Gregory Forster wrote:

Hi, I've been using Debian for about 3 months, still a newbie. I'm trying to get totally off of Windows.One program I'm not sure about is Zoom.If you go to their web site, they detect you're using Linux and ask which distro
you're using.  I'm a little apprehensive about downloading from a vendor web site. Is there anyone here that's familiar  with Zoom on Debian?

Yes. If you use the web browser to go to a Zoom meeting URL and ignore
the "please install our spyware", it will eventually have a little link
to "join this meeting from the browser".

And that works well in Firefox and Chromium.

-dsr-

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I've had to use Zoom (and others) since the pandemic, on Debian based
systems. For zoom, I usually connect through the browser (there's
usually a not emphasised link somewhere on the zoom web page) and it
works quite well typically.

I have used the application but found it worked less well.

--
Eric S Fraga via gnus (Emacs 31.0.50 2025-01-06) on Debian 12.8

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On 01/29, Gregory Forster wrote:

Hi, I've been using Debian for about 3 months, still a newbie. I'm trying to get totally off of Windows.One program I'm not sure about is Zoom.If you go to their web site, they detect you're using Linux and ask which distro
you're using.  I'm a little apprehensive about downloading from a vendor web site. Is there anyone here that's familiar  with Zoom on Debian?

--
-- Greg

I started using the Zoom application on Debian systems at the
beginning of the pandemic, as many people did. I used it daily from
that time until now. I have had no problems with it and it did not
affect those computers in any way so I believe that it is totally safe
to install it and use it. The Linux and MacOS versions of Zoom often
lag behind the Windows version in terms of functionality but they are
very useable. In particular, the Windows version seems to have a bit
more audio configuration capability than the Linux/MacOS versions but
all versions of Zoom work pretty well in my experience.

I prefer to use actual applications running natively on the computer
than using browser-based apps, and never used Zoom in a browser so I
can't speak to the difference between the Zoom application vs. the
browser application. But you are in no danger installing Zoom on
Debian Linux systems.

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On 29/01/2025 16:33, Steve Witt wrote:

On 01/29, Gregory Forster wrote:

Hi, I've been using Debian for about 3 months, still a newbie. I'm trying to >> get totally off of Windows.One program I'm not sure about is Zoom.If you go >> to their web site, they detect you're using Linux and ask which distro
you're using.  I'm a little apprehensive about downloading from a vendor web
site. Is there anyone here that's familiar  with Zoom on Debian?

--
-- Greg

I started using the Zoom application on Debian systems at the
beginning of the pandemic, as many people did. I used it daily from
that time until now. I have had no problems with it and it did not
affect those computers in any way so I believe that it is totally safe
to install it and use it. The Linux and MacOS versions of Zoom often
lag behind the Windows version in terms of functionality but they are
very useable. In particular, the Windows version seems to have a bit
more audio configuration capability than the Linux/MacOS versions but
all versions of Zoom work pretty well in my experience.

I prefer to use actual applications running natively on the computer
than using browser-based apps, and never used Zoom in a browser so I
can't speak to the difference between the Zoom application vs. the
browser application. But you are in no danger installing Zoom on
Debian Linux systems.

Same here. I would add that the Linux version is getting better.

Happy zooming,
Jerome

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On 29/1/25 21:39, Gregory Forster wrote:

Hi, I've been using Debian for about 3 months, still a newbie. I'm
trying to get totally off of Windows.One program I'm not sure about is Zoom.If you go to their web site, they detect you're using Linux and ask which distro you're using.  I'm a little apprehensive about downloading
from a vendor web site. Is there anyone here that's familiar  with Zoom
on Debian?

I believe that zoom has previously been discussed on this list (if you
can search the list archive, you should be able to find previous
discussions of it), and, I understand that jitsi is (or was) regarded as
less sinister and ominous than zoom.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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Steve Witt wrote:
[...]

I have had no problems with it and it did not
affect those computers in any way so I believe that it is totally safe
to install it and use it.

[...]

No, isn't totally safe on Linux, for instance see:
https://cybersecuritynews.com/zoom-app-vulnerability/

Note that the Linux version was also affected.

And there were more security incidents for Zoom with the Linux version in the past, like:
https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=2023-39208


Best regards,
Klaus.
--
Klaus Singvogel
GnuPG-Key-ID: 1024R/5068792D 1994-06-27

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On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 12:28:55PM -0800, Donald MacDougall wrote:

I've been using Zoom from the beginning of the Corona virus epidemic [...] and haven't had any trouble that I think could be related to Zoom [...]

Thanks for your report. Prompted by this thread I went to the Wikipedia.

After having read that, I'll try not to use Zoom (and to convince others
to do likewise) as far as I can.

Cheers
--
t

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On 30/1/25 17:44, D MacDougall wrote:

On 1/29/25 21:20, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 12:28:55PM -0800, Donald MacDougall wrote:

I've been using Zoom from the beginning of the Corona virus epidemic
[...]
and haven't had any trouble that I think could be related to Zoom [...]

Thanks for your report. Prompted by this thread I went to the Wikipedia.

After having read that, I'll try not to use Zoom (and to convince others
to do likewise) as far as I can.

