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  • [gentoo-dev] Re: Update on the 23.0 profiles

    From Madhu@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 7 14:40:02 2024
    Thanks for the update and the work on the 23.0 profiles. :)
    Most 17.x profiles have been downgraded to "exp".
    I could imagine there is a reason to downgrade those back to 'exp',
    could you elaborate a bit on that?

    Isn't it bit strange that a 'stable' profiles gets downgraded back to
    'exp'? Then again, I am not sure about the implications of this nor
    about the rationale behind it.

    However, I also notice that there is a outstanding PR that reverts
    that [1]. Maybe we should introduce a new state 'oldstable' or so?

    I see no way of migrating to 23.0 profile because of not-recompilable
    packages that are installed (over 4 years) which block --emptytree,
    and do not wish to be forced to migrate to merged-usr on an openrc box
    without a compelling need (on principle).

    Will patching back the 17.0 profile files into the portage tree if and
    when they are removed work?

    Are there any options at all for this situation (like freezing the the
    last supported tree protecting it from emerge-syncs, and using an
    overlay for further updates?)

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  • From Andreas K. Huettel@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 7 15:27:42 2024
    To: flow@gentoo.org (Florian Schmaus)

    I see no way of migrating to 23.0 profile because of not-recompilable packages that are installed (over 4 years) which block --emptytree,
    and do not wish to be forced to migrate to merged-usr on an openrc box without a compelling need (on principle).

    That sounds a bit like self-inflicted pain.

    Will patching back the 17.0 profile files into the portage tree if and
    when they are removed work?

    Unknown.

    Are there any options at all for this situation (like freezing the the
    last supported tree protecting it from emerge-syncs, and using an
    overlay for further updates?)

    You can try to just skip these packages (with --exclude) during the
    "emerge --emptytree ..." step. It should work, but no guarantees given.

    --
    Andreas K. Hüttel
    dilfridge@gentoo.org
    Gentoo Linux developer
    (council, toolchain, base-system, perl, libreoffice)

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  • From Duncan@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 8 08:50:01 2024
    Andreas K. Huettel posted on Sun, 07 Apr 2024 15:07:01 +0200 as excerpted:

    Am Sonntag, 7. April 2024, 14:51:55 CEST schrieb Michael Orlitzky:

    [USE="lzma zstd" in 23.0 profiles]

    [R]emarkably bad timing. How it looks: Gentoo's response to the xz
    incident is to have me rebuild my entire system with everything that
    could possibly be linked to liblzma, linked to liblzma. Even on the
    hardened profiles, and with no easy way to prevent it.

    Agreed. Timing is ... unfortunate, making for absolutely terrible
    appearances. Tho for better or worse Gentoo will likely avoid the bad
    press Arch or the the big guys would get for such a play as we're simply
    not mainline enough any longer (Arch having eclipsed us as "the techie
    distro" in the press years ago now).

    Well, we're now working with the best-audited compression library ever,
    I guess.

    Also agreed...

    tl;dr can we turn them back off in the profile? In any scenario where
    they are beneficial, there's a better place to put them.

    That's the core operational debate. Perhaps better to debate zstd and
    lzma separately due to timing and relative ease (see below).

    Easily doable with lzma, if there is consensus for it.

    Given lzma's easy, I'd vote for the revert, if only due to the unfortunate timing. It can always be reconsidered later, even if for pragmatic
    reasons "later" ends up being the /next/ profile upgrade, presumably some
    years away.

    But with the 17 downgrade to exp (if not deprecated yet), if we're
    changing it (and not temporarily reverting the 17 exp) it should be ASAP!

    Slightly more complex for zstd since this affects gcc and binutils.
    Still doable though.

    For zstad I'd keep as-is because it's both more difficult and lacks the
    direct timing issues.

    TLDR stop!

    FWIW, no effect either way here/personally, because I configured portage
    to ignore profile USE flags (as well as IUSE-defaults) years ago, in large
    part precisely /because/ of the undesired USE-flag churn. And in general
    it has made me a /much/ happier gentooer, because USE-flag no longer
    blindly toggle without my having to go unduly out of my way to find out
    why. (I already review the git log when a USE flag suddenly (dis)?
    appears, unless it's blindingly obvious why without checking the log.)

    The one thing I wish I had was an indication of IUSE-defaults for changes
    on upgrades and for new packages. Sure I can (and do) grep for IUSE if I
    have reason to wonder (more frequently for new packages if I don't know
    whether I want something enabled or not), but I imagine I miss most of the on-upgrade ISUE-default-changes as unlike the flag entirely (dis)?
    appearing or (un)masking (which is still active from the profile) there's nothing alerting me to IUSE-default changes.

    --
    Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
    "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
    and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman

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