• Israel-Gaza Conflict

    From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 7 21:59:42 2023
    The Associated Press
    Hamas surprise attack out of Gaza stuns Israel and leaves hundreds
    dead in fighting, retaliation

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 8 11:01:55 2023
    The number of murdered has risen to 600, wounded to 2,000, and
    abducted 100. This far exceeds the worst day of the Yom Kippur war
    (317 killed on Oct. 7, 1973), making it the blackest single day in the
    history of Israel. As in 1973, the political reckoning will change
    Israel.
    https://twitter.com/Martin_Kramer/status/1710984136821715004


    A high-level Hamas delegation travelled to Moscow twice last year to
    meet with Russian Foreign Affairs Minister Sergei Lavrov.

    They promised Russia that they would "work to weaken the West"

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1710579740287918548

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 8 19:47:46 2023
    As false information about the rapidly changing war between Gaza Strip militants and Israel proliferated on the social media platform X over
    the weekend, owner Elon Musk personally recommended that users follow
    accounts notorious for promoting lies.

    https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1711137672150892926

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 8 19:45:30 2023
    Eyewitness Account of the Rave Massacre: Scenes of young women raped
    next to the dead bodies of their friends.

    https://twitter.com/tabletmag/status/1711121770420314410

    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/israel-music-festival-massacre-eyewitness-account

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 9 06:00:58 2023
    At least 4 Americans killed in Israel attacks with death toll expected
    to rise, Schumer says

    Eyewitness News ABC7NY
    More than 1,000 dead after Hamas attack, Israel's response

    PBS NewsHour
    Deaths mount as Israel launches large-scale retaliation against Hamas
    in Gaza

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 9 11:27:48 2023
    The scale of terror and brutality against #Israel and its people is a
    turning point.

    There can be no business as usual.

    As the biggest donor of the Palestinians, the European Commission is
    putting its full development portfolio under review, worth a total of
    EUR 691m


    All payments immediately suspended.
    All projects put under review.
    All new budget proposals, incl. for 2023 postponed until further
    notice.
    Comprehensive assessment of the whole portfolio.

    https://twitter.com/OliverVarhelyi/status/1711362068056613294

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  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@21:1/5 to JAB on Mon Oct 9 17:47:20 2023
    On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 11:27:48 -0500
    JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

    The scale of terror and brutality against #Israel and its people is a
    turning point.

    There can be no business as usual.

    As the biggest donor of the Palestinians, the European Commission is
    putting its full development portfolio under review, worth a total of
    EUR 691m


    All payments immediately suspended.
    All projects put under review.
    All new budget proposals, incl. for 2023 postponed until further
    notice.
    Comprehensive assessment of the whole portfolio.

    https://twitter.com/OliverVarhelyi/status/1711362068056613294


    Putin's chuckling mightily, I imagine.

    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 9 21:09:33 2023
    On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 17:47:20 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
    wrote:

    Putin's chuckling mightily, I imagine.

    About what...this?

    Reuters is reporting that:

    Hamas official said they are open to discussions over a truce with
    Israel.

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  • From randymon@21:1/5 to JAB on Tue Oct 10 12:11:25 2023
    On 2023-10-10, JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 17:47:20 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
    wrote:

    Putin's chuckling mightily, I imagine.

    About what...this?

    Reuters is reporting that:

    Hamas official said they are open to discussions over a truce with Israel.

    Not likely that will happen. I expect a few weeks from now the Gaza
    Strip will be a parking lot. Can't imagine what the strategy was here,
    but Palestine has just given Israel the excuse they've been waiting for.

    Good luck with that truce.

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to randymon@tilde.club on Tue Oct 10 12:16:21 2023
    On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:11:25 -0000 (UTC), randymon
    <randymon@tilde.club> wrote:

    Hamas official said they are open to discussions over a truce with
    Israel.

    Not likely that will happen.

