orca and company also.
The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of
packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum install.
Remove all the cuft took too long and the animosity from the debian folks was well over the top.
Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux.
Arch was way less trouble and I got what I wanted without removing a ton
of installed things I just didn't need.
I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the
dustbin of history soon.
Well not on your life, debian has thrown so much shade at me in 2 years that I won't waste any of my time.
And waste my time it would be because debian won't listen and just throw shade at any information I would give them anyway.
I don't need the non sense.
I don't need the hassle."
Returning to lurker mode.
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2025 at 11:51 AM
From: "Michael Stone" <mstone@debian.org>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon
On Wed, Jan 01, 2025 at 05:18:58PM +0100, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
Thank you for proving my point, I knew I would not be disappointed.
Your proof positive that my point is well established.
What point? The reactions you encounter are those that you've earned.
Some of the valuable content you've provided in just the past couple of weeks:
google smarthost
Quite the helpful answer for someone asking a straightforward question:
tell them to google.
Masked units don't hurt a thing, that is if you known [sic] what
your [sic] doing and know why you want or need to mask certain units.
Ok....so what are the reasons? What's your point? You seem to be
implying that other people don't know what they're doing, but it's not
clear what it is that you think you know.
I am using NFS and don't want or need NFS V3 as I only wand [sic] NFS V4.
Excellent non sequitor.
I have a better strategy for passwords
I use my wifes underwear size
That was an especially valuable addition to the conversation.
I'll say it the installer is broke!!!
I've had it install orca and company also.
The last install I did using the installer I had a great number of
packages that had to be removed as I wanted a somewhat minimum install.
Another rant, no details, no content, no real desire to fix anything or
learn anything or share anything. Many other people manage to install
minimal debian systems with less drama, there's simply not enough here
to understand why you cannot. Nor do you seem to actually care.
Remove all the cuft took too long and the animosity from the debian folks was well over the top.
Have you ever wondered why you, in particular, are recieving
"animosity"? Some large portion of which isn't from "debian folks", but
from other users fed up with your behavior?
Any way I don't use debian for any new installs any more having gone to Archlinux.
Arch was way less trouble and I got what I wanted without removing a ton
of installed things I just didn't need.
I have only three systems left running debian and they will be in the dustbin of history soon.
Ah, the tantalizing promise that you're going to go somewhere else and
stop complaining here, soon to be broken.
Well not on your life, debian has thrown so much shade at me in 2 years that I won't waste any of my time.
And waste my time it would be because debian won't listen and just throw shade at any information I would give them anyway.
I don't need the non sense.
I don't need the hassle."
And yet, still here...
Returning to lurker mode.
If only that were true.
Please don't feed the trolls.
Gene you are exactly correct, even this list is hostile.
debian is hostile against anything that is not debian.
There is no call for that, there is no sense for being like that.
For example a package built for a different distro will not be broken
on debian, it all works basically the same. Why does debian do that?
Why do the folks on this list like that. It just turns folks away.
In the great number of cases most look to Archlinux for setting up
and running packages. Why because the wiki is no nonsense and just
works in almost every case. debians wiki is woefully incomplete and
contains old out dated information which in most cases it just flat
out incorrect. Try to get it corrected and you will/must be attacked.
Instead of being hostile debian should work WITH folks instead of,
"Oh you are not using stock debian, phooey on you we won't help".
Want proof, look at linuxfromscratch, the first thing they do is ask
what does Arch do.
Let the attacks begin, I am waiting.......
On Wed, Jan 01, 2025 at 09:29:01AM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:
Please don't feed the trolls.
It's a tough line to walk. On the one hand, yeah, we don't want to
feed the trolls. But if the trolls keep going anyway with no sign they
will stop, we run the risk of implicitly supporting unchallenged
narratives. A person walking in fresh is told repeatedly that debian capriciously suppresses people just trying to help, and is hostile to questions, newcomers, whatever. Should they just believe that? If they
see post after post of (the same) people posting problems that nobody
can or will solve, do they feel encouraged to post their own
questions? The people who have been around just delete the noise on autopilot--which is certainly a useful coping mechanism--but where
does that leave new arrivals and what does that do to the basic
character of the list? The internet has yet to really come up with a
good answer to any of this.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:58:25 +0100
pocket@homemail.com wrote:
[...]
In fact I'm sure you've noticed that help is often offered to users of
other systems, but tentatively and with warnings that it may not work.
