• Things that, supposedly, "average" people waste money on

    From Lenona@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 11 19:58:19 2024
    The implication,from the title, is that an awful lot of people spend
    money on MOST of these things - or even all of them.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/cutting-out-these-24-expenses-will-save-you-over-20-000-a-year/ss-AA13bRwT?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=b6bbbc9b81c140c994124a643d024772&ei=118#image=25

    Well, I don't have any of these expenses. Neither did one or two people
    in the comments.

    But I was appalled at the number of whiners in the comments. As if one
    can't possibly be happy without spending money on SHORT-term
    luxuries...pretty much every day.

    The trouble with short-term luxuries, after all, is that they're soon forgotten. (And even long-term luxuries - such as a backyard swimming
    pool - can get boring pretty soon.) When it comes to, say, eating out,
    the more rare that is, the more I enjoy it. Besides, even a cheap
    restaurant meal costs at LEAST five times what eating at home would - if
    you know how to shop the sales. So unless you're eating with people you
    seldom see, how is constantly eating at restaurants worthwhile, in the
    long run?

    Also, it's pathetic the way Americans, especially, have swallowed the
    idea that free (or cheap) activities are for losers - or that fun isn't
    fun unless it costs money. OR that expensive, passive entertainment is
    somehow better than, say, climbing a mountain. (Watching a concert or a
    ball game can easily cost hundreds more than doing something active.)

    Too many PARENTS have swallowed those false ideas, which means their
    kids will likely swallow them as well.

    And whatever happened to getting free books and movies from the library
    - or HOBBIES?

    Sigh.

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  • From Lenona@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Thu Jun 13 15:47:19 2024
    The Real Bev wrote:


    My gym membership is free and I go 3x/week.


    How did you get it for free?



    Hey, it keeps the economy running!


    I assume you know that for thousands of years, economies were NOT based
    on convincing ordinary people to buy things they didn't even really want
    that much. Personal frugality was the order of the day until the early
    20th century or so.

    It seems to me we could do that again, if we cared enough.


    One thing I don't quite get, though, is what someone once said - that in
    the 19th century, living was cheap and goods were expensive, but now
    it's the other way around. I mean, MAYBE housing, education, and medical
    care used to be "cheap" - but was anything else?

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  • From Lenona@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Fri Jun 21 15:56:35 2024
    The Real Bev wrote:

    On 6/13/24 8:47 AM, Lenona wrote:


    I assume you know that for thousands of years, economies were NOT based
    on convincing ordinary people to buy things they didn't even really
    want
    that much. Personal frugality was the order of the day until the early
    20th century or so.

    No, based on royalty and the aristocracy buying things THEY didn't even

    really need. All things considered, I think the stuff they bought
    lasts

    longer than the stuff that poor people buy and is much prettier.


    Why do you think I said "ordinary people"?

    After all, peasants HAD to be frugal in order to pay their horrific
    taxes - and feed their inevitably growing families. Whereas today, at
    least in the U.S., the AVERAGE household has about $6,000 in credit card
    debt. That presumably includes the working classes - and a lot of that
    debt has nothing to do with necessities.

    For the record, historian David M. Tucker was the one who spelled out
    the theory I mentioned above, in his 1990 book: "The Decline of Thrift
    in America: Our Cultural Shift from Saving to Spending."

    From Amazon:

    "From the beginning of our nation's history, with the Puritan and
    Protestant work ethics, through the 1950s, thrift was considered an
    important virtue, both with regard to the moral fiber of the country and
    as a support for its continuing economic well-being. The idea that
    deferring immediate pleasures to accumulate wealth for increased future
    value was considered virtuous, not just by the citizens but by
    politicians and the government as well. In this fascinating history of
    thrift, David Tucker describes how, after the Eisenhower period, thrift
    became an outdated, outmoded concept, and how the abandonment of thrift
    is in large part responsible for our current economic position.

    "Tucker begins his study by tracing the thrift culture in which America
    was born, which continued its dominance for more than a century. The
    notion that frugality was the best means for promoting the general
    welfare remained unchanged until the late nineteenth century, when an
    angry protest against more thrifty Chinese immigrants led to a reversal
    in cultural attitudes. A new ideal of a higher standard of
    living--supported by spending, consumption, and debt-- undercut the old
    virtue of thrift. Throughout the twentieth century, advertising,
    consumer credit, and a self-indulgent psychology have eroded the
    practice of frugality. In addition to this history, Tucker explores the
    dangers of the thriftless society, comparing America's current position
    to the economic rise and decline of the United Kingdom. With a savings
    rate that has fallen from 15 percent to 4 percent, and a government that routinely appropriates more than 100 percent of tax revenues, Tucker
    sees a moral deficiency in Americans. Thrift is no obsolescent virtue,
    he observes, if the nation is concerned with preserving a standard of
    living. This unique history and commentary will be a useful supplement
    to courses in current affairs, American history, and economics, as well
    as a significant addition to college, university, and public
    libraries."




    Btw, I thought of ONE other thing that used to be cheap - live
    entertainment, such as circuses and similar outings. When it comes to
    amusement park rides and food at county fairs, at least, those were
    cheap as late as 1952, if "Charlotte's Web" is any indication. That is,
    the kids' dad gives them some cash and says: "And remember, the money
    has to last ALL DAY. Don't spend it all the first few minutes."

    So how much money could plausibly cover "all day"?

    70 cents each. No kidding.

    I didn't have to check any online inflation calculators to know that
    inflation wasn't the only factor in that case.

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  • From Lenona@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 24 15:31:35 2024
    I thought of one other thing that was definitely cheaper, well into the
    20th century - hired help.

    I can't find the exact passage from the Pulitzer-winning Alison Lurie,
    but in one of her books on children's literature, she mentions the three servants in "Mary Poppins Comes Back" and explains "the Bankses are middle-class, but this is 1935."

    And in the 1959 movie "Imitation of Life" (which starts in 1947) Lora
    (played by Lana Turner), is a widowed mother and unemployed actress, but
    she takes in a maid as a favor to her - and Lora doesn't even hesitate
    to reveal to her future employer(?) that she can afford one! IIRC. So
    that would suggest that plenty - most? - middle-class families had
    regular domestic help.


    A couple of old threads:


    "Question on 'full time domestics' " (from alt.home.cleaning, 2023) https://groups.google.com/g/alt.home.cleaning/c/Gn4fYKmHiRQ/m/b-0hfoQiBwAJ


    From 1999: "Keeping up with 19th-century Joneses" https://groups.google.com/g/misc.consumers.frugal-living/c/722GjxoPMRY/m/9pADfgWrjuEJ

    Most of the first post was by Wendy, not by me - I was quoting her.

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