• web browser recommendation

    From songbird@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 6 18:40:02 2025
    i currently use firefox and have mostly been ok with it.

    would like to try something else.

    currently running testing.

    any that have any filtering capabilities? yt and a few
    other sites are intolerable without a decent blocker.


    songbird

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  • From Eben King@21:1/5 to songbird on Thu Mar 6 18:50:02 2025
    On 3/6/25 12:32, songbird wrote:

    any that have any filtering capabilities? yt and a few
    other sites are intolerable without a decent blocker.

    If you're talking about ads, Noscript and Ghostery on FF take care of
    them for me.

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  • From Bret Busby@21:1/5 to songbird on Thu Mar 6 19:00:01 2025
    On 7/3/25 01:32, songbird wrote:
    i currently use firefox and have mostly been ok with it.

    would like to try something else.

    currently running testing.

    any that have any filtering capabilities? yt and a few
    other sites are intolerable without a decent blocker.


    songbird

    Try this
    https://vivaldi.com/

    ..
    Bret Busby
    Armadale
    West Australia
    (UTC+0800)
    ..............

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  • From Frank McCormick@21:1/5 to songbird on Thu Mar 6 19:10:01 2025
    On 2025-03-06 12:32, songbird wrote:
    i currently use firefox and have mostly been ok with it.

    would like to try something else.

    currently running testing.

    any that have any filtering capabilities? yt and a few
    other sites are intolerable without a decent blocker.


    songbird


    Vivaldi is my backup browser. It's based on Chromium.


    Frank

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  • From debian@kcburns.com@21:1/5 to songbird on Thu Mar 6 20:30:01 2025
    On 3/6/25 12:32 PM, songbird wrote:
    i currently use firefox and have mostly been ok with it.

    would like to try something else.

    currently running testing.

    any that have any filtering capabilities? yt and a few
    other sites are intolerable without a decent blocker.


    songbird


    https://itsfoss.com/brave-vs-vivaldi/

    https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/how-does-vivaldi-compare-to-brave-in-terms-of-privacy/17715

    and several other sites.


    ... wanted maximum privacy in a browser,
    didn't want integrated email & calendar,
    so chose Brave Browser.


    Ken

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Bret Busby on Thu Mar 6 21:30:01 2025
    Bret Busby <bret@busby.net> wrote:
    On 7/3/25 01:32, songbird wrote:
    i currently use firefox and have mostly been ok with it.

    would like to try something else.

    currently running testing.

    any that have any filtering capabilities? yt and a few
    other sites are intolerable without a decent blocker.


    songbird

    Try this
    https://vivaldi.com/

    Yes, I like Vivaldi too. It's Chromium based so can use Chromium
    addons and so on.

    I use an external ad blocker, i.e. in my router using a blacklist, the advantage being that it blocks ads on for all systems on my home LAN.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From KISER JD@21:1/5 to songbird on Thu Mar 6 22:10:02 2025
    On Thu, Mar 6, 2025, at 18:32, songbird wrote:
    i currently use firefox and have mostly been ok with it.

    would like to try something else.

    currently running testing.

    any that have any filtering capabilities? yt and a few
    other sites are intolerable without a decent blocker.


    songbird

    LibreWolf
    https://librewolf.net/installation/debian/

    It will run most of the same Firefox extensions.

    The Chromium-based browsers will soon lose many adblock capabilities due to Manifest V3.

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to KISER JD on Thu Mar 6 22:30:02 2025
    On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 21:50:27 +0100, KISER JD wrote:
    The Chromium-based browsers will soon lose many adblock capabilities due to Manifest V3.


    When I updated google-chrome-stable the other day, it informed me
    that it was disabling uBlock Origin. Thus began my own search for
    some answers. I'd never even *heard* of Manifest until that moment,
    so I was starting from square zero.

    (Short answer: Manifest is a sort of browser extension API. It defines
    what capabilities an extension may use. Google is phasing out version 2
    of the Manifest API in favor of version 3, which offers fewer features.)

