Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me cold.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
On 8 May 2024 05:05:38 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >https://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply. >No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
It's 1/2 of 1% of total capacity. A footnote.
On Wed, 8 May 2024, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Yes, I am undone. However as a footnote - no EV's here, and unlikely to ever be any.
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Ah, using clean and ecological electric heaters, are you, Tony? And
plugging in your EV?!? Bad Tony, you shall be persecuted!
I, on the other hand, use a wood burner. Yes, I am toasty and warm
tonight, and my electricity provider smiles beatifically upon me. I
am exalted. I am knighted tonight.
You however, Tony, get nighted tonight, you electricity overconsumer,
you.
On 8 May 2024 05:05:38 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>https://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply. >>No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
It's 1/2 of 1% of total capacity. A footnote.
https://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
With solar panels becoming very much cheaper as China ups its
production (and has installed vast arrays for domestic electricity >generation), having an excuse to increase prices must be a factor in
the decision not to proceed.
"In March 2023 Genesis applied to extend the resource consent for the
wind farm and vary its conditions.[7] Its proposal involves reducing
the size of the windfarm to 300MW.[8] Consent was granted in October
2023, and now expires in 2031.[9]"
On Thu, 09 May 2024, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
With solar panels becoming very much cheaper as China ups its
production (and has installed vast arrays for domestic electricity >generation), having an excuse to increase prices must be a factor in
the decision not to proceed.
Your morons are already planning to geo-engineer reflectors into the stratosphere to block out sunlight. Solar energy users will love
that, as will farmers, and all who freeze to death including entire
species.
"In March 2023 Genesis applied to extend the resource consent for the
wind farm and vary its conditions.[7] Its proposal involves reducing
the size of the windfarm to 300MW.[8] Consent was granted in October
2023, and now expires in 2031.[9]"
Genesis has since ruled it out due to skyrocketing expenses of
building wind turbines.
Only brainless lefties think "green" energy
is cheaper than fossil fuels.
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >https://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me cold.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nzI am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near misses.
says...
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply. >> >
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And >> the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
says...
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply. >> >
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And >> the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
In article <663bf359.1804955734@news.mixmin.net>, wn@nosuch.com says...
Your morons are already planning to geo-engineer reflectors into the
stratosphere to block out sunlight. Solar energy users will love
that, as will farmers, and all who freeze to death including entire
species.
Got a citation there? I've not seen or heard of any serious plans to do
this.
Genesis has since ruled it out due to skyrocketing expenses of
building wind turbines.
Has Genesis said this was the reason?
Only brainless lefties think "green" energy
is cheaper than fossil fuels.
Got any evidence to prove coal and gas are cheaper than wind, solar, >geothermal and hydro?
On Thu, 09 May 2024, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I haven't heard about your morons, Willy Nilly - do you have a
With solar panels becoming very much cheaper as China ups its
production (and has installed vast arrays for domestic electricity >>generation), having an excuse to increase prices must be a factor in
the decision not to proceed.
Your morons are already planning to geo-engineer reflectors into the >stratosphere to block out sunlight. Solar energy users will love
that, as will farmers, and all who freeze to death including entire
species.
Resource consents are not trivial - why would they have put together a"In March 2023 Genesis applied to extend the resource consent for the
wind farm and vary its conditions.[7] Its proposal involves reducing
the size of the windfarm to 300MW.[8] Consent was granted in October
2023, and now expires in 2031.[9]"
Genesis has since ruled it out due to skyrocketing expenses of
building wind turbines. Only brainless lefties think "green" energy
is cheaper than fossil fuels.
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply. >>> >
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
On Thu, 9 May 2024, David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <663bf359.1804955734@news.mixmin.net>, wn@nosuch.com says...
Your morons are already planning to geo-engineer reflectors into the
stratosphere to block out sunlight. Solar energy users will love
that, as will farmers, and all who freeze to death including entire
species.
Got a citation there? I've not seen or heard of any serious plans to do >this.
The stratolution will not be televised.
Genesis has since ruled it out due to skyrocketing expenses of
building wind turbines.
Has Genesis said this was the reason?
Yes.
Only brainless lefties think "green" energy
is cheaper than fossil fuels.
Got any evidence to prove coal and gas are cheaper than wind, solar, >geothermal and hydro?
I love hydro, it is wind power that I'm talking about, with a shake of
solar added. JoNova has many good articles on the absurd costliness
of these, here's a couple: https://joannenova.com.au/2024/04/the-most-expensive-electricity-on-earth-is-in-countries-with-cheapest-sources-of-electricity/
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/04/people-dont-believe-renewables-are-cheap-any-more-so-activists-pretend-they-never-said-it-was/
Hey, if all our new wind turbines are so great, why the warning of
blackouts & brownouts tomorrow? https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/516392/transpower-warns-of-possible-power-shortages-on-friday
Every new wind turbine increases our electricity cost, and increases
the chances of power grid collapse. All the money spent on wind
turbines should be being spent on more hydro and more gas, and, as
Genesis has now found, even more coal. Nothing like a 3-week blackout
to make all the greenies cry "Uncle"!
In article <663c3b06.1823305578@news.mixmin.net>, wn@nosuch.com says...
The stratolution will not be televised.
Right, so this is new conspiracy theory I've not encountered yet?
Genesis has since ruled it out due to skyrocketing expenses of
building wind turbines.
Source?
of these, here's a couple:
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/04/the-most-expensive-electricity-on-earth-is-in-countries-with-cheapest-sources-of-electricity/
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/04/people-dont-believe-renewables-are-cheap-any-more-so-activists-pretend-they-never-said-it-was/
I tried to read those, I really did. Perhaps I need more coffee, but it
just seems like a bunch of rambling with no real facts or evidence.
If the concern is that wind and solar are intermittent, then batteries
are a reasonable solution.
Because power companies have failed to either build sufficient storage,
or enough other kinds of generation. This is not a new problem.
*No one* is suggesting we only run the power grid off of wind energy.
Wind and solar are mostly useful for taking the pressure off of hydro,
gas and coal. Hydro and most gas generators can respond quite quickly
when needed so it makes sense to save them for when the sun isn't
shining or the wind isn't blowing. The less frequently we have to rely
on gas and coal, the lower our power bills will be.
Nothing like a 3-week blackout to make all the greenies cry "Uncle"!
On 2024-05-09, David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:Transpower are the ones driving this.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz
says...
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply. >>> >
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. >>>And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower-
says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
Reading that link just has me sure that Electric Kiwi is losing the plot.
Doing a test without telling everyone is nothing but bad adverstising. Why >should the use care that the whole sale of the power price is sky high. This >happens and the generators are tempted to offer more supply which lowers
the price.
The power companies are in the business of gamling, that the prower price >will not stay high enough to affect their bottom line.
The fact that Electric Kiwi has, and others are thinking of doing the same, >is proof enough that the lights are close to going out sometime this winter >in some place.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nzHowever tomorrow morning we are wraned there will be.
says...
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply. >> >
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And >> the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), TonySarcasm removed.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many >>near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. >>>>Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
On Wed, 08 May 2024 21:56:32 GMT, wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:
On Thu, 09 May 2024, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I haven't heard about your morons, Willy Nilly - do you have a
With solar panels becoming very much cheaper as China ups its
production (and has installed vast arrays for domestic electricity >>>generation), having an excuse to increase prices must be a factor in
the decision not to proceed.
Your morons are already planning to geo-engineer reflectors into the >>stratosphere to block out sunlight. Solar energy users will love
that, as will farmers, and all who freeze to death including entire >>species.
reference to them and the results of such reflectors (assuming they do
not just fall back to earth fairly quickly)?
