• Re: google antitrust trial

    From Hank Rogers@21:1/5 to badgolferman on Sat May 4 16:32:03 2024
    badgolferman wrote:
    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’s business model will come to Google’s defense now too…


    Google will get off with a slap on the wrist. Maybe they'll later buy apple
    and increase their presence.

    The two cults will merge their churches.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Tyrone@21:1/5 to REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com on Sun May 5 00:23:17 2024
    On May 4, 2024 at 4:55:11 PM EDT, "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’s business model will come to Google’s defense now too…

    I don't see Google as a monopoly. Large, yes. But being large and successful does not make a monopoly.

    By definition, a monopoly is when there is NO choice. 100 years ago, Standard Oil was a U.S. monopoly. They owned most of the production and all of the distribution. You could not buy oil/gas/kerosene/etc. without money going Standard. THAT is a monopoly.

    Today, there is plenty of competition in phones/searching/email services/etc.
    I have never used Google search and I get along just fine. You can use Hotmail/Bing/Yahoo/iPhones/Edge/Safari etc., with no money going to Google.

    Apple is not a monopoly either, for the same reasons. You can use a Samsung phone/Yahoo/Spotify/FireFox etc. and no money goes to Apple.

    No one is forced to use Google or Chrome or Android or iPhones or iTunes or Apple Mail. Lots of people freely choosing what to use is the very definition of healthy competition. You can't declare that Apple AND Google are "monopolies". That's not how it works. You can't have 2 "monopolies"
    competing against each other.

    The U.S. government should sit down, shut up and do what they do best. Which is doing nothing until election time comes around. Then they all start yapping on TV to get re-elected. Then they all go away for 1/2/4 years whatever.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to Hank Rogers on Sun May 5 02:10:47 2024
    Hank Rogers wrote on Sat, 4 May 2024 16:32:03 -0500 :

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’s business model will >> come to Google’s defense now too…


    Google will get off with a slap on the wrist. Maybe they'll later buy apple and increase their presence.

    The two cults will merge their churches.

    Both Google and Apple stretch the laws, which is why both lose so many lawsuits; but what's different is nobody defends Google to the death.

    *Only Apple has the cult that defends them to the death*

    The Apple cultists are herd animals: The Android users are not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Andrew on Sat May 4 20:17:23 2024
    On 2024-05-04 19:10, Andrew wrote:
    Hank Rogers wrote on Sat, 4 May 2024 16:32:03 -0500 :

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’s business model will
    come to Google’s defense now too…


    Google will get off with a slap on the wrist. Maybe they'll later buy apple >> and increase their presence.

    The two cults will merge their churches.

    Both Google and Apple stretch the laws, which is why both lose so many lawsuits; but what's different is nobody defends Google to the death.

    Apple hasn't lost any lawsuits.


    *Only Apple has the cult that defends them to the death*

    The Apple cultists are herd animals: The Android users are not.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?=@21:1/5 to Tyrone on Sun May 5 07:09:12 2024
    On 05.05.24 02:23, Tyrone wrote:
    Today, there is plenty of competition in phones/searching/email services/etc.
    I have never used Google search and I get along just fine. You can use Hotmail/Bing/Yahoo/iPhones/Edge/Safari etc., with no money going to Google.

    *ROTFLSTC*. Do you really believe this crap? The way you argue you shows
    you do not understand how the internet works.

    --
    "Alea iacta est." (Julius Caesar)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?=@21:1/5 to Rod Speed on Sun May 5 07:12:17 2024
    On 05.05.24 03:07, Rod Speed wrote:
    badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’sbusiness model
    will come to Google’s defense now too…

    ——-

    Closing arguments in the government’s case alleging Google is a monopoly

    It clearly is nothing even remotely like a monopoly given
    that it isnt the only search engine or anything even remotely
    like the only smartphone OS or even app store.

    *ROTFLSTC*. Do you really believe this crap? The way you argue you shows
    you do not understand how the internet works. There are several
    monopolies under one roof. The worst being the de facto monopoly in the advertising market not only in the US.


    --
    "Alea iacta est." (Julius Caesar)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Rod Speed on Sat May 4 22:26:57 2024
    On 2024-05-04 22:08, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Sun, 05 May 2024 13:17:23 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-04 19:10, Andrew wrote:
    Hank Rogers wrote on Sat, 4 May 2024 16:32:03 -0500 :

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’s business
    model will
    come to Google’s defense now too…


    Google will get off with a slap on the wrist. Maybe they'll later
    buy apple
    and increase their presence.