Cheers

Just now I read the article in Wikipedia and realized that I had read it before several years ago.  There were a considerable number of security issues back in 2020.  I haven't spent the time to go through them all in detail.  My university was involved in the early development of Zoom for
use in teaching university classes. I was not personally involved in
this.  From those who were, I understood that the company was very responsive to requests for features that were needed to make it useful
for the university.  This was all going on before the pandemic started
and the use of Zoom exploded overnight.  I was impressed with how fast
they were able to scale up.   They were there at the right time.  I
think many of the problems resulted from this unexpected growth.  It was tested in the fire, so to speak.  The security reports in Wikipedia were
all from 2020 or earlier, and nothing seems to have been added since.
Perhaps there are but I didn't see anything and haven't heard of
anything, so,  optimistically I've been thinking that the problems have
been mostly ironed out.

From only the Wikipedia report and no further reading it's not clear to
me whether using a web browser to attend a zoom meeting would be any
safer than using the native application and I'm not doing international diplomatic negotiations anyway.  All I can say is that it's been working flawlessly for me for 4 or 5 years and has been improving quite a bit as
time goes by.  If your need is to attend Zoom meetings, you can't just
use Jitsi instead.  And I have always wondered, if Jitsi or any other
app were used as much by as many people as Zoom has been, how many
security flaws would be found in them.  The Wikipedia article on Jitsi
says that due to it's hosting on AWS Jitsi is not GDPR compliant.  Do
you or anyone have alternative that can be said with confidence to be
better?

Don MacDougall

As I have previously said, the issue of zoom was previously discussed on
this list, and, people interested in considering zoom, should have
searched the list archive, and, found previous discussions relating to zoom.

One report that was previously cited in previous discussions of zoom on
this list, that should have been read by people recommending zoom, is
the report at https://www.theregister.com/2023/0/15/software_freedom_conservancy_zoom/

But, if you want to record what goes on in the bathrooms of your houses,
and, the sex lives and nude imagery of your wives and daughters, and,
broadcast them on the World Wide web, then, sure, go ahead and use zoom,
to your hearts content. Such is the nature of zoom, like the pedo guy's
cars, that have been reported to have cameras specially placed in them,
to record and transmit back to the car manufacturer's headquarters, such material as upskirt videos and photographs, for the pleasure of the
world's richest pervert.

Who needs or wants privacy and security, anyway?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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D MacDougall wrote:

From only the Wikipedia report and no further reading it's not clear to me whether using a web browser to attend a zoom meeting would be any safer than using the native application and I'm not doing international diplomatic negotiations anyway.  All I can say is that it's been working flawlessly for me for 4 or 5 years and has been improving quite a bit as time goes by.  If your need is to attend Zoom meetings, you can't just use Jitsi instead.  And I have always wondered, if Jitsi or any other app were used as much by as many people as Zoom has been, how many security flaws would be found in them.  The Wikipedia article on Jitsi says that due to it's hosting on AWS Jitsi is not GDPR compliant.  Do you or anyone have alternative that can be said with confidence to be better?

Yes; I host jitsi myself on Debian servers. Works nicely.
Getting the config right probably took an hour or two.

-dsr-

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On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 01:44:28 -0800
D MacDougall <dmacdoug@usc.edu> wrote:

The Wikipedia article on Jitsi
says that due to it's hosting on AWS Jitsi is not GDPR compliant.  Do
you or anyone have alternative that can be said with confidence to be better?

Jami is package in Debian and does not use a central server at all. I
haven't used it, so cannot say that it works any better or worse than
Jitsi.

--
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 01:11 Bret Busby wrote:

On 30/1/25 17:44, D MacDougall wrote:

On 1/29/25 21:20, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 12:28:55PM -0800, Donald MacDougall wrote:

I've been using Zoom from the beginning of the Corona virus epidemic
[...]
and haven't had any trouble that I think could be related to Zoom [...] >> Thanks for your report. Prompted by this thread I went to the Wikipedia. >>

After having read that, I'll try not to use Zoom (and to convince others >> to do likewise) as far as I can.

Cheers

Just now I read the article in Wikipedia and realized that I had read it before several years ago.  There were a considerable number of security issues back in 2020.  I haven't spent the time to go through them all in detail.  My university was involved in the early development of Zoom for use in teaching university classes. I was not personally involved in this.  From those who were, I understood that the company was very responsive to requests for features that were needed to make it useful
for the university.  This was all going on before the pandemic started and the use of Zoom exploded overnight.  I was impressed with how fast they were able to scale up.   They were there at the right time.  I think many of the problems resulted from this unexpected growth.  It was tested in the fire, so to speak.  The security reports in Wikipedia were all from 2020 or earlier, and nothing seems to have been added since. Perhaps there are but I didn't see anything and haven't heard of
anything, so,  optimistically I've been thinking that the problems have been mostly ironed out.

From only the Wikipedia report and no further reading it's not clear to me whether using a web browser to attend a zoom meeting would be any
safer than using the native application and I'm not doing international diplomatic negotiations anyway.  All I can say is that it's been working flawlessly for me for 4 or 5 years and has been improving quite a bit as time goes by.  If your need is to attend Zoom meetings, you can't just use Jitsi instead.  And I have always wondered, if Jitsi or any other
app were used as much by as many people as Zoom has been, how many security flaws would be found in them.  The Wikipedia article on Jitsi says that due to it's hosting on AWS Jitsi is not GDPR compliant.  Do
you or anyone have alternative that can be said with confidence to be better?

Don MacDougall

As I have previously said, the issue of zoom was previously discussed on this list, and, people interested in considering zoom, should have
searched the list archive, and, found previous discussions relating to zoom.

Is there a way to search for "zoom" in some debian-user archive?

I found https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ ? But I am way to lazy to search through all those pages looking to see if at any time some had made a comment about Zoom that is likely to be outdated by this time. Is there a way to do one single search
through all of these archives?