Resource consents are not trivial - why would they have put together a proposal that did not make economic sense and then get approval for"In March 2023 Genesis applied to extend the resource consent for the >>>wind farm and vary its conditions.[7] Its proposal involves reducing
the size of the windfarm to 300MW.[8] Consent was granted in October >>>2023, and now expires in 2031.[9]"
Genesis has since ruled it out due to skyrocketing expenses of
building wind turbines. Only brainless lefties think "green" energy
is cheaper than fossil fuels.
it?
On Thu, 09 May 2024, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
With solar panels becoming very much cheaper as China ups its
production (and has installed vast arrays for domestic electricity >>generation), having an excuse to increase prices must be a factor in
the decision not to proceed.
Your morons are already planning to geo-engineer reflectors into the stratosphere to block out sunlight. Solar energy users will love
that, as will farmers, and all who freeze to death including entire
species.
"In March 2023 Genesis applied to extend the resource consent for the
wind farm and vary its conditions.[7] Its proposal involves reducing
the size of the windfarm to 300MW.[8] Consent was granted in October
2023, and now expires in 2031.[9]"
Genesis has since ruled it out due to skyrocketing expenses of
building wind turbines. Only brainless lefties think "green" energy
is cheaper than fossil fuels.
In article <663c3b06.1823305578@news.mixmin.net>, wn@nosuch.com says...
On Thu, 9 May 2024, David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <663bf359.1804955734@news.mixmin.net>, wn@nosuch.com says...
Your morons are already planning to geo-engineer reflectors into the
stratosphere to block out sunlight. Solar energy users will love
that, as will farmers, and all who freeze to death including entire
species.
Got a citation there? I've not seen or heard of any serious plans to do
this.
The stratolution will not be televised.
Right, so this is new conspiracy theory I've not encountered yet?
Genesis has since ruled it out due to skyrocketing expenses of
building wind turbines.
Has Genesis said this was the reason?
Yes.
Source?
Only brainless lefties think "green" energy
is cheaper than fossil fuels.
Got any evidence to prove coal and gas are cheaper than wind, solar,
geothermal and hydro?
I love hydro, it is wind power that I'm talking about, with a shake of
solar added. JoNova has many good articles on the absurd costliness
of these, here's a couple:
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/04/the-most-expensive-electricity-on-earth-is-in-countries-with-cheapest-sources-of-electricity/
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/04/people-dont-believe-renewables-are-cheap-any-more-so-activists-pretend-they-never-said-it-was/
I tried to read those, I really did. Perhaps I need more coffee, but it
just seems like a bunch of rambling with no real facts or evidence.
If the concern is that wind and solar are intermittent, then batteries
are a reasonable solution. We don't have a lot of batteries right now
but thats a solvable problem.
Hey, if all our new wind turbines are so great, why the warning of
blackouts & brownouts tomorrow?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/516392/transpower-warns-of-possible-power-shortages-on-friday
Because power companies have failed to either build sufficient storage,
or enough other kinds of generation. This is not a new problem.
*No one* is suggesting we only run the power grid off of wind energy.
Wind and solar are mostly useful for taking the pressure off of hydro,
gas and coal. Hydro and most gas generators can respond quite quickly
when needed so it makes sense to save them for when the sun isn't
shining or the wind isn't blowing. The less frequently we have to rely
on gas and coal, the lower our power bills will be.
Every new wind turbine increases our electricity cost, and increases
the chances of power grid collapse. All the money spent on wind
turbines should be being spent on more hydro and more gas, and, as
Genesis has now found, even more coal. Nothing like a 3-week blackout
to make all the greenies cry "Uncle"!
I think we've mostly already built hydro everywhere we can, and gas is comparatively expensive. Batteries are a more profitable solution -
charge them up off-peak when power is cheap, sell the power back when
power is expensive.
The USA does a fair bit of this: https://archive.ph/BkTrD
On Thu, 9 May 2024, David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <663c3b06.1823305578@news.mixmin.net>, wn@nosuch.com says...
The stratolution will not be televised.
Right, so this is new conspiracy theory I've not encountered yet?
Now you have.
Genesis has since ruled it out due to skyrocketing expenses of
building wind turbines.
Source?
It was in the news some months ago, possibly in a stockholder's
report. Can't be bothered to dig it up. Another of your "first
encounters", evidently. Maybe you should get out more.
of these, here's a couple:
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/04/the-most-expensive-electricity-on-earth-is-in-countries-with-cheapest-sources-of-electricity/
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/04/people-dont-believe-renewables-are-cheap-any-more-so-activists-pretend-they-never-said-it-was/
I tried to read those, I really did. Perhaps I need more coffee, but it >>just seems like a bunch of rambling with no real facts or evidence.
More coffee, then.
If the concern is that wind and solar are intermittent, then batteries
are a reasonable solution.
No they aren't, far too dear, and wait for the first time they catch
fire, it will be spectacular.
Because power companies have failed to either build sufficient storage,
or enough other kinds of generation. This is not a new problem.
Generation would have been built but for over-regulation.
*No one* is suggesting we only run the power grid off of wind energy.
Wind and solar are mostly useful for taking the pressure off of hydro,
gas and coal. Hydro and most gas generators can respond quite quickly
when needed so it makes sense to save them for when the sun isn't
shining or the wind isn't blowing. The less frequently we have to rely
on gas and coal, the lower our power bills will be.
Nope, that's empty sloganeering. Why are China and India building
coal generating plants so furiously? Because they are the cheapest.
Nothing like a 3-week blackout to make all the greenies cry "Uncle"!
Even better, after a month-long blackout they'll cry "Uncle Winston"!
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:No sarcasm:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), TonySarcasm removed.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many >>>near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. >>>>>Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
On Thu, 9 May 2024, David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <663c3b06.1823305578@news.mixmin.net>, wn@nosuch.com says...
The stratolution will not be televised.
Right, so this is new conspiracy theory I've not encountered yet?
Now you have.
Genesis has since ruled it out due to skyrocketing expenses of
building wind turbines.
Source?
It was in the news some months ago, possibly in a stockholder's
report. Can't be bothered to dig it up. Another of your "first
encounters", evidently. Maybe you should get out more.
of these, here's a couple:
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/04/the-most-expensive-electricity-on-earth-is-in-countries-with-cheapest-sources-of-electricity/
https://joannenova.com.au/2024/04/people-dont-believe-renewables-are-cheap-any-more-so-activists-pretend-they-never-said-it-was/
I tried to read those, I really did. Perhaps I need more coffee, but it >just seems like a bunch of rambling with no real facts or evidence.
More coffee, then.
If the concern is that wind and solar are intermittent, then batteries
are a reasonable solution.
No they aren't, far too dear, and wait for the first time they catch
fire, it will be spectacular.
Because power companies have failed to either build sufficient storage,
or enough other kinds of generation. This is not a new problem.
Generation would have been built but for over-regulation.
*No one* is suggesting we only run the power grid off of wind energy.
Wind and solar are mostly useful for taking the pressure off of hydro,
gas and coal. Hydro and most gas generators can respond quite quickly
when needed so it makes sense to save them for when the sun isn't
shining or the wind isn't blowing. The less frequently we have to rely
on gas and coal, the lower our power bills will be.
Nope, that's empty sloganeering. Why are China and India building
coal generating plants so furiously? Because they are the cheapest.
"Uncle"!Nothing like a 3-week blackout to make all the greenies cry
Even better, after a month-long blackout they'll cry "Uncle Winston"!
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >says...
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.However tomorrow morning we are wraned there will be.
My previous comments now re-inforced.
Can you actually provide a link to a study confirming that coal is
cheaper than renewables? Because I couldn't find one. I can find plenty
of stuff saying that building new wind or solar is cheaper than running >existing coal power plants though.
