Ulrich Mueller <ulm@gentoo.org> writes:

[[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]]

On Tue, 02 Jan 2024, Eli Schwartz wrote:

+++ b/2024-01-02-separate-usr-now-requires-an-initramfs/2024-01-02-separate-usr-now-requires-an-initramfs.txt

The short-name is rather long. GLEP 42 strongly recommends to stay below
20 characters: https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0042.html#news-item-identities

+Title: Separate /usr now requires an initramfs
+Author: Eli Schwartz <eschwartz93@gmail.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Posted: 2024-01-02
+Revision: 1
+News-Item-Format: 2.0
+Display-If-Installed: sys-apps/baselayout[split-usr]

This is not a valid header. (Format 2.0 doesn't have Content-Type.)

+In 2013, Gentoo policy determined that separate /usr without an initramfs was
+officially no longer supported:
+
+- https://projects.gentoo.org/qa/policy-guide/filesystem.html#pg0202
+- https://gitweb.gentoo.org/data/gentoo-news.git/tree/2013/2013-09-27-initramfs-required/2013-09-27-initramfs-required.en.txt?id=a79dd69b0cca439bc0c483c9193c79e0554819d0

The 2013-09-27-initramfs-required news item already said:

| Linux systems which have / and /usr on separate file systems but do not
| use an initramfs will not be supported starting on 01-Nov-2013.
|
| If you have / and /usr on separate file systems and you are not
| currently using an initramfs, you must set one up before this date.
| Otherwise, at some point on or after this date, upgrading packages
| will make your system unbootable.

It is also in the Handbook since 2014: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Kernel#Optional:_Building_an_initramfs

What has changed that we would need another news item?

The fact that we continued to support it means we had various confused
users (like in the cited bug 868306). The job was never finished, with usr-ldscript remaining pervasive in the tree, and then it appearing
supported - or at least not unsupported.

Ulrich

[[End of PGP Signed Part]]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

+++ b/2024-01-02-separate-usr-now-requires-an-initramfs/2024-01-02-separate-usr-now-requires-an-initramfs.txt

The short-name is rather long. [...]

In fact, the filename is also invalid by GLEP 42.

Sorry for missing this the first time.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQFDBAEBCAAtFiEEtDnZ1O9xIP68rzDbUYgzUIhBXi4FAmWTyagPHHVsbUBnZW50 b28ub3JnAAoJEFGIM1CIQV4ufVwH/jaSrWN4m/O8QprnfLIM5OXHw9GuIxesm2G+ 1BiF4XxI7fQWM8w0o0YJpkwovHfM7PokR+cIRUOP1s20DLUL8ltw29YVsOUmSLYy jlMBuNwoDcMaUu7rTO82r1hSUPmlwYCF+E+k86GAtplrCUsSHw/YuAcLS4IXDstY jtYO7nDH1cO5uszS/C9fg5mZqZw1NCXWE9lwqJTKhtv/uVwQbsN+qOvswlv4Ca7S BSN6zyBoM7Tz1BF2VCKIaYKFFffIzOA3Xtic/kmZddFYA8eBo1aw2XUfWxCyIOgL wPjXxLPH9tyK5PJarEZu3wonOp2ke8rg5xuH+uUEueFg+oPiQ7Y=
=jilQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 02 Jan 2024, Eli Schwartz wrote:

+++ b/2024-01-02-separate-usr-now-requires-an-initramfs/2024-01-02-separate-usr-now-requires-an-initramfs.txt

The short-name is rather long. GLEP 42 strongly recommends to stay below
20 characters:
https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0042.html#news-item-identities

+Title: Separate /usr now requires an initramfs
+Author: Eli Schwartz <eschwartz93@gmail.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Posted: 2024-01-02
+Revision: 1
+News-Item-Format: 2.0
+Display-If-Installed: sys-apps/baselayout[split-usr]

This is not a valid header. (Format 2.0 doesn't have Content-Type.)

+In 2013, Gentoo policy determined that separate /usr without an initramfs was
+officially no longer supported:
+
+- https://projects.gentoo.org/qa/policy-guide/filesystem.html#pg0202
+- https://gitweb.gentoo.org/data/gentoo-news.git/tree/2013/2013-09-27-initramfs-required/2013-09-27-initramfs-required.en.txt?id=a79dd69b0cca439bc0c483c9193c79e0554819d0

The 2013-09-27-initramfs-required news item already said:

| Linux systems which have / and /usr on separate file systems but do not
| use an initramfs will not be supported starting on 01-Nov-2013.
|
| If you have / and /usr on separate file systems and you are not
| currently using an initramfs, you must set one up before this date.
| Otherwise, at some point on or after this date, upgrading packages
| will make your system unbootable.

