Trump-Zelensky Meeting Implodes, Threatening Hopes for Peace
===============
The clash earlier Thursday at the White House began when Zelenskyy
disputed Vance's argument that Ukraine could obtain peace with Russia
through diplomacy, with the Ukrainian president noting how Russian
leader Vladimir Putin has repeatedly violated prior agreements.

"He killed our people, and he didn't exchange prisoners," Zelenskyy
said about Putin. "What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about?
What do you mean?"

Vance blasted Zelenskyy for not thanking Trump in public Friday, and
Trump said Zelenskyy was risking the deaths of millions of people, and
of starting "World War III" if he did not reach a peace deal.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/28/zelenskyy-does-not-apologize-for-trump-clash-not-good-for-both-sides.html

Ukraine deal off, Trump says after public spat with Zelenskyy

Oh, so those minerals weren't important....and now, it appears the
T-Borg wants Russia to kick Ukraine's butt.

The Art of the Deal is bullshit....

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JAB wrote:
Trump-Zelensky Meeting Implodes, Threatening Hopes for Peace
===============
The clash earlier Thursday at the White House began when Zelenskyy
disputed Vance's argument that Ukraine could obtain peace with Russia
through diplomacy, with the Ukrainian president noting how Russian
leader Vladimir Putin has repeatedly violated prior agreements.

"He killed our people, and he didn't exchange prisoners," Zelenskyy
said about Putin. "What kind of diplomacy, JD, you are speaking about?
What do you mean?"

Vance blasted Zelenskyy for not thanking Trump in public Friday, and
Trump said Zelenskyy was risking the deaths of millions of people, and
of starting "World War III" if he did not reach a peace deal.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/28/zelenskyy-does-not-apologize-for-trump-clash-not-good-for-both-sides.html

Ukraine deal off, Trump says after public spat with Zelenskyy

Oh, so those minerals weren't important....and now, it appears the
T-Borg wants Russia to kick Ukraine's butt.

The Art of the Deal is bullshit....

So Jab - what is your take on it?


This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=684736915#684736915

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On Sun, 02 Mar 2025 23:22:21 -0500,
mummycullen@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (MummyChunk) wrote:

So Jab - what is your take on it?

European leaders have jumped into the spotlight with Zelenskyy, and
Zelenskyy wants to sign the mineral deal.

I have not read the news today, but EU involvement was a surprise to
me. If the T-Borg wants "peace" in Ukraine, he will get involved with
them. But I believe he has received too much honey from Russia, and
is addicted to it.

Mineral Deal - I have not read the proposed 'agreement' It is unknown
if those minerals exist as stated since this info was based upon
studies done many years ago. I need to see what was stated.

T-Borg's rhetoric can't be trusted, and with EU stepping up to the
plate, this may affect his game plan.

Other countries have opposed his direction, along with US voters. He
knows Rs lost congressional seats in 2018.

Trump's trade war cost Republicans congressional seats in the 2018
midterm elections https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/trumps-trade-war-cost-republicans-congressional-seats-2018-midterm-elections

So is he going do it his way, and chance losing more seats, which will
affect how he can govern?

His actions suggest he will not be a peace-keeper with boots on the
ground, and Putin does not want boots on the ground.

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On Sun, 02 Mar 2025 23:22:21 -0500,
mummycullen@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (MummyChunk) wrote:

So Jab - what is your take on it?

Sidebar: Other factors....

Considering EU and a few other countries (Canada, Australia...) are
looking directly at the bully in unison on Sunday, is he going to
reconsider.

This whole matter will be determined by Putin...or not enough support
to Ukraine. His conservative ideologues want all of Ukraine, which is
most likely why Putin does not want boots on the ground.

Putin can threaten with nukes, and I'm not aware of who owns and
controls the nukes in EU countries. Either the bully will say 'fuck
you' to EU and other countries, or get with their objectives.

Either the bully understands consequences, or he does not. A person
does not make US great by fucking their friendly countries.

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JAB wrote:

Considering EU and a few other countries (Canada,
Australia...) are looking directly at the bully in unison on
Sunday, is he going to reconsider.

I doubt it.

In fact, Donald Trump is more likely to double down. He clearly
doesn't like Zelenskyy. I'm not sure wearing a suit will even
help Zelenskyy change Donald Trump's opinion of him at this
stage.

This whole matter will be determined by Putin...or not enough
support to Ukraine. His conservative ideologues want all of
Ukraine, which is most likely why Putin does not want boots on
the ground.

Vladimir Putin wanted all of Ukraine, he intended his army to
push on to Kyiv in 2022 and then instigate regime change with a
Moscow puppet in charge of Ukraine. Putin thought it would all
be done in six weeks... hence "special military operation". But
he got more than he bargained for and his troops have been
bogged down in the east of the country unable to push forward
much further. Which is why it has now become a war of attrition.