China is an interesting case because they're also furiously building
wind and solar. They aren't building Coal because its cheaper (it
isn't), they're building it for other reasons.
Actual utilisation of
Coal power plants has been dropping for over a decade now
So in a way China proves the point - their rapid building of wind and
solar on a massive scale is pushing more expensive coal out of the grid.
The only thing likely to produce an outage of that magnitude is
something like a geomagnetic storm damaging a bunch of big transformers
at powerplants that we can't just order replacements for at short
notice.
On Fri, 10 May 2024, David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:transition.php
Can you actually provide a link to a study confirming that coal is
cheaper than renewables? Because I couldn't find one. I can find plenty
of stuff saying that building new wind or solar is cheaper than running >existing coal power plants though.
Sigh, I gave you a couple links yesterday which showed exactly that,
but you said you needed more coffee to read them. You find "plenty of
stuff" which confirms your worldview because your lefty brain only
processes the apposite whilst blocking the opposing -- also because
lefty windbags dominate those places you read. You're in an echo
chamber, David, c'mon, snap out of it! But because I've had my
coffee, here's another link, complete with a measure of nonsensical
media propagandising at the end -- your turn to have that coffee:
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2024/05/what-energy-
Lets try a different approach. Can you explain how you think solar power
Do you think there are more people involved in running a solar power
Do you think solar power plants need to buy and consume some sort of
Or do you think solar power plants are more expensive to setup than the
On Fri, 10 May 2024, David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
Lets try a different approach. Can you explain how you think solar power
Do you think there are more people involved in running a solar power
Do you think solar power plants need to buy and consume some sort of
Or do you think solar power plants are more expensive to setup than the
I focus on wind turbine nonsense, and that fossil fuels are and will
continue to be the dominant source of energy in the world. You change
the subject and troll, much like Rich does. Not interested.
On Fri, 10 May 2024, David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
Actual utilisation of
Coal power plants has been dropping for over a decade now
ABSOLUTELY FALSE, more coal is being consumed world-wide than ever.
On Thu, 9 May 2024 06:04:35 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:No sarcasm:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), TonySarcasm removed.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many >>>>near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. >>>>>>Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>>>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a
cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it
stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high,
and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of
making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2024/05/the-wrong-direction.html
has a few ideas.
Another is that we use slash from the Gisborne floods, - cut it up >mechanically, then process that material to be suitable for use
instead of coal - I have heard that this could be done to produce
better energy output than coal from Indonesia at lower cost, and it
would assist in raising money for better rail and coastal shipping
resources.
On Thu, 09 May 2024 23:05:32 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 06:04:35 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:No sarcasm:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), TonySarcasm removed.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many >>>>>near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country.https://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>>>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>>>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it
stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high,
and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of
making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2024/05/the-wrong-direction.html
has a few ideas.
Another is that we use slash from the Gisborne floods, - cut it up >>mechanically, then process that material to be suitable for use
instead of coal - I have heard that this could be done to produce
better energy output than coal from Indonesia at lower cost, and it
would assist in raising money for better rail and coastal shipping >>resources.
It turns out though that the biggest hurdle stopping us from having
adequate power at a good price is indeed the Bradford "reforms" that
put private profit first before both our ability to supply enough
power or cheaper power:
"In November 2022, 350 Aotearoa, NZCTU and FIRST Union
released a report claiming that from 2014 to 2021, the four >generator-retailer “gentailers” – that dominate 87 percent of the
NZ electricity market – had collectively paid out $3.7 billion in
excess dividends to shareholders. An excess dividend is when the
amount distributed in dividends to shareholders is greater than
the after-tax profit generated by the company. Excess dividend
distribution surged in the wake of the Key Government’s partial
privatisation of Genesis, Meridian and Mercury, putting upward
pressure on electricity prices and slowing the energy transition
away from fossil fuels.
Since the report’s release, communities across the country have
faced the impacts of increasingly powerful extreme weather
events alongside a cost-of-living crisis. Cyclones and flooding
events have hammered areas like Taitokerau, Tamaki Makaurau
and Tairawhiti, destroying livelihoods and bringing into question
the long-term viability of entire industries like horticulture and
forestry in these areas. The need for a just transition is greater
than ever before.
This briefing updates that report with the latest data, insights
from engagement with policymakers, and new developments in
our campaign for an electricity system that works for people and
planet:
• In 2023 the gentailers distributed $1.1 billion in dividends to >shareholders from net profit after tax of only $521 million,
an excess dividend of $638 million (Meridian: $423 million,
Mercury: $194 million, and Contact: $116 million). This is the
third-highest excess dividend paid to shareholders since >partial-privatisation ($817 million in 2015 and $639 million in
2016).
• In the decade to 2023, dividends have totaled almost $10.8
billion (including excess dividends of $4.2 billion), while
investment on plant, property, and equipment over the
decade came to only $4.5 billion. For every dollar spent on plant,
property, and equipment, $2.41 has been spent
paying shareholder dividends.
• 2023 is the first year since 2013 that cumulative gentailer
investments in plant, property, and equipment were higher
than cumulative gentailer dividends. However in the last
decade, total generating capacity has increased by only
one percent.
With a new Government formed, discussions about the role of the
private sector in the transition to a low-emissions energy future are >crucial. National Governments privatised Contact in 1996, split the >Electricity Corporation into competing state-owned enterprises
in 1998, and partially-privatised Genesis, Mercury and Meridian in
2013. Coalition agreements and other proclamations commit to
doubling renewable electricity by 2050, but also scrap the 100%
renewable energy target and the Onslow pumped hydro scheme.
A decade of data shows next to no growth in national generating
capacity against $11 billion in dividends for shareholders, 142
percent of net profit after tax. These costs slow the expansion
of generating capacity and the decarbonisation of industrial and
transport emissions, as well as impact the competitiveness of
domestic manufacturing and job creation. This data shows that
privatisation has failed to deliver for people and planet.plant,
property, and equipment, $2.41 has been spent
paying shareholder dividends.
• 2023 is the first year since 2013 that cumulative gentailer
investments in plant, property, and equipment were higher
than cumulative gentailer dividends. However in the last
decade, total generating capacity has increased by only
one percent.
With a new Government formed, discussions about the role of the
private sector in the transition to a low-emissions energy future are >crucial. National Governments privatised Contact in 1996, split the >Electricity Corporation into competing state-owned enterprises
in 1998, and partially-privatised Genesis, Mercury and Meridian in
2013. Coalition agreements and other proclamations commit to
doubling renewable electricity by 2050, but also scrap the 100%
renewable energy target and the Onslow pumped hydro scheme.
A decade of data shows next to no growth in national generating
capacity against $11 billion in dividends for shareholders, 142
percent of net profit after tax. These costs slow the expansion
of generating capacity and the decarbonisation of industrial and
transport emissions, as well as impact the competitiveness of
domestic manufacturing and job creation. This data shows that
privatisation has failed to deliver for people and planet.
https://union.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Generating-Scarcity-2023-update.pdf
From the Conclusion of the report:
"A decade of data shows the ongoing costs of partial-privatisation
in the electricity sector. For every dollar of investment over that
decade, gentailers have paid out $2.41 in shareholder dividends.
Since 2014, the gentailers have distributed $4.2 billion in excess
dividends, putting shareholders ahead of households, communities
and the environment. While investment in 2023 has topped
shareholder dividends for the first time in more than a decade, high
interest rates and an uncertain regulatory environment threaten
that progress."
and
"The electricity industry should serve as a warning for other areas
of the economy in which privatisation is being promoted as an
option. The global surge in interest rates has served to increase
the global wealth divide, and vast swathes of capital are looking
for new profitable investment opportunities. Historically public
sector spheres of activity like electricity and health are ranking at
the top of these lists. Private sector innovations can help improve
the cost and efficiency of delivering of public services, but it is
crucial that those control of those services remain in public hands.
