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  • Notion of stable depgraph vs stable keywords (Re: [gentoo-dev] Arch Sta

    From Sam James@21:1/5 to Arthur Zamarin on Wed Jun 26 02:10:02 2024
    Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org> writes:

    Hi all, this will be a long mail, and might be confusing, I'll try to organize it, but this is a mess, so bear with me.

    Absolutely - thanks for doing this. I'm going to split my replies with
    alt subject to help keep it organised.


    As you all know, Gentoo supports many various arches, in various degrees (stable, dev, exp). Let me explain those 3 statuses fast:

    * stable arch - meaning we have stable profile for this arch, and stable keywords across base-system + varying degree of seriousness. We stable
    stuff after ~30 days in tree, and are mostly happy. For example the well known and common amd64 arch.

    This mixes the notion of keywords vs profiles.

    You can have a stable profile in profiles.desc without any stable
    keywords at all.

    'stable' in profiles.desc means we require CI to pass for its depgraph consistency. 'dev' means we warn on it. 'exp' means it doesn't even show
    up unless you opt-in with pkgcheck etc.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Duncan@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 28 06:20:01 2024
    Sam James posted on Wed, 26 Jun 2024 01:06:12 +0100 as excerpted:

    Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org> writes:

    As you all know, Gentoo supports many various arches, in various
    degrees (stable, dev, exp). Let me explain those 3 statuses fast:

    * stable arch - meaning we have stable profile for this arch, and
    stable keywords across base-system + varying degree of seriousness. We
    stable stuff after ~30 days in tree, and are mostly happy. For example
    the well known and common amd64 arch.

    This mixes the notion of keywords vs profiles.

    You can have a stable profile in profiles.desc without any stable
    keywords at all.

    'stable' in profiles.desc means we require CI to pass for its depgraph consistency. 'dev' means we warn on it. 'exp' means it doesn't even show
    up unless you opt-in with pkgcheck etc.

    While that may clear things up from a developer perspective, it's still confusing from a user perspective (even a long-time user like me who religiously follows this list, tho being on amd64 personally with no
    question on it staying stable it doesn't really affect me personally at
    this time... tho not /too/ long ago I was still running a 32-bit-only atom netbook (tho only upgraded perhaps every year or two... which always made
    it difficult but possible with some time and patience) so it /could/ still affect me and I'm concerned about others still affected).

    Taking the one most likely to affect the greatest number of users as an example, what practical effects would dropping x86 to dev (I'm assuming no one's suggesting dropping it straight to experimental) have on remaining
    x86 users?

    How would it differ if they're already running ~x86 vs stable x86
    (keywording), assuming the same currently stable x86 profile?

    And (again from a user perspective) how does dropping x86 to dev differ
    from the mentioned apparently worse alternative, mass dekeywording?

    --
    Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
    "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
    and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman

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  • From Sam James@21:1/5 to Duncan on Fri Jun 28 07:20:01 2024
    Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> writes:

    Sam James posted on Wed, 26 Jun 2024 01:06:12 +0100 as excerpted:

    Arthur Zamarin <arthurzam@gentoo.org> writes:

    As you all know, Gentoo supports many various arches, in various
    degrees (stable, dev, exp). Let me explain those 3 statuses fast:

    * stable arch - meaning we have stable profile for this arch, and
    stable keywords across base-system + varying degree of seriousness. We
    stable stuff after ~30 days in tree, and are mostly happy. For example
    the well known and common amd64 arch.

    This mixes the notion of keywords vs profiles.

    You can have a stable profile in profiles.desc without any stable
    keywords at all.

    'stable' in profiles.desc means we require CI to pass for its depgraph
    consistency. 'dev' means we warn on it. 'exp' means it doesn't even show
    up unless you opt-in with pkgcheck etc.

    While that may clear things up from a developer perspective,

    The discussion we're currently having *is* from a developer perspective
    where I'm trying to clarify something Arthur said for the purposes of
    further discussion.


    How would it differ if they're already running ~x86 vs stable x86 (keywording), assuming the same currently stable x86 profile?

    And (again from a user perspective) how does dropping x86 to dev differ
    from the mentioned apparently worse alternative, mass dekeywording?

    An inconsistent depgraph is a very poor experience for users because
    there's no guarantee emerge can resolve things.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)