On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 11:01:17 -0400, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Some states allow digital drivers licenses in Apple Wallet and even TSA
is accepting digital passports now too. Has anyone here done this?
What advantage have you found? What could possibly go wrong with this >scenario? It seems like a privacy nightmare in the making.

I'm not sure why it would be a privacy nightmare. I would think an ID
is more secure on a phone that it is in a paper format such as we have
now with driver's licenses and passports. It's the same with credit
cards. Apple Pay is more secure than a plastic card.

For me, the more things that can be made digital and put on a phone
the better so that I don't need to carry so much around in a physical
wallet.

Chris

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On 2025-07-08, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

On 07/08/2025 12:14, Chris in Makati wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 11:01:17 -0400, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Some states allow digital drivers licenses in Apple Wallet and even
TSA is accepting digital passports now too. Has anyone here done
this? What advantage have you found? What could possibly go wrong
with this scenario? It seems like a privacy nightmare in the
making.

I'm not sure why it would be a privacy nightmare. I would think an ID
is more secure on a phone that it is in a paper format such as we
have now with driver's licenses and passports. It's the same with
credit cards. Apple Pay is more secure than a plastic card.

For me, the more things that can be made digital and put on a phone
the better so that I don't need to carry so much around in a physical
wallet.

There are lots more bad actors capable of stealing your digital and
online files than there are those who can steal your physical wallet.
If that stuff is accessible digitally online then it's already at a
higher risk, regardless of encryption level. How often do you read or
see on the news that the most protected data has been breached by
privacy thieves from thousands of miles away? How often do people get
their identities stolen from a random database? At least my wallet is
in my direct possession and no one will get their hands on it unless
they have direct physical access to it, and that would only happen if
I'm mugged or careless.

Apple Wallet data stored in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted, and Apple
cannot access it. You're also in full control of whether Wallet data is synchronized to iCloud at all. Where's this "privacy nightmare"?

--
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I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On 09.07.25 01:07, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2025-07-08, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

On 07/08/2025 12:14, Chris in Makati wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 11:01:17 -0400, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Some states allow digital drivers licenses in Apple Wallet and even
TSA is accepting digital passports now too. Has anyone here done
this? What advantage have you found? What could possibly go wrong
with this scenario? It seems like a privacy nightmare in the
making.

I'm not sure why it would be a privacy nightmare. I would think an ID
is more secure on a phone that it is in a paper format such as we
have now with driver's licenses and passports. It's the same with
credit cards. Apple Pay is more secure than a plastic card.

For me, the more things that can be made digital and put on a phone
the better so that I don't need to carry so much around in a physical
wallet.

There are lots more bad actors capable of stealing your digital and
online files than there are those who can steal your physical wallet.
If that stuff is accessible digitally online then it's already at a
higher risk, regardless of encryption level. How often do you read or
see on the news that the most protected data has been breached by
privacy thieves from thousands of miles away? How often do people get
their identities stolen from a random database? At least my wallet is
in my direct possession and no one will get their hands on it unless
they have direct physical access to it, and that would only happen if
I'm mugged or careless.

Apple Wallet data stored in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted, and Apple
cannot access it. You're also in full control of whether Wallet data is synchronized to iCloud at all. Where's this "privacy nightmare"?

FACK: A lot of geriatric nonsense. E2E-encryption is the most secure way
to store data of any kind that exists.


--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

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On 8 Jul 2025 23:07:47 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :

On 2025-07-08, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

On 07/08/2025 12:14, Chris in Makati wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 11:01:17 -0400, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Some states allow digital drivers licenses in Apple Wallet and even
TSA is accepting digital passports now too. Has anyone here done
this? What advantage have you found? What could possibly go wrong
with this scenario? It seems like a privacy nightmare in the
making.

I'm not sure why it would be a privacy nightmare. I would think an ID
is more secure on a phone that it is in a paper format such as we
have now with driver's licenses and passports. It's the same with
credit cards. Apple Pay is more secure than a plastic card.

For me, the more things that can be made digital and put on a phone
the better so that I don't need to carry so much around in a physical
wallet.

There are lots more bad actors capable of stealing your digital and
online files than there are those who can steal your physical wallet.
If that stuff is accessible digitally online then it's already at a
higher risk, regardless of encryption level. How often do you read or
see on the news that the most protected data has been breached by
privacy thieves from thousands of miles away? How often do people get
their identities stolen from a random database? At least my wallet is
in my direct possession and no one will get their hands on it unless
they have direct physical access to it, and that would only happen if
I'm mugged or careless.

Apple Wallet data stored in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted, and Apple
cannot access it. You're also in full control of whether Wallet data is synchronized to iCloud at all. Where's this "privacy nightmare"?

