• GOP "racists"

    From JAB@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 28 12:11:18 2024
    Musk pledges "war" to protect H-1B visas, calls some GOP "racists" =================

    Ah yes, Musky wants some cheap labor, who will work long hours, and
    serves his interest.

    GOP "racists"

    Trump is a racist...WTF is he talking about.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to JAB on Sun Dec 29 12:49:41 2024
    On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, JAB wrote:

    Musk pledges "war" to protect H-1B visas, calls some GOP "racists" =================

    Ah yes, Musky wants some cheap labor, who will work long hours, and
    serves his interest.

    This is the truth! I had one for a while, and was paid the grand sum of
    20k USD per year for my IT job. The owner sold the company for a billion dollars. ;)

    But being the capitalist that I am, I do not complain. It was a free and voluntary transaction and as soon as I could I quit and planned to move to Boston to a job with the grand salary of 60k USD! Sadly they lost my visa application, so in the end I had to return home.

    But all turned out alright in the end. =)

    GOP "racists"

    Trump is a racist...WTF is he talking about.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Sun Dec 29 09:16:47 2024
    On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 12:49:41 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    Musk pledges "war" to protect H-1B visas, calls some GOP "racists"
    =================

    Ah yes, Musky wants some cheap labor, who will work long hours, and
    serves his interest.

    This is the truth!

    During US's plantation days, more slaves were wanted, which enriched
    the slave owners.

    In this tech world, I do believe there is more work for programmers,
    but I believe in the next 100 years, there will not be much change
    experienced when compared to the last 100 years, where change (new
    products and services) happened on a large scale.

    H-1B visas are not about enriching the US, but rather enriching the
    tech industry. And after the programming work is done, Musky, et.
    al., will shit can them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to JAB on Mon Dec 30 13:36:29 2024
    On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, JAB wrote:

    On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 12:49:41 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    Musk pledges "war" to protect H-1B visas, calls some GOP "racists"
    =================

    Ah yes, Musky wants some cheap labor, who will work long hours, and
    serves his interest.

    This is the truth!

    During US's plantation days, more slaves were wanted, which enriched
    the slave owners.

    There are advanced and profound economic papers that prove that the slave owners would in fact be better off without slaves, and with workers. See mises.org for the details.

    In this tech world, I do believe there is more work for programmers,
    but I believe in the next 100 years, there will not be much change experienced when compared to the last 100 years, where change (new
    products and services) happened on a large scale.

    H-1B visas are not about enriching the US, but rather enriching the
    tech industry. And after the programming work is done, Musky, et.
    al., will shit can them.

    This is not correct! I've been on the receiving end of H1-B and I like
    them! I was never forced to work under H-1B condition, and would I have
    wanted, they would have served as an important entry point into the US for
    me. Removing that way, will make a lot of IT-workers worse off in the long
    run.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Mon Dec 30 07:37:57 2024
    On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 13:36:29 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    H-1B visas are not about enriching the US, but rather enriching the
    tech industry. And after the programming work is done, Musky, et.
    al., will shit can them.

    This is not correct! I've been on the receiving end of H1-B and I like
    them!

    Not a relevant point...

    "H-1B visas are temporary, non-immigrant visas for people who enter
    the US to work in a "specialty occupation". The visa is sponsored by
    the employer and is specific to a job and location. H-1B visa status
    can be extended in increments of up to three years at a time, for a
    total of up to six years."

    If the employee's work is not sufficent, they are fired.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Mon Dec 30 07:27:06 2024
    On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 13:36:29 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    There are advanced and profound economic papers that prove that the slave >owners would in fact be better off without slaves, and with workers.

    that prove

    Bullshit comes in many dialects, but previous US southerns would
    oppose this view.
    ===========

    AI Overview

    Yes, slave owners profited from the slave trade and slavery in the
    United States:

    Wealth
    Enslaved people were the most significant investment for Southern
    planters, and the bulk of their wealth. The profits from slavery made
    the South the most prosperous region of the country

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to JAB on Tue Dec 31 12:19:21 2024
    This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
    while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

    On Mon, 30 Dec 2024, JAB wrote:

    On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 13:36:29 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    There are advanced and profound economic papers that prove that the slave
    owners would in fact be better off without slaves, and with workers.

    that prove

    Bullshit comes in many dialects, but previous US southerns would
    oppose this view.
    ===========

    They were not very good economoists.

    AI Overview

    Yes, slave owners profited from the slave trade and slavery in the
    United States:

    Wealth
    Enslaved people were the most significant investment for Southern planters, and the bulk of their wealth. The profits from slavery made
    the South the most prosperous region of the country

    I did not say they did not profit, I said they would have been better off
    with salaried workers than with slaves.

