REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the following
101 moderated newsgroups.
RATIONALE:
Currently, those groups cannot be used for discussion because of the
lack of a moderator. Most of those groups haven't had a moderator for
a long time and have been unused for years. We consider it unlikely
that they will ever be revived with a new moderator. Nonetheless,
anyone interested in becoming a moderator for a group listed in this
RFD is invited to contact the Big-8 Management Board.
DISTRIBUTION:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
news.groups
Because of the magnitude of the group list, this proposal is not
cross-posted to target groups. In the course of these proceedings the
Board will post pointers to this announcement to appropriate
groups. Readers are encouraged to take the initiative and spread the
message.
PROCEDURE:
The procedure shall take at least 8 weeks, with announcements posted
every 4 weeks: 1st RFD, 2nd RFD, and Last Call for Comments (LCC).
. . .
If you have any objections, please make them heard in moderated group >news.groups.proposals. The "Followup-To:" header is set on this message,
so simply replying to this post should do the right thing.
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the following
101 moderated newsgroups.
RATIONALE:
Currently, those groups cannot be used for discussion because of the
lack of a moderator. Most of those groups haven't had a moderator for
a long time and have been unused for years. We consider it unlikely
that they will ever be revived with a new moderator. Nonetheless,
anyone interested in becoming a moderator for a group listed in this
RFD is invited to contact the Big-8 Management Board.
DISTRIBUTION:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
news.groups
Because of the magnitude of the group list, this proposal is not
cross-posted to target groups. In the course of these proceedings the
Board will post pointers to this announcement to appropriate
groups. Readers are encouraged to take the initiative and spread the
message.
PROCEDURE:
The procedure shall take at least 8 weeks, with announcements posted
every 4 weeks: 1st RFD, 2nd RFD, and Last Call for Comments (LCC). The
group lists may be revised during this stage and additional RFDs
posted as necessary. Discussion about candidate groups should take
place in the moderated group news.groups.proposals. After publication
of the LCC, the Board will vote. If there are specific reasons to vote >individually for some groups, the Board will do, but the default will
be a ballot covering all groups.
More details can be found here:
https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Mass_removal_of_groups
NEWSGROUP LINES:
comp.binaries.cbm For the transfer of 8bit Commodore binaries. >(Moderated)
comp.doc.techreports Lists of technical reports. (Moderated) >comp.internet.library Discussing electronic libraries. (Moderated) >comp.lang.c.moderated The C programming language. (Moderated)
comp.newprod Announcements of new products of interest. >(Moderated)
comp.org.cauce The Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial
E-Mail. (Moderated)
comp.robotics.research Academic, government & industry research in
robotics. (Moderated)
comp.simulation Simulation methods, problems, uses. (Moderated) >comp.soft-sys.math.mathematica Mathematica discussion group. (Moderated) >comp.sources.games Postings of recreational software. (Moderated) >comp.std.announce Announcements about standards activities.
(Moderated)
comp.sys.amiga.announce Announcements about the Amiga. (Moderated) >comp.sys.sun.announce Sun announcements and Sunergy mailings. (Moderated) >humanities.philosophy.objectivism The ideas of Ayn Rand. (Moderated) >misc.activism.progressive Information for Progressive activists. >(Moderated)
misc.business.consulting The business of consulting. (Moderated) >misc.business.marketing.moderated Roundtable for marketing topics. >(Moderated)
misc.business.moderated Roundtable for general business topics. (Moderated) >misc.entrepreneurs.moderated Entrepreneur/business topics. (Moderated) >misc.invest.financial-plan Financial planning in general. (Moderated) >misc.transport.air-industry Airlines, airports, commercial aircraft. >(Moderated)
misc.writing.screenplays.moderated Craft/business of screenwriting. >(Moderated)
news.admin.net-abuse.policy Discussion of net abuse policy. (Moderated) >news.announce.conferences Calls for papers and conferences.
(Moderated)
rec.arts.anime.creative Original works by fans, related to anime/manga. >(Moderated)
rec.arts.anime.info Announcements about Japanese animation. (Moderated) >rec.arts.ascii ASCII art, info on archives, art, & artists. >(Moderated)
rec.arts.drwho.moderated Discussion of "Doctor Who". (Moderated) >rec.arts.erotica Erotic fiction and verse. (Moderated) >rec.arts.movies.erotica Aspects of erotic films and videos. (Moderated) >rec.arts.movies.reviews Reviews of movies. (Moderated)
rec.arts.sf.announce Major announcements of the SF world. (Moderated) >rec.arts.sf.starwars.info General information pertaining to Star
Wars. (Moderated)
rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Discussion of Formula One racing.
