Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise
Trust the author and you (of course) to make political capital out of misery and grief.
Not to mention the inaccuracies in the article, most importantly it was never a coalition promise, it was a National party promise made before the election, Guess what? They had to make some compromises because of the coalition agreements.
Simple really. but feel free to use the misery of others for your own trivial reasons as usual..

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:14:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise
Trust the author and you (of course) to make political capital out of misery >and grief.
Not to mention the inaccuracies in the article, most importantly it was never a
coalition promise, it was a National party promise made before the election, >Guess what? They had to make some compromises because of the coalition >agreements.
Simple really. but feel free to use the misery of others for your own trivial >reasons as usual..

To be fair to Rich there was a reference to '13 Cancer Treatments in
the coalition agreement between National and NZF

https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350118190/national-nz-first-coalition-agreement-full

Scroll down to "Policy Program", paragraph F. Note that no timeframe
is specified so the default is the current Parliamentary term.

Cancer-related promises are always a minefield. The PM has since
promised to fund finding for 13 new cancer drugs for Pharmac.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2024-06-10, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:14:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise
Trust the author and you (of course) to make political capital out of misery >>and grief.
Not to mention the inaccuracies in the article, most importantly it was never a
coalition promise, it was a National party promise made before the election, >>Guess what? They had to make some compromises because of the coalition >>agreements.
Simple really. but feel free to use the misery of others for your own trivial >>reasons as usual..

To be fair to Rich there was a reference to '13 Cancer Treatments in
the coalition agreement between National and NZF

https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350118190/national-nz-first-coalition-agreement-full

Scroll down to "Policy Program", paragraph F. Note that no timeframe
is specified so the default is the current Parliamentary term.

Cancer-related promises are always a minefield. The PM has since
promised to fund finding for 13 new cancer drugs for Pharmac.

As I see it, National has always said it will fund the cancer treatments. However owing to the finances at handover there is not as much money as expected, either because of National's miscalulation or that Labour had
spent more than it appeared.

Spending on health matters can take country's GDP. What needs to be done now
is for the Government not to let off the hook.

Have far the tax cuts would have gone to pay for the cancer drugs is
another point.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10 Jun 2024 04:42:28 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

On 2024-06-10, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:14:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise
Trust the author and you (of course) to make political capital out of misery >>>and grief.
Not to mention the inaccuracies in the article, most importantly it was never a
coalition promise, it was a National party promise made before the election, >>>Guess what? They had to make some compromises because of the coalition >>>agreements.
Simple really. but feel free to use the misery of others for your own trivial
reasons as usual..

To be fair to Rich there was a reference to '13 Cancer Treatments in
the coalition agreement between National and NZF

https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350118190/national-nz-first-coalition-agreement-full

Scroll down to "Policy Program", paragraph F. Note that no timeframe
is specified so the default is the current Parliamentary term.

Cancer-related promises are always a minefield. The PM has since
promised to fund finding for 13 new cancer drugs for Pharmac.

As I see it, National has always said it will fund the cancer treatments. >However owing to the finances at handover there is not as much money as >expected, either because of National's miscalulation or that Labour had
spent more than it appeared.

Not to have it covered in the budget documents was a clear signal that
it was not in the budget for the coming year. An interview on the news
this evening was with a man who has purchased one of the drugs for
himself - he said he guesses that if he dies there is the possibility
that the road may not have as many potholes . . .

Spending on health matters can take country's GDP. What needs to be done now >is for the Government not to let off the hook.

Do you mean not let off the brake? Or that we should not let the
government off the hook with such a weak argument?

Have far the tax cuts would have gone to pay for the cancer drugs is
another point.

I suspect the cuts for landlords would have paid for these drugs for
quite some time . . . and they are now saying that New Zealand can
afford the drugs on top of what actually got into the budget . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 13:03:38 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:14:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise
Trust the author and you (of course) to make political capital out of misery >>and grief.

No, that was just honest reporting of genuine misery and grief. If any
party had done the same thing there would have been an outcry, but it
was perhaps a little stronger as the promise had been so clearly made
- life and death can be quite important to people, Tony

Not to mention the inaccuracies in the article, most importantly it was never a
coalition promise, it was a National party promise made before the election, >>Guess what? They had to make some compromises because of the coalition >>agreements.
Simple really. but feel free to use the misery of others for your own trivial >>reasons as usual..

To be fair to Rich there was a reference to '13 Cancer Treatments in
the coalition agreement between National and NZF

https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350118190/national-nz-first-coalition-agreement-full

Scroll down to "Policy Program", paragraph F. Note that no timeframe
is specified so the default is the current Parliamentary term.

I would expect any politician would know that provision of something
that would save a life would be regarded as a little more urgent - a
good politician would know that such a promise cannot be casually
delayed on such a technicality without triggering great
disappointment.

Cancer-related promises are always a minefield. The PM has since
promised to fund finding for 13 new cancer drugs for Pharmac.

There was also a general clause in each agreement that each party
would support issues raised in the other agreement.

Ironically apparently Seymour has some responsibility for Pharmac -
and would not have been impressed with the public blundering by Luxon
that probably added quite a bit to the cost. He did however have the
sense to very quickly publicly support the promise being met.

