https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those
sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax
rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for
people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect
one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking

Unproven lie.

was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those
sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax
rate.

Unproven lie.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for
people dependent on opiods.

And you are an expert of course (yes right!) - do you ever have a drink that contains alcohol?
I don't, nor do I smoke but you are addicted to something much worse than both - lies, defamation and deceit. You really hate New Zealanders don't you?

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect
one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

Clear only to your befuddled mind.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2024-04-06, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those
sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax
rate.

This is just plain incorrect, ot it mis-information. I corrected it, but as you are repeating it I can only believe that all/many/most of your points are incorrect.

It is only the highest income tax rate which is proposed to have an increase
in it.

Budget on May 30 should show this.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for
people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect
one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:47:08 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking

Unproven lie.

was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those
sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax
rate.

Unproven lie.

Not a lie, but it was needed for either the tax cuts or to pay for the
handout to landlords - given the timing the landlord priority may have triggered the stupid tobacco decision.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>people dependent on opiods.

And you are an expert of course (yes right!) - do you ever have a drink that >contains alcohol?
I don't, nor do I smoke but you are addicted to something much worse than both >- lies, defamation and deceit. You really hate New Zealanders don't you?

Well good for you - I have not drunk alcohol for quite a few years,
and have never smoked. Why are you trying to defend the government
condemning more young people to horrible deaths through smoking, which
has nothing to commend it?

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect
one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

Clear only to your befuddled mind.

I did realise that you had not understood the issues involved, Tony.
Getting rid of vapes should have been done earlier, but the CoC wanted
to give one manufacturer the chance to sell off excess stocks, and
they also need to revenue from the sales . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 6 Apr 2024 07:32:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

On 2024-04-06, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those
sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax
rate.

This is just plain incorrect, ot it mis-information. I corrected it, but as you
are repeating it I can only believe that all/many/most of your points are >incorrect.

I have not seen any post from you giving a different view on this
issue - and this is your first post since my post in this thread. I
do accept however that in referring to National that does not mean
that all members of that party agree with the actions taken - it is
possible that a majority of members regret the decision that was made,
but that is not sufficient for National to now change the actions that
were taken by the Coalition.

It is only the highest income tax rate which is proposed to have an increase >in it.

I would be interested in any reference you have to a government
statement indicating that the highest income tax rate is proposed to
be increased - can you give a reference to that?

Budget on May 30 should show this.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for
people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect
one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 07 Apr 2024 20:09:16 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:47:08 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking

Unproven lie.

was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>rate.

Unproven lie.

Not a lie, but it was needed for either the tax cuts or to pay for the >handout to landlords - given the timing the landlord priority may have >triggered the stupid tobacco decision.

Rich you cannot cute anything for this. Landlords were singled out by
Labour to remove mortgage interest as a tax-deductible expense when
all other businesses were permitted to claim it and the new Government
has simply removed this distortion.

The removal of restrictions on future tobacco retailing restrictions
was done on the basis that it was not required to sustain existing
success on tobacco smoking restrictions. You and others rely on
emotive claptrap rather them solid evidence that future-dated
restrictions were evidence-based as further restrictions on smoking.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>people dependent on opiods.

And you are an expert of course (yes right!) - do you ever have a drink that >>contains alcohol?
I don't, nor do I smoke but you are addicted to something much worse than both
- lies, defamation and deceit. You really hate New Zealanders don't you? >Well good for you - I have not drunk alcohol for quite a few years,

and have never smoked. Why are you trying to defend the government
condemning more young people to horrible deaths through smoking, which
has nothing to commend it?

Like me, Tony supports the notion that young people today have the
same free-will choices that you and I had when we were also young. We
did not require prohibition to make the right choices then. Evidently
you consider that today's young people cannot be trusted to make the
same decisions we did.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

Clear only to your befuddled mind.

I did realise that you had not understood the issues involved, Tony.
Getting rid of vapes should have been done earlier, but the CoC wanted
to give one manufacturer the chance to sell off excess stocks, and
they also need to revenue from the sales . . .

