• Here's a worthwhile read.

    From Tony@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 5 18:56:28 2024
    XPost: nz.politics

    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Sat Apr 6 11:49:32 2024
    On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 18:56:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar >Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    Indeed it is nonsense, Tony - but it is free speech; even The Platform
    is entitled to publish opinions that most disagree with. Chris
    Finlayson is often right (as well as being "Right"), but he is not
    blind to the stupidity of some - in referring to “the sour right” and
    “the KKK brigade” he was taking a shot at all extremists, which
    clearly include those writing for "The Platform" (as well as other
    media favoured by the author - for example NZCPR, Point of Order, BFD,
    Karl du Fresne, and Bassett, Brash and Hide).

    The article conflates "the transfer of property rights to iwi hapu and
    whanau" to unrestricted ownership rights. As the article says: "The
    law confers the right for iwi and hapu to be involved in coastal
    planning and policy development, including vetoing resource consents
    in an area from the high tide mark to 12 nautical miles out to sea.
    This could affect applications to set up fish farms, marinas, offshore
    wind turbines or to build new wharves in their designated areas."

    That does not mean the same as ownership, nor did the legislation
    grant that. What it does however do is prevent just the sort of
    untrammeled private rights that Graham Adams does not want, and which
    have caused problems in the past - Waiheke Island being one example .
    . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to Tony on Fri Apr 5 22:56:58 2024
    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, even
    after a battle has been won.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sat Apr 6 00:32:12 2024
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 18:56:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar >>Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    Nonsense removed.
    Rich is a sarcastic nonentity, with less intelligence than a rabid rat.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Gordon on Sat Apr 6 00:33:25 2024
    Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar >> Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, even >after a battle has been won.
    We need to remain vigilant and identify the damaging idiots like Rich whenever we can.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sat Apr 6 03:09:19 2024
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 5 Apr 2024 22:56:58 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar
    Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, even >>after a battle has been won.

    The Treaty of Waitangi was signed by all parties in order to stop
    warfare, and commitments were made by all parties to that Treaty as to
    rights and obligations. The Courts are continuing to interpret that
    Treaty in accordance with legal principles. What battle or war are you >referring to, Gordon?
    Even you can't seriously not know. In fact, you obviously do know. The battle is simple. An elite minority of this country wants more than their fair share of this land and all it contains.
    And you know it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sat Apr 6 03:13:49 2024
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:32:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 18:56:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar
    Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    Nonsense removed.
    Rich is a sarcastic nonentity, with less intelligence than a rabid rat. >Hiding from reality will get you nowhere Tony
    I agree but I don't do that. You do.
    , but it does seem to be
    Abuse removed.

    Nonsense removed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Sat Apr 6 16:03:04 2024
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:32:12 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 18:56:28 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar >>>Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    Nonsense removed.
    Rich is a sarcastic nonentity, with less intelligence than a rabid rat.
    Hiding from reality will get you nowhere Tony, but it does seem to be
    habitual with you. nz.general is a discussion group - if you cannot
    discuss anything, perhaps you would be better off sticking to the BFD
    and other extremist websites - they feature mindless posts to attract
    mindless comments.

    So to help you, here is the comment again:

    "Indeed it is nonsense, Tony - but it is free speech; even The
    Platform is entitled to publish opinions that most disagree with.
    Chris Finlayson is often right (as well as being "Right"), but he is
    not blind to the stupidity of some - in referring to “the sour right”
    and “the KKK brigade” he was taking a shot at all extremists, which
    clearly include those writing for "The Platform" (as well as other
    media favoured by the author - for example NZCPR, Point of Order, BFD,
    Karl du Fresne, and Bassett, Brash and Hide).

    The article conflates "the transfer of property rights to iwi hapu and
    whanau" to unrestricted ownership rights. As the article says: "The
    law confers the right for iwi and hapu to be involved in coastal
    planning and policy development, including vetoing resource consents
    in an area from the high tide mark to 12 nautical miles out to sea.
    This could affect applications to set up fish farms, marinas, offshore
    wind turbines or to build new wharves in their designated areas."