This will ensure the benefits of greater efficiency help us in the
process of achieving a just transition that supports the interests of
people and planet."
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it
stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high,
and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of
making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high,
and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of
making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current
power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed
these as she became the government the next election but did nothing
just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say
national is.
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>So you explain how it should be done without having to bring forward
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>>>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of
making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current
power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing
just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say
national is.
Mutley this has been pointed out to Rich in one way or another many
times over the years. Rich simply ignores the facts and repeats his >discredited assertions over time - hence it becomes 'rhetoric'.
The Bradford reforms produced choice where no choice existed.
Electricity, like telecommunications, came solely from a Government
entity and you took what was on offer or did without. Bradford was a >National MP so Rich disapproves, telecommunications was privatised
(through the SOE structure) by a prior Labour government that Rich has >disowned.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high,
and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of
making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current
power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed
these as she became the government the next election but did nothing
just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say
national is.
On Sun, 12 May 2024 15:46:20 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>So you explain how it should be done without having to bring forward
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>>>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>>>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current
power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing
just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say
national is.
Mutley this has been pointed out to Rich in one way or another many
times over the years. Rich simply ignores the facts and repeats his >>discredited assertions over time - hence it becomes 'rhetoric'.
The Bradford reforms produced choice where no choice existed.
Electricity, like telecommunications, came solely from a Government
entity and you took what was on offer or did without. Bradford was a >>National MP so Rich disapproves, telecommunications was privatised
(through the SOE structure) by a prior Labour government that Rich has >>disowned.
future excess profits that are reflected in the current share price,
Crash . . .
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>>>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of
making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current
power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing
just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say
national is.
It is now very difficult to unwind - would you really want your tax
dollars to be spent buying the owners of the gentailers out? The only
way I see is a compulsory change to the market similar to the Telecom >Restructure - there may be court cases for compensation however - so
you tell us how to reverse the Bradford changes, Mutley . . .
On Sun, 12 May 2024 23:02:46 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>So you cannot see any easy way out of the problem either . . .
wrote:
On Sun, 12 May 2024 15:46:20 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:So you explain how it should be done without having to bring forward
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We >>>>>could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions >>>>>could do it.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current >>>>power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>>>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing >>>>just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say >>>>national is.
Mutley this has been pointed out to Rich in one way or another many
times over the years. Rich simply ignores the facts and repeats his >>>discredited assertions over time - hence it becomes 'rhetoric'.
The Bradford reforms produced choice where no choice existed. >>>Electricity, like telecommunications, came solely from a Government >>>entity and you took what was on offer or did without. Bradford was a >>>National MP so Rich disapproves, telecommunications was privatised >>>(through the SOE structure) by a prior Labour government that Rich has >>>disowned.
future excess profits that are reflected in the current share price,
Crash . . .
I am not going to be bothered to post again what I have posted in the
past. That is fodder to the relentless rhetoric you will then respond
with. The fact is that neither Labour nor National see any need to re >litigate electricity supply industry structure.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:What wasn't when Clark's government came to power, Mutley?
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>>>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>>>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current
power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing
just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say
national is.
It is now very difficult to unwind - would you really want your tax
dollars to be spent buying the owners of the gentailers out? The only
way I see is a compulsory change to the market similar to the Telecom >>Restructure - there may be court cases for compensation however - so
you tell us how to reverse the Bradford changes, Mutley . . .
But it wasn't when Clark's government came to power.
On Mon, 13 May 2024 08:19:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 12 May 2024 23:02:46 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:So you cannot see any easy way out of the problem either . . .
On Sun, 12 May 2024 15:46:20 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:So you explain how it should be done without having to bring forward >>>future excess profits that are reflected in the current share price, >>>Crash . . .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We >>>>>>could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions >>>>>>could do it.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current >>>>>power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>>>>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing >>>>>just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say >>>>>national is.
Mutley this has been pointed out to Rich in one way or another many >>>>times over the years. Rich simply ignores the facts and repeats his >>>>discredited assertions over time - hence it becomes 'rhetoric'.
The Bradford reforms produced choice where no choice existed. >>>>Electricity, like telecommunications, came solely from a Government >>>>entity and you took what was on offer or did without. Bradford was a >>>>National MP so Rich disapproves, telecommunications was privatised >>>>(through the SOE structure) by a prior Labour government that Rich has >>>>disowned.
I am not going to be bothered to post again what I have posted in the
past. That is fodder to the relentless rhetoric you will then respond >>with. The fact is that neither Labour nor National see any need to re >>litigate electricity supply industry structure.
On 2024-05-12, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2024 08:19:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 12 May 2024 23:02:46 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:So you cannot see any easy way out of the problem either . . .
On Sun, 12 May 2024 15:46:20 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:So you explain how it should be done without having to bring forward >>>>future excess profits that are reflected in the current share price, >>>>Crash . . .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We >>>>>>>could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions >>>>>>>could do it.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current >>>>>>power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>>>>>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing >>>>>>just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say >>>>>>national is.
Mutley this has been pointed out to Rich in one way or another many >>>>>times over the years. Rich simply ignores the facts and repeats his >>>>>discredited assertions over time - hence it becomes 'rhetoric'.
The Bradford reforms produced choice where no choice existed. >>>>>Electricity, like telecommunications, came solely from a Government >>>>>entity and you took what was on offer or did without. Bradford was a >>>>>National MP so Rich disapproves, telecommunications was privatised >>>>>(through the SOE structure) by a prior Labour government that Rich has >>>>>disowned.
I am not going to be bothered to post again what I have posted in the >>>past. That is fodder to the relentless rhetoric you will then respond >>>with. The fact is that neither Labour nor National see any need to re >>>litigate electricity supply industry structure.
So why keep banging on about it? Unless you have a solution, let us all move >on.
In article <part1of1.1.3rymZ#0wHpowpg@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nzResilience is therefore questionable.
says...
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nzHowever tomorrow morning we are wraned there will be.
says...
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. >> >>Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of
supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >> >> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >> >> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >> >>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower-
says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
My previous comments now re-inforced.
Apparently todays issue is caused by there being 700MW of generation
offline for maintenance. They wanted to carry out maintenance now to get
it done before the cold weather arrived, but the cold weather arrived
sooner than expected.
On Thu, 9 May 2024 06:04:35 -0000 (UTC), TonySatrcasm is all you have.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:No sarcasm:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), TonySarcasm removed.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many >>>>near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. >>>>>>Andhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of >>>>>> >supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >>>>>> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >>>>>> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me >>>>>>cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a
cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it
stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high,
and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of
making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2024/05/the-wrong-direction.html
has a few ideas.
Another is that we use slash from the Gisborne floods, - cut it up >mechanically, then process that material to be suitable for use
instead of coal - I have heard that this could be done to produce
better energy output than coal from Indonesia at lower cost, and it
would assist in raising money for better rail and coastal shipping
resources.
On Sat, 11 May 2024 17:04:00 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>You are still way off beam, Just your usual polical childishness.
wrote:
On Thu, 09 May 2024 23:05:32 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 06:04:35 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:No sarcasm:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Sarcasm removed.
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too >>>>>>many
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can >>>>>>>>reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of >>>>>>>> >supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world >>>>>>>>country.
And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave >>>>>>>>me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
near
misses.
I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it
stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of
making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2024/05/the-wrong-direction.html
has a few ideas.
