On Mon Jun 2, 2025 at 6:29 AM BST, Mgr. Janusz Chmiel wrote:

Dear users and developers,
    I would like to know, if is it possible to use Debian Mate on mini PC with 8 GB of RAM if I will not use external monitor connected to
provided HDMI output connector.

It depends on the specific machine, unfortunately.

I've had a mini-PC that refused to boot without an attached display. It
had a VGA port and it was possible to build a dummy VGA attachment that
fooled the machine into thinking a display was attached. I don't know
how feasible building something like that is for HDMI.

I hope that this kind of misfeature is relatively rare.

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👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland
✎ jmtd@debian.org
🔗 https://jmtd.net

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On Mon, 02 Jun 2025 10:46:05 +0100
"Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> wrote:

On Mon Jun 2, 2025 at 6:29 AM BST, Mgr. Janusz Chmiel wrote:

Dear users and developers,
    I would like to know, if is it possible to use Debian Mate on
mini PC with 8 GB of RAM if I will not use external monitor
connected to provided HDMI output connector.

It depends on the specific machine, unfortunately.

I've had a mini-PC that refused to boot without an attached display.
It had a VGA port and it was possible to build a dummy VGA attachment
that fooled the machine into thinking a display was attached. I don't
know how feasible building something like that is for HDMI.

I hope that this kind of misfeature is relatively rare.

Certainly the Raspberry Pi OS (closely based on Debian, formerly called Raspbian) allows headless use. On first boot, there is a configuration
screen displayed, but this is only a convenient interface to the
configuration files, which are plain text files on the SD card of the
OS. SSH can be pre-enabled before first boot.

--
Joe

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On Mon, 2 Jun 2025 07:29:53 +0200
"Mgr. Janusz Chmiel" <mgr.janusz.chmiel@gmail.com> wrote:

    I would like to know, if is it possible to use Debian Mate on
mini PC with 8 GB of RAM if I will not use external monitor connected
to provided HDMI output connector.

You did not say which mini-PC you are considering, so only a general
answer is possible. Chances are you can.

You will need a monitor to install, and then some way of administering
the machine afterwards, typically an SSH server.

--
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https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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On Mon Jun 2, 2025 at 12:18 PM BST, Joe wrote:

Certainly the Raspberry Pi OS (closely based on Debian, formerly
called Raspbian) allows headless use.

The issue (for those machines that have it) is not the OS: it's the
firmware (artist formerly known as BIOS). If that does not support
headless, it doesn't matter what the OS does, it won't reach the OS.

--
Please do not CC me for listmail.

👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland
✎ jmtd@debian.org
🔗 https://jmtd.net

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I am booting various mini-pc without a display and it is working. I've
had good success with Minisforum brand.

The UXX branded one (cost less than $100 USD)(I can't find a model
number on it) has very buggy Bios firmware. Not even an option to
auto-start upon powerup, I always have to start it with the power
button. Built-in network port goes missing. Can't boot if USB network
dongle is plugged in (have to manually plug that in after boot,
otherwise it tries to boot of the network instead of internal ssd no
matter what I set in bios).

All of them running Debian Bookworm.

On 6/2/25 00:29, Mgr. Janusz Chmiel wrote:

Dear users and developers,
    I would like to know, if is it possible to use Debian Mate on mini
PC with 8 GB of RAM if I will not use external monitor connected to
provided HDMI output connector.
Does build in firmware written in Assembly allow Me to simply boot The
Debian kernel if The display will not be connected?
Or unfortunately, firmware will recognize this fact automatically and
will not allow me to load GRUB and boot The kernel:?
I do not see at all so I want to use 20 Watts energy comsumption with
no need to use external monitor.
It is possible on Raspbery but I Am afraid, that mini PCS firmwares
will not allow Me to boot The system at all.
What do you think?
Thank you very much for your answer.

--
Thank You!

Titus Newswanger
Curtiss WI

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On 6/2/25 00:29, Mgr. Janusz Chmiel wrote:

I would like to know, if is it possible to use Debian Mate

Mate? Am I correct, that is a desktop environment?

I don't know anything about mate. With some d.e., If you configure
networking etc in a gui while logged into a d.e. then remove monitor and reboot, you don't get some services activated until you login your
account in the d.e.

For running it headless a cleaner way would be install debian, then at
the tasksel select only: ssh server; and standard system utilities;
optionally web server if you also need that.

--
Have a nice day

Titus Newswanger
Curtiss WI

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Stanislav Vlasov wrote:

Or unfortunately, firmware will recognize this fact automatically and
will not allow me to load GRUB and boot The kernel:?

It's your bios settings, not Debian issue.