(Moderated)
rec.autos.sport.nascar.moderated NASCAR and Stockcar Racing. >(Moderated)
rec.boats.marketplace Boating products for sale and wanted. (Moderated) >rec.crafts.jewelry Jewelry making and gemology. (Moderated) >rec.drugs.announce Announcements about drugs and related issues. >(Moderated)
rec.food.cuisine.jewish All matters concerning Jewish cuisine. (Moderated) >rec.food.recipes Recipes for interesting food and drink. (Moderated) >rec.gardens.ecosystems Ecosystems and organic gardening. (Moderated) >rec.humor.funny Jokes that are funny (in the moderator's
opinion). (Moderated)
rec.humor.funny.reruns Reposts of rec.humor.funny archive material. >(Moderated)
rec.martial-arts.moderated Martial-arts in general. (Moderated) >rec.music.beatles.info Latest press notes about the Beatles. (Moderated) >rec.music.beatles.moderated Fab Four analytical & investigative
articles. (Moderated)
rec.music.gaffa Discussion of Kate Bush & other alternative
music. (Moderated)
rec.music.info News and announcements on musical topics.
(Moderated)
rec.music.makers.guitar.tablature Guitar tablature and
performance. (Moderated)
rec.music.promotional Information and promo materials from record >companies. (Moderated)
rec.music.reviews Reviews of music of all genres and mediums. >(Moderated)
rec.pets.dogs.info General information and FAQs posted here.
(Moderated)
rec.pets.ferrets Forum on ferret care and husbandry. (Moderated) >rec.photo.moderated The art and science of photography. (Moderated) >rec.skiing.alpine.moderated Alpine (downhill) skiing. (Moderated) >rec.skiing.announce FAQ, competition results, automated snow
reports. (Moderated)
sci.aeronautics The science of aeronautics & related technology. >(Moderated)
sci.archaeology.moderated All aspects of archaeology. (Moderated) >sci.bio.evolution Discussions of evolutionary biology. (Moderated) >sci.bio.phytopathology All aspects of plant diseases and pests. (Moderated) >sci.chem.organic.synthesis Synthetic organic chemistry related
topics. (Moderated)
sci.econ.research Research in all fields of economics. (Moderated) >sci.med.orthopedics Orthopedic Surgery, related issues and
management. (Moderated)
sci.military.moderated Military technology. (Moderated)
sci.nanotech Self-reproducing molecular-scale machines. >(Moderated)
sci.physics.foundations Fundamental and philosophical physics. (Moderated) >sci.physics.strings String theory and related fields. (Moderated) >sci.space.moderated Discussions about space related topics. (Moderated) >sci.space.news Announcements of space-related news items. >(Moderated)
soc.adoption.adoptees Discussion of adoption by adoptees. (Moderated) >soc.atheism Living as an atheist and atheism in society. >(Moderated)
soc.culture.african.american.moderated African-American perspectives. >(Moderated)
soc.culture.basque Basque culture and related issues. (Moderated) >soc.culture.belarus All things about Belarus. (Moderated) >soc.culture.hawaii Aloha kakou, E KOMO MAI! Eh, no forget hemo da
shoes. (Moderated)
soc.culture.indian.goa About Goa, India's smallest state. (Moderated) >soc.culture.jewish.parenting Issues about raising Jewish children. >(Moderated)
soc.culture.kuwait.moderated Kuwaiti culture, society, and history. >(Moderated)
soc.culture.turkish.moderated Issues related to Turks/Turkey. (Moderated) >soc.feminism Discussion of feminism & feminist issues.
(Moderated)
soc.genealogy.african Genealogy of Africa and the African Diaspora. >(Moderated)
soc.genealogy.surnames.britain Surnames queries - Great Britain.