Another is that we use slash from the Gisborne floods, - cut it up >>>mechanically, then process that material to be suitable for use
instead of coal - I have heard that this could be done to produce
better energy output than coal from Indonesia at lower cost, and it
would assist in raising money for better rail and coastal shipping >>>resources.
It turns out though that the biggest hurdle stopping us from having >>adequate power at a good price is indeed the Bradford "reforms" that
put private profit first before both our ability to supply enough
power or cheaper power:
"In November 2022, 350 Aotearoa, NZCTU and FIRST Union
released a report claiming that from 2014 to 2021, the four >>generator-retailer “gentailers” – that dominate 87 percent of the
NZ electricity market – had collectively paid out $3.7 billion in
excess dividends to shareholders. An excess dividend is when the
amount distributed in dividends to shareholders is greater than
the after-tax profit generated by the company. Excess dividend
distribution surged in the wake of the Key Government’s partial >>privatisation of Genesis, Meridian and Mercury, putting upward
pressure on electricity prices and slowing the energy transition
away from fossil fuels.
Since the report’s release, communities across the country have
faced the impacts of increasingly powerful extreme weather
events alongside a cost-of-living crisis. Cyclones and flooding
events have hammered areas like Taitokerau, Tamaki Makaurau
and Tairawhiti, destroying livelihoods and bringing into question
the long-term viability of entire industries like horticulture and
forestry in these areas. The need for a just transition is greater
than ever before.
This briefing updates that report with the latest data, insights
from engagement with policymakers, and new developments in
our campaign for an electricity system that works for people and
planet:
• In 2023 the gentailers distributed $1.1 billion in dividends to >>shareholders from net profit after tax of only $521 million,
an excess dividend of $638 million (Meridian: $423 million,
Mercury: $194 million, and Contact: $116 million). This is the >>third-highest excess dividend paid to shareholders since >>partial-privatisation ($817 million in 2015 and $639 million in
2016).
• In the decade to 2023, dividends have totaled almost $10.8
billion (including excess dividends of $4.2 billion), while
investment on plant, property, and equipment over the
decade came to only $4.5 billion. For every dollar spent on plant, >>property, and equipment, $2.41 has been spent
paying shareholder dividends.
• 2023 is the first year since 2013 that cumulative gentailer
investments in plant, property, and equipment were higher
than cumulative gentailer dividends. However in the last
decade, total generating capacity has increased by only
one percent.
With a new Government formed, discussions about the role of the
private sector in the transition to a low-emissions energy future are >>crucial. National Governments privatised Contact in 1996, split the >>Electricity Corporation into competing state-owned enterprises
in 1998, and partially-privatised Genesis, Mercury and Meridian in
2013. Coalition agreements and other proclamations commit to
doubling renewable electricity by 2050, but also scrap the 100%
renewable energy target and the Onslow pumped hydro scheme.
A decade of data shows next to no growth in national generating
capacity against $11 billion in dividends for shareholders, 142
percent of net profit after tax. These costs slow the expansion
of generating capacity and the decarbonisation of industrial and
transport emissions, as well as impact the competitiveness of
domestic manufacturing and job creation. This data shows that
privatisation has failed to deliver for people and planet.plant,
property, and equipment, $2.41 has been spent
paying shareholder dividends.
• 2023 is the first year since 2013 that cumulative gentailer
investments in plant, property, and equipment were higher
than cumulative gentailer dividends. However in the last
decade, total generating capacity has increased by only
one percent.
With a new Government formed, discussions about the role of the
private sector in the transition to a low-emissions energy future are >>crucial. National Governments privatised Contact in 1996, split the >>Electricity Corporation into competing state-owned enterprises
in 1998, and partially-privatised Genesis, Mercury and Meridian in
2013. Coalition agreements and other proclamations commit to
doubling renewable electricity by 2050, but also scrap the 100%
renewable energy target and the Onslow pumped hydro scheme.
A decade of data shows next to no growth in national generating
capacity against $11 billion in dividends for shareholders, 142
percent of net profit after tax. These costs slow the expansion
of generating capacity and the decarbonisation of industrial and
transport emissions, as well as impact the competitiveness of
domestic manufacturing and job creation. This data shows that
privatisation has failed to deliver for people and planet.
https://union.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Generating-Scarcity-2023-update.pdf
From the Conclusion of the report:
"A decade of data shows the ongoing costs of partial-privatisation
in the electricity sector. For every dollar of investment over that
decade, gentailers have paid out $2.41 in shareholder dividends.
Since 2014, the gentailers have distributed $4.2 billion in excess >>dividends, putting shareholders ahead of households, communities
and the environment. While investment in 2023 has topped
shareholder dividends for the first time in more than a decade, high >>interest rates and an uncertain regulatory environment threaten
that progress."
and
"The electricity industry should serve as a warning for other areas
of the economy in which privatisation is being promoted as an
option. The global surge in interest rates has served to increase
the global wealth divide, and vast swathes of capital are looking
for new profitable investment opportunities. Historically public
sector spheres of activity like electricity and health are ranking at
the top of these lists. Private sector innovations can help improve
the cost and efficiency of delivering of public services, but it is
crucial that those control of those services remain in public hands.
This will ensure the benefits of greater efficiency help us in the
process of achieving a just transition that supports the interests of >>people and planet."
And another article: >https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/05/10/government-hypes-gas-crisis-ahead-of-restarting-drilling/
from that:
While it may be more difficult to guarantee demand for gas, the
Government is looking at two ways to sweeten the pot for potential
investors. The first is to repeal rules implemented by the previous >government about decommissioning old wells.
In 2019, the operator of the Tui oil field went into liquidation. That
left the government footing a $443 million bill to cap the Tui wells
and perform other work to safely close down the field. In response,
new legislation was passed to require oil and gas developers to put
aside collateral to cover the costs of decommissioning before they
begin new drilling.
Brown said this had also affected the confidence of investors and
could be repealed. He declined on Thursday to say whether such a move
could leave taxpayers footing another bill for hundreds of millions of >dollars, instead walking away from reporters.
The other change, raised by Jones, would be to give developers a
guarantee that the Government would cover its costs if projects turn
out to be uneconomic. While initially raised as a scheme that would
only pay out if a future government re-banned oil and gas development,
the policy is still being shaped and could be turned into a more
general underwrite for offshore fossil fuel extraction.
Such schemes raise the risk of stranded assets worth hundreds of
millions of dollars, if development goes ahead but the country
continues to decarbonise. The alternative scenario is even worse,
however."
and
"The obvious, most economic, choice is renewable electricity. The
price of solar in the Asia-Pacific region fell 23 percent last year
alone and utility-scale solar is the region’s cheapest source of
energy.
But the complex interdependencies of the gas market in New Zealand
mean particular policy and investment decisions could keep us hooked
on expensive, dangerous fossil fuels for far longer, while the rest of
the world moves decisively towards a renewable future.
Arguing that the steady and expected decline in gas supply and demand
is in fact a sudden and violent cratering in the market helps lay the >groundwork for those policy and investment decisions."
and from a comment by Peter Olerenshaw below the article:
"And the reason for using gas, and even better coal right through the
day is that all the generators get that high price when fossil
generation is being used – thats just the way our loopy power system
is set up. So the hydro generators with their very low costs get
windfall profits as long as there is still high production priced
fossil generation in the mix. They have absolutely no interest and
everything to gains from having gas or coal generating 24/7"
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 11 May 2024 17:04:00 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:You are still way off beam, Just your usual polical childishness.
On Thu, 09 May 2024 23:05:32 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 06:04:35 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:No sarcasm:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Sarcasm removed.