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2025 at 9:19 PM
From: "Max Nikulin" <manikulin@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon
On 01/01/2025 20:58, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
In the great number of cases most look to Archlinux for setting up and running packages.
Why because the wiki is no nonsense and just works in almost every case. debians wiki is woefully incomplete and contains old out dated
information which in most cases it just flat out incorrect.
Arch wiki is really great since it fills a lot of gaps in upstream docs.
However Arch would be dead if other sort of recipes were not up to date. Significant part of wisdom collected in Arch wiki is expressed as
package scripts in the case of Debian. Developers investing their time
into making application working out of the box instead of documenting
how to configure just installed package.
Try to get it corrected and you will/must be attacked.
My experience does not match yours.
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2025 at 10:29 PM
From: "Max Nikulin" <manikulin@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon
On 02/01/2025 09:36, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
From: "Max Nikulin"
On 01/01/2025 20:58, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
Try to get it corrected and you will/must be attacked.
My experience does not match yours.
Of course it doesn't, people here are not 100% against you
What wiki pages you tried to modify? I am curious if your edits are
still in history of changes.
On 01/01/2025 00:55, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 11:32:17PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:[...]
Good question Marc. I'm searching for someone who knows how to
combine 4
ea 4T SSD's into one volume for use with amanda, the lvm docs are
somewhat confusing, lacking the context that actually teaches.
2. In the installer, use the RAID element to set up the disks as one
md array
That will give you one md partition spanning theĀ four disks.
I suspect that Gene is just going to configure LVM on a running system
and it is completely unrelated to UEFI (so it is purely off-topic) and
to the installer.
The problem is that he can not use some search engine to find guidesSensible spelling of the utility's that do that would help that search
related to LVM. He believes that everything must be documented in man
pages, but he ignores any tool that may help to find locally installed
man pages.
.
On 1/1/25 21:57, Max Nikulin wrote:
On 01/01/2025 00:55, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
On Mon, Dec 30, 2024 at 11:32:17PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:[...]
Good question Marc. I'm searching for someone who knows how to
combine 4
ea 4T SSD's into one volume for use with amanda, the lvm docs are
somewhat confusing, lacking the context that actually teaches.
2. In the installer, use the RAID element to set up the disks as one
md array
That will give you one md partition spanning theĀ four disks.
I suspect that Gene is just going to configure LVM on a running system
and it is completely unrelated to UEFI (so it is purely off-topic) and
to the installer.
This, since I've not done this yet, is quit likely true.
The problem is that he can not use some search engine to find guides related to LVM. He believes that everything must be documented in man pages, but he ignores any tool that may help to find locally installedSensible spelling of the utility's that do that would help that search effort considerably. I note that I've rx'd detailed help assuming I am
man pages.
using the installer, but no one has offered to teach me exactly what to
type into a bash shell on a system that is booted to a working cli. I
want to make a raid10 of nearly 8T out a 4 of these 4T drives.Ā Do I
even need LVM for a raid10 out of 4, 4T drives?.
.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
The hardware I use has nothing non-std in the field I work in. But 99% of
you folks haven't the foggiest idea of what we get the dirt under our fingernails from, or how we "get it done".
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2025 at 10:38 AM
From: "Max Nikulin" <manikulin@gmail.com>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: new computer arriving soon
On 02/01/2025 10:41, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
Lookup Gene and networkmanager,
Do you really believe it is a precise enough reference? My impression is
that despite NetworkManager can easily handle his cases, he often
demonstrate unmotivated aggression against NetworkManager developers.
The reasons are unclear to me. Perhaps because armbian developers intentionally broke a way to configure network without NetworkManager
while the same approach works fine on Debian.
LVM was introduced to allow extending storage by adding extra physical drives. Storage space is allocated as virtualised storage, i.e. Logical Volumes.
On Thu, Jan 02, 2025 at 06:29:08PM +1100, George at Clug wrote:
LVM was introduced to allow extending storage by adding extra physical drives. Storage space is allocated as virtualised storage, i.e. Logical Volumes.
Yes and no. LVM was introduced to allow flexibility in how you assign
space. It lets you add drives, or migrate between drives, or resize a
volume, or make some volumes raid and some volumes not, all on the fly.
If you use something like btrfs or zfs, then you probably don't want to
add an LVM layer as it just complicates things in a redundant fashion.
If you have a set number of drives and partition the whole thing up as a single volume, then LVM may not be worth the effort. If you have a
relatively dynamic environment, LVM is a big timesaver.