    Economics proves this.

    Even your own friendly AI agrees.

    Analysis of Economic Viability: Salaried Workers vs. Slavery on Southern Plantations

    To determine whether southern plantation owners would have been better off
    with salaried workers instead of slaves, we need to analyze several
    economic factors, including productivity, costs, labor incentives, and the broader economic context of the antebellum South.

    1. Cost Structure of Slave Labor vs. Paid Labor

    The primary advantage of slave labor was that it provided a source of
    unpaid labor. Plantation owners did not pay wages; instead, they incurred
    costs related to the maintenance and control of enslaved individuals.
    These costs included food, clothing, shelter, medical care, and
    enforcement mechanisms to ensure compliance and productivity. However,
    these costs could be substantial over time.

    In contrast, salaried workers would require regular wage payments. While
    this might seem like a higher immediate cost compared to slavery, it is essential to consider the long-term implications. Paid workers typically
    have greater incentives to work efficiently since their compensation is directly tied to their productivity. This can lead to increased output per worker compared to enslaved individuals who may lack motivation beyond
    fear of punishment.

    2. Productivity and Incentives

    Economic theory suggests that paid laborers are often more productive than enslaved workers due to intrinsic motivation and personal investment in
    their work outcomes. Free workers are motivated by the need to provide for themselves and their families, which can lead them to work harder and more efficiently than slaves who may only respond to external pressures.

    Moreover, innovations in agricultural practices during the 19th century
    were beginning to favor more skilled labor that could adapt quickly to new techniques or technologies—something that enslaved individuals were less
    able or incentivized to do due to their status.

    3. Technological Advancements and Economic Context

    By the mid-19th century, technological advancements were changing
    agricultural practices significantly. The introduction of machinery in
    farming required a different skill set that paid workers could provide
    more readily than enslaved individuals who had limited opportunities for
    skill development.

    Additionally, as noted by various economists and historians studying this period, the economic landscape was shifting towards a capitalist model
    where wage labor was becoming increasingly dominant in the North. This
    shift indicated a broader trend where reliance on slave labor was becoming economically untenable in comparison with free labor systems that were
    emerging elsewhere.

    4. Long-Term Sustainability

    From an economic perspective, relying solely on slave labor posed
    significant risks for plantation owners in terms of sustainability. As
    societal norms began shifting towards abolitionism and as economic
    pressures mounted from both domestic and international markets favoring
    free labor systems (e.g., Northern states), plantation owners faced
    potential instability.

    If plantation owners had transitioned earlier to a system based on
    salaried workers or sharecropping models (which emerged post-Civil War),
    they might have mitigated some risks associated with social upheaval while
    also adapting more flexibly to changing market demands.

    Conclusion: Comparative Economic Viability

    In conclusion, while southern plantation owners initially benefited from
    the low direct costs associated with slavery, modern economic theory
    suggests that they would likely have been better off transitioning toward
    a system based on salaried workers due to enhanced productivity
    incentives, adaptability in agricultural practices through skilled
    laborers, and long-term sustainability within an evolving economic
    landscape.

    Thus, southern plantation owners would likely have been better off with salaried workers instead of slaves, considering both immediate
    productivity gains and long-term economic viability.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to JAB on Tue Dec 31 12:21:27 2024
    On Mon, 30 Dec 2024, JAB wrote:

    On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 13:36:29 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    H-1B visas are not about enriching the US, but rather enriching the
    tech industry. And after the programming work is done, Musky, et.
    al., will shit can them.

    This is not correct! I've been on the receiving end of H1-B and I like
    them!

    Not a relevant point...

    This is very relevant. I think there was a bit of text explaining my
    reasoning.

    "H-1B visas are temporary, non-immigrant visas for people who enter
    the US to work in a "specialty occupation". The visa is sponsored by
    the employer and is specific to a job and location. H-1B visa status
    can be extended in increments of up to three years at a time, for a
    total of up to six years."

    If the employee's work is not sufficent, they are fired.

    So? It's work, not a day care center. Companies are fully within their
    right to fire people who do not perform the job they are hired to do.
    Everyone is informed about H1B before taking the job, and are free to take
    it or reject the job.

    This is not a problem and only very entitled people are angry. H1B are a
    net benefit to society and they are not exploitation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Tue Dec 31 10:49:25 2024
    On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 12:21:27 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    If the employee's work is not sufficent, they are fired.

    So? It's work,

    It's an implicit employer threat...did you notice how Musk fired
    senior programmers when he took over X, and wanted the remaining
    employees to work longer hours?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Tue Dec 31 10:46:40 2024
    On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 12:19:21 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    Paid workers typically have greater incentives to work efficiently
    since their compensation is directly tied to their productivity.