(Moderated)
soc.genealogy.surnames.canada Surnames queries - Canada. (Moderated) >soc.genealogy.surnames.german Surnames queries - German speaking
countries. (Moderated)
soc.genealogy.surnames.global Surnames queries central database. >(Moderated)
soc.genealogy.surnames.misc Surnames - regions not covered
elsewhere. (Moderated)
soc.genealogy.surnames.usa Surnames queries - USA. (Moderated) >soc.history.moderated All aspects of history. (Moderated)
soc.personals Personal ads -- people in search of (ISO)
others. (Moderated)
soc.politics Political problems, systems, solutions. (Moderated) >soc.politics.marxism Karl Marx and his legacy in theory and practice. >(Moderated)
soc.religion.asatru Following the Gods and Goddesses of Northern
Europe. (Moderated)
soc.religion.bahai Discussion of the Baha'i Faith. (Moderated) >soc.religion.hindu Discussion about the Hindu dharma, philosophy, >culture. (Moderated)
soc.religion.mormon The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. >(Moderated)
soc.religion.paganism Networking for Pagans. (Moderated) >soc.religion.unitarian-univ Unitarian-Universalism & non-creedal >religions. (Moderated)
soc.sexuality.spanking Adult sexual spanking. (Moderated) >soc.support.fat-acceptance.moderated Self-acceptance for fat people. >(Moderated)
soc.support.loneliness Mutual help and chat for those of us who feel
alone. (Moderated)
soc.support.youth.gay-lesbian-bi Gay youths helping each other. >(Moderated)
If you have any objections, please make them heard in moderated group >news.groups.proposals. The "Followup-To:" header is set on this message,
so simply replying to this post should do the right thing.
On 05.01.2025 09:04 Uhr noel wrote:
If nobody is moderating the groups, why not unmoderate them instead
of removing them, if they get use, fair enough, if not, there is no
harm, no extra resources used other than a handful of bytes for a one
line entry in active file which already has thousands of unmoderated
groups that haven't been posted to in 10 years anway.
The group lists are full of unused groups and that makes finding active >groups much harder, so cleaning that up is always a good idea. We are
here to discuss which of the groups might be still relevant and might
be revived.
. . .
Well there are things I haven't posted about because I couldn't
find a vaguely relevant group. . . .
             REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)When these groups are removed, the history associated with the contents
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the following
101 moderated newsgroups.
Path: news..!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Steve Bonine <spb@pobox.com>
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 1st RfD: Mass-deletion of moderated groups without a moderator >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2025 10:28:30 -0600
Message-ID: <vlm93g$2s1vg$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vla2t6$5g57$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; ..="abuse@eternal-september.org";
...
Big-8 Management Board wrote:
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the following
101 moderated newsgroups.
When these groups are removed, the history associated with the contents
of the group will disappear. I do not know how much this matters. There
are cases where someone doing research could use the information, but it
is rare. But when it's gone, it's gone.
If I thought that the removal of 101 groups would make a difference in >anything that matters, I would be more supportive. But this is a drop
in the bucket in terms of the number of inactive groups. The effect of
this change would be to slightly reduce the chance of someone posting
into a newsgroup that they found by doing a name search and their action >being a waste of time because there is no moderator or no users of the
group.
The bottom line for me is that it's not worth investing the effort at
this point in the life of Usenet. But it's not my time . . .
Big-8 Management Board wrote:
             REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove theWhen these groups are removed, the history associated with the
following 101 moderated newsgroups.
contents of the group will disappear. I do not know how much this
matters. There are cases where someone doing research could use the information, but it is rare. But when it's gone, it's gone.
Big-8 Management Board wrote:
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the
following 101 moderated newsgroups.
On 08.01.2025 10:28 Uhr Steve Bonine responded:
Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> replied:When these groups are removed, the history associated with the
contents of the group will disappear. I do not know how much this
matters. There are cases where someone doing research could use the
information, but it is rare. But when it's gone, it's gone.
Those groups were mostly unused more than 10 years, most servers won't
carry any articles anymore.
I think the concern is a bit different: there are some hosts that try to archive the entire history of their chosen set of newsgroups (e.g., non-binary groups) and that have articles from, say, 21 years ago or
more. If removing a newsgroup makes that history unavailable, that's a concern. ISTM that deleting a newsgroup, and the archive host honoring
that delete control message, would make articles in that group
unavailable via NNTP, so the archiver would have to set up an alternate
way of accessing the old articles, even assuming they were careful
enough to preserve the articles when the group is deleted.
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the
following 101 moderated newsgroups.
When these groups are removed, the history associated with the
contents of the group will disappear. I do not know how much this
matters. There are cases where someone doing research could use the
information, but it is rare. But when it's gone, it's gone.
Those groups were mostly unused more than 10 years, most servers won't
carry any articles anymore.
