• Apple Ends Apple Card Partnership with Goldman Sachs

    From sms@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 29 10:18:37 2023
    Apple Ends Apple Card Partnership with Goldman Sachs

    <https://fortune.com/2023/11/28/apple-goldman-credit-card-exit-american-express-synchrony/>

    No news as to whether or not someone else will pick up the Apple Card.

    --
    “If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
    really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
    indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
    they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

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  • From Chris in Makati@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 30 10:06:23 2023
    On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 10:18:37 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    Apple Ends Apple Card Partnership with Goldman Sachs

    <https://fortune.com/2023/11/28/apple-goldman-credit-card-exit-american-express-synchrony/>

    No news as to whether or not someone else will pick up the Apple Card.

    What happened to Apple's grand plans to expand the Apple Card to other countries?

    Over four years after launching, it's still only available in the USA.
    With Goldman Sachs not happy with the arrangement with Apple the whole
    project doesn't look like it's been that successful.

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  • From sms@21:1/5 to Chris in Makati on Thu Nov 30 11:26:52 2023
    On 11/30/2023 2:06 AM, Chris in Makati wrote:

    <snip>

    What happened to Apple's grand plans to expand the Apple Card to other countries?

    Over four years after launching, it's still only available in the USA.
    With Goldman Sachs not happy with the arrangement with Apple the whole project doesn't look like it's been that successful.

    The Apple Card didn't appeal to high-value consumers because the
    benefits were pretty lousy compared to other U.S. credit cards. They
    handed them out to people with poor or no credit so losses were high.

    Those that did obtain an Apple Card Mastercard often used them only for
    0% financing purchases from Apple and used a card with better benefits
    for other purchases. Since you couldn't use the Apple Card at Costco
    (which only takes Visa in the U.S.) most people used a different card
    for their mobile wallet on their phone. I.e. I use a card with 3% back
    on mobile wallet purchases at Costco, and I go to Costco a lot.

    Goldman Sachs/Apple could not get many merchants to subsidize an extra
    1% cash back so the number of businesses that gave 3% back was very
    limited (and I know that one franchise business that was really upset
    about having to give up another 1% and stopped taking all mobile wallet payments for a while).

    Goldman Sachs/Apple recently they dropped one of the biggest benefits of
    the Apple Card, 24 month interest-free financing on unlocked iPhones,
    now requiring that they be activated at time of purchase with a postpaid carrier (i.e. AT&T, T-Mobile, or Verizon). Not sure if it was Apple or
    Goldman Sachs that was subsidizing that 0% financing.

    If I were choosing a no annual fee credit card to use for a phone
    purchase, and for service, I'd choose the Wells Fargo Active Cash Card.
    $200 introductory bonus after $500 spending in three months, 2% cash
    back, 15 month interest-free financing, and cell phone protection
    (eliminating the need for AppleCare+).

    It'll be interesting to see what bank, if any, takes over the Apple
    Card, and what the benefits will be. They'll be extremely careful given
    the losses that Goldman Sachs incurred. Hopefully any replacement will
    be a Visa card.

    Did the Apple Card actually result in many more sales of Apple products?
    If so, then Apple would be happy to subsidize any losses incurred by the
    bank that issues the Apple Card.

    --
    “If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
    really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
    indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
    they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

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  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Chris in Makati on Fri Dec 1 09:54:33 2023
    On 2023-11-30 10:06:23 +0000, Chris in Makati said:
    On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 10:18:37 -0800, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
    wrote:

    Apple Ends Apple Card Partnership with Goldman Sachs

    <https://fortune.com/2023/11/28/apple-goldman-credit-card-exit-american-express-synchrony/>


    No news as to whether or not someone else will pick up the Apple Card.

    What happened to Apple's grand plans to expand the Apple Card to other countries?

    Over four years after launching, it's still only available in the USA.
    With Goldman Sachs not happy with the arrangement with Apple the whole project doesn't look like it's been that successful.

    It has been successful for Apple. Rumours say it has been less
    successful for Goldman Sachs (even possibly making a loss).

    There were sketchy rumours a while back about Apple wanting to bring
    the whole thing in-house.

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  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to sms on Thu Nov 30 16:39:33 2023
    On 2023-11-29 13:18, sms wrote:
    Apple Ends Apple Card Partnership with Goldman Sachs

    <https://fortune.com/2023/11/28/apple-goldman-credit-card-exit-american-express-synchrony/>

    It was a money loser for GS.

    --
    “Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
    - John Maynard Keynes.

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  • From Alan Browne@21:1/5 to sms on Thu Nov 30 17:45:41 2023
    On 2023-11-29 13:18, sms wrote:
    Apple Ends Apple Card Partnership with Goldman Sachs

    <https://fortune.com/2023/11/28/apple-goldman-credit-card-exit-american-express-synchrony/>

    No news as to whether or not someone else will pick up the Apple Card.

    Sept 2022:

    "Goldman’s loss rate on credit card loans is the worst among big U.S.
    card issuers and “well above subprime lenders” at 2.93%, according to a Sept. 6 note from JPMorgan.
    More than a quarter of Goldman’s card loans have gone to customers with
    FICO scores below 660, according to company filings. That could expose
    the bank to higher losses if the economy experiences a downturn, as is
    expected by many forecasters.
    CEO David Solomon will likely face questions from directors about the
    consumer business at a board meeting later this week, according to
    people with knowledge of the matter."


    So it's not so much "Apple" as GS getting terrible clients.

    More at...

    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/12/goldmans-gs-apple-card-business-has-a-surprising-subprime-problem.html


    --
    “Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
    - John Maynard Keynes.

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