As I'm over 80 and a computer *user* since introduction via Hollerith
cards and line-printers in 60's (q.v. CORC & CUPL - BASIC didn't exist)
and later using an Acoustic coupler with an RBBS, I'm not a newbie per se.

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI took
up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to
several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight
forward.

Due to vision and perception issues, I avoid sites over using graphics
or requiring JavaScript. For support I look for USENET groups &/or
mailing lists (not having found _any_ usable WEB based fora).

I didn't find anything at www.videolan.org (and linked pages).
Searching for alternative support channels, I went to
https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc-bin/vlc.1.en.html
and
https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc
without any luck.

QUESTIONS
1. Suggested alternative application with newbie friendly docs?
[VLC has attractive features but ...]
2. Is there a mailing list or USENET group where application specific
newbie questions would be appropriate?

TIA

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On 1/11/25 05:58, Richard Owlett wrote:

As I'm over 80 and a computer *user* since introduction via Hollerith
cards and line-printers in 60's (q.v. CORC & CUPL - BASIC didn't exist)
and later using an Acoustic coupler with an RBBS, I'm not a newbie per se.

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI took
up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to
several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight forward.

Due to vision and perception issues, I avoid sites over using graphics
or requiring JavaScript. For support I look for USENET groups &/or
mailing lists (not having found _any_ usable WEB based fora).

I didn't find anything at www.videolan.org (and linked pages).
Searching for alternative support channels, I went to
   https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc-bin/vlc.1.en.html
and
   https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc
without any luck.

QUESTIONS
1. Suggested alternative application with newbie friendly docs?
   [VLC has attractive features but ...]
2. Is there a mailing list or USENET group where application specific
   newbie questions would be appropriate?

TIA

Hi,
mpg123 is a command line program that plays mp3s.
Best regards,
Fred

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Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:

As I'm over 80 and a computer *user* since introduction via Hollerith
cards and line-printers in 60's (q.v. CORC & CUPL - BASIC didn't
exist) and later using an Acoustic coupler with an RBBS, I'm not a
newbie per se.

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI
took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred
to several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most
straight forward.

Due to vision and perception issues, I avoid sites over using
graphics or requiring JavaScript. For support I look for USENET
groups &/or mailing lists (not having found _any_ usable WEB based
fora).

I didn't find anything at www.videolan.org (and linked pages).
Searching for alternative support channels, I went to
https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc-bin/vlc.1.en.html
and
https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc
without any luck.

QUESTIONS
1. Suggested alternative application with newbie friendly docs?
[VLC has attractive features but ...]
2. Is there a mailing list or USENET group where application specific
newbie questions would be appropriate?

TIA

I'm surprised you didn't find anything at the videolan site, since
that seems to work tolerably well without javascript. And the
application itself has a Help menu that can bring up various useful
documents. The man page suggests using the program's help from the
command line. There is a mailing list as listed at https://www.videolan.org/support/lists.html Have you tried all those
sources?

You don't say what particular problems you are encountering so it's
difficult to be of more help.

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On Sat, Jan 11, 2025 at 07:01:23 -0700, Fred wrote:

On 1/11/25 05:58, Richard Owlett wrote:

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI took
up a very minimal amount of screen real estate.

mpg123 is a command line program that plays mp3s.

You can also play them with mpv, or mplayer, if you're looking for
something that does more than just MP3. Both of these can be run from
the command line.

Some MP3 files may have an album cover image (or similar) embedded inside
them, and mpv may show this when playing the song. If that's not wanted, there's an option to disable that:

hobbit:/stuff/music/Tool/Fear$ mpv 01\ -\ Fear\ Inoculum.mp3
(+) Video --vid=1 [P] (mjpeg 600x600 1.000fps)
Video --vid=2 [P] 'Cover.jpg' (mjpeg 600x600 1.000fps) (external)
(+) Audio --aid=1 (mp3 2ch 44100Hz)
[...]
Displaying cover art. Use --no-audio-display to prevent this.
[...]

I've had great results with mpv. It plays everything I've given it.
Granted, my needs are not terribly exotic.