    Speculation on the topic at hand...stick with the known fact: "The
    profits from slavery made the South the most prosperous region of the
    country"
    ====================

    What is a better word for prosperous?

    affluent, booming, comfortable, flourishing, fortunate, rich, robust,
    wealthy, well-heeled, well-off, well-to-do.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to JAB on Wed Jan 1 12:26:55 2025
    On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, JAB wrote:

    On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 12:21:27 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    If the employee's work is not sufficent, they are fired.

    So? It's work,

    It's an implicit employer threat...did you notice how Musk fired

    This is not correct. This is an inherent part of the contract and all
    parties know this beforehand. The workers accept as per voluntary informed consent, and there can be no blame.

    senior programmers when he took over X, and wanted the remaining
    employees to work longer hours?

    Yes! It is his company, he is the CEO and it is within his full rights to demand this, or to let people go. This is nothing strange, and is part of
    what it means to own a company and be the CEO.

    I realize that on the surface, this sounds harsh to you, but if you
    broaden your views, you will realize that the capitalist system has done
    more for raising the standards of living for mankind than all socialist
    and communist dictatorships taken together, and then some.

    I recommend Johan Norbergs excellent book The Capitalist Manifesto where
    he will teach you about this, supported by uncontrovertible facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Wed Jan 1 12:07:53 2025
    On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 12:26:55 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    but if you
    broaden your views, you will realize that the capitalist system has done
    more for raising the standards of living for mankind than all socialist
    and communist dictatorships taken together, and then some.

    Amish/etc don't need a capitalist system...I don't believe they use
    rubber tires on their equipment.

    raising the standards of living

    Global warming, shit piled deep during horse days, air pollution, etc.

    Obesity issues....Alcohol/drug issues....

    It's an implicit employer threat...did you notice how Musk fired

    This is not correct. This is an inherent part of the contract

    I don't believe when Musk took over Twitter, existing contract stated
    extra hours were required...he demanded it The senior programmers
    normally do not write much code, and iirc, Musk fired those who were
    not writing much code.

    Contract - Irreverent comment when the implicit threat of being fired
    exists, under a ruthless CEO/etc. I doubt you would last long under
    the Musk kingdom.

    Remember, there are the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly CEOs, and Musk is
    no saint.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to JAB on Wed Jan 1 23:43:41 2025
    On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, JAB wrote:

    On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 12:26:55 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    but if you
    broaden your views, you will realize that the capitalist system has done
    more for raising the standards of living for mankind than all socialist
    and communist dictatorships taken together, and then some.

    Amish/etc don't need a capitalist system...I don't believe they use
    rubber tires on their equipment.

    Incorrect.

    The Amish do use currency to buy and sell goods and services. While
    the Amish community is known for its simple lifestyle and rejection of
    many modern conveniences, they do engage in commerce and use money,
    typically in the form of cash or checks, for transactions.
    Key Points:

    Cash Transactions: Many Amish businesses operate on a cash-only basis,
    and cash is commonly used for everyday purchases.

    Checks: Some Amish individuals may also use personal checks for larger transactions or when dealing with non-Amish businesses.

    Bartering: In some cases, especially within their communities, the
    Amish may engage in bartering, exchanging goods or services without using money.

    Local Economy: The Amish often support local businesses and may sell
    their products, such as handmade crafts, furniture, and food items, at
    local markets or through direct sales.

    Overall, while the Amish lifestyle emphasizes simplicity and
    self-sufficiency, they do participate in the economy and use currency for transactions.

    raising the standards of living

    Global warming, shit piled deep during horse days, air pollution, etc.

    Capitalist countries are actually cleaner and more environmentally friendly than
    non-capitalist ones. Do you know why? Because they are much richer, they can actually afford to take care of nature. That is something non-capitalist countries cannot do.

    Obesity issues....Alcohol/drug issues....

    Yet, today, globally, we live longer than ever, so your two examples are not correct.

    It's an implicit employer threat...did you notice how Musk fired

    This is not correct. This is an inherent part of the contract

    I don't believe when Musk took over Twitter, existing contract stated
    extra hours were required...he demanded it The senior programmers
    normally do not write much code, and iirc, Musk fired those who were
    not writing much code.

    You must produce proof! Also, it is common business practice to re-negotiate contracts. Especially when new owners take over a company.

    Contract - Irreverent comment when the implicit threat of being fired
    exists, under a ruthless CEO/etc. I doubt you would last long under
    the Musk kingdom.

    Incorrect statement. Musk and I would have quite a bromance, and within shortly I would soar to unimaginable heights under his guidance.