1994 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr]
1995 [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1996 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1997 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1998 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1999 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2000 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2001 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2002 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2003 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2004 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2005 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2006 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2007 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2008 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2009 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2010 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2011 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2012 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2013 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2014 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2015 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2016 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2017 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2018 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2019 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2020 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2021 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2022 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2023 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2024 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2025 [Jan]

I found a list by year and month. I found those list

One report that was previously cited in previous discussions of zoom on
this list, that should have been read by people recommending zoom, is
the report at https://www.theregister.com/2023/0/15/software_freedom_conservancy_zoom/

But, if you want to record what goes on in the bathrooms of your houses,

I fail to understand? How does using Zoom in a web browser on your desktop computer in your private study some how affect the privacy of " the bathrooms of your houses" ?

and, the sex lives and nude imagery of your wives and daughters, and, broadcast them on the World Wide web, then, sure, go ahead and use zoom,

We used Zoom in our work environment, it was password protected, no bombing (we knew who was or was not supposed to be in a meeting).

I am concerned that I may have missed some important articles on what Zoom was doing?

But I am at a loss of how on a technical level the above concerns could be realised? Unless you have only one room in your house, and everyone walks around naked all the time.

I am curious about "upskirt videos" and cars? How is that even possible?

to your hearts content. Such is the nature of zoom, like the pedo guy's cars, that have been reported to have cameras specially placed in them,
to record and transmit back to the car manufacturer's headquarters, such material as upskirt videos and photographs, for the pleasure of the
world's richest pervert.

Who needs or wants privacy and security, anyway?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 07:05:32 +1100, George at Clug wrote:

Is there a way to search for "zoom" in some debian-user archive?

Google accepts "site:lists.debian.org" in its search box.

Using this gives you a URL like <https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Alists.debian.org+zoom>
which is pretty likely have something relevant.

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Jami looks very useful. Thanks for mentioning this program.

On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 02:52 Charles Curley wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 01:44:28 -0800
D MacDougall <dmacdoug@usc.edu> wrote:

The Wikipedia article on Jitsi
says that due to it's hosting on AWS Jitsi is not GDPR compliant.  Do
you or anyone have alternative that can be said with confidence to be better?

Jami is package in Debian and does not use a central server at all.

While Jami says it does not use a central server, from what I can determine it uses a central server for user accounts. Is this correct? At least the user accounts are not required to store personal information, other than whatever Username a user may
choose to create, is this correct?

From my reading it may be possible to "host your own", thus a group of people, as in a PC Users group could host their own account server for members?

https://docs.jami.net/lt/developer/jami-concepts/index.html
Jami is a distributed platform that allows users to communicate without the need for a central server.

https://docs.jami.net/en_US/user/faq.html
A username (optional), which is a unique identifier that is directly associated with your Jami ID. This username→Jami ID mapping is stored on a server (ns.jami.net by default, but you can host your own).

I
haven't used it,

Is anyone on this list using Jami? And would not mind giving a short review on its effectiveness and its privacy?

so cannot say that it works any better or worse than
Jitsi.

A local PC User's group uses a self hosted Jitsi, since COVID days and this has been very useful and effective. This works best with a registered DNS name pointing to your Jitsi server's Internet IP address.

My family uses an internal LAN only (i.e. on our home network) Jitsi server for while we are gaming together. (gaming computers are in separate rooms). It is not reachable from the Internet.


George.

--
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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On 31/1/25 04:05, George at Clug wrote:

On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 01:11 Bret Busby wrote:

On 30/1/25 17:44, D MacDougall wrote:

On 1/29/25 21:20, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 12:28:55PM -0800, Donald MacDougall wrote:

I've been using Zoom from the beginning of the Corona virus epidemic >>>>> [...]
and haven't had any trouble that I think could be related to Zoom [...] >>>> Thanks for your report. Prompted by this thread I went to the Wikipedia. >>>>

After having read that, I'll try not to use Zoom (and to convince others >>>> to do likewise) as far as I can.

Cheers

Just now I read the article in Wikipedia and realized that I had read it >>> before several years ago.  There were a considerable number of security >>> issues back in 2020.  I haven't spent the time to go through them all in >>> detail.  My university was involved in the early development of Zoom for >>> use in teaching university classes. I was not personally involved in
this.  From those who were, I understood that the company was very
responsive to requests for features that were needed to make it useful
for the university.  This was all going on before the pandemic started
and the use of Zoom exploded overnight.  I was impressed with how fast
they were able to scale up.   They were there at the right time.  I
think many of the problems resulted from this unexpected growth.  It was >>> tested in the fire, so to speak.  The security reports in Wikipedia were >>> all from 2020 or earlier, and nothing seems to have been added since.
Perhaps there are but I didn't see anything and haven't heard of
anything, so,  optimistically I've been thinking that the problems have >>> been mostly ironed out.

From only the Wikipedia report and no further reading it's not clear to >>> me whether using a web browser to attend a zoom meeting would be any
safer than using the native application and I'm not doing international
diplomatic negotiations anyway.  All I can say is that it's been working >>> flawlessly for me for 4 or 5 years and has been improving quite a bit as >>> time goes by.  If your need is to attend Zoom meetings, you can't just
use Jitsi instead.  And I have always wondered, if Jitsi or any other
app were used as much by as many people as Zoom has been, how many
security flaws would be found in them.  The Wikipedia article on Jitsi
says that due to it's hosting on AWS Jitsi is not GDPR compliant.  Do
you or anyone have alternative that can be said with confidence to be
better?