In addition one doctor made the point that not all of the drugs
mentioned are now the best that could be purchased - the reason Luxon
made mutterings about the procurement process may have been because
they want to do at least some consultation with specialists . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 13:03:38 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:14:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise
Trust the author and you (of course) to make political capital out of misery >>>and grief.

No......

If you want to address me either answer my post or start a new one.


--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 21:51:36 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 13:03:38 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:14:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise
Trust the author and you (of course) to make political capital out of misery >>>and grief.

No, that was just honest reporting of genuine misery and grief. If any
party had done the same thing there would have been an outcry, but it
was perhaps a little stronger as the promise had been so clearly made
- life and death can be quite important to people, Tony

Not to mention the inaccuracies in the article, most importantly it was never a
coalition promise, it was a National party promise made before the election, >>>Guess what? They had to make some compromises because of the coalition >>>agreements.
Simple really. but feel free to use the misery of others for your own trivial
reasons as usual..

To be fair to Rich there was a reference to '13 Cancer Treatments in
the coalition agreement between National and NZF

https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350118190/national-nz-first-coalition-agreement-full

Scroll down to "Policy Program", paragraph F. Note that no timeframe
is specified so the default is the current Parliamentary term.

I would expect any politician would know that provision of something
that would save a life would be regarded as a little more urgent - a
good politician would know that such a promise cannot be casually
delayed on such a technicality without triggering great
disappointment.

While a promise was made without timeframe, people have died with
cancers that unfunded drugs may have prolonged their lives since the
beginning of time. This is no different.

Cancer-related promises are always a minefield. The PM has since
promised to fund finding for 13 new cancer drugs for Pharmac.

There was also a general clause in each agreement that each party
would support issues raised in the other agreement.

So how is that relevant?

Ironically apparently Seymour has some responsibility for Pharmac -
and would not have been impressed with the public blundering by Luxon
that probably added quite a bit to the cost. He did however have the
sense to very quickly publicly support the promise being met.

In addition one doctor made the point that not all of the drugs
mentioned are now the best that could be purchased - the reason Luxon
made mutterings about the procurement process may have been because
they want to do at least some consultation with specialists . . .

I agree that politicians should not be deciding what drugs Pharmac
funds but a promise is a promise, however unwise it may be.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 11 Jun 2024 10:57:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 21:51:36 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 13:03:38 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:14:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise
Trust the author and you (of course) to make political capital out of misery
and grief.

No, that was just honest reporting of genuine misery and grief. If any >>party had done the same thing there would have been an outcry, but it
was perhaps a little stronger as the promise had been so clearly made
- life and death can be quite important to people, Tony

Not to mention the inaccuracies in the article, most importantly it was never a
coalition promise, it was a National party promise made before the election,
Guess what? They had to make some compromises because of the coalition >>>>agreements.
Simple really. but feel free to use the misery of others for your own trivial
reasons as usual..

To be fair to Rich there was a reference to '13 Cancer Treatments in
the coalition agreement between National and NZF

https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/350118190/national-nz-first-coalition-agreement-full

Scroll down to "Policy Program", paragraph F. Note that no timeframe
is specified so the default is the current Parliamentary term.

I would expect any politician would know that provision of something
that would save a life would be regarded as a little more urgent - a
good politician would know that such a promise cannot be casually
delayed on such a technicality without triggering great
disappointment.

While a promise was made without timeframe, people have died with
cancers that unfunded drugs may have prolonged their lives since the >beginning of time. This is no different.

Cancer-related promises are always a minefield. The PM has since >>>promised to fund finding for 13 new cancer drugs for Pharmac.

There was also a general clause in each agreement that each party
would support issues raised in the other agreement.

So how is that relevant?

Some have claimed that because it was not in the agreement with ACT,
that Seymour had vetoed it - I do not believe that to be true.

He will rightly be concerned at the mishandling of it with respect to
Pharmac - for the same reasons as covered here: https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018942142/former-pharmac-chair-hits-out-at-government-promises-over-cancer-drugs

Ironically apparently Seymour has some responsibility for Pharmac -
and would not have been impressed with the public blundering by Luxon
that probably added quite a bit to the cost. He did however have the
sense to very quickly publicly support the promise being met.

In addition one doctor made the point that not all of the drugs
mentioned are now the best that could be purchased - the reason Luxon
made mutterings about the procurement process may have been because
they want to do at least some consultation with specialists . . .

I agree that politicians should not be deciding what drugs Pharmac
funds but a promise is a promise, however unwise it may be.

And that is exactly what most people believe - and there has not been
any satisfactory reason given for it not having been included in the
budget.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 21:27:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 13:03:38 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:14:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise
Trust the author and you (of course) to make political capital out of misery
and grief.

No......

If you want to address me either answer my post or start a new one.

I started the post with the subject Honesty Matters - you Tony
responded by as usual being largely off topic, and not being honest. I nevertheless responded to your comments, but I am happy to ignore
posts where you have decided that the best you can do is to delete
relevant comments.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 21:27:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 13:03:38 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 00:14:23 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/350297805/lies-damned-lies-and-how-keep-promise
Trust the author and you (of course) to make political capital out of >>>>>misery
and grief.

No......

If you want to address me either answer my post or start a new one.

As above.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)