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On 1/11/25 07:58, Richard Owlett wrote:

As I'm over 80 and a computer *user* since introduction via Hollerith
cards and line-printers in 60's (q.v. CORC & CUPL - BASIC didn't
exist) and later using an Acoustic coupler with an RBBS, I'm not a
newbie per se.

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI
took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight forward.

Due to vision and perception issues, I avoid sites over using graphics
or requiring JavaScript. For support I look for USENET groups &/or
mailing lists (not having found _any_ usable WEB based fora).

I didn't find anything at www.videolan.org (and linked pages).
Searching for alternative support channels, I went to
   https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc-bin/vlc.1.en.html
and
   https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc
without any luck.

QUESTIONS
1. Suggested alternative application with newbie friendly docs?
   [VLC has attractive features but ...]
2. Is there a mailing list or USENET group where application specific
   newbie questions would be appropriate?

TIA

I would suggest moc (Music On Console). It's a terminal app, but it's
very easy to operate. Simple single character commands, but no real
menus. It's not a GUI per se, but uses ncurses. If you can deal with the terminal visually, moc should work for you.

Paul


--
Paul M. Foster
Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com
Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com
Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster

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On 1/11/25 09:01, Fred wrote:

On 1/11/25 05:58, Richard Owlett wrote:

I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI took up
a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to several
overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight forward.

Hi,
mpg123 is a command line program that plays mp3s.

So is mplayer. As far as graphical programs, I think gmplayer has a fairly small footprint, but I might have used it once. clementine is not small,
but basic functions are available from its taskbar icon.

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As I am 95 and my first computer was a Royal Mcbee using punched paper
tape. VLC is ok but mostly I use mpv from a terminal

Tom

On 1/11/25 07:58, Richard Owlett wrote:

As I'm over 80 and a computer *user* since introduction via Hollerith
cards and line-printers in 60's (q.v. CORC & CUPL - BASIC didn't
exist) and later using an Acoustic coupler with an RBBS, I'm not a
newbie per se.

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI
took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight forward.

Due to vision and perception issues, I avoid sites over using graphics
or requiring JavaScript. For support I look for USENET groups &/or
mailing lists (not having found _any_ usable WEB based fora).

I didn't find anything at www.videolan.org (and linked pages).
Searching for alternative support channels, I went to
   https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc-bin/vlc.1.en.html
and
   https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/vlc
without any luck.

QUESTIONS
1. Suggested alternative application with newbie friendly docs?
   [VLC has attractive features but ...]
2. Is there a mailing list or USENET group where application specific
   newbie questions would be appropriate?

TIA

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 1/11/25 8:01 AM, Fred wrote:

On 1/11/25 05:58, Richard Owlett wrote:

*SNIP*

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI
took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to
several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight
forward.*SNIP*

Hi,
mpg123 is a command line program that plays mp3s.

But, as indicated above, I'm explicitly looking for a GUI <grin>.
VLC includes desired features and has small visual footprint.
I have problems with its documentation and their support channel.

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On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 04:05:01 -0600
Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:

On 1/11/25 8:01 AM, Fred wrote:

On 1/11/25 05:58, Richard Owlett wrote:

*SNIP*

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI
took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was
referred to several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC
as most straight forward.*SNIP*

Hi,
mpg123 is a command line program that plays mp3s.

But, as indicated above, I'm explicitly looking for a GUI <grin>.
VLC includes desired features and has small visual footprint.
I have problems with its documentation and their support channel.

It has been assumed that you can use a terminal and that such usage
would minimise the screen real estate considerably. What is it that you
need to look at all the time, which would preclude opening the GUI
window on another desktop, or simply minimising the window?

Is the documentation and support information here insufficient for your
needs? You haven't explained why your particular requirement is so
unusual.

https://www.videolan.org/support/

There are various user forums where you can ask your specific question,
and a means of reporting bugs.

Bear in mind that this is open source software provided free of
charge and you are not likely to find a telephone helpline or
visiting consultant available.