--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:47:08 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking

Unproven lie.

was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>rate.

Unproven lie.

Not a lie, but it was needed for either the tax cuts or to pay for the >handout to landlords - given the timing the landlord priority may have >triggered the stupid tobacco decision.

Of course it is a lie. As is the addition nonsense you have written.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>people dependent on opiods.

And you are an expert of course (yes right!) - do you ever have a drink that >>contains alcohol?
I don't, nor do I smoke but you are addicted to something much worse than >>both
- lies, defamation and deceit. You really hate New Zealanders don't you? >Well good for you - I have not drunk alcohol for quite a few years,

and have never smoked. Why are you trying to defend the government
condemning more young people to horrible deaths through smoking, which
has nothing to commend it?

I am defending nothiing, I am pointing out your repetitive lies and inability to ever follow logic unless it is political in nature. You are a repeat liar and a fraud, you don;t give a cuss about New Zealand or its people, only about your political crap.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

Clear only to your befuddled mind.

Abuse gone

Getting rid of vapes should have been done earlier, but the CoC wanted
to give one manufacturer the chance to sell off excess stocks, and
they also need to revenue from the sales . . .

Another lie.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 20:28:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:47:08 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to >>>>enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking

Unproven lie.

was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>>rate.

Unproven lie.

Not a lie, but it was needed for either the tax cuts or to pay for the >>handout to landlords - given the timing the landlord priority may have >>triggered the stupid tobacco decision.

Of course it is a lie. As is the addition nonsense you have written.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would >>>>cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available >>>>as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>>people dependent on opiods.

And you are an expert of course (yes right!) - do you ever have a drink that >>>contains alcohol?
I don't, nor do I smoke but you are addicted to something much worse than >>>both
- lies, defamation and deceit. You really hate New Zealanders don't you? >>Well good for you - I have not drunk alcohol for quite a few years,

and have never smoked. Why are you trying to defend the government >>condemning more young people to horrible deaths through smoking, which
has nothing to commend it?

I am defending nothiing, I am pointing out your repetitive lies and inability >to ever follow logic unless it is political in nature. You are a repeat liar >and a fraud, you don;t give a cuss about New Zealand or its people, only about >your political crap.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it >>>>is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ >>>>First clearly do not care at all.

Clear only to your befuddled mind.

Abuse gone

Of course it has not - perhaps you have been told you have a befuddled
mind and knew it was an insult but was not sure what it meant. Your
comment did indicate that you were unable to respond to valid argument
with other than unjustified insults.

Getting rid of vapes should have been done earlier, but the CoC wanted
to give one manufacturer the chance to sell off excess stocks, and
they also need to revenue from the sales . . .

Another lie.

Do you not follow the news, Tony? - or do you just lie to yourself
when you see the Government getting things wrong, for the wrong
reasons? https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/513021/government-delayed-vape-rules-to-suit-retailers-campaigners-say

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 20:28:03 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 05:47:08 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to >>>>>enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking

Unproven lie.

was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>>>rate.

Unproven lie.

Not a lie, but it was needed for either the tax cuts or to pay for the >>>handout to landlords - given the timing the landlord priority may have >>>triggered the stupid tobacco decision.

Of course it is a lie. As is the addition nonsense you have written.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would >>>>>cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available >>>>>as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>>>people dependent on opiods.

And you are an expert of course (yes right!) - do you ever have a drink >>>>that
contains alcohol?
I don't, nor do I smoke but you are addicted to something much worse than >>>>both
- lies, defamation and deceit. You really hate New Zealanders don't you? >>>Well good for you - I have not drunk alcohol for quite a few years,

and have never smoked. Why are you trying to defend the government >>>condemning more young people to horrible deaths through smoking, which >>>has nothing to commend it?

I am defending nothiing, I am pointing out your repetitive lies and inability >>to ever follow logic unless it is political in nature. You are a repeat liar >>and a fraud, you don;t give a cuss about New Zealand or its people, only >>about
your political crap.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it >>>>>is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ >>>>>First clearly do not care at all.