Knowing history, I wouldn't doubt state actors have long ago cracked
Apple's encryption given almost nothing Apple makes hasn't been cracked.

What makes anyone think Apple can keep anything secure when even their highly-advertised "secure enclave" was cracked wide open by the Pangu Team.

Keep in mind, Unit 8200 cracked almost everything the Iranians had that was encrypted and OP-20-G was reading Japanese military dispatches as fast as
the Japanese were receiving them, and Bletchley Park was reading German transmissions as fast as the Germans were, where even in the low-tech days
of WWI, Room 40 decoded the Zimmermann Telegram which got us into the war.

Anyone who thinks Apple's encryption is safe, doesn't know history.
I agree with badgolferman. The safest place for a CC is in your wallet.

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On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 12:42:52 -0400, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

On 07/08/2025 12:14, Chris in Makati wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 11:01:17 -0400, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Some states allow digital drivers licenses in Apple Wallet and even TSA
is accepting digital passports now too. Has anyone here done this?
What advantage have you found? What could possibly go wrong with this
scenario? It seems like a privacy nightmare in the making.

I'm not sure why it would be a privacy nightmare. I would think an ID
is more secure on a phone that it is in a paper format such as we have
now with driver's licenses and passports. It's the same with credit
cards. Apple Pay is more secure than a plastic card.

For me, the more things that can be made digital and put on a phone
the better so that I don't need to carry so much around in a physical
wallet.

Chris

There are lots more bad actors capable of stealing your digital and
online files than there are those who can steal your physical wallet.
If that stuff is accessible digitally online then it's already at a
higher risk, regardless of encryption level. How often do you read or
see on the news that the most protected data has been breached by
privacy thieves from thousands of miles away? How often do people get
their identities stolen from a random database? At least my wallet is
in my direct possession and no one will get their hands on it unless
they have direct physical access to it, and that would only happen if
I'm mugged or careless.

Do you think that the government departments that issue your driver's
license and passport don't also store that data in their computer
systems? What makes them immune from attack by hackers?

In any case, I'd say it would be a lot easier to pickpocket someone's
wallet from their person than it would be to break into and retrieve
encrypted data from Apple's systems.

Chris

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On 09.07.25 08:25, Marion wrote:

On 8 Jul 2025 23:07:47 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :

On 2025-07-08, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

On 07/08/2025 12:14, Chris in Makati wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 11:01:17 -0400, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Some states allow digital drivers licenses in Apple Wallet and even
TSA is accepting digital passports now too. Has anyone here done
this? What advantage have you found? What could possibly go wrong
with this scenario? It seems like a privacy nightmare in the
making.

I'm not sure why it would be a privacy nightmare. I would think an ID
is more secure on a phone that it is in a paper format such as we
have now with driver's licenses and passports. It's the same with
credit cards. Apple Pay is more secure than a plastic card.

For me, the more things that can be made digital and put on a phone
the better so that I don't need to carry so much around in a physical
wallet.

There are lots more bad actors capable of stealing your digital and
online files than there are those who can steal your physical wallet.
If that stuff is accessible digitally online then it's already at a
higher risk, regardless of encryption level. How often do you read or
see on the news that the most protected data has been breached by
privacy thieves from thousands of miles away? How often do people get
their identities stolen from a random database? At least my wallet is
in my direct possession and no one will get their hands on it unless
they have direct physical access to it, and that would only happen if
I'm mugged or careless.

Apple Wallet data stored in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted, and Apple
cannot access it. You're also in full control of whether Wallet data is
synchronized to iCloud at all. Where's this "privacy nightmare"?

Knowing history, I wouldn't doubt state actors have long ago cracked
Apple's encryption given almost nothing Apple makes hasn't been cracked.

You are such a brain dead idiot, Arlen.


--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

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On Wed, 09 Jul 2025 11:55:03 +0100, Chris in Makati wrote :

Do you think that the government departments that issue your driver's
license and passport don't also store that data in their computer
systems? What makes them immune from attack by hackers?

In any case, I'd say it would be a lot easier to pickpocket someone's
wallet from their person than it would be to break into and retrieve encrypted data from Apple's systems.

I think you missed badgolferman's point, Chris.
And you just as likely didn't understand mine.

It's fine for you to feel safe with billions of people being able to potentially access *both* the DMV and Apple's so-called encrypted systems.

Given how horribly insecure Apple's systems have been to date, I don't know whom I'd trust *less* with my personal data... the government or Apple.

Just keep in mind the fact that even the most carefully guarded encryption schemes have been proven to be hacked given enough resources paid to them.