    However, I don't use a lot of extensions, and uBlock Origin was the
    only one that was disabled by the upgrade. For me, the question wasn't
    really "How can I get uBlock Origin to work again?" I mean, it's a
    great extension, and I loved having it. The real question, though, was
    "How do I get ad blocking to work again?"

    Because, let's face it, the Web without an ad blocker is just not a
    pleasant experience at all.

    One of the possible answers was to switch to "uBlock Origin Lite",
    which is less capable (it can't "phone home" to update its block lists
    because Manifest v3 doesn't permit that), but may still be good enough
    for most people.

    Another answer is to use Firefox. In my case, I'm already doing that.
    I run both Firefox *and* Chrome (up until the other day), with one set
    of tabs in Firefox, and another set in Chrome. So, I was looking for
    a replacement for Chrome that isn't Firefox.

    I ended up installing Brave. Sure, it's Chromium-based, and it will
    eventually drop support for Manifest v2 extensions, including uBlock
    Origin (even though it's supported right now). But it has its own
    built-in ad blocking *by default*, so you don't actually *need* uBlock
    Origin to have a satisfactory environment.

    I urge people to investigate the various browsers that are out there
    and choose for themselves. Everyone's needs are different, so it's
    good that there are multiple choices available.

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  • From Bret Busby@21:1/5 to Bret Busby on Fri Mar 7 00:40:02 2025
    On 7/3/25 01:57, Bret Busby wrote:
    On 7/3/25 01:32, songbird wrote:
       i currently use firefox and have mostly been ok with it.

       would like to try something else.

       currently running testing.

       any that have any filtering capabilities?  yt and a few
    other sites are intolerable without a decent blocker.


       songbird

    Try this
    https://vivaldi.com/

    ..
    Bret Busby
    Armadale
    West Australia
    (UTC+0800)
    ..............

    You also might want to try this -

    https://www.palemoon.org/

    ..
    Bret Busby
    Armadale
    West Australia
    (UTC+0800)
    ..............

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  • From Andy Smith@21:1/5 to songbird on Fri Mar 7 00:30:01 2025
    Hi,

    On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 12:32:33PM -0500, songbird wrote:
    i currently use firefox and have mostly been ok with it.

    would like to try something else.

    As far as I'm aware every alternative to Firefox is one or more of:

    - Chromium, so strictly worse

    - Based on Chromium, so strictly worse

    - A skin on Firefox, so may as well be Firefox

    - Deeply entwined with cryptocurrency bros or AI grift, so unacceptable

    - Not production ready

    any that have any filtering capabilities? yt and a few
    other sites are intolerable without a decent blocker.

    I am not aware of any browser that has as sophisticated ad blocking
    features as Firefox does. In particular, anything based on Chromium is
    the product of an ad company so is never going to be able to reliably
    block ads.

    None of this is to say that I believe Firefox or Mozilla are perfect.

    Someone will probably be along now to say they manage perfectly well
    hiring an intern to sketch the contents of webpages onto the side of a
    potato then mail it to their dead drop once a month and any other
    requirements are pure hedonism. All answers are subjective.

    Thanks,
    Andy

    --
    https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

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  • From Richmond@21:1/5 to songbird on Fri Mar 7 01:10:01 2025
    songbird <songbird@anthive.com> writes:

    i currently use firefox and have mostly been ok with it.

    would like to try something else.

    currently running testing.

    any that have any filtering capabilities? yt and a few
    other sites are intolerable without a decent blocker.


    songbird

    If you were feeling patient you could install icecat using guix. But
    it's a bit out of date at the moment.

    GNU IceCat 115.21.0esr

    Create a new linux user to try out guix.

    https://guix.gnu.org/

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  • From Nate Bargmann@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 7 04:10:01 2025
    My answer is to block as much as possible at my router. As I run
    OpenWrt for my router, I have the Adblock package installed and running.
    This way I get blocking applied for other devices such as our phones and Chromium when it disables uBlock origin.