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too >>>>>>>many
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can >>>>>>>>>reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of >>>>>>>>> >supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world >>>>>>>>>country.
And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave >>>>>>>>>me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
near
misses.
I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We
could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions
could do it.
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2024/05/the-wrong-direction.html
has a few ideas.
Another is that we use slash from the Gisborne floods, - cut it up >>>>mechanically, then process that material to be suitable for use
instead of coal - I have heard that this could be done to produce >>>>better energy output than coal from Indonesia at lower cost, and it >>>>would assist in raising money for better rail and coastal shipping >>>>resources.
It turns out though that the biggest hurdle stopping us from having >>>adequate power at a good price is indeed the Bradford "reforms" that
put private profit first before both our ability to supply enough
power or cheaper power:
"In November 2022, 350 Aotearoa, NZCTU and FIRST Union
released a report claiming that from 2014 to 2021, the four >>>generator-retailer “gentailers” – that dominate 87 percent of the
NZ electricity market – had collectively paid out $3.7 billion in
excess dividends to shareholders. An excess dividend is when the
amount distributed in dividends to shareholders is greater than
the after-tax profit generated by the company. Excess dividend >>>distribution surged in the wake of the Key Government’s partial >>>privatisation of Genesis, Meridian and Mercury, putting upward
pressure on electricity prices and slowing the energy transition
away from fossil fuels.
Since the report’s release, communities across the country have
faced the impacts of increasingly powerful extreme weather
events alongside a cost-of-living crisis. Cyclones and flooding
events have hammered areas like Taitokerau, Tamaki Makaurau
and Tairawhiti, destroying livelihoods and bringing into question
the long-term viability of entire industries like horticulture and >>>forestry in these areas. The need for a just transition is greater
than ever before.
This briefing updates that report with the latest data, insights
from engagement with policymakers, and new developments in
our campaign for an electricity system that works for people and
planet:
• In 2023 the gentailers distributed $1.1 billion in dividends to >>>shareholders from net profit after tax of only $521 million,
an excess dividend of $638 million (Meridian: $423 million,
Mercury: $194 million, and Contact: $116 million). This is the >>>third-highest excess dividend paid to shareholders since >>>partial-privatisation ($817 million in 2015 and $639 million in
2016).
• In the decade to 2023, dividends have totaled almost $10.8
billion (including excess dividends of $4.2 billion), while
investment on plant, property, and equipment over the
decade came to only $4.5 billion. For every dollar spent on plant, >>>property, and equipment, $2.41 has been spent
paying shareholder dividends.
• 2023 is the first year since 2013 that cumulative gentailer
investments in plant, property, and equipment were higher
than cumulative gentailer dividends. However in the last
decade, total generating capacity has increased by only
one percent.
With a new Government formed, discussions about the role of the
private sector in the transition to a low-emissions energy future are >>>crucial. National Governments privatised Contact in 1996, split the >>>Electricity Corporation into competing state-owned enterprises
in 1998, and partially-privatised Genesis, Mercury and Meridian in
2013. Coalition agreements and other proclamations commit to
doubling renewable electricity by 2050, but also scrap the 100%
renewable energy target and the Onslow pumped hydro scheme.
A decade of data shows next to no growth in national generating
capacity against $11 billion in dividends for shareholders, 142
percent of net profit after tax. These costs slow the expansion
of generating capacity and the decarbonisation of industrial and >>>transport emissions, as well as impact the competitiveness of
domestic manufacturing and job creation. This data shows that >>>privatisation has failed to deliver for people and planet.plant, >>>property, and equipment, $2.41 has been spent
paying shareholder dividends.
• 2023 is the first year since 2013 that cumulative gentailer
investments in plant, property, and equipment were higher
than cumulative gentailer dividends. However in the last
decade, total generating capacity has increased by only
one percent.
With a new Government formed, discussions about the role of the
private sector in the transition to a low-emissions energy future are >>>crucial. National Governments privatised Contact in 1996, split the >>>Electricity Corporation into competing state-owned enterprises
in 1998, and partially-privatised Genesis, Mercury and Meridian in
2013. Coalition agreements and other proclamations commit to
doubling renewable electricity by 2050, but also scrap the 100%
renewable energy target and the Onslow pumped hydro scheme.
A decade of data shows next to no growth in national generating
capacity against $11 billion in dividends for shareholders, 142
percent of net profit after tax. These costs slow the expansion
of generating capacity and the decarbonisation of industrial and >>>transport emissions, as well as impact the competitiveness of
domestic manufacturing and job creation. This data shows that >>>privatisation has failed to deliver for people and planet.
https://union.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Generating-Scarcity-2023-update.pdf
From the Conclusion of the report:
"A decade of data shows the ongoing costs of partial-privatisation
in the electricity sector. For every dollar of investment over that >>>decade, gentailers have paid out $2.41 in shareholder dividends.
Since 2014, the gentailers have distributed $4.2 billion in excess >>>dividends, putting shareholders ahead of households, communities
and the environment. While investment in 2023 has topped
shareholder dividends for the first time in more than a decade, high >>>interest rates and an uncertain regulatory environment threaten
that progress."
and
"The electricity industry should serve as a warning for other areas
of the economy in which privatisation is being promoted as an
option. The global surge in interest rates has served to increase
the global wealth divide, and vast swathes of capital are looking
for new profitable investment opportunities. Historically public
sector spheres of activity like electricity and health are ranking at
the top of these lists. Private sector innovations can help improve
the cost and efficiency of delivering of public services, but it is >>>crucial that those control of those services remain in public hands.
This will ensure the benefits of greater efficiency help us in the >>>process of achieving a just transition that supports the interests of >>>people and planet."
And another article: >>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/05/10/government-hypes-gas-crisis-ahead-of-restarting-drilling/
from that:
While it may be more difficult to guarantee demand for gas, the
Government is looking at two ways to sweeten the pot for potential >>investors. The first is to repeal rules implemented by the previous >>government about decommissioning old wells.
In 2019, the operator of the Tui oil field went into liquidation. That
left the government footing a $443 million bill to cap the Tui wells
and perform other work to safely close down the field. In response,
new legislation was passed to require oil and gas developers to put
aside collateral to cover the costs of decommissioning before they
begin new drilling.
Brown said this had also affected the confidence of investors and
could be repealed. He declined on Thursday to say whether such a move
could leave taxpayers footing another bill for hundreds of millions of >>dollars, instead walking away from reporters.
The other change, raised by Jones, would be to give developers a
guarantee that the Government would cover its costs if projects turn
out to be uneconomic. While initially raised as a scheme that would
only pay out if a future government re-banned oil and gas development,
the policy is still being shaped and could be turned into a more
general underwrite for offshore fossil fuel extraction.
Such schemes raise the risk of stranded assets worth hundreds of
millions of dollars, if development goes ahead but the country
continues to decarbonise. The alternative scenario is even worse,
however."
and
"The obvious, most economic, choice is renewable electricity. The
price of solar in the Asia-Pacific region fell 23 percent last year
alone and utility-scale solar is the region’s cheapest source of
energy.
But the complex interdependencies of the gas market in New Zealand
mean particular policy and investment decisions could keep us hooked
on expensive, dangerous fossil fuels for far longer, while the rest of
the world moves decisively towards a renewable future.
Arguing that the steady and expected decline in gas supply and demand
is in fact a sudden and violent cratering in the market helps lay the >>groundwork for those policy and investment decisions."
and from a comment by Peter Olerenshaw below the article:
"And the reason for using gas, and even better coal right through the
day is that all the generators get that high price when fossil
generation is being used – thats just the way our loopy power system
is set up. So the hydro generators with their very low costs get
windfall profits as long as there is still high production priced
fossil generation in the mix. They have absolutely no interest and >>everything to gains from having gas or coal generating 24/7"
On Mon, 13 May 2024 09:14:04 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>Reversing Bradford's changes.