    Remember, there are the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly CEOs, and Musk is
    no saint.

    No billionaire is a saint. We are in spiritual and loving agreement on this.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Wed Jan 1 18:38:08 2025
    On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:43:41 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    Musk fired those who were
    not writing much code.

    You must produce proof!

    "Lines of code written in the past year" was his metric.

    https://blog.developerpurpose.com/elon-musk-just-force-ranked-twitter-engineers-fired-the-bottom-507ab35b659a

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Wed Jan 1 18:35:11 2025
    On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:43:41 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    Amish/etc don't need a capitalist system...I don't believe they use
    rubber tires on their equipment.

    Incorrect.

    Incorrect...keyword was "need" but they may "want" to use it.

    Capitalist countries are actually cleaner

    Incorrect...Capitalists say "fuck that environmental crap," and they
    have a long track record of attempting to not be environmentally
    friendly.

    What do you think Musk is attempting to do?

    "Tesla, the electric vehicle company that made Musk the world's
    wealthiest person, has had repeated skirmishes with the National
    Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which regulates vehicle safety.
    So any cuts to NHTSA funding or staffing could help Tesla.

    The agency has forced Tesla to do recalls it didn't want, and it has
    opened investigations of Tesla vehicles, some of which raised
    questions about Musk's claims that Tesla is close to deploying
    autonomous vehicles without human drivers. The agency also is working
    on regulations that cover vehicle automation."

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-elon-musk-doge-tesla-spacex-80fa8b213b46460b1a0e369dc07a6404


    Yet, today, globally, we live longer than ever, so your two examples are not >correct.

    Not relevant....medical knowledge has advanced....vaccines and medical understandings assist greatly in a longer life.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to JAB on Thu Jan 2 12:39:28 2025
    On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, JAB wrote:

    On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:43:41 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    Amish/etc don't need a capitalist system...I don't believe they use
    rubber tires on their equipment.

    Incorrect.

    Incorrect...keyword was "need" but they may "want" to use it.

    They do need it to maintain their current life styles. Ban any form of the capitalist system, and watch them crumble.

    Capitalist countries are actually cleaner

    Incorrect...Capitalists say "fuck that environmental crap," and they
    have a long track record of attempting to not be environmentally
    friendly.

    Incorrect. I recommend the book The Capitalist Manifesto by Johan Norberg
    who will show you this, _and_ supply you with the data.

    What do you think Musk is attempting to do?

    Don't care.

    Yet, today, globally, we live longer than ever, so your two examples are not >> correct.

    Not relevant....medical knowledge has advanced....vaccines and medical understandings assist greatly in a longer life.

    This is relevant. I disproved your statements. It does not matter how we achieved it, we did. It's the results that matter.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to JAB on Thu Jan 2 12:40:11 2025
    On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, JAB wrote:

    On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:43:41 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    Musk fired those who were
    not writing much code.

    You must produce proof!

    "Lines of code written in the past year" was his metric.

    https://blog.developerpurpose.com/elon-musk-just-force-ranked-twitter-engineers-fired-the-bottom-507ab35b659a


    This is not proof.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JAB@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Thu Jan 2 13:39:59 2025
    On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:40:11 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    You must produce proof!

    "Lines of code written in the past year" was his metric.

    https://blog.developerpurpose.com/elon-musk-just-force-ranked-twitter-engineers-fired-the-bottom-507ab35b659a


    This is not proof.

    Circumstantial evidence was given...proof was not defined or requested
    in terms of direct or circumstantial evidence.

    Proof - evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a
    fact or the truth of a statement.

    AI Overview

    Difference between Direct Evidence and Circumstantial ...
    Circumstantial evidence is indirect evidence that relies on an
    inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact. It's the opposite of
    direct evidence, which directly supports the truth of an assertion

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to JAB on Fri Jan 3 12:49:52 2025
    On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, JAB wrote:

    On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:40:11 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

    You must produce proof!

    "Lines of code written in the past year" was his metric.

    https://blog.developerpurpose.com/elon-musk-just-force-ranked-twitter-engineers-fired-the-bottom-507ab35b659a


    This is not proof.

    Circumstantial evidence was given...proof was not defined or requested
    in terms of direct or circumstantial evidence.

    So you cannot give anything but circumstancial evidence? This is not so
    good. =( You do know that circumstancial evidence makes Jesus cry, don't
    you?

    Proof - evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a
    fact or the truth of a statement.

    AI Overview

    Difference between Direct Evidence and Circumstantial ...
    Circumstantial evidence is indirect evidence that relies on an
    inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact. It's the opposite of
    direct evidence, which directly supports the truth of an assertion


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)