    Here's news byte

    Moussa Abu Marzouk told Al Jazeera in a phone interview that Hamas was
    open to "something of that sort" and "all political dialogues" when
    asked whether the Islamist group is willing to discuss a possible
    ceasefire. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-official-says-group-is-open-discussions-over-truce-with-israel-2023-10-09/

    By making this offer, Hamas is implicitly suggesting they have the
    upper hand here, and Israel is subordinate.

    RE: "the Islamist group is willing to discuss a possible ceasefire."

    Highly unlikely for such an event to happen....

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 10 21:22:56 2023
    Israel Defense Forces @IDF

    The first plane carrying U.S. armaments has since arrived at the
    Nevatim Airbase in southern Israel this evening.

    The cooperation between our militaries is a key part of ensuring
    regional security and stability in times of war.

    https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1711894809936367860

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to randymon@tilde.club on Tue Oct 10 22:02:40 2023
    On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:11:25 -0000 (UTC), randymon
    <randymon@tilde.club> wrote:

    I expect a few weeks from now the Gaza
    Strip will be a parking lot.

    Gaza is under complete lockdown. No one comes. No one leaves. The
    border is locked down. All passages are closed.

    We have shut down their electricity. We have cleaned our towns and
    cities of any terrorists.

    https://twitter.com/HilzFuld/status/1711300093263991059

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 11 05:59:00 2023
    ABC News
    Israel-Hamas conflict live: Death toll passes 2,000 as Australia
    organises repatriation flights from Friday


    9News
    Live updates: Federal government launches repatriation flights to
    bring Australians home from Israel; Australian grandmother killed in
    Israel conflict; Hamas accused of ISIS-style massacres; Death toll
    tops 2000

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to randymon@tilde.club on Wed Oct 11 06:03:29 2023
    On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:11:25 -0000 (UTC), randymon
    <randymon@tilde.club> wrote:

    Can't imagine what the strategy was here,

    Considering outsiders from Israel were killed, there is no way Hamas
    can get respect.




    Live updates: Federal government launches repatriation flights to
    bring Australians home from Israel; Australian grandmother killed in
    Israel conflict; Hamas accused of ISIS-style massacres; Death toll
    tops 2000

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to randymon@tilde.club on Wed Oct 11 10:51:51 2023
    On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:11:25 -0000 (UTC), randymon
    <randymon@tilde.club> wrote:

    Can't imagine what the strategy was here,

    On Israel's "plan," I suspect this was already planned:

    "It has cut off electricity, food and fuel supplies." https://www.npr.org/2023/10/11/1204923717/israel-gaza-hamas-palestinian-war

    Hamas planned to use hostages for negotiation, but if Israel needs to
    kill them, I suspect it will be done.

    Iran's chief bullshitter has given his 'blessings' to Hamas.

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  • From Retrograde@21:1/5 to JAB on Wed Oct 11 17:51:15 2023
    On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:51:51 -0500
    JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

    Hamas planned to use hostages for negotiation, but if Israel needs to
    kill them, I suspect it will be done.

    Iran's chief bullshitter has given his 'blessings' to Hamas.

    Not sure, but I suspect those hostages are going to die. Men, women,
    children.

    Iran's blessings are like American politician "thoughts and prayers."

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to fungus@amongus.com.invalid on Wed Oct 11 20:24:30 2023
    On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 17:51:15 -0400, Retrograde
    <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> wrote:

    Not sure, but I suspect those hostages are going to die. Men, women, >children.

    Hamas says it will film the execution of hostages and post the videos
    online

    https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1711428416455500131


    Hamas says it will start executing hostages one by one in response to
    Israeli airstrikes
    https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1711434700286251431

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  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to JAB on Thu Oct 12 00:02:39 2023
    On 10/11/2023 7:03 AM, JAB wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:11:25 -0000 (UTC), randymon
    <randymon@tilde.club> wrote:
    Can't imagine what the strategy was here,

    Considering outsiders from Israel were killed, there is no way Hamas
    can get respect.