The group's history itself can still be found at the ISC ftp server,
all control messages, including descriptions, can be found there.
Big-8 Management Board wrote:
             REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the
following 101 moderated newsgroups.
On 08.01.2025 10:28 Uhr Steve Bonine responded:
Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> replied:When these groups are removed, the history associated with the
contents of the group will disappear. I do not know how much this
matters. There are cases where someone doing research could use the
information, but it is rare. But when it's gone, it's gone.
Those groups were mostly unused more than 10 years, most servers won't
carry any articles anymore.
I think the concern is a bit different: there are some hosts that try to archive the entire history of their chosen set of newsgroups (e.g., non-binary groups) and that have articles from, say, 21 years ago or
more. If removing a newsgroup makes that history unavailable, that's a concern. ISTM that deleting a newsgroup, and the archive host honoring
that delete control message, would make articles in that group
unavailable via NNTP, so the archiver would have to set up an alternate
way of accessing the old articles, even assuming they were careful
enough to preserve the articles when the group is deleted.
The group's history itself can still be found at the ISC ftp server,
all control messages, including descriptions, can be found there.
I'm assuming ISC's history is the management history of the group, not
all the articles ever posted to the group. I don't think that's the
history Steve is concerned about.
Big-8 Management Board <board@big-8.org> wrote:
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the following
101 moderated newsgroups.
The audience for potential moderators of these specific newsgroups is
not to be found here in news.groups.
DISTRIBUTION:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
news.groups
[...]
Brilliant stuff there, Way to literally go behind everybody's back.
I look forward to your next trick, mass rmgrouping of unmoderated Big 8 newsgroups.
If you have any objections, please make them heard in moderated group
news.groups.proposals. The "Followup-To:" header is set on this message,
so simply replying to this post should do the right thing.
You MUST NOT instruct me where to post my followup, It's my decision,
not yours.
2025-01-04 09:30, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Big-8 Management Board <board@big-8.org> wrote:
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the following
101 moderated newsgroups.
The audience for potential moderators of these specific newsgroups is
not to be found here in news.groups.
DISTRIBUTION:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
news.groups
[...]
Brilliant stuff there, Way to literally go behind everybody's back.
Where do you suggest we post the RFD, then?
Should we cross-post the RFD to all of the affected groups?
Should we post a separate copy of the RFD to each of the affected
groups? Again, I'm worried this might trigger some automated
spam/flooding filters. But again, maybe I am wrong about this.
Besides the affected groups, is there a better place to reach an
audience of potential moderators?
I look forward to your next trick, mass rmgrouping of unmoderated Big 8 >>newsgroups.
This has been done several times in the past, as documented on our
website at <https://www.big-8.org/wiki/The_Great_Downsizing_2011/1> and ><https://www.big-8.org/wiki/The_Great_Downsizing_2011/2>.
If you have any objections, please make them heard in moderated group >>>news.groups.proposals. The "Followup-To:" header is set on this message, >>>so simply replying to this post should do the right thing.
You MUST NOT instruct me where to post my followup, It's my decision,
not yours.
No one is instructing you to do anything. Our message *requests* you to >reply on news.groups.proposals as this is the only place the Board is >guaranteed to be monitoring the discussion.
In 2022 we initiated an RFD on whether to continue using >news.groups.proposals in this way, or to switch to the unmoderated >news.groups. It doesn't appear as though we received any comments from
you. The community's reaction to the RFD was mixed and so the Board
voted to preserve the status quo. That said, you (or anyone else) is
welcome to start another RFD of your own.
Greetings.
On 2025-01-04 09:30, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Big-8 Management Board <board@big-8.org> wrote:
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the following
101 moderated newsgroups.
The audience for potential moderators of these specific newsgroups is
not to be found here in news.groups.
DISTRIBUTION:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
news.groups
[...]
Brilliant stuff there, Way to literally go behind everybody's back.
Where do you suggest we post the RFD, then?
Should we cross-post the RFD to all of the affected groups? I doubt our
own news server would accept such an article, and others might also
reject it for excessive cross-posting. But maybe I am wrong.
Should we post a separate copy of the RFD to each of the affected
groups? Again, I'm worried this might trigger some automated
spam/flooding filters. But again, maybe I am wrong about this.
Besides the affected groups, is there a better place to reach an
audience of potential moderators?
| Sysop: | Keyop |
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