    The two cults will merge their churches.
     Both Google and Apple stretch the laws, which is why both lose so many >>> lawsuits; but what's different is nobody defends Google to the death.

    Apple hasn't lost any lawsuits.

    Yes it has, most obviously with intellectual
    property lawsuits and tax lawsuits.

    Cite one.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Tyrone@21:1/5 to hugybear@gmx.net on Sun May 5 13:19:57 2024
    On May 5, 2024 at 1:09:12 AM EDT, "Jörg Lorenz" <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:

    On 05.05.24 02:23, Tyrone wrote:
    Today, there is plenty of competition in phones/searching/email services/etc.
    I have never used Google search and I get along just fine. You can use
    Hotmail/Bing/Yahoo/iPhones/Edge/Safari etc., with no money going to Google.

    *ROTFLSTC*. Do you really believe this crap? The way you argue you shows
    you do not understand how the internet works.

    First, stating facts is not "arguing".

    Second, you clearly have no idea what a monopoly is. Another fact.

    Third, I know how the internet works. Is Google making any money by me posting this? Is Apple?

    Google is not a monopoly. There are multiple alternatives. No one is forced
    to use Google (or Apple). Being popular and making lots of money for stockholders is not the definition of "monopoly".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Tyrone@21:1/5 to hugybear@gmx.net on Sun May 5 15:54:30 2024
    On May 5, 2024 at 1:12:17 AM EDT, "Jörg Lorenz" <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:

    On 05.05.24 03:07, Rod Speed wrote:
    badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’sbusiness model
    will come to Google’s defense now too…

    ——-

    Closing arguments in the government’s case alleging Google is a monopoly >>
    It clearly is nothing even remotely like a monopoly given
    that it isnt the only search engine or anything even remotely
    like the only smartphone OS or even app store.

    *ROTFLSTC*. Do you really believe this crap? The way you argue you shows
    you do not understand how the internet works. There are several
    monopolies under one roof.

    "Several monopolies"? How is that possible? You CLEARLY have no idea what a monopoly is. Hint: First, look up what "mono" means.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Rod Speed on Sun May 5 09:42:27 2024
    On 2024-05-04 23:52, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Sun, 05 May 2024 15:26:57 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-04 22:08, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Sun, 05 May 2024 13:17:23 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-04 19:10, Andrew wrote:
    Hank Rogers wrote on Sat, 4 May 2024 16:32:03 -0500 :

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’s business >>>>>>> model will
    come to Google’s defense now too…


    Google will get off with a slap on the wrist. Maybe they'll later
    buy apple
    and increase their presence.

    The two cults will merge their churches.
     Both Google and Apple stretch the laws, which is why both lose so
    many
    lawsuits; but what's different is nobody defends Google to the death.

    Apple hasn't lost any lawsuits.
     Yes it has, most obviously with intellectual
    property lawsuits and tax lawsuits.

    Cite one.

    The original legal shit fight with Microsoft on the look and feel of
    Windows

    Really?

    Something from more than 30 years ago is your goto?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Rod Speed on Sun May 5 11:07:23 2024
    On 2024-05-05 10:56, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Mon, 06 May 2024 02:42:56 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-04 23:58, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Sun, 05 May 2024 15:26:57 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-04 22:08, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Sun, 05 May 2024 13:17:23 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-04 19:10, Andrew wrote:
    Hank Rogers wrote on Sat, 4 May 2024 16:32:03 -0500 :

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’s business >>>>>>>>> model will
    come to Google’s defense now too…


    Google will get off with a slap on the wrist. Maybe they'll
    later buy apple
    and increase their presence.

    The two cults will merge their churches.
     Both Google and Apple stretch the laws, which is why both lose >>>>>>> so many
    lawsuits; but what's different is nobody defends Google to the
    death.

    Apple hasn't lost any lawsuits.
     Yes it has, most obviously with intellectual
    property lawsuits and tax lawsuits.

    Cite one.
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc.

    'Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.'

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc.>

    You might want to look at how many suits that article shows Apple lost...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Rod Speed on Sun May 5 11:58:53 2024
    On 2024-05-05 11:41, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Mon, 06 May 2024 04:07:23 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-05 10:56, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Mon, 06 May 2024 02:42:56 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-04 23:58, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Sun, 05 May 2024 15:26:57 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-04 22:08, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Sun, 05 May 2024 13:17:23 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 2024-05-04 19:10, Andrew wrote:
    Hank Rogers wrote on Sat, 4 May 2024 16:32:03 -0500 :

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’s >>>>>>>>>>> business model will
    come to Google’s defense now too…


    Google will get off with a slap on the wrist. Maybe they'll >>>>>>>>>> later buy apple
    and increase their presence.