Clear only to your befuddled mind.

Abuse gone

Getting rid of vapes should have been done earlier, but the CoC wanted
to give one manufacturer the chance to sell off excess stocks, and
they also need to revenue from the sales . . .

Another lie.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those
sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax
rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for
people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect
one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your
government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe
alternative to smoking..

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those
sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax
rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect
one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your
government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe
alternative to smoking..

His memory is good, his integrity is missing.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:30:48 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those
sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax
rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect
one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your
government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe
alternative to smoking..

That was the general opinion at the time, but since then we have
discovered that it is harmful sufficiently harmful in itself that use
should be restricted. The last government brought in some restrictions
but not enough. Sadly the current government have effectively enabled
sales to continue for a while, and I doubt they will go as far as they
should when they do get around to doing something . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:30:48 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your >>government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe
alternative to smoking..

That was the general opinion at the time, but since then we have
discovered that it is harmful sufficiently harmful in itself that use
should be restricted. The last government brought in some restrictions
but not enough. Sadly the current government have effectively enabled
sales to continue for a while, and I doubt they will go as far as they
should when they do get around to doing something . . .

First 100 days - they did more than the last 6 years.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:30:48 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to
enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake -
and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it
is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ
First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your >>government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe
alternative to smoking..

That was the general opinion at the time, but since then we have
discovered that it is harmful sufficiently harmful in itself that use
should be restricted. The last government brought in some restrictions
but not enough. Sadly the current government have effectively enabled
sales to continue for a while, and I doubt they will go as far as they
should when they do get around to doing something . . .

People were saying at the time that vaping was bad based on overseas experience but as usual you ignored their advice,

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:39:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:30:48 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to >>>>enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake - >>>>and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>>rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would >>>>cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available >>>>as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it >>>>is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ >>>>First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your >>>government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe >>>alternative to smoking..

That was the general opinion at the time, but since then we have
discovered that it is harmful sufficiently harmful in itself that use >>should be restricted. The last government brought in some restrictions
but not enough. Sadly the current government have effectively enabled
sales to continue for a while, and I doubt they will go as far as they >>should when they do get around to doing something . . .

First 100 days - they did more than the last 6 years.

It was also exactly what they said they would do and drawn from the
policy commitments of all 3 parties.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 08:53:44 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:30:48 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to >>>>enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake - >>>>and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>>rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would >>>>cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available >>>>as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it >>>>is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ >>>>First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your >>>government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe >>>alternative to smoking..

That was the general opinion at the time, but since then we have
discovered that it is harmful sufficiently harmful in itself that use >>should be restricted. The last government brought in some restrictions
but not enough. Sadly the current government have effectively enabled
sales to continue for a while, and I doubt they will go as far as they >>should when they do get around to doing something . . .

People were saying at the time that vaping was bad based on overseas >experience but as usual you ignored their advice,

I have never vaped, and have no influence on policymakers. Vapes were
an accepted method of assisting people stop smoking tobacco products,
but they were marketed to a much wider group as the companies turned
from tobacco products to alternatives. Flavours and packaging
developed to be attractive to young people. Yes the previous
government did not take enough action to stop that - you will remember
that this was happening at the same time as the Opposition and their
financial backers were enthusiastically attacking Labour on anything
they could think of; it was the height of the Freedumb protests that
advocated against restrictions regardless of their justification.

The current government has not shown much appetite to fix these
problems relating to tobacco smoking or vaping - it is clear that they
will do as little as they can get away with and delay changes as long
as they can. We will never know what political donations were made
through the NZ Taxpayer Union by the tobacco industry . . .

Vaping does have a place as one of a suite of actions that can be
taken to assist New Zealanders stop tobacco smoking, but it should
have no other role - and certainly not in encouraging school children
to start taking harmful substances - as I said above (and no-one has
argued against it):

"If they really cared about the health of our young people they would
cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available
as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for
people dependent on opiods."