--
Joe

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On 1/11/25 9:00 AM, Paul M. Foster wrote:

On 1/11/25 07:58, Richard Owlett wrote:

*SNIP*

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI
took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate.*SNIP*

I would suggest moc (Music On Console). It's a terminal app, but it's
very easy to operate. Simple single character commands, but no real
menus. It's not a GUI per se, but uses ncurses. If you can deal with the terminal visually, moc should work for you.

The first paragraph of its man-page emphasizes that it's *full screen*.
Project pages focus of playing multiple songs in one session. I'm
focused on moving around in a single lecture.

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On 1/11/25 8:06 AM, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:

Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:

*SNIP*

Due to vision and perception issues, I avoid sites over using
graphics or requiring JavaScript. For support I look for USENET
groups &/or mailing lists (not having found _any_ usable WEB based
fora).

I didn't find anything at www.videolan.org (and linked pages).

*SNIP*

I'm surprised you didn't find anything at the videolan site, since

The use of the word "anything" was a poor choice.
I was frustrated by how the documentation was "organized"(sic).

that seems to work tolerably well without javascript.

It does. I was indicating that a I surf with JavaScript disabled.
When enabled on a case-by-case basis it can be useful.

And the
application itself has a Help menu that can bring up various useful documents.

Those links are aimed at casual/first-time user.
A more content oriented link is
https://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Documentation/

There is a mailing list as listed at
https://www.videolan.org/support/lists.html Have you tried all those
sources?

Go to the history page and note that the general list was last used in
2015. Current support is via WEB fora at https://forum.videolan.org/ .

You don't say what particular problems you are encountering so it's
difficult to be of more help.

TRUE ;}
As I said in my original post, that though I've been a computer user for
more than a half-century, I've had no contact with media players.

I, and likely Mr. Cater for the Debian Community Team, would consider
newbie oriented _application_ questions to be OT on a *OS* support list.

I asked for referral to a suitable USENET group or mailing list because
they usually have searchable history files. Useful for a newbie's education.

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On 1/11/25 10:24 AM, eben@gmx.us wrote:

On 1/11/25 09:01, Fred wrote:

On 1/11/25 05:58, Richard Owlett wrote:

I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI took up
a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to several
overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight forward.

Hi,
mpg123 is a command line program that plays mp3s.

So is mplayer. As far as graphical programs, I think gmplayer has a fairly small footprint, but I might have used it once.

It's not in Debian repository.
I had visited its homepage in my initial search. It is a "movie player"
and is one of the applications I labeled as overpowered and complex.

clementine is not small,
but basic functions are available from its taskbar icon.

Too focused on playing multiple songs.

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Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:

On 1/11/25 8:06 AM, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:

Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> wrote:

*SNIP*

Due to vision and perception issues, I avoid sites over using
graphics or requiring JavaScript. For support I look for USENET
groups &/or mailing lists (not having found _any_ usable WEB based
fora).

I didn't find anything at www.videolan.org (and linked pages).

*SNIP*

I'm surprised you didn't find anything at the videolan site, since

The use of the word "anything" was a poor choice.
I was frustrated by how the documentation was "organized"(sic).

I'm not quite sure why the word organized is in quotes, so I have no
idea why you were frustrated.

that seems to work tolerably well without javascript.

It does. I was indicating that a I surf with JavaScript disabled.
When enabled on a case-by-case basis it can be useful.

And the
application itself has a Help menu that can bring up various useful documents.

Those links are aimed at casual/first-time user.
A more content oriented link is
https://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Documentation/

There is a mailing list as listed at
https://www.videolan.org/support/lists.html Have you tried all those sources?

Go to the history page and note that the general list was last used
in 2015. Current support is via WEB fora at
https://forum.videolan.org/ .

Ah I didn't go any further than wondering why you had complained about
its absence. I'm not as motivated as you.

You don't say what particular problems you are encountering so it's difficult to be of more help.

TRUE ;}
As I said in my original post, that though I've been a computer user
for more than a half-century, I've had no contact with media players.

I, and likely Mr. Cater for the Debian Community Team, would consider
newbie oriented _application_ questions to be OT on a *OS* support
list.

I think as long as you're using a debian-packaged application on a
debian system you're unlikely to get into too much trouble. Why not try
asking about whatever your specific problem of the moment is?