    The two cults will merge their churches.
     Both Google and Apple stretch the laws, which is why both lose >>>>>>>>> so many
    lawsuits; but what's different is nobody defends Google to the >>>>>>>>> death.

    Apple hasn't lost any lawsuits.
     Yes it has, most obviously with intellectual
    property lawsuits and tax lawsuits.

    Cite one.
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc.

    'Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.'
     <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc.>

    You might want to look at how many suits that article shows Apple lost...

    Nope, that's what I was saying all along,

    Read it again.


    YOU stupidly claimed that it hadnt lost ANY.

    That is clearly a lie, most obviously the look and feel suit with MS
    about the Windows UI

    Which they only lost because a judge thought things that Apple invented
    were ubiquitous...

    ...which they only were in hindsight.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Rod Speed on Sun May 5 14:32:56 2024
    On 2024-05-05 13:17, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Mon, 06 May 2024 04:58:53 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-05 11:41, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Mon, 06 May 2024 04:07:23 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-05 10:56, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Mon, 06 May 2024 02:42:56 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

    On 2024-05-04 23:58, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Sun, 05 May 2024 15:26:57 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 2024-05-04 22:08, Rod Speed wrote:
    On Sun, 05 May 2024 13:17:23 +1000, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
    On 2024-05-04 19:10, Andrew wrote:
    Hank Rogers wrote on Sat, 4 May 2024 16:32:03 -0500 :

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’s >>>>>>>>>>>>> business model will
    come to Google’s defense now too…


    Google will get off with a slap on the wrist. Maybe they'll >>>>>>>>>>>> later buy apple
    and increase their presence.

    The two cults will merge their churches.
     Both Google and Apple stretch the laws, which is why both >>>>>>>>>>> lose so many
    lawsuits; but what's different is nobody defends Google to >>>>>>>>>>> the death.

    Apple hasn't lost any lawsuits.
     Yes it has, most obviously with intellectual
    property lawsuits and tax lawsuits.

    Cite one.
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc.

    'Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.'
     <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc.>

    You might want to look at how many suits that article shows Apple
    lost...
     Nope, that's what I was saying all along,

    Read it again.

    No need.

    So you think.

    Pity about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co.
    and yes you need to manually add the . in the browser box again

    Pity about you not understanding what the issue is...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Tyrone on Mon May 6 10:39:10 2024
    On 2024-05-05 13:19:57 +0000, Tyrone said:

    On May 5, 2024 at 1:09:12 AM EDT, "Jörg Lorenz" <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:

    On 05.05.24 02:23, Tyrone wrote:
    Today, there is plenty of competition in phones/searching/email services/etc.
    I have never used Google search and I get along just fine. You can use
    Hotmail/Bing/Yahoo/iPhones/Edge/Safari etc., with no money going to Google. >>
    *ROTFLSTC*. Do you really believe this crap? The way you argue you shows
    you do not understand how the internet works.

    First, stating facts is not "arguing".

    Second, you clearly have no idea what a monopoly is. Another fact.

    You can't reallt blame him since the US and EU politicians, and the
    management at Epic, etc. have no idea what a monopoly is either.
    Neither does any judge that lets the inane court cases last longer than
    two seconds.



    Third, I know how the internet works. Is Google making any money by me posting
    this? Is Apple?

    Google could well be. A *lot* of the internet runs on Google APIs, web
    fonts, etc. behind the scenes, but using a proper Usenet server (rather
    than a web-based one) should avoid that.

    Apple won't be making money from your post, but they did if you using
    an Apple device to make the post.



    Google is not a monopoly. There are multiple alternatives. No one is forced to use Google (or Apple). Being popular and making lots of money for stockholders is not the definition of "monopoly".

    It depends on how stupid the legal system wants to be.

    Apple is a monopoly in the sense that it's the only place making Apple
    devices ... but then that's how businesses work. If you want a Mustang
    car, you can only get it from Ford. If you want a Big Mac, you can only
    get it from McDonald's. Almost every business on the planet is a
    "monopoly" in terms of the intellectual property.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tyrone@21:1/5 to Your Name on Mon May 6 00:28:16 2024
    On May 5, 2024 at 6:39:10 PM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    Second, you clearly have no idea what a monopoly is. Another fact.

    You can't reallt blame him since the US and EU politicians, and the management at Epic, etc. have no idea what a monopoly is either.
    Neither does any judge that lets the inane court cases last longer than
    two seconds.

    Speaking of Epic, the judge in that case certainly knew. "Being successful is not illegal" is what he said to Epic.