    That does not mean the same as ownership, nor did the legislation
    grant that. What it does however do is prevent just the sort of
    untrammeled private rights that Graham Adams does not want, and which
    have caused problems in the past - Waiheke Island being one example."
    . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to Gordon on Sat Apr 6 15:19:51 2024
    On 5 Apr 2024 22:56:58 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar >> Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, even >after a battle has been won.

    The Treaty of Waitangi was signed by all parties in order to stop
    warfare, and commitments were made by all parties to that Treaty as to
    rights and obligations. The Courts are continuing to interpret that
    Treaty in accordance with legal principles. What battle or war are you referring to, Gordon?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Sat Apr 6 16:31:09 2024
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 03:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 5 Apr 2024 22:56:58 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar
    Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, even >>>after a battle has been won.

    The Treaty of Waitangi was signed by all parties in order to stop
    warfare, and commitments were made by all parties to that Treaty as to >>rights and obligations. The Courts are continuing to interpret that
    Treaty in accordance with legal principles. What battle or war are you >>referring to, Gordon?
    Even you can't seriously not know. In fact, you obviously do know. The battle >is simple. An elite minority of this country wants more than their fair share >of this land and all it contains.
    And you know it.

    Just think about who won the last election, Tony! - although "elite"
    is how NACT1st see themselves of course, but one of the earliest
    changes they made was to deliver millions to landlords; they are now
    having a few problems financing the cutting of the top tax rate, but
    they will do that as well if they possibly can.

    But the original article was talking about the Treaty of Waitangi -
    those claiming redress have demonstrably not received compensation for
    losses; but have generally accepted that what little is being given is
    likely as good as it is likely to get from any NZ Government. Those
    Maori claimants are clearly not "elite" in the context of modern New
    Zealand - they have lower assets, lower income, lower life expectancy,
    lower levels of health, and that reality has been accepted by
    successive governments of whatever political views.

    So you may well be correct, Tony - an elite group of very wealthy
    people have financially supported National and ACT, and are now
    wanting repayment, and the only way the political parties in
    government (and that includes NZ First) can see to keep the gravy
    train coming is to succumb to the blackmail. . . .

    So it may surprise you to find that we agree, Tony - the very wealthy
    and the political parties that have bee prepared to sell policies for
    political favours did succeed in getting into government; and their
    first priority it to pay back for that financial support.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sat Apr 6 05:42:15 2024
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 03:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 5 Apr 2024 22:56:58 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar
    Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, even >>>>after a battle has been won.

    The Treaty of Waitangi was signed by all parties in order to stop >>>warfare, and commitments were made by all parties to that Treaty as to >>>rights and obligations. The Courts are continuing to interpret that >>>Treaty in accordance with legal principles. What battle or war are you >>>referring to, Gordon?
    Even you can't seriously not know. In fact, you obviously do know. The battle >>is simple. An elite minority of this country wants more than their fair share >>of this land and all it contains.
    And you know it.

    Just think about who won the last election, Tony!
    Unlike you I know who won. The people of NZ. You and your elite loving followers lost ignominiously, as deserved.
    - although "elite"
    is how NACT1st see themselves of course, but one of the earliest
    changes they made was to deliver millions to landlords; they are now
    having a few problems financing the cutting of the top tax rate, but
    they will do that as well if they possibly can.
    You really are a silly little possum - you think that sarcsam and deliberately changing the sense of what people write is debating - wrong little mouse - it is incompetent and lunacy.

    But the original article was talking about the Treaty of Waitangi -
    those claiming redress have demonstrably not received compensation for >losses; but have generally accepted that what little is being given is
    likely as good as it is likely to get from any NZ Government. Those
    Maori claimants are clearly not "elite" in the context of modern New
    Zealand - they have lower assets, lower income, lower life expectancy,
    lower levels of health, and that reality has been accepted by
    successive governments of whatever political views.
    Wrong.

    So you may well be correct, Tony - an elite group of very wealthy
    people have financially supported National and ACT, and are now
    wanting repayment, and the only way the political parties in
    government (and that includes NZ First) can see to keep the gravy
    train coming is to succumb to the blackmail. . . .
    ACT is not elite, you are an elite gutter dweller. The tribal elite are the ones that you should be afraid of. When they clean house, you will be the firat in the dumpster.

    Garbage thrown out.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Sun Apr 7 17:09:00 2024
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:42:15 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 03:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 5 Apr 2024 22:56:58 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar
    Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, even >>>>>after a battle has been won.