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 09:46:00 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:39:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:30:48 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to >>>>>>enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake - >>>>>>and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>>>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>>>>rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would >>>>>>cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available >>>>>>as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>>>>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>>>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it >>>>>>is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ >>>>>>First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your >>>>>government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe >>>>>alternative to smoking..

That was the general opinion at the time, but since then we have >>>>discovered that it is harmful sufficiently harmful in itself that use >>>>should be restricted. The last government brought in some restrictions >>>>but not enough. Sadly the current government have effectively enabled >>>>sales to continue for a while, and I doubt they will go as far as they >>>>should when they do get around to doing something . . .

First 100 days - they did more than the last 6 years.

It was also exactly what they said they would do and drawn from the
policy commitments of all 3 parties.

Saving lives and the health of young people is not it appears a
priority for this government. They extended the sale of tobacco and
vaping products - not desirable actions. I know one National
supporter who is angry that Luxon agreed to some policies that members
of the National party are upset about, and which would probably not be
agreed by a majority of National MPs. It is a high price for power,
but also a high price for the country.

Stop lying you pathetic hater of this country and its fine people.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 11:21:01 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 09:46:00 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:39:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:30:48 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to >>>>>>enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake - >>>>>>and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>>>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>>>>rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would >>>>>>cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available >>>>>>as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>>>>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>>>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it >>>>>>is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ >>>>>>First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your >>>>>government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe >>>>>alternative to smoking..

That was the general opinion at the time, but since then we have >>>>discovered that it is harmful sufficiently harmful in itself that use >>>>should be restricted. The last government brought in some restrictions >>>>but not enough. Sadly the current government have effectively enabled >>>>sales to continue for a while, and I doubt they will go as far as they >>>>should when they do get around to doing something . . .

First 100 days - they did more than the last 6 years.

It was also exactly what they said they would do and drawn from the
policy commitments of all 3 parties.

Saving lives and the health of young people is not it appears a
priority for this government.

This is clearly not true and an example of your relentless political
rhetoric. The Government have not done anything in respect to smoking cessation.

They extended the sale of tobacco and
vaping products - not desirable actions.

Incorrect. They repealed an Act that would have resulted in further restrictions on the sale of tobacco and related products that had not
yet come into effect.

I know one National
supporter who is angry that Luxon agreed to some policies that members
of the National party are upset about, and which would probably not be
agreed by a majority of National MPs. It is a high price for power,
but also a high price for the country.

Such is the nature of the dominant party in a coalition. How about
the Labour Caucus elected in 2017? Perhaps the same applied? This
speculation is as credible as yours.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 09:46:00 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:39:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:30:48 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to >>>>>enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake - >>>>>and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>>>rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would >>>>>cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available >>>>>as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>>>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it >>>>>is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ >>>>>First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your >>>>government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe >>>>alternative to smoking..

That was the general opinion at the time, but since then we have >>>discovered that it is harmful sufficiently harmful in itself that use >>>should be restricted. The last government brought in some restrictions >>>but not enough. Sadly the current government have effectively enabled >>>sales to continue for a while, and I doubt they will go as far as they >>>should when they do get around to doing something . . .

First 100 days - they did more than the last 6 years.

It was also exactly what they said they would do and drawn from the
policy commitments of all 3 parties.

Saving lives and the health of young people is not it appears a
priority for this government. They extended the sale of tobacco and
vaping products - not desirable actions. I know one National
supporter who is angry that Luxon agreed to some policies that members
of the National party are upset about, and which would probably not be
agreed by a majority of National MPs. It is a high price for power,
but also a high price for the country.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 12:01:46 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 11:21:01 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 09:46:00 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:39:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:30:48 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to >>>>>>>enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake - >>>>>>>and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>>>>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>>>>>rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would >>>>>>>cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available >>>>>>>as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>>>>>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>>>>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it >>>>>>>is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ >>>>>>>First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your >>>>>>government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe >>>>>>alternative to smoking..

That was the general opinion at the time, but since then we have >>>>>discovered that it is harmful sufficiently harmful in itself that use >>>>>should be restricted. The last government brought in some restrictions >>>>>but not enough. Sadly the current government have effectively enabled >>>>>sales to continue for a while, and I doubt they will go as far as they >>>>>should when they do get around to doing something . . .