Don MacDougall

As I have previously said, the issue of zoom was previously discussed on
this list, and, people interested in considering zoom, should have
searched the list archive, and, found previous discussions relating to zoom.

Is there a way to search for "zoom" in some debian-user archive?

I found https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ ? But I am way to lazy

Laziness doe not achieve vigilance, and therefore, does not achieve
privacy and security, and, permits usage of a person's computer, to
instigate DDOS attacks and other uses of a computer for malicious
activities, instigating attacks against hospitals, other emergency
services, and other government departments, including law enforcement
and the military.

Do you perform updates on your computers? Do you monitor the state of
your computers - free hard drive space, RAM usage, downloads and
uploads, that you have not authorised?

Hmmm.

to search through all those pages looking to see if at any time some had made a comment about Zoom that is likely to be outdated by this time. Is there a way to do one single search through all of these archives?

1994 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr]
1995 [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1996 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1997 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1998 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1999 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2000 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2001 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2002 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2003 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2004 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2005 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2006 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2007 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2008 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2009 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2010 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2011 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2012 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2013 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2014 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2015 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2016 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2017 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2018 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2019 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2020 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2021 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2022 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2023 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2024 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2025 [Jan]

I found a list by year and month. I found those list

One report that was previously cited in previous discussions of zoom on
this list, that should have been read by people recommending zoom, is
the report at
https://www.theregister.com/2023/0/15/software_freedom_conservancy_zoom/

But, if you want to record what goes on in the bathrooms of your houses,

I fail to understand? How does using Zoom in a web browser on your desktop computer in your private study some how affect the privacy of " the bathrooms of your houses" ?

and, the sex lives and nude imagery of your wives and daughters, and,
broadcast them on the World Wide web, then, sure, go ahead and use zoom,

The allusion is to do with the malignant privacy breaches by zoom,
allowing zoom staff to monitor whatever was in view of cameras on
systems on which zoom is installed - surveillance of wherever a computer
is located, that has a camera connected to zoom. Some people apparently
have computers in their bedrooms, with the computers having zoom
installed, or, otherwise, access to zoom. So, if people are always fully clothed, and, do not engage in an y intimate activities, and, do not
have people present, including themselves, wherever a computer is
located, that has zoom installed, or, can otherwise access zoom, they
probably do not need to worry about what zoom is going to do to them.

We used Zoom in our work environment, it was password protected, no bombing (we knew who was or was not supposed to be in a meeting).

Ah, yes, but, I trust that you were aware that zoom was recording, for
its own use, your communications?

I am concerned that I may have missed some important articles on what Zoom was doing?

Did you read the article about why zoom was regarded as not safe to use?
With AI, that it was being used to intercept people's communications, to
train the zoom AI, so that zoom could set up fake representations of
zoom users, to impersonate them, like deepfake porn.

But I am at a loss of how on a technical level the above concerns could be realised? Unless you have only one room in your house, and everyone walks around naked all the time.

I am curious about "upskirt videos" and cars? How is that even possible?

It was to do with he placement of cameras in Tesla cars, and, the
unauthorised use of them, like some Australian school principals
remotely switching on webcams on students' laptop computers so that the principals could watch their students in their bedrooms.

to your hearts content. Such is the nature of zoom, like the pedo guy's
cars, that have been reported to have cameras specially placed in them,
to record and transmit back to the car manufacturer's headquarters, such
material as upskirt videos and photographs, for the pleasure of the
world's richest pervert.

Who needs or wants privacy and security, anyway?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

--
..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Bret,

Thanks for replying.

On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 07:31 Bret Busby wrote:

On 31/1/25 04:05, George at Clug wrote:

On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 01:11 Bret Busby wrote:

On 30/1/25 17:44, D MacDougall wrote:

On 1/29/25 21:20, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 12:28:55PM -0800, Donald MacDougall wrote:

I've been using Zoom from the beginning of the Corona virus epidemic >>>>> [...]
and haven't had any trouble that I think could be related to Zoom [...] >>>> Thanks for your report. Prompted by this thread I went to the Wikipedia. >>>>

After having read that, I'll try not to use Zoom (and to convince others >>>> to do likewise) as far as I can.

Cheers

Just now I read the article in Wikipedia and realized that I had read it >>> before several years ago.  There were a considerable number of security >>> issues back in 2020.  I haven't spent the time to go through them all in >>> detail.  My university was involved in the early development of Zoom for >>> use in teaching university classes. I was not personally involved in
this.  From those who were, I understood that the company was very
responsive to requests for features that were needed to make it useful >>> for the university.  This was all going on before the pandemic started >>> and the use of Zoom exploded overnight.  I was impressed with how fast >>> they were able to scale up.   They were there at the right time.  I
think many of the problems resulted from this unexpected growth.  It was >>> tested in the fire, so to speak.  The security reports in Wikipedia were >>> all from 2020 or earlier, and nothing seems to have been added since.
Perhaps there are but I didn't see anything and haven't heard of
anything, so,  optimistically I've been thinking that the problems have >>> been mostly ironed out.

From only the Wikipedia report and no further reading it's not clear to >>> me whether using a web browser to attend a zoom meeting would be any
safer than using the native application and I'm not doing international >>> diplomatic negotiations anyway.  All I can say is that it's been working >>> flawlessly for me for 4 or 5 years and has been improving quite a bit as >>> time goes by.  If your need is to attend Zoom meetings, you can't just >>> use Jitsi instead.  And I have always wondered, if Jitsi or any other >>> app were used as much by as many people as Zoom has been, how many
security flaws would be found in them.  The Wikipedia article on Jitsi >>> says that due to it's hosting on AWS Jitsi is not GDPR compliant.  Do >>> you or anyone have alternative that can be said with confidence to be
better?