    The Treaty of Waitangi was signed by all parties in order to stop >>>>warfare, and commitments were made by all parties to that Treaty as to >>>>rights and obligations. The Courts are continuing to interpret that >>>>Treaty in accordance with legal principles. What battle or war are you >>>>referring to, Gordon?
    Even you can't seriously not know. In fact, you obviously do know. The battle
    is simple. An elite minority of this country wants more than their fair share
    of this land and all it contains.
    And you know it.

    Just think about who won the last election, Tony!
    Unlike you I know who won. The people of NZ. You and your elite loving >followers lost ignominiously, as deserved.
    I appreciate that is exactly how you feel, Tony. You are exactly like
    the coalition MPs - if asked they will say they are looking after New Zealanders, but when pressed will admit that they really mean those
    that funded their parties, and members of their political parties, and
    some of those that voted for them, but that those that did not vote
    for the government are not part of the people of NZ.


    - although "elite"
    is how NACT1st see themselves of course, but one of the earliest
    changes they made was to deliver millions to landlords; they are now
    having a few problems financing the cutting of the top tax rate, but
    they will do that as well if they possibly can.
    You really are a silly little possum - you think that sarcsam and deliberately >changing the sense of what people write is debating - wrong little mouse - it >is incompetent and lunacy.
    No sarcasm, but for you to deliberately misunderstand what I actually
    said says more about you than about me.


    But the original article was talking about the Treaty of Waitangi -
    those claiming redress have demonstrably not received compensation for >>losses; but have generally accepted that what little is being given is >>likely as good as it is likely to get from any NZ Government. Those
    Maori claimants are clearly not "elite" in the context of modern New >>Zealand - they have lower assets, lower income, lower life expectancy, >>lower levels of health, and that reality has been accepted by
    successive governments of whatever political views.
    Wrong.
    Being wrong is not discouraging the Coalition of chaos though and ACT
    are walking all over the novice - and National will do anything to
    repay their funders . . .


    So you may well be correct, Tony - an elite group of very wealthy
    people have financially supported National and ACT, and are now
    wanting repayment, and the only way the political parties in
    government (and that includes NZ First) can see to keep the gravy
    train coming is to succumb to the blackmail. . . .
    ACT is not elite, you are an elite gutter dweller. The tribal elite are the >ones that you should be afraid of. When they clean house, you will be the firat
    in the dumpster.
    I agree, neither ACT or National are "elite" - but they think they
    are; those with the real power are those that fund them, whether
    directly, or through the NZ Taxpayers Union or to a lesser extent
    through the NZ Initiative. They are of course another group that see themselves as elite; but within that broad group are quite a few
    smaller tribal groups - the owners, directors and drivers of groups
    like the banks, the supermarkets, the dairy owners, the fuel
    companies, electricity generators - all wanting to keep cozy cartels
    going, and to keep their pockets full - they have tribal loyalties as
    deep as their pockets . . . But you do not need to be concerned
    about them, Tony, they need dweeb consumers that are easily conned to
    keep spending money where it produces the best profits, and to keep
    voting for the "Right" - at times referred to as 'useful idiots'.



    Garbage thrown out.
    I had wondered what sort of a job you retired from, Tony - collecting
    garbage and taking it to the tip is an honourable job; I am sure you
    did it well, but you accidentally missed some good stuff (a couple of
    minor changes to reduce your confusion . . .) :

    "So you may well be correct, Tony - an elite group of very wealthy
    people have financially supported National and ACT, and are now
    wanting repayment, and the only way the political parties in
    government (and that includes NZ First) can see to keep the gravy
    train coming is to succumb to the blackmail. . . .

    So it may surprise you to find that we agree, Tony - the very wealthy
    and the political parties that have been prepared to sell policies for political favours did succeed in getting into government; and their
    first priority is to pay back that financial support. "

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sun Apr 7 06:36:55 2024
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:42:15 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 03:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 5 Apr 2024 22:56:58 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar
    Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, even >>>>>>after a battle has been won.