    There are other options I'm aware of but haven't used such as PiHole to
    do blocking.

    I do have uBlock Origin installed and working in the browsers as well.
    Getting used to this and then using my phone on mobile data is a jarring experience!

    - Nate

    --
    "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
    possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
    Web: https://www.n0nb.us
    Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
    GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819


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  • From Stefan Monnier@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 7 05:00:01 2025
    I do have uBlock Origin installed and working in the browsers as well. Getting used to this and then using my phone on mobile data is a jarring experience!

    I don't understand. Why don't you install uBlock Origin on your phone?


    Stefan "using uMatrix on his phone"

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  • From songbird@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Fri Mar 7 05:00:01 2025
    Greg Wooledge wrote:
    ...
    One of the possible answers was to switch to "uBlock Origin Lite",
    which is less capable (it can't "phone home" to update its block lists because Manifest v3 doesn't permit that), but may still be good enough
    for most people.

    Another answer is to use Firefox. In my case, I'm already doing that.
    I run both Firefox *and* Chrome (up until the other day), with one set
    of tabs in Firefox, and another set in Chrome. So, I was looking for
    a replacement for Chrome that isn't Firefox.

    I ended up installing Brave. Sure, it's Chromium-based, and it will eventually drop support for Manifest v2 extensions, including uBlock
    Origin (even though it's supported right now). But it has its own
    built-in ad blocking *by default*, so you don't actually *need* uBlock
    Origin to have a satisfactory environment.

    I urge people to investigate the various browsers that are out there
    and choose for themselves. Everyone's needs are different, so it's
    good that there are multiple choices available.

    yes, thank you! :)

    so far all of the replies have been helpful and useful.
    please keep 'em coming if something hasn't been mentioned yet
    i'd like to hear about it.


    songbird

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  • From Nate Bargmann@21:1/5 to Stefan Monnier on Fri Mar 7 13:10:01 2025
    * On 2025 06 Mar 21:57 -0600, Stefan Monnier wrote:
    I do have uBlock Origin installed and working in the browsers as well. Getting used to this and then using my phone on mobile data is a jarring experience!

    I don't understand. Why don't you install uBlock Origin on your phone?

    Oh, I do. Blocking ad sites at the router also cleans up apps like
    YouTube, Reddit, and streaming media. The difference is stark when
    switching to mobile data. As long as the phones are in range of the
    access points, most ads are blocked regardless of the app in use.

    - Nate

    --
    "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
    possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
    Web: https://www.n0nb.us
    Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
    GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819


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  • From fxkl47BF@protonmail.com@21:1/5 to Nate Bargmann on Fri Mar 7 15:10:02 2025
    On Thu, 6 Mar 2025, Nate Bargmann wrote:

    My answer is to block as much as possible at my router. As I run
    OpenWrt for my router, I have the Adblock package installed and running.
    This way I get blocking applied for other devices such as our phones and Chromium when it disables uBlock origin.

    when i looked up adblock on openwrt i get 4 options
    can you give more details

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  • From Nate Bargmann@21:1/5 to fxkl47BF@protonmail.com on Fri Mar 7 21:30:01 2025
    * On 2025 07 Mar 08:09 -0600, fxkl47BF@protonmail.com wrote:
    On Thu, 6 Mar 2025, Nate Bargmann wrote:

    My answer is to block as much as possible at my router. As I run
    OpenWrt for my router, I have the Adblock package installed and running. This way I get blocking applied for other devices such as our phones and Chromium when it disables uBlock origin.

    when i looked up adblock on openwrt i get 4 options
    can you give more details

    The one I am using is simply "Adblock" and is at version 4.2.3-3 (I'm
    running OpenWrt 23.05.5 on a Buffalo WZR-600DHP router which has 128 MB,
    plenty for this package). Other packages cater to lower memory
    situations, as I understand it.