    Live updates: Federal government launches repatriation flights to
    bring Australians home from Israel; Australian grandmother killed in
    Israel conflict; Hamas accused of ISIS-style massacres; Death toll
    tops 2000

    I'm sure glad that I don't live in Israel. Constant violence and
    death... What a horrible place to be stuck.

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to fungus@amongus.com.invalid on Thu Oct 12 05:30:48 2023
    On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 17:51:15 -0400, Retrograde
    <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> wrote:

    those hostages are going to die

    "No water or fuel" for Gaza until captives freed....

    Interesting twist...both sides with their demands.
    =================

    On another note, I found this opinion off the rails ("strategize every
    possible scenario"):

    "I don't think anyone really knows what the endgame is at the moment,"
    said Tahani Mustafa, a Palestinian analyst at the Crisis Group, an international think tank. But given the amount of planning involved in
    the assault, "it's difficult to imagine they haven't tried to
    strategize every possible scenario." https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-conflict-endgame-1bfcc187d826596e78090ec6cbf6516c

    RE: strategize every possible scenario

    Without water, fuel, & electricity???

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to michael.trew@att.net on Thu Oct 12 05:21:02 2023
    On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 00:02:39 -0400, Michael Trew
    <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:

    Israel. Constant violence and death... ...

    But it has two seasons ("cool, rainy winter (October-April) and a dry,
    hot summer (May-September)").

    Compared to US, it would appear to be a safer place to live


    Crime Stats: compare key data on Israel & United States

    https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Israel/United-States/Crime

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  • From Retrograde@21:1/5 to JAB on Thu Oct 12 09:25:39 2023
    On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 20:24:30 -0500
    JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

    Hamas says it will start executing hostages one by one in response to
    Israeli airstrikes
    https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1711434700286251431

    In response to this post, and the other where some CNN dumbass suggests
    Hamas has strategized every possible scenario. I'm not so sure.

    Every broadcast execution will turn the world against Palestine and
    increase support for Israel.

    This is quite possibly the worst strategy ever in the history of
    humankind. It seems to me Hamas didn't think this through AT ALL. Or
    maybe their strategy is some kind of Allah intervention.

    Note even Egypt hasn't opened a humanitarian corridor.

    I expect Israel to run roughshod over Gaza for weeks or months.

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  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@21:1/5 to Michael Trew on Thu Oct 12 16:53:24 2023
    On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 00:02:39 -0400
    Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> wrote:

    On 10/11/2023 7:03 AM, JAB wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:11:25 -0000 (UTC), randymon
    <randymon@tilde.club> wrote:
    Can't imagine what the strategy was here,

    Considering outsiders from Israel were killed, there is no way Hamas
    can get respect.

    Live updates: Federal government launches repatriation flights to
    bring Australians home from Israel; Australian grandmother killed in
    Israel conflict; Hamas accused of ISIS-style massacres; Death toll
    tops 2000

    I'm sure glad that I don't live in Israel. Constant violence and
    death... What a horrible place to be stuck.


    ITYM Gaza.

    or is this a whoosh?


    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to fungus@amongus.com.invalid on Thu Oct 12 11:06:01 2023
    On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 09:25:39 -0400, Retrograde
    <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> wrote:

    Every broadcast execution will turn the world
    against Palestine and increase support for Israel.

    I suspect their minds are too full of hate to fully evaluate
    consequences.

    I cited this below, but this represents illogical thinking. Israel is
    fully armed with modern tech, and expecting them to submit is false
    reasoning (apparently, they thought having hostages was a good idea).