Don MacDougall

As I have previously said, the issue of zoom was previously discussed on >> this list, and, people interested in considering zoom, should have
searched the list archive, and, found previous discussions relating to zoom.

Is there a way to search for "zoom" in some debian-user archive?

I found https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ ? But I am way to lazy

Laziness doe not achieve vigilance, and therefore, does not achieve
privacy and security, and, permits usage of a person's computer, to instigate DDOS attacks and other uses of a computer for malicious activities, instigating attacks against hospitals, other emergency
services, and other government departments, including law enforcement
and the military.

Do you perform updates on your computers? Do you monitor the state of
your computers - free hard drive space, RAM usage, downloads and
uploads, that you have not authorised?

Hmmm.

It is true, I do not search through my WireShark logs of my network's Internet activity. ; )

But I do diligently apply security updates.

I do review logs, Internet usage, and use other security methods.

(At least once each decade, honest)

to search through all those pages looking to see if at any time some had made a comment about Zoom that is likely to be outdated by this time. Is there a way to do one single search through all of these archives?

1994 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr]
1995 [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1996 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1997 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1998 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1999 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2000 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2001 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2002 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2003 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2004 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2005 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2006 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2007 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2008 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2009 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2010 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2011 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2012 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2013 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2014 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2015 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2016 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2017 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2018 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2019 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2020 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2021 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2022 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2023 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2024 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2025 [Jan]

I found a list by year and month. I found those list

One report that was previously cited in previous discussions of zoom on
this list, that should have been read by people recommending zoom, is
the report at
https://www.theregister.com/2023/0/15/software_freedom_conservancy_zoom/ >>
But, if you want to record what goes on in the bathrooms of your houses,

I fail to understand? How does using Zoom in a web browser on your desktop computer in your private study some how affect the privacy of " the bathrooms of your houses" ?

and, the sex lives and nude imagery of your wives and daughters, and,
broadcast them on the World Wide web, then, sure, go ahead and use zoom,

The allusion is to do with the malignant privacy breaches by zoom,
allowing zoom staff to monitor whatever was in view of cameras on
systems on which zoom is installed - surveillance of wherever a computer
is located, that has a camera connected to zoom. Some people apparently
have computers in their bedrooms, with the computers having zoom
installed, or, otherwise, access to zoom. So, if people are always fully clothed, and, do not engage in an y intimate activities, and, do not
have people present, including themselves, wherever a computer is
located, that has zoom installed, or, can otherwise access zoom, they probably do not need to worry about what zoom is going to do to them.

I have read that video recorded from Samsung smart TVs were viewed by some employees, and such videos made their way on the dark web for other's amusement.

I had not read about issues with Zoom.

We used Zoom in our work environment, it was password protected, no bombing (we knew who was or was not supposed to be in a meeting).

Ah, yes, but, I trust that you were aware that zoom was recording, for
its own use, your communications?

I am concerned that I may have missed some important articles on what Zoom was doing?

Did you read the article about why zoom was regarded as not safe to use? With AI, that it was being used to intercept people's communications, to train the zoom AI, so that zoom could set up fake representations of
zoom users, to impersonate them, like deepfake porn.

But I am at a loss of how on a technical level the above concerns could be realised? Unless you have only one room in your house, and everyone walks around naked all the time.

I am curious about "upskirt videos" and cars? How is that even possible?

It was to do with he placement of cameras in Tesla cars, and, the unauthorised use of them,

I had not heard about such issues, if you have any links to such reported issues, please send me some (on list or privately).

I have not been able to identify any camera's that would be at a position to record such video. But then, maybe that depends on how short the skirt was. My family tend to wear jeans, not skirts, so I not something I have considered. Thanks for raising
this issue, such issues had not entered my thoughts before.

Would this also an issue for police mobile phone usage camera's ? I believe some such images have captured "unique" seating arrangements and attire people wear (or not wear) while travelling in a car.

like some Australian school principals
remotely switching on webcams on students' laptop computers so that the principals could watch their students in their bedrooms.

Yes, I have heard of this issue, and monitored it. I don't think I kept links, sadly.

We have a strict policy in our house. No phones in toilets or bathrooms, be fully clothed when have using or having a camera enabled electronic device (computer, tablet, phone) powered on, and when not fully clothed all phone cameras are covered (e.g. in
a container). I understand that even when smart phones are powered off, the occasionally turn themselves back on, to record where the phone is currently located. Not sure what else they record.

Yes, we too are paranoid.

to your hearts content. Such is the nature of zoom, like the pedo guy's
cars, that have been reported to have cameras specially placed in them,
to record and transmit back to the car manufacturer's headquarters, such >> material as upskirt videos and photographs, for the pleasure of the
world's richest pervert.

Who needs or wants privacy and security, anyway?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

--
..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri 31 Jan 2025 at 07:05:32 (+1100), George at Clug wrote:

Is there a way to search for "zoom" in some debian-user archive?

I found https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ ? But I am way to lazy to search through all those pages looking to see if at any time some had made a comment about Zoom that is likely to be outdated by this time. Is there a way to do one single search

through all of these archives?