    Adblock info: https://github.com/openwrt/packages/blob/master/net/adblock/files/README.md

    - Nate

    --
    "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
    possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
    Web: https://www.n0nb.us
    Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
    GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819


    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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  • From Roger Price@21:1/5 to Greg on Sat Mar 8 11:00:01 2025
    On Fri, 7 Mar 2025, Greg wrote:

    On 2025-03-07, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
    I believe David Wright uses some humongous hosts file to block ads on
    his computer rather than a brower add-on (if I'm remembering and understanding
    correctly).

    I do something similar but it's limited. What's the best way of generating the full humungous file of advertizement servers?

    Roger

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Roger Price on Sat Mar 8 11:30:01 2025
    Roger Price <debian@rogerprice.org> wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Mar 2025, Greg wrote:

    On 2025-03-07, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
    I believe David Wright uses some humongous hosts file to block ads on
    his computer rather than a brower add-on (if I'm remembering and understanding
    correctly).

    I do something similar but it's limited. What's the best way of generating the
    full humungous file of advertizement servers?

    Here's how to get the list I use in my router:-

    wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/StevenBlack/hosts/master/hosts

    The first few lines of the file contain links to further information.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Roger Price@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Sat Mar 8 13:10:01 2025
    On Sat, 8 Mar 2025, Chris Green wrote:

    ... some humongous hosts file to block ads

    wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/StevenBlack/hosts/master/hosts

    131425 ad servers. Fantastic! Thanks, Roger

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  • From Roger Price@21:1/5 to pocket@homemail.com on Sat Mar 8 14:10:01 2025
    On Sat, 8 Mar 2025, pocket@homemail.com wrote:

    Pi-hole is your friend https://pi-hole.net/

    Interesting, but for the moment I don't fancy pi-hole as my DNS server. Roger

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  • From debian-user@howorth.org.uk@21:1/5 to D MacDougall on Sat Mar 8 21:40:01 2025
    D MacDougall <dmacdoug@usc.edu> wrote:
    On 2025-03-08, D MacDougall <dmacdoug@usc.edu> wrote:
    ...
    I've been using DuckDuckGo as my primary search engine for
    years and have found that it's gradually been improving to the
    point that I seldom have cause to use any other.  Along the way I discovered that they also make a browser.
    ...
    The browser is free of charge.  They have about 3 services that you
    can subscribe to by the month or year such as a VPN but they are
    entirely separate from the browser.  They have a website that
    explains everything at length.

    https://duckduckgo.com

    That's just a blank page except for a picture of a duck, the word
    DuckDuckGo and a search box. No explanation of anything at any length?

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  • From Charlie Gibbs@21:1/5 to debian-user@howorth.org.uk on Sat Mar 8 23:10:02 2025
    On Sat Mar 8 13:29:36 2025 debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:

    D MacDougall <dmacdoug@usc.edu> wrote:

    On 2025-03-08, D MacDougall <dmacdoug@usc.edu> wrote: =20
    ...
    I've been using DuckDuckGo as my primary search engine for
    years and have found that it's gradually been improving to the
    point that I seldom have cause to use any other. Along the way I
    discovered that they also make a browser.
    ...
    The browser is free of charge. They have about 3 services that
    you can subscribe to by the month or year such as a VPN but they
    are entirely separate from the browser. They have a website that
    that explains everything at length.

    https://duckduckgo.com

    That's just a blank page except for a picture of a duck, the word
    DuckDuckGo and a search box. No explanation of anything at any length?

    Scroll down.

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Charlie Gibbs on Sun Mar 9 00:00:01 2025
    On Sat, Mar 08, 2025 at 13:39:18 -0800, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
    On Sat Mar 8 13:29:36 2025 debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:
    D MacDougall <dmacdoug@usc.edu> wrote:
    https://duckduckgo.com

    That's just a blank page except for a picture of a duck, the word DuckDuckGo and a search box. No explanation of anything at any length?

    Scroll down.