    The Treaty of Waitangi was signed by all parties in order to stop >>>>>warfare, and commitments were made by all parties to that Treaty as to >>>>>rights and obligations. The Courts are continuing to interpret that >>>>>Treaty in accordance with legal principles. What battle or war are you >>>>>referring to, Gordon?
    Even you can't seriously not know. In fact, you obviously do know. The >>>>battle
    is simple. An elite minority of this country wants more than their fair >>>>share
    of this land and all it contains.
    And you know it.

    Just think about who won the last election, Tony!
    Unlike you I know who won. The people of NZ. You and your elite loving >>followers lost ignominiously, as deserved.
    I appreciate that is exactly how you feel, Tony. You are exactly like
    the coalition MPs - if asked they will say they are looking after New >Zealanders, but when pressed will admit that they really mean those
    that funded their parties, and members of their political parties, and
    some of those that voted for them, but that those that did not vote
    for the government are not part of the people of NZ.
    Everyone that voted is part of the people of this country, where were yhou raised? Russia or Chine?


    - although "elite"
    is how NACT1st see themselves of course, but one of the earliest
    changes they made was to deliver millions to landlords; they are now >>>having a few problems financing the cutting of the top tax rate, but
    they will do that as well if they possibly can.
    You really are a silly little possum - you think that sarcsam and >>deliberately
    changing the sense of what people write is debating - wrong little mouse - it >>is incompetent and lunacy.
    No sarcasm, but for you to deliberately misunderstand what I actually
    said says more about you than about me.
    You were sarcastic as usual. I understand you very well.


    But the original article was talking about the Treaty of Waitangi -
    those claiming redress have demonstrably not received compensation for >>>losses; but have generally accepted that what little is being given is >>>likely as good as it is likely to get from any NZ Government. Those
    Maori claimants are clearly not "elite" in the context of modern New >>>Zealand - they have lower assets, lower income, lower life expectancy, >>>lower levels of health, and that reality has been accepted by
    successive governments of whatever political views.
    Wrong.
    Being wrong is not discouraging the Coalition of chaos though and ACT
    are walking all over the novice - and National will do anything to
    repay their funders . . .
    You are wrong.


    So you may well be correct, Tony - an elite group of very wealthy
    people have financially supported National and ACT, and are now
    wanting repayment, and the only way the political parties in
    government (and that includes NZ First) can see to keep the gravy
    train coming is to succumb to the blackmail. . . .
    ACT is not elite, you are an elite gutter dweller. The tribal elite are the >>ones that you should be afraid of. When they clean house, you will be the >>firat
    in the dumpster.
    abuse gone.


    Garbage thrown out.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Sun Apr 7 20:52:06 2024
    On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 06:36:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:42:15 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 03:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 5 Apr 2024 22:56:58 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar
    Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, even
    after a battle has been won.

    The Treaty of Waitangi was signed by all parties in order to stop >>>>>>warfare, and commitments were made by all parties to that Treaty as to >>>>>>rights and obligations. The Courts are continuing to interpret that >>>>>>Treaty in accordance with legal principles. What battle or war are you >>>>>>referring to, Gordon?
    Even you can't seriously not know. In fact, you obviously do know. The >>>>>battle
    is simple. An elite minority of this country wants more than their fair >>>>>share
    of this land and all it contains.
    And you know it.

    Just think about who won the last election, Tony!
    Unlike you I know who won. The people of NZ. You and your elite loving >>>followers lost ignominiously, as deserved.
    I appreciate that is exactly how you feel, Tony. You are exactly like
    the coalition MPs - if asked they will say they are looking after New >>Zealanders, but when pressed will admit that they really mean those
    that funded their parties, and members of their political parties, and
    some of those that voted for them, but that those that did not vote
    for the government are not part of the people of NZ.
    Everyone that voted is part of the people of this country, where were yhou >raised? Russia or Chine?

    Correct Tony. The totally unpalatable truth to Rich, that he can
    never rationally refute, is that the new Government is doing exactly
    what the 3 parties that are part of it campaigned to do.

    In contrast, the 3-waters legislation was never part of Labour's
    policy platform going into the 2020 election.


    - although "elite"
    is how NACT1st see themselves of course, but one of the earliest >>>>changes they made was to deliver millions to landlords; they are now >>>>having a few problems financing the cutting of the top tax rate, but >>>>they will do that as well if they possibly can.
    You really are a silly little possum - you think that sarcsam and >>>deliberately
    changing the sense of what people write is debating - wrong little mouse - it
    is incompetent and lunacy.
    No sarcasm, but for you to deliberately misunderstand what I actually
    said says more about you than about me.
    You were sarcastic as usual. I understand you very well.