I asked for referral to a suitable USENET group or mailing list
because they usually have searchable history files. Useful for a
newbie's education.

If you consider yourself a newbie, then I'm puzzled as to why you find
the links in the help to be unhelpful, if they are as you say aimed at
a first-time user?

But in any case the forum seems to have a complete archive, which
functions in much the same way as an email archive and can be used in a
similar way. So seems to satisfy your requirement.

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On Sat 11 Jan 2025 at 06:58:04 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote:
[ … ]

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI
took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight forward.

I would have thought that if screen real estate is a real criterion,
it would be difficult to beat audacious. In its winamp skin, it runs
here in a window about 275x112 pixels when displaying all its controls (play/skip etc motion controls, time, file name/parameters, equaliser, volume/balance, etc), and as few as about 275x12 when reduced to just
the motion controls. You can also iconify it, which gives it a
marginal size of zero if there's a space in your icon grid.

Your criticism that the timing was too coarse was answered (±1sec
is better than your "point x minutes into a file").

So what's the real problem?

2. Is there a mailing list or USENET group where application specific
newbie questions would be appropriate?

If a Debian application doesn't work, then questions are on topic
here. If it works, then the man page, or my previous post¹, should
be enough for playing your dozen lectures. If you've lived a life
sheltered enough for ⏴ ⏵ ⏸ ⏹ to mystify you, then you can run
audacious with keystrokes. It seems perfect for satisfying your
"focused on moving around in a single lecture".

Beyond that, you toss out thoughts like:

Then I started speculating about taking notes tied to specific times.
Can audacious do that? Is there a media player with that orientation?
What should I be reading?

later qualified with:

It was more of a "I wonder if..." question than a specific "How do I.."

I don't think you're serious about wanting to write some sort of
multimedia application combining editing and presenting text and
audio clips, so I think it's safe to ignore these asides.

You say you're looking for appropriate support. What are you trying
to get out of the documentation that requires it to be organised
in some particular way? I'll hazard that most people use these players
with barely a glance at any documentation. (Those criticising it could
file a bug or wishlist, to be passed upstream if appropriate.)

On Sun 12 Jan 2025 at 05:58:56 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote:

On 1/11/25 10:24 AM, eben wrote:

[ … ]

So is mplayer. As far as graphical programs, I think gmplayer has a fairly small footprint, but I might have used it once.

It's not in Debian repository.

Yes it is: mplayer-gui. Playing mp3s is usual for "movie players".

¹ https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/12/msg00409.html

Cheers,
David.

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Paul M. Foster wrote:

I would suggest moc (Music On Console). It's a terminal app, but it's very easy to operate. Simple single character commands, but no real menus. It's not a GUI per se, but uses ncurses. If you can deal with the terminal visually, moc should work for you.

I use moc regularly. It's great at what I want: play all the
music files in a directory, then stop, while allowing me to
pause, skip, or start over.

It does other things too, but it excels at that.

It has a local client-server arrangement, so the server part
(started automatically when you start mocp) runs in the
background and the client can go away and come back to issue
specific commands. That includes one-off commands, so it's easy
to integrate into scripts or GUIs.

-dsr-

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On 1/12/25 1:05 PM, David Wright wrote:

On Sat 11 Jan 2025 at 06:58:04 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote:
[ … ]

However I'm making practical use of mp3 files for the first time
(currently a dozen lectures). I looked for an mp3 player whose GUI
took up a very minimal amount of screen real estate. I was referred to
several overpowered complex candidates and chose VLC as most straight
forward. >

I would have thought that if screen real estate is a real criterion,
it would be difficult to beat audacious.

I had tried audacious. A thread[1] complaining of its documentation
related issues referred me to VLC[2] which I found to have its own
issues. That resulted in me asking for link to "media" related USENET
groups or mailing lists[3]. As my problems/questions/etc tend to focus
on application specific issues which are definitely *NOT* OS specific, I consider them "Off Topic" for this list.

[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/12/msg00401.html
[2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2024/12/msg00411.html
[3] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2025/01/msg00230.html

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