It can be somewhat complicated, and there are some gotchas in
configuring things like raid, so for someone trying to put together an ordinary desktop that would be happy with one big partition and isn't
likely to do an upgrade that isn't a full replacement, I probably
wouldn't bother.
I am unsure if grub images signed for Secure Boot include LVM drivers
or /boot should be outside of LVM as well.
I once used/tested with RAID 6 and was amazed how long it took to rebuild a 3TB swapped hard drive (about 8 hours, if I recall).
On Thu, Jan 02, 2025 at 06:29:08PM +1100, George at Clug wrote:
LVM was introduced to allow extending storage by adding extra physical drives. Storage space is allocated as virtualised storage, i.e. Logical Volumes.
Yes and no. LVM was introduced to allow flexibility in how you assign
space. It lets you add drives, or migrate between drives, or resize a volume, or make some volumes raid and some volumes not, all on the fly.
If you use something like btrfs or zfs, then you probably don't want to
add an LVM layer as it just complicates things in a redundant fashion.
If you have a set number of drives and partition the whole thing up as a single volume, then LVM may not be worth the effort. If you have a relatively dynamic environment, LVM is a big timesaver.
It can be somewhat complicated, and there are some gotchas in
configuring things like raid, so for someone trying to put together an ordinary desktop that would be happy with one big partition and isn't
likely to do an upgrade that isn't a full replacement, I probably
wouldn't bother.
i managed a half dozen hp9000 servers with 200 2gb drives
lvm came in pretty handy :)
On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, Michael Stone wrote:
On Thu, Jan 02, 2025 at 06:29:08PM +1100, George at Clug wrote:
LVM was introduced to allow extending storage by adding extra physical drives. Storage space is allocated as virtualised storage, i.e. Logical Volumes.
Yes and no. LVM was introduced to allow flexibility in how you assign space. It lets you add drives, or migrate between drives, or resize a volume, or make some volumes raid and some volumes not, all on the fly.
If you use something like btrfs or zfs, then you probably don't want to
add an LVM layer as it just complicates things in a redundant fashion.
If you have a set number of drives and partition the whole thing up as a single volume, then LVM may not be worth the effort. If you have a relatively dynamic environment, LVM is a big timesaver.
It can be somewhat complicated, and there are some gotchas in
configuring things like raid, so for someone trying to put together an ordinary desktop that would be happy with one big partition and isn't likely to do an upgrade that isn't a full replacement, I probably
wouldn't bother.
i managed a half dozen hp9000 servers with 200 2gb drives
lvm came in pretty handy :)
On Friday, 03-01-2025 at 09:46 fxkl47bf@protonmail.com wrote:
i managed a half dozen hp9000 servers with 200 2gb drives
lvm came in pretty handy :)
Was fibre for networking part of that build? (I am guessing RAID was also used)
What was the data throughput like?
On Thu, Jan 02, 2025 at 06:29:08PM +1100, George at Clug wrote:
I once used/tested with RAID 6 and was amazed how long it took to rebuild a 3TB swapped hard drive (about 8 hours, if I recall).
Spinning disks are slow; 8 hours for 3TB is about 100MB/s and 8h is
about how much time I'd expect it to take to write a commodity disk that size. It becomes really painful on a 24TB drive (8 times as large, 8
times as long;
a fast spinning disk might be able to cut that down to a
full day). If you want significant speed increases you need an nvme drive--but beware: there's a default rate-limit to minimize impact to
other work. (see /proc/sys/dev/raid/speed_limit_max, probably 200MB/s,
and you'd want to set it much higher to fully utilize nvme storage.)
On Friday, 03-01-2025 at 09:57 Michael Stone wrote:
Spinning disks are slow; 8 hours for 3TB is about 100MB/s and 8h is
about how much time I'd expect it to take to write a commodity disk that size. It becomes really painful on a 24TB drive (8 times as large, 8
times as long;
24TB drive - WOW - just thinking about that hurts.
On Fri, Jan 03, 2025 at 09:59:20AM +1100, George at Clug wrote:
On Friday, 03-01-2025 at 09:46 fxkl47bf@protonmail.com wrote:
i managed a half dozen hp9000 servers with 200 2gb drives
lvm came in pretty handy :)
I have no good memories of hpux servers. :-D But yes, the linux LVM was inspired by HP/UX's. The best integration of volume management was
probably AIX, where (for example) the package manager would check
whether enough space was available on relevant partitions and ask if you wanted to grow them if there was not. I think (but I'm not certain) it
could offer to shrink other volumes to make that possible. Don't take
that as a recommendation to use AIX. :-D :-D
Was fibre for networking part of that build? (I am guessing RAID was also used)
If there was fiber, it was probably FDDI or maybe ATM (155Mbit).