I do not see at all so I want to use 20 Watts energy comsumption with no need to use external monitor.
It is possible on Raspbery but I Am afraid, that mini PCS firmwares will not allow Me to boot The system at all.

Use monitor emulator. Does not need external power and does not eat 20W.

To close the loop:

HDMI: https://www.amazon.com/Headless-Display-Emulator-Headless-1920x1080-Generation/dp/B06XT1Z9TF
($7 US)

VGA: https://www.amazon.com/Headless-Display-Emulator-Headless-1920x1080-3Pack/dp/B071RR811W
($16 for a three pack)

DisplayPort: https://www.amazon.com/FUERAN-Emulator-Headless-3840x2160-HDMI-Compatible-Ethereum/dp/B06XSZR7CG/
($6 US)

I am not recommending Amazon as a vendor or these particular
devices, simply illustrating that they exist and are reasonably
priced.

-dsr-

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On Mon, 02 Jun 2025 13:57:23 +0100
"Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> wrote:

On Mon Jun 2, 2025 at 12:18 PM BST, Joe wrote:

Certainly the Raspberry Pi OS (closely based on Debian, formerly
called Raspbian) allows headless use.

The issue (for those machines that have it) is not the OS: it's the
firmware (artist formerly known as BIOS). If that does not support
headless, it doesn't matter what the OS does, it won't reach the OS.

Agreed, but I thought my post implied that the Pi hardware was OK with
it.

I mention the OS in case an alternative (there are) did demand a
monitor. Both ends of HDMI certainly know whether the other end is
connected, many sources will not power up unless they see a live
sink, and sinks will usually not fully power the interface unless they
see something connected.

--
Joe

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On 6/2/25 06:47, Joe wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jun 2025 13:57:23 +0100
"Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> wrote:

On Mon Jun 2, 2025 at 12:18 PM BST, Joe wrote:

Certainly the Raspberry Pi OS (closely based on Debian, formerly
called Raspbian) allows headless use.

The issue (for those machines that have it) is not the OS: it's the
firmware (artist formerly known as BIOS). If that does not support
headless, it doesn't matter what the OS does, it won't reach the OS.

Agreed, but I thought my post implied that the Pi hardware was OK with
it.

I mention the OS in case an alternative (there are) did demand a
monitor. Both ends of HDMI certainly know whether the other end is
connected, many sources will not power up unless they see a live
sink, and sinks will usually not fully power the interface unless they
see something connected.

The original poster said he "did not see at all" and didn't want to
waste the monitor power consumption.

Best regards,
Fred

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On 6/2/25 09:05, Fred wrote:

The original poster said he "did not see at all" and didn't want to
waste the monitor power consumption.

Sorry, I overlooked that. I was so thinking "headless server"...

In that case, if original poster's mini-pc won't boot without HDMI
monitor, maybe like others suggested, a dummy connector. A search on
places like Amazon for "HDMI dummy plug" finds a lot of options. To be
honest, I had not realized such an item existed.

--
Have a nice day

Titus Newswanger
Curtiss WI

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On Mon Jun 2, 2025 at 3:34 PM BST, Titus Newswanger wrote:

In that case, if original poster's mini-pc won't boot without HDMI
monitor, maybe like others suggested, a dummy connector. A search on
places like Amazon for "HDMI dummy plug" finds a lot of options. To be honest, I had not realized such an item existed.

I think the demand for them is driven by folks who wanted to use
consumer GPUs for bitcoin mining.

--
Please do not CC me for listmail.

👱🏻 Jonathan Dowland
✎ jmtd@debian.org
🔗 https://jmtd.net

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On 6/2/25 11:27, Jonathan Dowland wrote:

On Mon Jun 2, 2025 at 3:34 PM BST, Titus Newswanger wrote:

In that case, if original poster's mini-pc won't boot without HDMI
monitor, maybe like others suggested, a dummy connector. A search on
places like Amazon for "HDMI dummy plug" finds a lot of options. To
be honest, I had not realized such an item existed.

I think the demand for them is driven by folks who wanted to use
consumer GPUs for bitcoin mining.

That's something that has not been on my radar, my interests include cnc machining and 3d printing.  And I use a lot of bananapi-m5's which
wouldn't boot the latest Debian for arm64's 2 or 3 years ago. But the
desktop version of jammy did.  I haven't tried to cold boot with the
monitor powered down but I can reboot and watch klipper on it anywhere
else on my home net, with its 1920x1040 hdmi powered down. My printers
are not consumer grade by around $2000/copy, both bigger and 10x
faster.  Arm64 stuff drives them nicely.  Since this is OT for this
list, details on request, PM me while I'm still breathing.

Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
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soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis

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