    But the original article was talking about the Treaty of Waitangi - >>>>those claiming redress have demonstrably not received compensation for >>>>losses; but have generally accepted that what little is being given is >>>>likely as good as it is likely to get from any NZ Government. Those >>>>Maori claimants are clearly not "elite" in the context of modern New >>>>Zealand - they have lower assets, lower income, lower life expectancy, >>>>lower levels of health, and that reality has been accepted by >>>>successive governments of whatever political views.
    Wrong.
    Being wrong is not discouraging the Coalition of chaos though and ACT
    are walking all over the novice - and National will do anything to
    repay their funders . . .
    You are wrong.

    Yes he is. Rich perpetuates that contributors to National/NZF/ACT
    somehow expect payback that contributors to the political parities he
    is sympathetic to do not. He might have a point with NZF but he does
    not have the ability to do the hard yards to credibly make any
    accusation stick beyond an ideological connection.



    So you may well be correct, Tony - an elite group of very wealthy >>>>people have financially supported National and ACT, and are now
    wanting repayment, and the only way the political parties in
    government (and that includes NZ First) can see to keep the gravy
    train coming is to succumb to the blackmail. . . .
    ACT is not elite, you are an elite gutter dweller. The tribal elite are the >>>ones that you should be afraid of. When they clean house, you will be the >>>firat
    in the dumpster.
    abuse gone.


    Garbage thrown out.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Sun Apr 7 21:28:45 2024
    On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 06:36:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:42:15 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 03:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 5 Apr 2024 22:56:58 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar
    Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, even
    after a battle has been won.

    The Treaty of Waitangi was signed by all parties in order to stop >>>>>>warfare, and commitments were made by all parties to that Treaty as to >>>>>>rights and obligations. The Courts are continuing to interpret that >>>>>>Treaty in accordance with legal principles. What battle or war are you >>>>>>referring to, Gordon?
    Even you can't seriously not know. In fact, you obviously do know. The >>>>>battle
    is simple. An elite minority of this country wants more than their fair >>>>>share
    of this land and all it contains.
    And you know it.

    Just think about who won the last election, Tony!
    Unlike you I know who won. The people of NZ. You and your elite loving >>>followers lost ignominiously, as deserved.
    I appreciate that is exactly how you feel, Tony. You are exactly like
    the coalition MPs - if asked they will say they are looking after New >>Zealanders, but when pressed will admit that they really mean those
    that funded their parties, and members of their political parties, and
    some of those that voted for them, but that those that did not vote
    for the government are not part of the people of NZ.
    Everyone that voted is part of the people of this country, where were yhou >raised? Russia or Chine?
    You defined all those who won the election as the people of New
    Zealand, and then make it clear that nearly 50% of those whose votes
    did not elect a different government as not having won. I am sorry
    that you were confused.




    - although "elite"
    is how NACT1st see themselves of course, but one of the earliest >>>>changes they made was to deliver millions to landlords; they are now >>>>having a few problems financing the cutting of the top tax rate, but >>>>they will do that as well if they possibly can.
    You really are a silly little possum - you think that sarcsam and >>>deliberately
    changing the sense of what people write is debating - wrong little mouse - it
    is incompetent and lunacy.
    No sarcasm, but for you to deliberately misunderstand what I actually
    said says more about you than about me.
    You were sarcastic as usual. I understand you very well.


    But the original article was talking about the Treaty of Waitangi - >>>>those claiming redress have demonstrably not received compensation for >>>>losses; but have generally accepted that what little is being given is >>>>likely as good as it is likely to get from any NZ Government. Those >>>>Maori claimants are clearly not "elite" in the context of modern New >>>>Zealand - they have lower assets, lower income, lower life expectancy, >>>>lower levels of health, and that reality has been accepted by >>>>successive governments of whatever political views.
    Wrong.
    Being wrong is not discouraging the Coalition of chaos though and ACT
    are walking all over the novice - and National will do anything to
    repay their funders . . .
    You are wrong.