1994 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr]
1995 [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1996 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1997 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1998 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1999 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2000 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2001 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2002 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2003 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2004 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2005 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2006 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2007 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2008 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2009 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2010 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2011 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2012 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2013 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2014 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2015 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2016 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2017 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2018 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2019 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2020 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2021 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2022 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2023 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2024 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2025 [Jan]

I found a list by year and month. I found those list

That page continues:

List archives get refreshed every 20 minutes.

You can link to the most recent page in the archives for this list.

Search for: [_________________________]

Matching any words Matching all words Syntax help [ radio ]
Sort by: Relevance Date (newest first) [buttons]

Hits per page: [10/50/100]

[Search]

Cheers,
David.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday 30 January 2025 09:11:16 am Bret Busby wrote:

One report that was previously cited in previous discussions of zoom on
this list, that should have been read by people recommending zoom, is
the report at https://www.theregister.com/2023/0/15/software_freedom_conservancy_zoom/

Trying that link just now got me a 404 error...

--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 09:07 Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:

On Thursday 30 January 2025 09:11:16 am Bret Busby wrote:

One report that was previously cited in previous discussions of zoom on this list, that should have been read by people recommending zoom, is
the report at https://www.theregister.com/2023/0/15/software_freedom_conservancy_zoom/

Trying that link just now got me a 404 error...

Roy,

Try https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/15/software_freedom_conservancy_zoom

George.

--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 31/1/25 05:16, George at Clug wrote:

Bret,

Thanks for replying.

On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 07:31 Bret Busby wrote:

On 31/1/25 04:05, George at Clug wrote:

On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 01:11 Bret Busby wrote:

On 30/1/25 17:44, D MacDougall wrote:

On 1/29/25 21:20, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 12:28:55PM -0800, Donald MacDougall wrote: >>>>>>> I've been using Zoom from the beginning of the Corona virus epidemic >>>>>>> [...]

and haven't had any trouble that I think could be related to Zoom [...] >>>>>> Thanks for your report. Prompted by this thread I went to the Wikipedia. >>>>>>

After having read that, I'll try not to use Zoom (and to convince others >>>>>> to do likewise) as far as I can.

Cheers

Just now I read the article in Wikipedia and realized that I had read it >>>>> before several years ago.  There were a considerable number of security >>>>> issues back in 2020.  I haven't spent the time to go through them all in >>>>> detail.  My university was involved in the early development of Zoom for >>>>> use in teaching university classes. I was not personally involved in >>>>> this.  From those who were, I understood that the company was very
responsive to requests for features that were needed to make it useful >>>>> for the university.  This was all going on before the pandemic started >>>>> and the use of Zoom exploded overnight.  I was impressed with how fast >>>>> they were able to scale up.   They were there at the right time.  I >>>>> think many of the problems resulted from this unexpected growth.  It was >>>>> tested in the fire, so to speak.  The security reports in Wikipedia were >>>>> all from 2020 or earlier, and nothing seems to have been added since. >>>>> Perhaps there are but I didn't see anything and haven't heard of
anything, so,  optimistically I've been thinking that the problems have >>>>> been mostly ironed out.

From only the Wikipedia report and no further reading it's not clear to
me whether using a web browser to attend a zoom meeting would be any >>>>> safer than using the native application and I'm not doing international >>>>> diplomatic negotiations anyway.  All I can say is that it's been working >>>>> flawlessly for me for 4 or 5 years and has been improving quite a bit as >>>>> time goes by.  If your need is to attend Zoom meetings, you can't just >>>>> use Jitsi instead.  And I have always wondered, if Jitsi or any other >>>>> app were used as much by as many people as Zoom has been, how many
security flaws would be found in them.  The Wikipedia article on Jitsi >>>>> says that due to it's hosting on AWS Jitsi is not GDPR compliant.  Do >>>>> you or anyone have alternative that can be said with confidence to be >>>>> better?

Don MacDougall

As I have previously said, the issue of zoom was previously discussed on >>>> this list, and, people interested in considering zoom, should have
searched the list archive, and, found previous discussions relating to zoom.

Is there a way to search for "zoom" in some debian-user archive?

I found https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ ? But I am way to lazy

Laziness doe not achieve vigilance, and therefore, does not achieve
privacy and security, and, permits usage of a person's computer, to
instigate DDOS attacks and other uses of a computer for malicious
activities, instigating attacks against hospitals, other emergency
services, and other government departments, including law enforcement
and the military.

Do you perform updates on your computers? Do you monitor the state of
your computers - free hard drive space, RAM usage, downloads and
uploads, that you have not authorised?

Hmmm.

It is true, I do not search through my WireShark logs of my network's Internet activity. ; )

But I do diligently apply security updates.

I do review logs, Internet usage, and use other security methods.

(At least once each decade, honest)

to search through all those pages looking to see if at any time some had made a comment about Zoom that is likely to be outdated by this time. Is there a way to do one single search through all of these archives?


1994 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr]
1995 [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1996 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1997 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1998 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
1999 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2000 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2001 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2002 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2003 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2004 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2005 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2006 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2007 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2008 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2009 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2010 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2011 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2012 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2013 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2014 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2015 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2016 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2017 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2018 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2019 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2020 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2021 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2022 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2023 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2024 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec]
2025 [Jan]

I found a list by year and month. I found those list

One report that was previously cited in previous discussions of zoom on >>>> this list, that should have been read by people recommending zoom, is
the report at
https://www.theregister.com/2023/0/15/software_freedom_conservancy_zoom/ >>>>
But, if you want to record what goes on in the bathrooms of your houses, >>>

I fail to understand? How does using Zoom in a web browser on your desktop computer in your private study some how affect the privacy of " the bathrooms of your houses" ?