First 100 days - they did more than the last 6 years.

It was also exactly what they said they would do and drawn from the >>>policy commitments of all 3 parties.

Saving lives and the health of young people is not it appears a
priority for this government.

This is clearly not true and an example of your relentless political >rhetoric. The Government have not done anything in respect to smoking >cessation.

They extended the sale of tobacco and
vaping products - not desirable actions.

Incorrect. They repealed an Act that would have resulted in further >restrictions on the sale of tobacco and related products that had not
yet come into effect.

The Government repealed legislation and introduced some new rules,
which is doing something - and thereby extended the sale of tobacco
and vaping products.

I know one National
supporter who is angry that Luxon agreed to some policies that members
of the National party are upset about, and which would probably not be >>agreed by a majority of National MPs. It is a high price for power,
but also a high price for the country.

Such is the nature of the dominant party in a coalition. How about
the Labour Caucus elected in 2017? Perhaps the same applied? This >speculation is as credible as yours.

I am sure you are right, Crash - when Labour was the dominant party
some Green MPs would have been disappointed by some decisions; now
that ACT/NZ1st are dominant, some National Party MPs are disappointed
with some decisions.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 12:01:46 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 11:21:01 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

On Tue, 09 Apr 2024 09:46:00 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 19:39:38 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Apr 2024 15:30:48 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/04-04-2024/how-vape-brands-are-outrunning-regulation

National have realised that their reversal of Labour regulation to >>>>>>>>enable more New Zealanders to be killed from smoking was a mistake - >>>>>>>>and they will not admit that they were desperate for money from those >>>>>>>>sales to try and cover the financial hole in plans to cut the top tax >>>>>>>>rate.

If they really cared about the health of our young people they would >>>>>>>>cut vapes out entirely from retail sale, and make them only available >>>>>>>>as a smoking treatment, in much the same way as methadone is used for >>>>>>>>people dependent on opiods.

Labour should have realised this at least 2 years ago; it is I suspect >>>>>>>>one reason why some did not support them at the last election. But it >>>>>>>>is not clear that National is any better on this issue; ACT and NZ >>>>>>>>First clearly do not care at all.

Geez Rich you have a short memory when back in 2017 and 18 your >>>>>>>government was promoting on radio and TV of vaping as the safe >>>>>>>alternative to smoking..

That was the general opinion at the time, but since then we have >>>>>>discovered that it is harmful sufficiently harmful in itself that use >>>>>>should be restricted. The last government brought in some restrictions >>>>>>but not enough. Sadly the current government have effectively enabled >>>>>>sales to continue for a while, and I doubt they will go as far as they >>>>>>should when they do get around to doing something . . .

First 100 days - they did more than the last 6 years.

It was also exactly what they said they would do and drawn from the >>>>policy commitments of all 3 parties.

Saving lives and the health of young people is not it appears a
priority for this government.

This is clearly not true and an example of your relentless political >>rhetoric. The Government have not done anything in respect to smoking >>cessation.

They extended the sale of tobacco and
vaping products - not desirable actions.

Incorrect. They repealed an Act that would have resulted in further >>restrictions on the sale of tobacco and related products that had not
yet come into effect.

The Government repealed legislation and introduced some new rules,
which is doing something - and thereby extended the sale of tobacco
and vaping products.

Illogical but only to be expected. You cannot use logic until you have integrity, no hope there.

I know one National
supporter who is angry that Luxon agreed to some policies that members
of the National party are upset about, and which would probably not be >>>agreed by a majority of National MPs. It is a high price for power,
but also a high price for the country.

Such is the nature of the dominant party in a coalition. How about
the Labour Caucus elected in 2017? Perhaps the same applied? This >>speculation is as credible as yours.

I am sure you are right, Crash - when Labour was the dominant party
some Green MPs would have been disappointed by some decisions; now
that ACT/NZ1st are dominant, some National Party MPs are disappointed
with some decisions.

What silliness - you really are ill.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)