Putin can threaten with nukes, and I'm not aware of who owns
and controls the nukes in EU countries.

The UK and France are the only nuclear powers in Europe, as in
with their own 'nukes'. The USA/NATO have nuclear weapons based
in other EU states like the Netherlands, Germany and Italy.

Either the bully will say 'fuck you' to EU and other
countries, or get with their objectives.

If he hits the EU with tariffs soon and a trade war breaks out
they will say "fuck you" back!

Either the bully understands consequences, or he does not. A
person does not make US great by fucking their friendly
countries.

There must be better minerals and potential deals on the Russian
side of the border than there is within Ukraine's borders. As
it's never just about land or lines on a map... usually it's
about what's underneath the ground!

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On Mon, 03 Mar 2025 21:21:52 GMT, "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news>
wrote:

There must be better minerals and potential deals on the Russian
side of the border than there is within Ukraine's borders.

A trickery equation here...Musk definitely wants other options for
buying them...they won't be available until mined...it will take a
number of years before mining....could this "agreement" be sold to say Russia...how will China perceive and act upon an agreement.

Too many variables out there....

If he hits the EU with tariffs soon and a trade war breaks out
they will say "fuck you" back!

Paul Krugman
Mar 3


Trump probably imagines that he can bully European leaders into
standing aside and letting his friend (or boss?) Vladimir win. And
given Europe's history of timidity, you can understand why he might
think that. But European leaders are certainly saying the right things
now and also talking, in a way I've never seen before, about in effect declaring independence from the United States.

If Trump nonetheless tries to pressure Europe into abandoning Ukraine,
say by imposing tariffs on European goods (which seems to be his only
tactic), someone will have to tell him, "Sir, you don't have the
cards." The EU exports less than 3 percent of its GDP to the United
States. And there's already a public backlash against even the threat
of tariffs, as well as the absence of any visible effort on Trump's
part to make good on his campaign promises to bring down grocery
prices.

Paul Krugman
Mar 3

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On Mon, 3 Mar 2025, JAB wrote:

On Sun, 02 Mar 2025 23:22:21 -0500,
mummycullen@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (MummyChunk) wrote:

So Jab - what is your take on it?

Sidebar: Other factors....

Considering EU and a few other countries (Canada, Australia...) are
looking directly at the bully in unison on Sunday, is he going to reconsider.

That's nonsense. The EU stated they are coutning on US help and with
security guarantees. Yet another example of the incompetence of the EU.
They will never do anything.

Maybe UK will be the one who sends the first armed troops? If so, maybe
one or two EU countries will follow suit.

If not, Trump will get his way eventually, when he withdraws all support,
and Russia starts eating more territory.

The only thing that can motivate the EU is if russia does something stupid
like using a small nuke.

Otherwise, Trump will withdraw support, Russia will slowly eat away at the territory, and when the pain threshold is reached, Zelensky will bend the
knee, and then he will have lost even more territory.

This is sad, but it is the truth. The EU are no longer relevant. They will crash and burn, since they are socialist.

Also note that Orban and the Fico guy will slow down any decisions within
the EU since they are Putins men on the inside. Hungary and Slovakia need
to be kicked out in order to make EU faster. That is probably not enough.

This whole matter will be determined by Putin...or not enough support
to Ukraine. His conservative ideologues want all of Ukraine, which is
most likely why Putin does not want boots on the ground.

Putin can threaten with nukes, and I'm not aware of who owns and
controls the nukes in EU countries. Either the bully will say 'fuck
you' to EU and other countries, or get with their objectives.

Either the bully understands consequences, or he does not. A person
does not make US great by fucking their friendly countries.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

D wrote:

On Mon, 3 Mar 2025, JAB wrote:

Considering EU and a few other countries (Canada,
Australia...) are looking directly at the bully in unison on
Sunday, is he going to reconsider.

That's nonsense. The EU stated they are coutning on US help
and with security guarantees. Yet another example of the
incompetence of the EU. They will never do anything.

Of course the EU want the USA's help... the USA wear the big boy
pants and keep money flowing. If there was no USA involvement
the EU would have to do - and pay - a lot more. Clearly that's
not an option they like the sound of!

Maybe UK will be the one who sends the first armed troops? If
so, maybe one or two EU countries will follow suit.

That wouldn't surprise me.

If not, Trump will get his way eventually, when he withdraws
all support, and Russia starts eating more territory.

The only thing that can motivate the EU is if russia does
something stupid like using a small nuke.

If the EU haven't been motivated yet to come up with some sort
of European armed force to protect the integrity of the EU, or a
plan for peace on their borders, don't hold your breath on it
happening any time soon.

Russia wanting Ukraine is not breaking news. You'd swear from
all the noise coming from the recent get-together of EU leaders
that Russia invading Ukraine happened yesterday... Russia
invaded and occupied the Crimea in 2014! Yes 2014, eleven years
ago!!!