    Moussa Abu Marzouk told Al Jazeera in a phone interview that Hamas was
    open to "something of that sort" and "all political dialogues" when
    asked whether the Islamist group is willing to discuss a possible
    ceasefire. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-official-says-group-is-open-discussions-over-truce-with-israel-2023-10-09/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Retrograde@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 12 13:03:05 2023
    On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 11:06:01 -0500
    JAB <here@is.invalid> wrote:

    Evidence of some atrocities https://nypost.com/2023/10/12/netanyahu-claims-hamas-burned-alive-babies-says-he-showed-pics-to-blinken/

    Hezbollah in Lebanon threatening to jump in the fray on the side of
    Palestine if Israel crosses one of three "red line" limits Israel will
    almost certainly cross immediately:

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/10/11/after-hamas-attack-hezbollah-threatens-escalation-in-northern-israel_6165388_4.html

    1. If Israel invades Gaza or cuts head off of Hamas.
    2. If Palestinians are forced into exile
    3. If sacred Palestinian religious sites are hit

    I'd suspect all three of those things have already happened. Seems
    like this is going to escalate, and no surprise.

    This is all horrific.

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  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to John on Fri Oct 13 11:38:05 2023
    On 10/12/2023 11:53 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 00:02:39 -0400
    Michael Trew<michael.trew@att.net> wrote:
    On 10/11/2023 7:03 AM, JAB wrote:

    Live updates: Federal government launches repatriation flights to
    bring Australians home from Israel; Australian grandmother killed in
    Israel conflict; Hamas accused of ISIS-style massacres; Death toll
    tops 2000

    I'm sure glad that I don't live in Israel. Constant violence and
    death... What a horrible place to be stuck.

    ITYM Gaza.

    ...Either or. At any rate, compare to Europe, historically, I'm very
    glad to live in the states, where we almost never see an actual invasion
    on our land.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From danny burstein@21:1/5 to Michael Trew on Fri Oct 13 15:39:41 2023
    In <rvdWM.78676$2fS.18530@fx16.iad> Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> writes:

    [snip]

    ...Either or. At any rate, compare to Europe, historically, I'm very
    glad to live in the states, where we almost never see an actual invasion
    on our land.

    And when one did occur, those brave teenagers (mmm, Jennifer Grey...)
    fought them off.

    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    dannyb@panix.com
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@21:1/5 to danny burstein on Fri Oct 13 17:29:31 2023
    On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 15:39:41 -0000 (UTC)
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

    In <rvdWM.78676$2fS.18530@fx16.iad> Michael Trew <michael.trew@att.net> writes:

    [snip]

    ...Either or. At any rate, compare to Europe, historically, I'm very
    glad to live in the states, where we almost never see an actual invasion
    on our land.

    Eh? IIRC Native Americans aren't back in control yet.
    History goes back a bit.

    And when one did occur, those brave teenagers (mmm, Jennifer Grey...)
    fought them off.


    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to admin@127.0.0.1 on Fri Oct 13 12:15:22 2023
    On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 17:29:31 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
    <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

    IIRC Native Americans aren't back in control yet.

    You didn't hear the rest of this story? Yeah, those "freedom
    fighters" from mostly England came and "civilized" them savages, who
    were having turf wars :-)
    -----------------

    Native American Wars.

    This essay consists of three articles that examine different aspects
    of Native American wars and warfare. Warfare in Native American
    Societies discusses the changing nature of organized armed conflict in disparate Native American societies. Wars Among Native Americans
    examines warfare between different Indian nations before and after
    contact with Euro-Americans. Wars Between Native Americans and
    Europeans and Euro-Americans traces the history of warfare between
    Indians and European nations, American colonies and states, and the
    United States.

    https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/acref/9780195071986.001.0001/acref-9780195071986-e-0618

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  • From Michael Trew@21:1/5 to John on Fri Oct 13 23:56:51 2023
    On 10/13/2023 12:29 PM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
    On Fri, 13 Oct 2023 15:39:41 -0000 (UTC)
    danny burstein<dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

    In<rvdWM.78676$2fS.18530@fx16.iad> Michael Trew<michael.trew@att.net> writes:

    [snip]

    ...Either or. At any rate, compare to Europe, historically, I'm very
    glad to live in the states, where we almost never see an actual invasion >>> on our land.

    Eh? IIRC Native Americans aren't back in control yet.
    History goes back a bit.

