• Form 1099-R or Form 4852 For Foreign Social Security Payments?

    From tb@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 8 14:13:23 2024
    I am a U.S. citizen and reside in the USA.

    The Swiss "Social Security Administration" will soon start crediting my
    bank account with monthly social security payments.

    These payments are not the result of a totalization agreement between
    the U.S. and the Swiss social security administrations.

    The Swiss government will not be sending me a Form 1099-R at the end of
    the year.

    My reading of the tax treaty between the U.S.A. and Switzerland is that
    I will have to pay taxes in the U.S.A. for such social security
    payments.

    Since the Swiss "Social Security Administration" will not be sending me
    a Form 1099-R, will I have to fill out such form on my own, or perhaps
    fill out Form 4852? (In either case I will not be able to supply a
    payer's TIN and might have to do a paper return...)

    Thanks for your suggestions.

    --
    tb

    --
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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to nospam@example.invalid on Fri Feb 9 12:37:53 2024
    tb <nospam@example.invalid> wrote:

    I am a U.S. citizen and reside in the USA.

    The Swiss "Social Security Administration" will soon start crediting my
    bank account with monthly social security payments.

    These payments are not the result of a totalization agreement between
    the U.S. and the Swiss social security administrations.

    The Swiss government will not be sending me a Form 1099-R at the end of
    the year.

    My reading of the tax treaty between the U.S.A. and Switzerland is that
    I will have to pay taxes in the U.S.A. for such social security
    payments.

    Since the Swiss "Social Security Administration" will not be sending me
    a Form 1099-R, will I have to fill out such form on my own, or perhaps
    fill out Form 4852? (In either case I will not be able to supply a
    payer's TIN and might have to do a paper return...)

    You aren't the payer, so skip the 1099-R. You will have received
    statements from the pension administrators so you'll know what you'll
    need to report.

    Literally, the statement received from US SSA isn't a 1099 but SSA's own form.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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  • From tb@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 9 16:29:49 2024
    On 2/8/2024 at 7:37:53 PM Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    tb <nospam@example.invalid> wrote:

    I am a U.S. citizen and reside in the USA.

    The Swiss "Social Security Administration" will soon start
    crediting my bank account with monthly social security payments.

    These payments are not the result of a totalization agreement
    between the U.S. and the Swiss social security administrations.

    The Swiss government will not be sending me a Form 1099-R at the
    end of the year.

    My reading of the tax treaty between the U.S.A. and Switzerland is
    that I will have to pay taxes in the U.S.A. for such social security payments.

    Since the Swiss "Social Security Administration" will not be
    sending me a Form 1099-R, will I have to fill out such form on my
    own, or perhaps fill out Form 4852? (In either case I will not be
    able to supply a payer's TIN and might have to do a paper return...)

    You aren't the payer, so skip the 1099-R. You will have received
    statements from the pension administrators so you'll know what you'll
    need to report.

    Literally, the statement received from US SSA isn't a 1099 but SSA's
    own form.

    Ok, thanks.
    Would you report such income on Line 5b, Line 6b, or Line 8 (via
    Schedule 1, Line 8z) of the 1040?

    --
    tb

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to nospam@example.invalid on Fri Feb 9 17:30:12 2024
    tb <nospam@example.invalid> wrote:
    On 2/8/2024 at 7:37:53 PM Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    tb <nospam@example.invalid> wrote:

    I am a U.S. citizen and reside in the USA.

    The Swiss "Social Security Administration" will soon start
    crediting my bank account with monthly social security payments.

    These payments are not the result of a totalization agreement
    between the U.S. and the Swiss social security administrations.

    The Swiss government will not be sending me a Form 1099-R at the
    end of the year.

    My reading of the tax treaty between the U.S.A. and Switzerland is
    that I will have to pay taxes in the U.S.A. for such social security >>>payments.

    Since the Swiss "Social Security Administration" will not be
    sending me a Form 1099-R, will I have to fill out such form on my
    own, or perhaps fill out Form 4852? (In either case I will not be
    able to supply a payer's TIN and might have to do a paper return...)

    You aren't the payer, so skip the 1099-R. You will have received
    statements from the pension administrators so you'll know what you'll
    need to report.

    Literally, the statement received from US SSA isn't a 1099 but SSA's
    own form.

    Ok, thanks.
    Would you report such income on Line 5b, Line 6b, or Line 8 (via
    Schedule 1, Line 8z) of the 1040?

    Both 5a and 5b. What part is the taxable part? I'm not sure. If it was
    subject to foreign tax as well, don't forget to take the credit.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From tb@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Fri Feb 9 20:39:49 2024
    On 2/9/24 16:30, Adam H. Kerman wrote:


    Both 5a and 5b. What part is the taxable part? I'm not sure. If it was subject to foreign tax as well, don't forget to take the credit.


    I could not find anything in the tax agreement that would indicate what
    part is taxable. I am therefore guessing that 100% is taxable...
    --
    tb

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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