Does any bedroom of your house, have an en-suite bathroom? Does the
bedroom have a "laptop" computer in it, at any time?

Some people, in addition to having computers on desks in bedrooms (such
as students), also, sit on their beds, and use "laptop" computers, or
tablet PC's, or cellphones.

People do not need to be sitting in a bath, holding a desktop computer,
or a "laptop" computer, or, sitting on a toilet, or, standing in a
shower, or, undressing (or dressing), to be able to e visible to a
camera connected to zoom.

and, the sex lives and nude imagery of your wives and daughters, and,
broadcast them on the World Wide web, then, sure, go ahead and use zoom, >>>

The allusion is to do with the malignant privacy breaches by zoom,
allowing zoom staff to monitor whatever was in view of cameras on
systems on which zoom is installed - surveillance of wherever a computer
is located, that has a camera connected to zoom. Some people apparently
have computers in their bedrooms, with the computers having zoom
installed, or, otherwise, access to zoom. So, if people are always fully
clothed, and, do not engage in an y intimate activities, and, do not
have people present, including themselves, wherever a computer is
located, that has zoom installed, or, can otherwise access zoom, they
probably do not need to worry about what zoom is going to do to them.

I have read that video recorded from Samsung smart TVs were viewed by some employees, and such videos made their way on the dark web for other's amusement.

A problem with "smart" tv's (I do not know that "smart" tv's have
cameras), is that they can be used to monitor such things as what
television programmes and channels, a person watches, and when, and,
when a person is present and watching television. It is like "smart
home" stuff, and, the "IoT", especially, "security" cameras for
households, where the stuff goes up into the clouds, to be breached,
allowing burglars to know when people are at home, and/or asleep, and,
apart from enabling the cloud people to watch people in their homes,
allows home invasion people, the same access to information, enabling
rapists, apart from robbers, to know when is best to strike.

After problems that we have had in this household, with security, and,
in considering getting "security" cameras installed, with the uploading
of everything, to the clouds, for the pleasure of the nasties in the
clouds, I decided that getting the insecurity cameras, is too dangerous,
and, we would be better of, instead, using booby traps and other weaponry.

I had not read about issues with Zoom.

We used Zoom in our work environment, it was password protected, no bombing (we knew who was or was not supposed to be in a meeting).

Ah, yes, but, I trust that you were aware that zoom was recording, for
its own use, your communications?

I am concerned that I may have missed some important articles on what Zoom was doing?

Did you read the article about why zoom was regarded as not safe to use?
With AI, that it was being used to intercept people's communications, to
train the zoom AI, so that zoom could set up fake representations of
zoom users, to impersonate them, like deepfake porn.

But I am at a loss of how on a technical level the above concerns could be realised? Unless you have only one room in your house, and everyone walks around naked all the time.

I am curious about "upskirt videos" and cars? How is that even possible? >>>

It was to do with he placement of cameras in Tesla cars, and, the
unauthorised use of them,

I had not heard about such issues, if you have any links to such reported issues, please send me some (on list or privately).

Single example of abuse by Tesla and breaching privacy through cameras - https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/

Do a search using the terms
tesla cars cameras upskirt

I have not been able to identify any camera's that would be at a position to record such video. But then, maybe that depends on how short the skirt was. My family tend to wear jeans, not skirts, so I not something I have considered. Thanks for raising

this issue, such issues had not entered my thoughts before.

Would this also an issue for police mobile phone usage camera's ? I believe some such images have captured "unique" seating arrangements and attire people wear (or not wear) while travelling in a car.

That has already been reported, in relation to the use of the cameras
for catching people driving while playing with cellphones and other
amusements in motor vehicles, where women wear indiscreetly short
skirts, or drive "bottomless" or topless,or without underwear, and, with
people engaging in sex acts while driving. Apparently, the cameras for
catching people playing with electronic devices while driving, are
effective at catching people doing other things, also.

like some Australian school principals
remotely switching on webcams on students' laptop computers so that the
principals could watch their students in their bedrooms.

Yes, I have heard of this issue, and monitored it. I don't think I kept links, sadly.

We have a strict policy in our house. No phones in toilets or bathrooms, be fully clothed when have using or having a camera enabled electronic device (computer, tablet, phone) powered on, and when not fully clothed all phone cameras are covered (e.g.

in a container). I understand that even when smart phones are powered off, the occasionally turn themselves back on, to record where the phone is currently located. Not sure what else they record.

Yes, we too are paranoid.

In Australia, paranoia is a necessity.

I have no idea of whether you remember it, but, some years ago, federal
law in Australia, was changed, to give ASIO (for people outside
Australia, ASIO is the Australian equivalent to the CIA, and, effective
at smashing hotel rooms (that happen to be the wrong ones, not the
intended ones) ) unrestricted authority to change the content on a
person's computer and then deny that they had done it, which now means
that any evidence of what is found on a person's computer - where it be sexually related, or, plans to blow up the Australian space academy, or,
plans to assassinate the leader of the Gumby Party, are likely to be
falsified, and, so, no evidence of content that is found on a person's computer, is valid, for convicting the person for having the content on
the computer. It does not mean that being so falsely convicted, will not
occur - it just means that the evidence and the conviction, are not
safe", to use an appropriate term as used by the judiciary.

to your hearts content. Such is the nature of zoom, like the pedo guy's >>>> cars, that have been reported to have cameras specially placed in them, >>>> to record and transmit back to the car manufacturer's headquarters, such >>>> material as upskirt videos and photographs, for the pleasure of the
world's richest pervert.