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:What wasn't when Clark's government came to power, Mutley?
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We >>>>>could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions >>>>>could do it.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >>>>>>>the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current >>>>power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>>>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing >>>>just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say >>>>national is.
It is now very difficult to unwind - would you really want your tax >>>dollars to be spent buying the owners of the gentailers out? The only >>>way I see is a compulsory change to the market similar to the Telecom >>>Restructure - there may be court cases for compensation however - so
you tell us how to reverse the Bradford changes, Mutley . . .
But it wasn't when Clark's government came to power.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:So reversing Bradford's changes wasn't when Clark's government came to
On Mon, 13 May 2024 09:14:04 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>Reversing Bradford's changes.
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:What wasn't when Clark's government came to power, Mutley?
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We >>>>>>could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions >>>>>>could do it.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current >>>>>power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>>>>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing >>>>>just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say >>>>>national is.
It is now very difficult to unwind - would you really want your tax >>>>dollars to be spent buying the owners of the gentailers out? The only >>>>way I see is a compulsory change to the market similar to the Telecom >>>>Restructure - there may be court cases for compensation however - so >>>>you tell us how to reverse the Bradford changes, Mutley . . .
But it wasn't when Clark's government came to power.
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.3rymZ#0wHpowpg@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >says...
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nzHowever tomorrow morning we are wraned there will be.
says...
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country.https://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of
supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene. >> >> Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reduce >> >> consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >> >the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower-
says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
My previous comments now re-inforced.
Apparently todays issue is caused by there being 700MW of generation >offline for maintenance. They wanted to carry out maintenance now to getResilience is therefore questionable.
it done before the cold weather arrived, but the cold weather arrived >sooner than expected.
On Tue, 14 May 2024 15:15:53 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>My original post said which you didn'r read said that Helen Clark's
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:So reversing Bradford's changes wasn't when Clark's government came to
On Mon, 13 May 2024 09:14:04 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:Reversing Bradford's changes.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:What wasn't when Clark's government came to power, Mutley?
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We >>>>>>>could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions >>>>>>>could do it.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world country. And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current >>>>>>power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>>>>>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing >>>>>>just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say >>>>>>national is.
It is now very difficult to unwind - would you really want your tax >>>>>dollars to be spent buying the owners of the gentailers out? The only >>>>>way I see is a compulsory change to the market similar to the Telecom >>>>>Restructure - there may be court cases for compensation however - so >>>>>you tell us how to reverse the Bradford changes, Mutley . . .
But it wasn't when Clark's government came to power.
power.
Does that even make sense to you, Mutley?
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:All correct.
On Tue, 14 May 2024 15:15:53 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com>My original post said which you didn'r read said that Helen Clark's >government came to power shortly after Max Bradford's changes to the
wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:So reversing Bradford's changes wasn't when Clark's government came to >>power.
On Mon, 13 May 2024 09:14:04 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:Reversing Bradford's changes.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:What wasn't when Clark's government came to power, Mutley?
On Sun, 12 May 2024 14:33:09 +1200, Mutley <mutley2000@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>>>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>>>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>>>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We >>>>>>>>could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>>>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions >>>>>>>>could do it.
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too >>>>>>>>>many near
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can >>>>>>>>>>>reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of >>>>>>>>>>> >supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power >>>>>>>>>>> >scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world >>>>>>>>>>>country. And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer >>>>>>>>>>>leave me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't >>>>>>>>>>like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
misses.
Ah the Bradford reforms. The leftist favorite term for the current >>>>>>>power structure. Helen Clacks and her government could have reversed >>>>>>>these as she became the government the next election but did nothing >>>>>>>just reaped the dividends so you are just as guilty as you say >>>>>>>national is.
It is now very difficult to unwind - would you really want your tax >>>>>>dollars to be spent buying the owners of the gentailers out? The only >>>>>>way I see is a compulsory change to the market similar to the Telecom >>>>>>Restructure - there may be court cases for compensation however - so >>>>>>you tell us how to reverse the Bradford changes, Mutley . . .
But it wasn't when Clark's government came to power.
Does that even make sense to you, Mutley?
power industry took place. Labor made lots of noises about these
changes but did nothing to reverse them when they got in a short time
later.
On Mon, 13 May 2024 07:08:42 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 11 May 2024 17:04:00 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:You are still way off beam, Just your usual polical childishness.
On Thu, 09 May 2024 23:05:32 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 06:04:35 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:No sarcasm:
On Thu, 9 May 2024 01:39:09 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:Sarcasm removed.
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nz >>>>>>>>>says...I am pleased to hear it. However my comments still stand. We have too >>>>>>>>many
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I can >>>>>>>>>>reducehttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of >>>>>>>>>> >supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power >>>>>>>>>> >scene.
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world >>>>>>>>>>country.
And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer >>>>>>>>>>leave
me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't >>>>>>>>>like
the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs: >>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower- >>>>>>>>>says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
near
misses.
I agree Tony, it is because the "Bradford reforms" that resulted in a >>>>>cartel of companies that are required to maximise profits - as it >>>>>stands they are better off keeping the spot price of electricity high, >>>>>and that works well when they have to use Huntly to burn coal. We >>>>>could do with a new government owned generator, or other means of >>>>>making use of Huntly very expensive - a separate tax on emissions >>>>>could do it.
https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2024/05/the-wrong-direction.html >>>>>has a few ideas.
Another is that we use slash from the Gisborne floods, - cut it up >>>>>mechanically, then process that material to be suitable for use >>>>>instead of coal - I have heard that this could be done to produce >>>>>better energy output than coal from Indonesia at lower cost, and it >>>>>would assist in raising money for better rail and coastal shipping >>>>>resources.
It turns out though that the biggest hurdle stopping us from having >>>>adequate power at a good price is indeed the Bradford "reforms" that >>>>put private profit first before both our ability to supply enough
power or cheaper power:
"In November 2022, 350 Aotearoa, NZCTU and FIRST Union
released a report claiming that from 2014 to 2021, the four >>>>generator-retailer “gentailers” – that dominate 87 percent of the
NZ electricity market – had collectively paid out $3.7 billion in >>>>excess dividends to shareholders. An excess dividend is when the
amount distributed in dividends to shareholders is greater than
the after-tax profit generated by the company. Excess dividend >>>>distribution surged in the wake of the Key Government’s partial >>>>privatisation of Genesis, Meridian and Mercury, putting upward
pressure on electricity prices and slowing the energy transition
away from fossil fuels.
Since the report’s release, communities across the country have
faced the impacts of increasingly powerful extreme weather
events alongside a cost-of-living crisis. Cyclones and flooding
events have hammered areas like Taitokerau, Tamaki Makaurau
and Tairawhiti, destroying livelihoods and bringing into question
the long-term viability of entire industries like horticulture and >>>>forestry in these areas. The need for a just transition is greater
than ever before.
This briefing updates that report with the latest data, insights
from engagement with policymakers, and new developments in
our campaign for an electricity system that works for people and >>>>planet:
• In 2023 the gentailers distributed $1.1 billion in dividends to >>>>shareholders from net profit after tax of only $521 million,
an excess dividend of $638 million (Meridian: $423 million,
Mercury: $194 million, and Contact: $116 million). This is the >>>>third-highest excess dividend paid to shareholders since >>>>partial-privatisation ($817 million in 2015 and $639 million in
2016).