    I said that I'm glad to live in the United States. I didn't say that I
    wish I could have lived in North America before/during European
    Colonists all but destroying the local civilizations. It seems that
    Europeans have always been problematic.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to fungus@amongus.com.invalid on Thu Oct 26 19:15:55 2023
    On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 17:51:15 -0400, Retrograde
    <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> wrote:

    Not sure, but I suspect those hostages are going to die. Men, women, >children.

    Hamas claims at least 50 hostages killed in Israeli airstrikes on Gaza

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  • From Blueshirt@21:1/5 to JAB on Fri Oct 27 03:07:13 2023
    JAB wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 17:51:15 -0400, Retrograde
    <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> wrote:

    Not sure, but I suspect those hostages are going to die. Men, women, children.

    Hamas claims at least 50 hostages killed in Israeli airstrikes on Gaza

    Hamas claims a lot of things, but if they told me the sky was blue I'd
    still have to look up!

    If Hamas hadn't have kidnapped people from Israel to use as hostages then
    they couldn't be killed in any air-strikes so it's clear who is
    responsible should they all die.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to blueshirt@indigo.news on Thu Oct 26 20:17:23 2023
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 03:07:13 +0200, "Blueshirt"
    <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:

    Hamas

    Israel is "remodeling" Gaza's landscape, and I suspect Hamas didn't
    consider this as a response.

    I suspected those hostages had a slim chance of surviving.

    There was a pole recently, and Palestinians don't support Hamas.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 29 22:01:50 2023
    On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 17:47:20 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
    wrote:

    Putin's chuckling mightily, I imagine.

    Hundreds storm airport in Russia in antisemitic riot over arrival of
    plane from Israel

    Hundreds of people stormed into the main airport in Russia's Dagestan
    region and onto the landing field Sunday, chanting antisemitic slogans
    and seeking passengers arriving on a flight from Tel Aviv, Israel,
    Russian news agencies and social media reported.
    ...
    ...
    "We urge residents of the republic to treat the current situation in
    the world with understanding. Federal authorities and international organizations are making every effort to bring about a ceasefire
    against Gaza civilians ... we urge residents of the republic not to
    succumb to the provocations of destructive groups and not to create
    panic in society," the Dagestani government wrote on Telegram.
    ...
    ...
    Russia's civilian aviation agency, Rosaviatsia, later reported that
    the airfield had been cleared, but that the airport would remain
    closed to incoming aircraft until Nov. 6.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-dagestan-tel-aviv-flight-airport-makhachkala-fa06b16131ed41c0c789981cdcaac84f

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  • From Blueshirt@21:1/5 to JAB on Mon Oct 30 08:26:22 2023
    JAB wrote:

    Hundreds storm airport in Russia in antisemitic riot over arrival of
    plane from Israel

    Spontaneous acts of the general public or paid agitators?

    You wouldn't think Russia was the sort of place where people do much
    storming of anything off their own back!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 30 11:47:24 2023
    On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 17:47:20 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
    wrote:

    Putin's chuckling mightily, I imagine.


    Putin calls meeting after mob storms Dagestan airport looking for
    Israelis on jet from Tel Aviv

    Russian President Vladimir Putin called a meeting of security and law enforcement officials Monday, the day after a mob stormed the airport
    in the southern region of Dagestan after a flight from Israel landed
    there.

    https://apnews.com/article/russia-dagestan-tel-aviv-flight-airport-makhachkala-fa06b16131ed41c0c789981cdcaac84f

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Retrograde@21:1/5 to Blueshirt on Mon Oct 30 17:03:41 2023
    On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 08:26:22 +0100
    "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:

    JAB wrote:

    Hundreds storm airport in Russia in antisemitic riot over arrival of
    plane from Israel

    Spontaneous acts of the general public or paid agitators?

    You wouldn't think Russia was the sort of place where people do much
    storming of anything off their own back!

    Huh, I hadn't thought of that but you raise a good point. Although I
    think antisemitism is often easy to conjure up in Russia and elsewhere.

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