It is also in the Handbook since 2014: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Kernel#Optional:_Building_an_initramfs

What has changed that we would need another news item?

Ulrich

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQFDBAEBCAAtFiEEtDnZ1O9xIP68rzDbUYgzUIhBXi4FAmWTx9sPHHVsbUBnZW50 b28ub3JnAAoJEFGIM1CIQV4u+GwIAMQnjJ39G/3L2mRHCVYmFScw4hq+kuhtl8en XQF0feJm55VPxsBr2jTOO/jVZIt8ooTj2XNQMgl+vx+niIcEiVxTb3RCIO1MOx/k 1gHcq2vwdqnFjYEy0ZwYjnwhRSGTvQJx799ii9DhZTctBtEbSArYiYq+fwrmpvzQ R0Mfa+EZIUhLfTQN1Ehf5+ZZKDyT4eWwzxOjPzdHpCGMF1sCiD1iTJP8YVpSMFRF aH1kKFLjE7Mh36mVlnVdR6g2Cj0H1jwQmndeQViI7tEzJxuGCnLffA0Z4FVScqsu u5XopkyLuFPA/j7FqjnvIX7pPatRWxkXqILTJ0xSKRJ+QIz8P6E=
=7JXa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

karl@aspodata.se writes:

Eli Schwartz:
[...]

+Systems which have /usr and / on separate filesystems have always required a
+dedicated initramfs to bring up both partitions. Systems where both /usr and /
+are on the same filesystem may use an initramfs if they wish, or choose not >> +to.

[...]

Well, that is not technically correct, just have the required kernel
drivers (eg. AHCI and ext2/4) compiled in and use the same busybox
commands as in the initrd, but placed in /, to bring up the system
to the point that /usr is mounted.

I have a static dev, compiled in drivers, busybox init and mount, and separate / and /usr on a box here, works perfectly well.
Soo, add a clause about what gentoo supports out of the box and that
you can make it work if you wish.

Is there a need to state this? To me, it feels obvious, and falls into
the category of 'you can do it but don't expect much help'. As an
example of entries in this category, I used to use runit for service
management and supervision, and only used the openrc boot target.
Naturally, this worked, but it worked due to me maintaining it, and had
no Gentoo-provided support.

The same is true for many, many configurations, so I don't see the need
to state that explicitly.

If there is a general wish I can write an article about how to make
it work.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Aspö Data
Lilla Aspö 148
S-742 94 Östhammar
Sweden

--
Arsen Arsenović

--=-=-Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iOcEARYKAI8WIQT+4rPRE/wAoxYtYGFSwpQwHqLEkwUCZZPbeV8UgAAAAAAuAChp c3N1ZXItZnByQG5vdGF0aW9ucy5vcGVucGdwLmZpZnRoaG9yc2VtYW4ubmV0RkVF MkIzRDExM0ZDMDBBMzE2MkQ2MDYxNTJDMjk0MzAxRUEyQzQ5MxEcYXJzZW5AZ2Vu dG9vLm9yZwAKCRBSwpQwHqLEk2p2AP4lk7lYYIuQI5xyaYnG3JMgQE+CoXsqoZtO Bo7e+YQaFAD/eTwcq8Eh4Bu2NWP3Tm3eQ7Fzjkyv+1b2VbCi+1lLhA4=tD3s
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Eli Schwartz:
[...]

+Systems which have /usr and / on separate filesystems have always required a +dedicated initramfs to bring up both partitions. Systems where both /usr and /
+are on the same filesystem may use an initramfs if they wish, or choose not +to.

[...]

Well, that is not technically correct, just have the required kernel
drivers (eg. AHCI and ext2/4) compiled in and use the same busybox
commands as in the initrd, but placed in /, to bring up the system
to the point that /usr is mounted.

I have a static dev, compiled in drivers, busybox init and mount, and
separate / and /usr on a box here, works perfectly well.
Soo, add a clause about what gentoo supports out of the box and that
you can make it work if you wish.
If there is a general wish I can write an article about how to make
it work.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Aspö Data
Lilla Aspö 148
S-742 94 Östhammar
Sweden

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hello Eli,

Maybe add also a link to:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Early_Userspace_Mounting

(IMHO this article is a better starting point than https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Custom_Initramfs )

Many Greetings,
Peter

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Arsen::

karl@aspodata.se writes:

Eli Schwartz:

...

+Systems which have /usr and / on separate filesystems have always required a
+dedicated initramfs to bring up both partitions.

...

Is there a need to state this?

...

"Always required" is false.
Not supported by gentoo is correct.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)