10BASE-F ethernet was a thing, but only made long runs possible rather
than making things particularly fast.
What was the data throughput like?
Maybe as good as your phone...this was probably 30 years ago or more.
On 2025-01-01 21:46, gene heskett wrote:
On 1/1/25 13:48, Joe wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:58:25 +0100
pocket@homemail.com wrote:
[...]
In fact I'm sure you've noticed that help is often offered to users of
other systems, but tentatively and with warnings that it may not work.
"Gene is a special case in that he uses non-standard hardware to do
things that the rest of us don't do, working in ways that we don't
work. We do our best, but that's often not good enough".
I've no idea what gene is talking about but his questions indicate
somebody who wants to be in control of his own operating system.
Isn't that what this stuff is all about?
mick
.
I've no idea what gene is talking about but his questions indicate somebody who wants to be in control of his own operating system.
Maybe as good as your phone...this was probably 30 years ago or more.
LOL - I do recall using 1200 and 2400 baud modems. Ā When 9600 baud modems came out, it was like WOW. Ā (ouch the memory cells hurt)
And of course people would pick up the phone while you were connected...
On 2025-01-03 02:59, gene heskett wrote:
On 1/2/25 21:20, mick.crane wrote:
On 2025-01-01 21:46, gene heskett wrote:Absolutely Mick.Ā Don't adjust your antenna, the pix is perfect.
On 1/1/25 13:48, Joe wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 14:58:25 +0100
pocket@homemail.com wrote:
[...]
In fact I'm sure you've noticed that help is often offered to
users of
other systems, but tentatively and with warnings that it may not
work.
"Gene is a special case in that he uses non-standard hardware to do
things that the rest of us don't do, working in ways that we don't
work. We do our best, but that's often not good enough".
I've no idea what gene is talking about but his questions indicate
somebody who wants to be in control of his own operating system.
Isn't that what this stuff is all about?
mick
I know that Torvalds discovered that mimix had been released for free, grabbed it, and started writing a kernel and gave it away with no encumbrances and that's what started this whole thing off.
Really it shouldn't matter what the hardware is if there's a human
readable system to get a computer to do what you want.
Myself I have my suspicions that all the nuances and complications may
have been introduced by the control freaks who do not want us free to
do our own thing.
mick
On 02/01/2025 23:05, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2025 at 10:38 AM "Max Nikulin"
On 02/01/2025 10:41, pocket@homemail.com wrote:
Lookup Gene and networkmanager,
Do you really believe it is a precise enough reference? My
impression is
that despite NetworkManager can easily handle his cases, he often
demonstrate unmotivated aggression against NetworkManager developers.
The reasons are unclear to me. Perhaps because armbian developers
intentionally broke a way to configure network without NetworkManager
while the same approach works fine on Debian.
It was debian and your talking to the one that solved his issue.
I mean some Chinese 3d printer:
gene heskett. Re: time question, as in ntp? Fri, 1 Dec 2023 05:42:35
-0500. <https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/c10ab2f9-12d5-4f40-9da4-509d62906213@shentel.net>
+1000, They could start by using a consistent name for nm from releaseBTW networkmanager as built in debain leaves a lot to be desired just
like networking on debian leaves a lot to be desired.
I faced once a Debian-specific issue (it had been reported already).That is always a possibility.
My impression is that most limitation and bugs are due to upstream
sources. For me NetworkManager is not a source of regular annoyance.
What I have found that distro like armbian fixes a lot of things that
are just flat broken in debian-arm.
Am I wrong that some fixes can not be included into upstream projects
or into Debian due to licensing issues?
or ubuntu...Waiting to be attacked over this posting
What is the point in attempts to insult developers (posting to a user
mailing list)? Doesn't Armbian heavily rely on Debian?
After all, it is an important skill to move forward despite some
degree of tension and disagreement. Try to be polite and constructive
in communications.
Heh. I remember a 300 baud modem where you had to dial the number on a phone and then flip the switch on the modem when the other end answered. Whether you selected the answer or originate mode was a crap shoot, there were a lot of c64-based BBSs inthe area at that time, and they were set up either way. And of course people would pick up the phone while you were connected...
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