    Interesting. I see *way* more widgets than @howorth is seeing, even
    without looking downward.

    Across the top, I see the corporate logo, a long entry field for the
    search text, a button for chat (with a speech balloon icon next to it),
    and a hamburger menu button.

    Below that, there's some text in a large font, then a very large button offering me the opportunity to make DDG my default search engine.

    At the bottom of the page are the words "Learn more", and a round button
    with a downward-pointing arrow inside it.

    If @howorth is running some kind of ad blocker or client-side content
    filter that's altering the contents of the page, it must be a *really* aggressive one.

    P.S. looking at the HTML source with Ctrl-U, it's all one line. Seriously,
    who does that?

    hobbit:~$ xclip -o | wc
    0 2960 44363

    44 kilobytes of HTML/CSS/Javascript, all in one. stupid. line. Well,
    they found a way to make me stop trying to read their page source,
    that's for damned sure.

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  • From Bret Busby@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Sun Mar 9 00:10:01 2025
    On 9/3/25 06:56, Greg Wooledge wrote:


    P.S. looking at the HTML source with Ctrl-U, it's all one line. Seriously, who does that?

    hobbit:~$ xclip -o | wc
    0 2960 44363

    44 kilobytes of HTML/CSS/Javascript, all in one. stupid. line. Well,
    they found a way to make me stop trying to read their page source,
    that's for damned sure.


    Didn't C3PO say that he was fluent in bodgy?


    Maybe we all need our own C3PO's...

    With all of the robots on the 'net, and spiders and things, if we all
    had our own C3PO's, they could deal with the robots, and squash the
    spiders, so we could live in (a kind of) peace.

    That long line of code, might not be completely stupid. It might have
    some hidden AI thing (that they figure no member of the public would
    find, due to the length of the line), that starts playing "Rubber Ducky,
    you're the one", in an indefinite loop, until the web page is closed...

    ..
    Bret Busby
    Armadale
    West Australia
    (UTC+0800)
    ..............

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  • From John Hasler@21:1/5 to Greg on Sun Mar 9 00:20:01 2025
    Greg writes:
    looking at the HTML source with Ctrl-U, it's all one line. Seriously,
    who does that?

    "Website builders" and "content management systems". Modern Web
    designers never deal with HTML.
    --
    John Hasler
    john@sugarbit.com
    Elmwood, WI USA

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to Bret Busby on Sun Mar 9 00:20:01 2025
    On Sun, Mar 09, 2025 at 07:04:30 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
    That long line of code, might not be completely stupid. It might have some hidden AI thing (that they figure no member of the public would find, due to the length of the line), that starts playing "Rubber Ducky, you're the one", in an indefinite loop, until the web page is closed...

    The (lack of) format will discourage casual readers like me, but if
    someone actually cares enough to analyze it, I'm sure there are tools
    out there (pretty-printers, linters, etc.) that can format it in a
    sane way. I just don't care enough. It's not like I use DDG on a
    regular basis, and when I do, it's through a direct call to their search
    URL, not through their front page.

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  • From Christopher David Howie@21:1/5 to Jeffrey Walton on Sun Mar 9 07:00:01 2025
    On 3/7/25 11:49 AM, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
    I believe all the major browsers are using Manifest v3 nowadays.

    Most support Mv3 now, but AFAIK only Chrome has actually disabled Mv2
    support. All of my Mv2 extensions continue to work on Firefox.

    --
    Chris Howie
    http://www.chrishowie.com
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crazycomputers

    If you correspond with me on a regular basis, please read this document: http://www.chrishowie.com/email-preferences/

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  • From Christopher David Howie@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Sun Mar 9 07:10:01 2025
    On 3/6/25 4:25 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    I ended up installing Brave. Sure, it's Chromium-based, and it will eventually drop support for Manifest v2 extensions, including uBlock
    Origin (even though it's supported right now). But it has its own
    built-in ad blocking*by default*, so you don't actually*need* uBlock
    Origin to have a satisfactory environment.