    So you may well be correct, Tony - an elite group of very wealthy >>>>people have financially supported National and ACT, and are now
    wanting repayment, and the only way the political parties in
    government (and that includes NZ First) can see to keep the gravy
    train coming is to succumb to the blackmail. . . .
    ACT is not elite, you are an elite gutter dweller. The tribal elite are the >>>ones that you should be afraid of. When they clean house, you will be the >>>firat
    in the dumpster.
    abuse gone.


    Garbage thrown out.
    Yet again Tony acknowledges that he is frightened enough by posts that
    he does not understand that he thinks deleting them will hide his
    inability to give any coherent arguments to the contrary. I am sure
    you have been told before Tony that for most people reading
    nz.general, it is trivial to look back in a thread to read previous
    posts. Do you need how to do that explained to you again?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Sun Apr 7 20:20:44 2024
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 06:36:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:42:15 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 03:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 5 Apr 2024 22:56:58 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar
    Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, >>>>>>>>even
    after a battle has been won.

    The Treaty of Waitangi was signed by all parties in order to stop >>>>>>>warfare, and commitments were made by all parties to that Treaty as to >>>>>>>rights and obligations. The Courts are continuing to interpret that >>>>>>>Treaty in accordance with legal principles. What battle or war are you >>>>>>>referring to, Gordon?
    Even you can't seriously not know. In fact, you obviously do know. The >>>>>>battle
    is simple. An elite minority of this country wants more than their fair >>>>>>share
    of this land and all it contains.
    And you know it.

    Just think about who won the last election, Tony!
    Unlike you I know who won. The people of NZ. You and your elite loving >>>>followers lost ignominiously, as deserved.
    I appreciate that is exactly how you feel, Tony. You are exactly like
    the coalition MPs - if asked they will say they are looking after New >>>Zealanders, but when pressed will admit that they really mean those
    that funded their parties, and members of their political parties, and >>>some of those that voted for them, but that those that did not vote
    for the government are not part of the people of NZ.
    Everyone that voted is part of the people of this country, where were yhou >>raised? Russia or Chine?
    You defined all those who won the election as the people of New
    Zealand, and then make it clear that nearly 50% of those whose votes
    did not elect a different government as not having won. I am sorry
    that you were confused.
    See Crash's respond and then piss off.
    You are a liar. Proven, over and ove again.
    Noiw piss off.




    - although "elite"
    is how NACT1st see themselves of course, but one of the earliest >>>>>changes they made was to deliver millions to landlords; they are now >>>>>having a few problems financing the cutting of the top tax rate, but >>>>>they will do that as well if they possibly can.
    You really are a silly little possum - you think that sarcsam and >>>>deliberately
    changing the sense of what people write is debating - wrong little mouse - >>>>it
    is incompetent and lunacy.
    No sarcasm, but for you to deliberately misunderstand what I actually >>>said says more about you than about me.
    You were sarcastic as usual. I understand you very well.


    But the original article was talking about the Treaty of Waitangi - >>>>>those claiming redress have demonstrably not received compensation for >>>>>losses; but have generally accepted that what little is being given is >>>>>likely as good as it is likely to get from any NZ Government. Those >>>>>Maori claimants are clearly not "elite" in the context of modern New >>>>>Zealand - they have lower assets, lower income, lower life expectancy, >>>>>lower levels of health, and that reality has been accepted by >>>>>successive governments of whatever political views.
    Wrong.
    Being wrong is not discouraging the Coalition of chaos though and ACT
    are walking all over the novice - and National will do anything to
    repay their funders . . .
    You are wrong.


    So you may well be correct, Tony - an elite group of very wealthy >>>>>people have financially supported National and ACT, and are now >>>>>wanting repayment, and the only way the political parties in >>>>>government (and that includes NZ First) can see to keep the gravy >>>>>train coming is to succumb to the blackmail. . . .
    ACT is not elite, you are an elite gutter dweller. The tribal elite are the >>>>ones that you should be afraid of. When they clean house, you will be the >>>>firat
    in the dumpster.
    abuse gone.


    Garbage thrown out.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Crash on Sun Apr 7 20:36:23 2024
    Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 06:36:55 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:42:15 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 03:09:19 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 5 Apr 2024 22:56:58 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

    On 2024-04-05, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar
    Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    This is to be expected. In cases such as these it is an ongoing war, >>>>>>>>even
    after a battle has been won.