    Third, I know how the internet works. Is Google making any money by me posting
    this? Is Apple?

    Google could well be. A *lot* of the internet runs on Google APIs, web
    fonts, etc. behind the scenes, but using a proper Usenet server (rather
    than a web-based one) should avoid that.

    Nothing illegal there either.

    Apple is a monopoly in the sense that it's the only place making Apple devices ... but then that's how businesses work. If you want a Mustang
    car, you can only get it from Ford. If you want a Big Mac, you can only
    get it from McDonald's. Almost every business on the planet is a
    "monopoly" in terms of the intellectual property.

    Monopolies exist in markets. Not products. Thus Ford, McDonald's and Apple
    are not monopolies. There are plenty of choices in the car, fast food burger and computer/phone markets.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Tyrone on Mon May 6 13:11:34 2024
    On 2024-05-06 00:28:16 +0000, Tyrone said:

    On May 5, 2024 at 6:39:10 PM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    Second, you clearly have no idea what a monopoly is. Another fact.

    You can't reallt blame him since the US and EU politicians, and the
    management at Epic, etc. have no idea what a monopoly is either.
    Neither does any judge that lets the inane court cases last longer than
    two seconds.

    Speaking of Epic, the judge in that case certainly knew. "Being successful is
    not illegal" is what he said to Epic.

    Third, I know how the internet works. Is Google making any money by me
    posting this? Is Apple?

    Google could well be. A *lot* of the internet runs on Google APIs, web
    fonts, etc. behind the scenes, but using a proper Usenet server (rather
    than a web-based one) should avoid that.

    Nothing illegal there either.

    Illegal, no. But the statement was "is Google making money by me
    posting this?" The reality is that Google / Alphabet is so intrenched
    in the behind-the-scenes of many websites, so even if you don't
    specifically use a Google app, you are likely, and unknowingly, still
    using Google services, and to some degree being tracked by them.




    Apple is a monopoly in the sense that it's the only place making Apple
    devices ... but then that's how businesses work. If you want a Mustang
    car, you can only get it from Ford. If you want a Big Mac, you can only
    get it from McDonald's. Almost every business on the planet is a
    "monopoly" in terms of the intellectual property.

    Monopolies exist in markets. Not products. Thus Ford, McDonald's and Apple are not monopolies. There are plenty of choices in the car, fast food burger and computer/phone markets.

    Yep.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?=@21:1/5 to Tyrone on Mon May 6 07:04:24 2024
    On 05.05.24 17:54, Tyrone wrote:
    On May 5, 2024 at 1:12:17 AM EDT, "Jörg Lorenz" <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:

    On 05.05.24 03:07, Rod Speed wrote:
    badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote

    Surely the same people here who were defending Apple’sbusiness model >>>> will come to Google’s defense now too…

    ——-

    Closing arguments in the government’s case alleging Google is a monopoly >>>
    It clearly is nothing even remotely like a monopoly given
    that it isnt the only search engine or anything even remotely
    like the only smartphone OS or even app store.

    *ROTFLSTC*. Do you really believe this crap? The way you argue you shows
    you do not understand how the internet works. There are several
    monopolies under one roof.

    "Several monopolies"? How is that possible? You CLEARLY have no idea what a monopoly is. Hint: First, look up what "mono" means.

    Google serves several markets, Troll.

    Once more the EU has to set the rule.

    --
    "Alea iacta est." (Julius Caesar)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Tyrone@21:1/5 to Your Name on Mon May 6 04:39:14 2024
    On May 5, 2024 at 9:11:34 PM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    Illegal, no. But the statement was "is Google making money by me
    posting this?" The reality is that Google / Alphabet is so intrenched
    in the behind-the-scenes of many websites, so even if you don't
    specifically use a Google app, you are likely, and unknowingly, still
    using Google services, and to some degree being tracked by them.

    Even if that is true, Google is still not a monopoly.

    Also, I am not posting from a website.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Tyrone on Mon May 6 18:34:49 2024
    On 2024-05-06 04:39:14 +0000, Tyrone said:
    On May 5, 2024 at 9:11:34 PM EDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    Illegal, no. But the statement was "is Google making money by me
    posting this?" The reality is that Google / Alphabet is so intrenched
    in the behind-the-scenes of many websites, so even if you don't
    specifically use a Google app, you are likely, and unknowingly, still
    using Google services, and to some degree being tracked by them.

    Even if that is true, Google is still not a monopoly.

    Also, I am not posting from a website.

    I didn't say it was a monoply. Simply replying to the statement that
    "Google making money by me posting this?"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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