Otherwise, Trump will withdraw support, Russia will slowly eat
away at the territory, and when the pain threshold is reached,
Zelensky will bend the knee, and then he will have lost even
more territory.

This is sad, but it is the truth. The EU are no longer
relevant.

The EU do a lot of talking to try and make themselves relevant.

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JAB wrote:

And given Europe's history of timidity, you can understand why
he might think that. But European leaders are certainly saying
the right things now and also talking, in a way I've never
seen before, about in effect declaring independence from the
United States.

It's all talk.

Europe has too many different 'voices' within it... generally
they don't speak 'as one'. That has been the biggest problem.
Europe has always been divided on the big issues confronting
them, like Russia.

Chechnya, Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine, people being poisoned ...
did the EU miss all of that somehow? Or is the cheap Russian gas
and oil more important to them?

(That's a rhetorical question obviously.)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/24/eu-spends-more-russian-oil-gas-than-financial-aid-ukraine-report

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On Mon, 03 Mar 2025 23:24:34 GMT, "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news>
wrote:

Chechnya, Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine, people being poisoned ...
did the EU miss all of that somehow?

But, do they die?

June 13, 2024

The commander of the Georgian Legion that is fighting alongside
Ukraine against Russian troops told RFE/RL on June 12 that he was
poisoned several months ago. Mamuka Mamulashvili said that blood and
tissue samples were sent to a lab in Germany after he started feeling
acute pains in his stomach. It discovered that they contained high
levels of arsenic, mercury, and tin, which he likely ingested in food
he was served. Mamulashvili said it was the third time someone tried
to poison him and that Russian news outlets have reported his death
several times. Mamulashvili and other members of the Georgian Legion
are wanted in Russia on charges of illegally recruiting mercenaries
and participating in the war in Ukraine.

https://www.rferl.org/a/georgian-legion-fighter-mamulashvili-ukraine-poisoned-russia/32991300.html

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On Mon, 3 Mar 2025, Blueshirt wrote:

JAB wrote:

And given Europe's history of timidity, you can understand why
he might think that. But European leaders are certainly saying
the right things now and also talking, in a way I've never
seen before, about in effect declaring independence from the
United States.

It's all talk.

This is correct. EU is the king of twitter! This is ridiculous.

Europe has too many different 'voices' within it... generally
they don't speak 'as one'. That has been the biggest problem.
Europe has always been divided on the big issues confronting
them, like Russia.

Let us not forget Orban, Putins best friend, always eager to stop the EU machinery from working.

Chechnya, Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine, people being poisoned ...
did the EU miss all of that somehow? Or is the cheap Russian gas
and oil more important to them?

(That's a rhetorical question obviously.)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/24/eu-spends-more-russian-oil-gas-than-financial-aid-ukraine-report

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On Mon, 3 Mar 2025, Blueshirt wrote:

D wrote:

On Mon, 3 Mar 2025, JAB wrote:

Considering EU and a few other countries (Canada,
Australia...) are looking directly at the bully in unison on
Sunday, is he going to reconsider.

That's nonsense. The EU stated they are coutning on US help
and with security guarantees. Yet another example of the
incompetence of the EU. They will never do anything.

Of course the EU want the USA's help... the USA wear the big boy
pants and keep money flowing. If there was no USA involvement
the EU would have to do - and pay - a lot more. Clearly that's
not an option they like the sound of!

This is a correct statement! Science has proven this!

Maybe UK will be the one who sends the first armed troops? If
so, maybe one or two EU countries will follow suit.

That wouldn't surprise me.

Starmer needs a war to increase his popularity figures and distract the
locals from how bad a job he is doing. Nothing works better than a little
war, as per the excellent movie Wag the dog.

If not, Trump will get his way eventually, when he withdraws
all support, and Russia starts eating more territory.

The only thing that can motivate the EU is if russia does
something stupid like using a small nuke.

If the EU haven't been motivated yet to come up with some sort
of European armed force to protect the integrity of the EU, or a
plan for peace on their borders, don't hold your breath on it
happening any time soon.

I won't. But don't you think a small nuke would motivate them?

Russia wanting Ukraine is not breaking news. You'd swear from
all the noise coming from the recent get-together of EU leaders
that Russia invading Ukraine happened yesterday... Russia
invaded and occupied the Crimea in 2014! Yes 2014, eleven years
ago!!!

This is the truth! The EU politicians are not only incompetent, they are unusually stupid as well.

Otherwise, Trump will withdraw support, Russia will slowly eat
away at the territory, and when the pain threshold is reached,
Zelensky will bend the knee, and then he will have lost even
more territory.

This is sad, but it is the truth. The EU are no longer
relevant.

The EU do a lot of talking to try and make themselves relevant.

Not possible. The EU will collapse under the weight of its own
incompetence and socialism.

In a generation, many eu countries will be ethnically arabian, and the
economy a disaster. Smart children should leave the EU and start a better
life somewhere else.

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