    The Treaty of Waitangi was signed by all parties in order to stop >>>>>>>warfare, and commitments were made by all parties to that Treaty as to >>>>>>>rights and obligations. The Courts are continuing to interpret that >>>>>>>Treaty in accordance with legal principles. What battle or war are you >>>>>>>referring to, Gordon?
    Even you can't seriously not know. In fact, you obviously do know. The >>>>>>battle
    is simple. An elite minority of this country wants more than their fair >>>>>>share
    of this land and all it contains.
    And you know it.

    Just think about who won the last election, Tony!
    Unlike you I know who won. The people of NZ. You and your elite loving >>>>followers lost ignominiously, as deserved.
    I appreciate that is exactly how you feel, Tony. You are exactly like
    the coalition MPs - if asked they will say they are looking after New >>>Zealanders, but when pressed will admit that they really mean those
    that funded their parties, and members of their political parties, and >>>some of those that voted for them, but that those that did not vote
    for the government are not part of the people of NZ.
    Everyone that voted is part of the people of this country, where were yhou >>raised? Russia or Chine?

    Correct Tony. The totally unpalatable truth to Rich, that he can
    never rationally refute, is that the new Government is doing exactly
    what the 3 parties that are part of it campaigned to do.

    In contrast, the 3-waters legislation was never part of Labour's
    policy platform going into the 2020 election.
    If he wasn't such an unpleasant person I would feel sorry for him - but he knows he is wrong and still pushes ideology that has long since been shown to be dangerous and undemocratic.


    - although "elite"
    is how NACT1st see themselves of course, but one of the earliest >>>>>changes they made was to deliver millions to landlords; they are now >>>>>having a few problems financing the cutting of the top tax rate, but >>>>>they will do that as well if they possibly can.
    You really are a silly little possum - you think that sarcsam and >>>>deliberately
    changing the sense of what people write is debating - wrong little mouse - >>>>it
    is incompetent and lunacy.
    No sarcasm, but for you to deliberately misunderstand what I actually >>>said says more about you than about me.
    You were sarcastic as usual. I understand you very well.


    But the original article was talking about the Treaty of Waitangi - >>>>>those claiming redress have demonstrably not received compensation for >>>>>losses; but have generally accepted that what little is being given is >>>>>likely as good as it is likely to get from any NZ Government. Those >>>>>Maori claimants are clearly not "elite" in the context of modern New >>>>>Zealand - they have lower assets, lower income, lower life expectancy, >>>>>lower levels of health, and that reality has been accepted by >>>>>successive governments of whatever political views.
    Wrong.
    Being wrong is not discouraging the Coalition of chaos though and ACT
    are walking all over the novice - and National will do anything to
    repay their funders . . .
    You are wrong.

    Yes he is. Rich perpetuates that contributors to National/NZF/ACT
    somehow expect payback that contributors to the political parities he
    is sympathetic to do not. He might have a point with NZF but he does
    not have the ability to do the hard yards to credibly make any
    accusation stick beyond an ideological connection.
    Astonishingly he knows that there is nobody here that agrees with him, and I suspect only the certifiably insane do elsewhere.



    So you may well be correct, Tony - an elite group of very wealthy >>>>>people have financially supported National and ACT, and are now >>>>>wanting repayment, and the only way the political parties in >>>>>government (and that includes NZ First) can see to keep the gravy >>>>>train coming is to succumb to the blackmail. . . .
    ACT is not elite, you are an elite gutter dweller. The tribal elite are the >>>>ones that you should be afraid of. When they clean house, you will be the >>>>firat
    in the dumpster.
    abuse gone.


    Garbage thrown out.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mutley@21:1/5 to Tony on Mon Apr 8 15:26:35 2024
    XPost: nz.politics

    Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar >Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    Sounds like Chris Finlayson should be made an honorary member of the
    Maori Party

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Mutley on Mon Apr 8 05:16:37 2024
    XPost: nz.politics

    Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
    Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar >>Democracy under threat still. Time to stop this nonsense.

    Sounds like Chris Finlayson should be made an honorary member of the
    Maori Party
    He would fit in well with anyone to the left of Marx.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)