    Many of my friends keep recommending Brave, but I cannot get past the
    fact that their business model is to strip ads from sites and insert
    their own ads instead (if the user opts-in to them). It is one thing to provide a free, open source, community-maintained ad blocker, it is
    another thing altogether to make it your business model to replace
    someone else's ads with your own. I cannot fathom how this could be
    considered ethical at all.

    The browser might provide a good user experience but their business
    model is *slimy as hell* and I cannot in good conscience support them in
    any way.

    --
    Chris Howie
    http://www.chrishowie.com
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crazycomputers

    If you correspond with me on a regular basis, please read this document: http://www.chrishowie.com/email-preferences/

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  • From debian@kcburns.com@21:1/5 to Christopher David Howie on Sun Mar 9 16:40:02 2025
    On 3/9/25 1:05 AM, Christopher David Howie wrote:
    On 3/6/25 4:25 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    I ended up installing Brave.  Sure, it's Chromium-based, and it will
    eventually drop support for Manifest v2 extensions, including uBlock
    Origin (even though it's supported right now).  But it has its own
    built-in ad blocking*by default*, so you don't actually*need* uBlock
    Origin to have a satisfactory environment.

    Many of my friends keep recommending Brave, but I cannot get past the
    fact that their business model is to strip ads from sites and insert
    their own ads instead (if the user opts-in to them).  It is one thing to provide a free, open source, community-maintained ad blocker, it is
    another thing altogether to make it your business model to replace
    someone else's ads with your own.  I cannot fathom how this could be considered ethical at all.

    The browser might provide a good user experience but their business
    model is *slimy as hell* and I cannot in good conscience support them in
    any way.



    Key point: "(if the user opts-in to them)". If the user (myself
    included) clicks the readily displayed option to opt out, then you get
    very effective ad blocking, combined with exceptional privacy.

    Yes, that affects their income stream, but so be it; because it provides
    what I want in a browser.

    By the way, I always use their Private mode, but not their TOR mode.
    When I want TOR, I use TOR.


    Ken

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  • From Ken Burns@21:1/5 to Christopher David Howie on Sun Mar 9 16:40:01 2025
    On 3/9/25 1:05 AM, Christopher David Howie wrote:
    On 3/6/25 4:25 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
    I ended up installing Brave.  Sure, it's Chromium-based, and it will
    eventually drop support for Manifest v2 extensions, including uBlock
    Origin (even though it's supported right now).  But it has its own
    built-in ad blocking*by default*, so you don't actually*need* uBlock
    Origin to have a satisfactory environment.

    Many of my friends keep recommending Brave, but I cannot get past the
    fact that their business model is to strip ads from sites and insert
    their own ads instead (if the user opts-in to them).  It is one thing to provide a free, open source, community-maintained ad blocker, it is
    another thing altogether to make it your business model to replace
    someone else's ads with your own.  I cannot fathom how this could be considered ethical at all.

    The browser might provide a good user experience but their business
    model is *slimy as hell* and I cannot in good conscience support them in
    any way.



    Key point: "(if the user opts-in to them)". If the user (myself
    included) clicks the readily displayed option to opt out, then you get
    very effective ad blocking, combined with exceptional privacy.

    Yes, that defeats their income stream, but so be it; because it provides
    what I want in a browser.

    By the way, I always use their Private mode, but not their TOR mode.
    When I want TOR, I use TOR.


    Ken

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  • From debian-user@howorth.org.uk@21:1/5 to D MacDougall on Sun Mar 9 16:40:02 2025
    D MacDougall <dmacdoug@usc.edu> wrote:
    On 3/8/25 12:34, debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:
    That's just a blank page except for a picture of a duck, the word DuckDuckGo and a search box. No explanation of anything at any
    length?


    Very odd.  On my phone I see exactly what you see plus several other
    things on the page.  One other thing on the page is three small
    stacked dashes in the top right corner which, if clicked pulls down a
    very complete menu.