Who needs or wants privacy and security, anyway?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

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On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 11:02:25PM -0800, D MacDougall wrote:

On 1/29/25 05:39, Gregory Forster wrote:

Hi, I've been using Debian for about 3 months, still a newbie. I'm
trying to get totally off of Windows.One program I'm not sure about is Zoom.If you go to their web site, they detect you're using Linux and ask which distro you're using.  I'm a little apprehensive about downloading from a vendor web site. Is there anyone here that's familiar  with Zoom
on Debian?

--
-- Greg

Hi Greg and list,

[...]

4. If you want or need to join Zoom meetings that you do not control you

[...]

Or convince your partners to move to Jitsi. Or BBB. Sometimes that
effort works out, and this is *definitely worth it*.

After all we are on a mailing list discussing, and powered by, free
software. We know why.

Cheers
--
t

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On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 18:02 D MacDougall wrote:

On 1/29/25 05:39, Gregory Forster wrote:

Hi, I've been using Debian for about 3 months, still a newbie. I'm
trying to get totally off of Windows.One program I'm not sure about is Zoom.If you go to their web site, they detect you're using Linux and ask which distro you're using.  I'm a little apprehensive about downloading from a vendor web site. Is there anyone here that's familiar  with Zoom
on Debian?

--
-- Greg

Hi Greg and list,

Greg, the original poster didn't spell out why he was contemplating installing Zoom on a Debian computer, but he did say he was still a
newbie having used Debian for about 3 mos.  From this description my assumption has been that he is probably not planning to begin hosting
Zoom meetings himself but rather to use a Zoom client to join one or
more Zoom meetings which are being hosted by others. He wanted to know whether he should be apprehensive about doing this.

My answer to this simple question is simply no.

My reasoning for this is as follows:

1. Installing it on Debian is certainly no more dangerous than
installing it on Windows or any other operating system and quiet
possibly less so.

2. There is no absolute security in this world.  All security is relative.

(I definately agree)

3. If you are not going to be a hermit and you are going to interact
with the world (and why else would you want a computer with a camera, microphone and internet connection), you sometimes have to do so on the world's terms.

4. If you want or need to join Zoom meetings that you do not control you will probably not find a more secure way to do it than by installing
Zoom's own proprietary client which has been tested in the real world
and works.

+1 - To me a very sensible and well balanced responce to the original question.

Don MacDougall

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Hi folks,

I am following this discussion here with great interest. We all know, that
Zoom is not quite secure and we all know, that our data are transferred int
the US (where they probably will be processed further on).

Thus, many alternatives were mentioned like Jitsi, Jami and BBB.

But I wondered, why nobody mentioned "Rustdesk". Rustdesk is fully open
source, it is free and you can either use theire servers or with little efforts, build your own. So you are fully on premise.

I also wondered, why no one mentioned "fairmeeting". Fairmeeting is the same
as Jitsi, and it is GPDA compliant.

Especially in Europe I would prefer fairmeeting over Jitsi (but that can
decide evryone for himself).

Both solutions are available for linux, windows and mac, and of course thy are free, open-source and costless.

Maybe this might be an alternative for Zoom?

Just my 2 cents....

Best regards

Hans

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On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 01:10:39AM -0800, D MacDougall wrote:

[...]

I wholeheatedly agree in principle and in circumstances where one has some amount of influence.

Thing is -- you always have some. Use it. Sometimes it's direct,
sometimes via advocacy groups, the best being to combine both.

However, if your "partners" are a university which is using it to teach hundreds or even thousands of classes at the same time and you are one individual user, perhaps even a "newby" user at that, I'm not sure it would be worth the time.

Defaetism is your enemy's sharpest weapon.

In fact it likely wouldn't even be possible.  Zoom scales to 1000s of users amazingly well [...]

Most of the time, the "normal" size is 30s to 40s of users. And I have
seen BBB perform surprisingly well there. Two examples

- our local bi-monthly free software meet, which is hybrid (about
five local, about 20-30 remote). Big Blue Button works like a charm

- the local music school, which started teleconferencing during
the pandemic, which has a self-hosted and specially tuned BBB
instance (for low latency: musicians tend to care about this).

That's just in our small town.

Cheers
--
t

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On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 10:26:45PM -0800, D MacDougall wrote:

On 1/31/25 02:46, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

Thing is -- you always have some. Use it. Sometimes it's direct,
sometimes via advocacy groups, the best being to combine both.

...

Most of the time, the "normal" size is 30s to 40s of users. And I have
seen BBB perform surprisingly well there. Two examples

- our local bi-monthly free software meet, which is hybrid (about
five local, about 20-30 remote). Big Blue Button works like a charm

- the local music school, which started teleconferencing during
the pandemic, which has a self-hosted and specially tuned BBB
instance (for low latency: musicians tend to care about this).

That's just in our small town.

Cheers

That's very interesting, thanks for the info.

I just wanted to dispell the impression that "there's no choice".
That's what a commercial entity's marketing department wants you
to believe -- after all, they get paid for that.

As another encouraging datapoint, there's Senfcall [0], a not
for profit set up back then during pandemic to allow private
persons to set up video calls (they use BBB).

They got so flooded in donations that they aren't taking any
at the moment, and propose other organizations to send the
money to [1].

Free software is an interal part of a free society, and, as
the latter, takes a lot of small-scale work. It's nothing you
can "buy".

Cheers
[0] https://www.senfcall.de/
[1] https://www.senfcall.de/donate/
--
t

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