• In the decade to 2023, dividends have totaled almost $10.8
billion (including excess dividends of $4.2 billion), while
investment on plant, property, and equipment over the
decade came to only $4.5 billion. For every dollar spent on plant, >>>>property, and equipment, $2.41 has been spent
paying shareholder dividends.
• 2023 is the first year since 2013 that cumulative gentailer >>>>investments in plant, property, and equipment were higher
than cumulative gentailer dividends. However in the last
decade, total generating capacity has increased by only
one percent.
With a new Government formed, discussions about the role of the
private sector in the transition to a low-emissions energy future are >>>>crucial. National Governments privatised Contact in 1996, split the >>>>Electricity Corporation into competing state-owned enterprises
in 1998, and partially-privatised Genesis, Mercury and Meridian in >>>>2013. Coalition agreements and other proclamations commit to
doubling renewable electricity by 2050, but also scrap the 100% >>>>renewable energy target and the Onslow pumped hydro scheme.
A decade of data shows next to no growth in national generating >>>>capacity against $11 billion in dividends for shareholders, 142
percent of net profit after tax. These costs slow the expansion
of generating capacity and the decarbonisation of industrial and >>>>transport emissions, as well as impact the competitiveness of
domestic manufacturing and job creation. This data shows that >>>>privatisation has failed to deliver for people and planet.plant, >>>>property, and equipment, $2.41 has been spent
paying shareholder dividends.
• 2023 is the first year since 2013 that cumulative gentailer >>>>investments in plant, property, and equipment were higher
than cumulative gentailer dividends. However in the last
decade, total generating capacity has increased by only
one percent.
With a new Government formed, discussions about the role of the
private sector in the transition to a low-emissions energy future are >>>>crucial. National Governments privatised Contact in 1996, split the >>>>Electricity Corporation into competing state-owned enterprises
in 1998, and partially-privatised Genesis, Mercury and Meridian in >>>>2013. Coalition agreements and other proclamations commit to
doubling renewable electricity by 2050, but also scrap the 100% >>>>renewable energy target and the Onslow pumped hydro scheme.
A decade of data shows next to no growth in national generating >>>>capacity against $11 billion in dividends for shareholders, 142
percent of net profit after tax. These costs slow the expansion
of generating capacity and the decarbonisation of industrial and >>>>transport emissions, as well as impact the competitiveness of
domestic manufacturing and job creation. This data shows that >>>>privatisation has failed to deliver for people and planet.
https://union.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Generating-Scarcity-2023-update.pdf
From the Conclusion of the report:
"A decade of data shows the ongoing costs of partial-privatisation
in the electricity sector. For every dollar of investment over that >>>>decade, gentailers have paid out $2.41 in shareholder dividends.
Since 2014, the gentailers have distributed $4.2 billion in excess >>>>dividends, putting shareholders ahead of households, communities
and the environment. While investment in 2023 has topped
shareholder dividends for the first time in more than a decade, high >>>>interest rates and an uncertain regulatory environment threaten
that progress."
and
"The electricity industry should serve as a warning for other areas
of the economy in which privatisation is being promoted as an
option. The global surge in interest rates has served to increase
the global wealth divide, and vast swathes of capital are looking
for new profitable investment opportunities. Historically public
sector spheres of activity like electricity and health are ranking at >>>>the top of these lists. Private sector innovations can help improve
the cost and efficiency of delivering of public services, but it is >>>>crucial that those control of those services remain in public hands. >>>>This will ensure the benefits of greater efficiency help us in the >>>>process of achieving a just transition that supports the interests of >>>>people and planet."
And another article: >>>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/05/10/government-hypes-gas-crisis-ahead-of-restarting-drilling/
from that:
While it may be more difficult to guarantee demand for gas, the >>>Government is looking at two ways to sweeten the pot for potential >>>investors. The first is to repeal rules implemented by the previous >>>government about decommissioning old wells.
In 2019, the operator of the Tui oil field went into liquidation. That >>>left the government footing a $443 million bill to cap the Tui wells
and perform other work to safely close down the field. In response,
new legislation was passed to require oil and gas developers to put
aside collateral to cover the costs of decommissioning before they
begin new drilling.
Brown said this had also affected the confidence of investors and
could be repealed. He declined on Thursday to say whether such a move >>>could leave taxpayers footing another bill for hundreds of millions of >>>dollars, instead walking away from reporters.
The other change, raised by Jones, would be to give developers a >>>guarantee that the Government would cover its costs if projects turn
out to be uneconomic. While initially raised as a scheme that would
only pay out if a future government re-banned oil and gas development, >>>the policy is still being shaped and could be turned into a more
general underwrite for offshore fossil fuel extraction.
Such schemes raise the risk of stranded assets worth hundreds of
millions of dollars, if development goes ahead but the country
continues to decarbonise. The alternative scenario is even worse, >>>however."
and
"The obvious, most economic, choice is renewable electricity. The
price of solar in the Asia-Pacific region fell 23 percent last year
alone and utility-scale solar is the region’s cheapest source of
energy.
But the complex interdependencies of the gas market in New Zealand
mean particular policy and investment decisions could keep us hooked
on expensive, dangerous fossil fuels for far longer, while the rest of >>>the world moves decisively towards a renewable future.
Arguing that the steady and expected decline in gas supply and demand
is in fact a sudden and violent cratering in the market helps lay the >>>groundwork for those policy and investment decisions."
and from a comment by Peter Olerenshaw below the article:
"And the reason for using gas, and even better coal right through the
day is that all the generators get that high price when fossil
generation is being used – thats just the way our loopy power system
is set up. So the hydro generators with their very low costs get
windfall profits as long as there is still high production priced
fossil generation in the mix. They have absolutely no interest and >>>everything to gains from having gas or coal generating 24/7"
It is all about truthfulness and mendacity from the shareholders, Tony Nonsense - it is about your bullshit.
In article <part1of1.1.#BWTvJ8ssVKuqQ@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nzI didn't say it was easy, I merely pointed out that we are short on resilience, and we clearly are.
says...
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.3rymZ#0wHpowpg@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nzResilience is therefore questionable.
says...
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <part1of1.1.RRUXE20kSqvg9Q@ue.ph>, lizandtony@orcon.net.nzHowever tomorrow morning we are wraned there will be.
says...
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
Ironically my power supplier has just emailed me asking if I canhttps://www.ea.govt.nz/news/eye-on-electricity/unlocking-the-potential-for-batteries-to-contribute-to-security-of-supply/
Here we go people, a power grid battery for profit and security of
supply.
No a great lot of detail but enough for you to update the power scene.
reduce
consumption tonight due to a tightness in the grid.
Decades of neglecting our grid is turning us into a third world
country.
And
the fools who think that wind turbines and solar are the answer leave >> >> >>me
cold.
Turns out this was just a trial. That or your power provider didn't like >> >> >the spot price and was hoping to cut their costs:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350272383/no-power-issue-transpower-
says-despite-retailers-message-kiwis
Either way, no grid issue last night.
My previous comments now re-inforced.
Apparently todays issue is caused by there being 700MW of generation
offline for maintenance. They wanted to carry out maintenance now to get
it done before the cold weather arrived, but the cold weather arrived
sooner than expected.
I guess we could have had an extra 700MW of generation on the grid
somewhere - problem is the vast majority of the time that generation
isn't going to be doing anything. Its going to be costing whoever owns
it money, rather than making them a profit.
And as we run our power network with the goal of making a profit rather
than providing reliable low cost power, unprofitable generation doesn't
get built or remain built. For example, the 600MW New Plymouth power
station was demolished a decade or so back as it was no longer
profitable.
Building a bunch of storage is probably the best option as it isn't
limited to making money in situations like this. Given the investigation
into the viability of Lake Onslow has been canceled, this solution will
now have to come from some company.
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