    As you say, very odd. I enabled javascript and I still saw what I saw
    before, except the magnifying glass changes colour depending on whether
    it has focus. But if I then open a new window on the site, it does show
    me what you're talking about. :(

    Like most websites these days it serves things up in a different
    format to different browsers.  On a phone things are laid out
    vertically, on a computer with a wide screen, things are spread out
    across the screen.

    Hmm, I wonder if it does that using CSS as it should, or whether it too
    uses javascript :(

    I assume you were using a phone since that's what it looked like to me
    on my phone except I saw more.

    No I'm using a linux box since we're discussing browsers on a linux
    list! I don't do browsing on my phone, neither do I do anything
    financial at all. Too much risk.

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  • From Greg Wooledge@21:1/5 to debian@kcburns.com on Sun Mar 9 16:50:01 2025
    On Sun, Mar 09, 2025 at 11:34:41 -0400, debian@kcburns.com wrote:
    On 3/9/25 1:05 AM, Christopher David Howie wrote:
    Many of my friends keep recommending Brave, but I cannot get past the
    fact that their business model is to strip ads from sites and insert
    their own ads instead (if the user opts-in to them).

    Key point: "(if the user opts-in to them)". If the user (myself included) clicks the readily displayed option to opt out, then you get very effective ad blocking, combined with exceptional privacy.

    You don't have to click anything to opt out. It is literally opt in.
    You only have to click something to opt IN.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From debian-user@howorth.org.uk@21:1/5 to Greg Wooledge on Sun Mar 9 16:50:01 2025
    Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> wrote:
    On Sat, Mar 08, 2025 at 13:39:18 -0800, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
    On Sat Mar 8 13:29:36 2025 debian-user@howorth.org.uk wrote:
    D MacDougall <dmacdoug@usc.edu> wrote:
    https://duckduckgo.com

    That's just a blank page except for a picture of a duck, the word DuckDuckGo and a search box. No explanation of anything at any
    length?

    Scroll down.

    It's all one page, no scrolling.

    Interesting. I see *way* more widgets than @howorth is seeing, even
    without looking downward.

    Across the top, I see the corporate logo, a long entry field for the
    search text, a button for chat (with a speech balloon icon next to
    it), and a hamburger menu button.

    Below that, there's some text in a large font, then a very large
    button offering me the opportunity to make DDG my default search
    engine.

    At the bottom of the page are the words "Learn more", and a round
    button with a downward-pointing arrow inside it.

    If @howorth is running some kind of ad blocker or client-side content
    filter that's altering the contents of the page, it must be a *really* aggressive one.

    All I'm running is noscript. Aren't you?

    P.S. looking at the HTML source with Ctrl-U, it's all one line.
    Seriously, who does that?

    Anybody used to JS minimisation.

    hobbit:~$ xclip -o | wc
    0 2960 44363

    44 kilobytes of HTML/CSS/Javascript, all in one. stupid. line. Well,
    they found a way to make me stop trying to read their page source,
    that's for damned sure.

    That's what pretty printers are for surely?

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  • From Oliver Schode@21:1/5 to Ken Burns on Mon Mar 10 11:50:01 2025
    On Sun, 9 Mar 2025 11:15:12 -0400
    Ken Burns <kcb@kcburns.com> wrote:

    Key point: "(if the user opts-in to them)". If the user (myself
    included) clicks the readily displayed option to opt out, then you
    get very effective ad blocking, combined with exceptional privacy.


    Yes, and since privacy is a huge field I add specifically that at
    least on Android it even does a decent job at anti-fingerprinting, as
    far as that is still possible and for those who care. In this respect
    too and again speaking of Android, I'm not aware of another browser that
    comes close. Or even cares. Compared to Chrome there are a few
    compatibility issues of course, some sites or apps don't support it or
    not correctly. I can live with that nor is it much different from
    Firefox even on desktop. For me on mobile it's a no-brainer, don't know
    what to do were it not for it. Would probably make do with DDG's.
    That's solid though rather limited in comparison. Other than that
    there's basically just Chrome.