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On 2025-07-09, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On 8 Jul 2025 23:07:47 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote :

On 2025-07-08, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

There are lots more bad actors capable of stealing your digital and
online files than there are those who can steal your physical wallet.
If that stuff is accessible digitally online then it's already at a
higher risk, regardless of encryption level. How often do you read or
see on the news that the most protected data has been breached by
privacy thieves from thousands of miles away? How often do people get
their identities stolen from a random database? At least my wallet is
in my direct possession and no one will get their hands on it unless
they have direct physical access to it, and that would only happen if
I'm mugged or careless.

Apple Wallet data stored in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted, and Apple
cannot access it. You're also in full control of whether Wallet data is
synchronized to iCloud at all. Where's this "privacy nightmare"?

Knowing history, I wouldn't doubt state actors have long ago cracked
Apple's encryption given almost nothing Apple makes hasn't been cracked.

Sure, Jan.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 20:38:02 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

How is an encrypted digital entity less secure than a
unencrypted openly visible paper passport in a bad actor's hands.

Hi Chris,
I never thought about this until it came up here, as the last thing I'd do
is put more of my data on yet another database, so let's look at this
issue.

Logically.
Sensibly.

Where is the traditional paper identification database stored?
a. In the government archives.
b. In your wallet.
c. Often in any database that "copies/saves" it (e.g., banks).
d. We also know LE often accesses the government archives.
e. And, possibly, bad actors will access these archives, when possible.
f. Anywhere else?

Where is the digital encrypted identification database stored?
A: (tell us the answer)

Now, has *that* location ever been hacked?
A: (look up Pangu Team's 2020 Discovery of an unpatchable exploit)

That unpatchable exploit allowed attackers to extract Apple Pay
credentials, biometric info and passwords from your mobile device.

How often do you read or
see on the news that the most protected data has been breached by
privacy thieves from thousands of miles away?

In US loads of times because there's no oversight and even less so now. In other countries it's rare, because the regulatory penalties can be very serious. In the UK for example, the fine can be up to 4% of annual *global* sales. So if Apple or Google were to fuck up they risk fines of hundreds of millions.

Yet again Europe is keeping your companies in check for you. You're
welcome.

Looking at things logically & sensibly, I don't doubt that regulations are stiff in the EU and in the UK for database breaches, where I'm clearly on record for applauding the EU & UK if they are actually holding Apple's feet
to the fire.

The problem that I have with Apple isn't so much it's one of the most
deceitful companies on the planet, but that I don't trust their encryption.

Almost everything Apple makes has been hacked, including the secure enclave
and the iOS kernel (and yes, Android has had many zero-day hacks also).

And example of iOS kernel hacks is Operation Triangulation, in 1923.
An example of Android kernel hacks are CVE-2024-53104 & CVE-2024-53197.

Note: If the hack doesn't make the news, I don't have any special access to
the data. But we all *know* that nothing stored on a mobile device is safe.

How often do people get
their identities stolen from a random database? At least my wallet is
in my direct possession and no one will get their hands on it unless
they have direct physical access to it, and that would only happen if
I'm mugged or careless.

Exactly.

Being logical and sensible, if I understand the two opposing discussions correctly, each method has almost the same set of attack opportunities,
save for the last item in the list initially proposed above.

Both methods store your data...
a. In the government archives.
b. In your wallet (or phone).
c. Often in any database that "copies/saves" it (e.g., banks).
d. We also know LE often accesses the government archives.
e. And, possibly, bad actors will access these archives, when possible.
f. Anywhere else?

Note: I never looked at this problem until today so I'm open to discussion
as it seems only one of the storage items is different.

The rest are the same.

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On 2025-07-08, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

On 2025-07-08, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

On 07/08/2025 12:14, Chris in Makati wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 11:01:17 -0400, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

Some states allow digital drivers licenses in Apple Wallet and even
TSA is accepting digital passports now too. Has anyone here done
this? What advantage have you found? What could possibly go wrong
with this scenario? It seems like a privacy nightmare in the
making.

I'm not sure why it would be a privacy nightmare. I would think an
ID is more secure on a phone that it is in a paper format such as we
have now with driver's licenses and passports. It's the same with
credit cards. Apple Pay is more secure than a plastic card.

For me, the more things that can be made digital and put on a phone
the better so that I don't need to carry so much around in a
physical wallet.

There are lots more bad actors capable of stealing your digital and
online files than there are those who can steal your physical wallet.
If that stuff is accessible digitally online then it's already at a
higher risk, regardless of encryption level. How often do you read
or see on the news that the most protected data has been breached by
privacy thieves from thousands of miles away? How often do people
get their identities stolen from a random database? At least my
wallet is in my direct possession and no one will get their hands on
it unless they have direct physical access to it, and that would only
happen if I'm mugged or careless.

Apple Wallet data stored in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted, and Apple
cannot access it. You're also in full control of whether Wallet data
is synchronized to iCloud at all. Where's this "privacy nightmare"?

*crickets chirping*...

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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