    It's all right knowing that, and getting reminded such and such isn't
    perfect, either (what is?). It'd be rather more enlightening to know
    what people actually use instead. That's not a thing on x86 as far as
    I'm concerned, where we have Firefox, thank goodness. And ToS or not I
    still have no clue why anyone would want to use anything else, forks
    included honestly. At least as long as Mozilla allows for proper ad
    blocking, and I'm not sure they could afford not to. It's not Google
    after all.

    Yes, that defeats their income stream, but so be it; because it
    provides what I want in a browser.


    Like others said, it should be possible to support in other, more no
    nonsense ways.

    By the way, I always use their Private mode, but not their TOR mode.


    Me too. With any browser, on any platform, always private. In my case
    it's learned behavior, mainly from the desktop and to avoid data
    cluttering. I prefer clean states, don't care about sessions or cookies.


    Oliver

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  • From fxkl47BF@protonmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 11 15:00:01 2025
    is anyone using opera

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  • From Bret Busby@21:1/5 to Marc Shapiro on Tue Apr 1 18:10:01 2025
    On 1/4/25 12:14, Marc Shapiro wrote:

    On 3/30/25 12:30 PM, Brad Rogers wrote:
    On Sun, 30 Mar 2025 12:23:04 -0700
    Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com> wrote:

    Hello Marc,

    I was looking into Brave the other day, but what stopped me was the
    lack of anything to replace Video Download Helper.
    I've got VDH installed in Brave.

    https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/video-downloadhelper/lmjnegcaeklhafolokijcfjliaokphfk

    Yes, but that version does not download from YouTube.  I have yt-dlp, so
    I can use Brave to find what I want, and then download with yt-dlp.  It would be nice to have something in the browser, but yt-dlp works fine
    from the command line.

    Thanks,

    Marc Shapiro

    I believe that I have found what is your problem, and, why you cannot
    solve it with using Video Download Helper (VDH).

    In going to, or, trying to access, youtube videos, in the last day or
    so, I have been getting error messages, with the first one (that is now
    gone, and, is not, so far reproduced), stating that VDH would be blocked
    after three accesses.

    The error message that now displays, is thus;

    "
    Ad blockers violate YouTube's Terms of Service
    It looks like you may be using an ad blocker. Video playback is blocked
    unless YouTube is allowlisted or the ad blocker is disabled.
    Ads allow YouTube to be used by billions worldwide.
    You can go ad-free with YouTube Premium and creators can still get paid
    from your subscription.
    Allow YouTube ads
    "

    I believe that AdBlock Plus, or, one of my ad blockers, has updated in
    the last couple of days, so, it could be a retaliatory strike from
    youtube, which I believe is owned by one of president donald duck's
    mates, in his reign of nastiness.

    So, I believe that the use of yt-dlp is the only solution. It still
    works (at present).

    ..
    Bret Busby
    Armadale
    West Australia
    (UTC+0800)
    ..............

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  • From Eben King@21:1/5 to Brad Rogers on Tue Apr 1 21:20:01 2025
    On 4/1/25 14:02, Brad Rogers wrote:

    The error message that now displays, is thus;

    "
    Ad blockers violate YouTube's Terms of Service
    It looks like you may be using an ad blocker. Video playback is blocked unless YouTube is allowlisted or the ad blocker is disabled.
    Ads allow YouTube to be used by billions worldwide.
    You can go ad-free with YouTube Premium and creators can still get paid
    from your subscription.
    Allow YouTube ads
    "

    I believe that AdBlock Plus, or, one of my ad blockers, has updated in
    the last couple of days, so, it could be a retaliatory strike from
    youtube, which I believe is owned by one of president donald duck's
    mates, in his reign of nastiness.

    I use Noscript and Ghostery, and don't see ads before or during YT
    videos, and neither have I got a warning like that.

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