https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/07/16/jones-staffer-arranged-undeclared-dinner-with-mining-companies/
and responses
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1812971763598565793
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1813017158546563390
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 16:25:56 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>The same question was asked many times of the last government. The answer never arrived.
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 14:02:03 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if hishttps://newsroom.co.nz/2024/07/16/jones-staffer-arranged-undeclared-dinner-with-mining-companies/
and responses
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1812971763598565793
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1813017158546563390
intentions are good. He remains where he is because he is (currently)
and was (2017-2020) a NZ First Minister. I remind us all that Jones
was a member of the Labour party for many years, resigning from
Parliament in 2014 before the election that year.
Cabinet Ministers can only be dismissed by their party leader unless
that dismissal is automatic. This is because the allocation of
ministerial positions is usually part of a coalition agreement. In
Jones's case, only Peters an dismiss him (though Luxon can ask him to)
and Peters gets to choose his replacement.
What bullshit. In effect you are saying that the coalition agreements >override all MP and Ministerial standards - and rules of Parliament as
well as laws of the land.
Consider Casey Costello - >https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/04/12/minister-left-46b-benefit-of-smokefree-reforms-out-of-cabinet-paper/
https://indiannews.nz/2024/07/11/associate-health-minister-casey-costello-severely-reprimanded-by-chief-ombudsman-and-forced-to-apologize-for-concealing-tobacco-and-vaping-policy-information/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/510246/officials-urged-associate-health-minister-casey-costello-to-retain-parts-of-smokefree-laws-briefings-reveal
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-first-minister-casey-costello-forced-to-apologise-after-acting-contrary-to-law/ADQGGE2XJJFT5OUKPZKYXFGH4Q/#:~:text=Associate%20Health%20Minister%20Casey%20Costello,unreasonable%20and%20contrary%20to%20law%E2%80%9D.
What does a Minister have to do to get sacked in this government?
Examples such as this are an indication that Luxon is fatally weak -Your English is abominable. Contrary to law is a concise statement of fact and therefore cannot be a euphamism (by definition). Do take some lessons, it is never too late.
and that Seymour and Peters have contempt for both the law and for the >public. The Herald used the euphemism of "contrary to law" - in
other cases her actions would have been called "illegal."
Of course her background does not inspire confidence as toWhich is exactly what it is.
truthfulness - see https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/casey_costello_thanked
which includes the bizarre statement "The Taxpayers’ Union is a
non-partisan organisation . ."
In any previous Government being publicly found to have actedNot the last government.
"contrary to law" on such a matter would have meant immediate loss of
a ministerial portfolio
- and the protestations of Seymour, Peters and
Luxon about a few cases under Labour that did not even reach that
level are now seen to be gross hypocrisy.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 14:02:03 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/07/16/jones-staffer-arranged-undeclared-dinner-with-mining-companies/Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if his
and responses
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1812971763598565793
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1813017158546563390
intentions are good. He remains where he is because he is (currently)
and was (2017-2020) a NZ First Minister. I remind us all that Jones
was a member of the Labour party for many years, resigning from
Parliament in 2014 before the election that year.
Cabinet Ministers can only be dismissed by their party leader unless
that dismissal is automatic. This is because the allocation of
ministerial positions is usually part of a coalition agreement. In
Jones's case, only Peters an dismiss him (though Luxon can ask him to)
and Peters gets to choose his replacement.
Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if his
intentions are good.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 16:25:56 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 14:02:03 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if hishttps://newsroom.co.nz/2024/07/16/jones-staffer-arranged-undeclared-dinner-with-mining-companies/
and responses
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1812971763598565793
https://x.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1813017158546563390
intentions are good. He remains where he is because he is (currently)
and was (2017-2020) a NZ First Minister. I remind us all that Jones
was a member of the Labour party for many years, resigning from
Parliament in 2014 before the election that year.
Cabinet Ministers can only be dismissed by their party leader unless
that dismissal is automatic. This is because the allocation of
ministerial positions is usually part of a coalition agreement. In
Jones's case, only Peters an dismiss him (though Luxon can ask him to)
and Peters gets to choose his replacement.
What bullshit. In effect you are saying that the coalition agreements >override all MP and Ministerial standards - and rules of Parliament as
well as laws of the land.
Consider Casey Costello - >https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/04/12/minister-left-46b-benefit-of-smokefree-reforms-out-of-cabinet-paper/
https://indiannews.nz/2024/07/11/associate-health-minister-casey-costello-severely-reprimanded-by-chief-ombudsman-and-forced-to-apologize-for-concealing-tobacco-and-vaping-policy-information/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/510246/officials-urged-associate-health-minister-casey-costello-to-retain-parts-of-smokefree-laws-briefings-reveal
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-first-minister-casey-costello-forced-to-apologise-after-acting-contrary-to-law/ADQGGE2XJJFT5OUKPZKYXFGH4Q/#:~:text=Associate%20Health%20Minister%20Casey%20Costello,unreasonable%20and%20contrary%20to%20law%E2%80%9D.
What does a Minister have to do to get sacked in this government?
Examples such as this are an indication that Luxon is fatally weak -
and that Seymour and Peters have contempt for both the law and for the >public. The Herald used the euphemism of "contrary to law" - in
other cases her actions would have been called "illegal."
Of course her background does not inspire confidence as to
truthfulness - see https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/casey_costello_thanked
which includes the bizarre statement "The Taxpayers’ Union is a
non-partisan organisation . ."
In any previous Government being publicly found to have acted
"contrary to law" on such a matter would have meant immediate loss of
a ministerial portfolio - and the protestations of Seymour, Peters and
Luxon about a few cases under Labour that did not even reach that
level are now seen to be gross hypocrisy.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if his
intentions are good.
He's also doing a great job -- how about conceding that.
Whereas Shane Reti, Minister of Health (Nat.), is doing a lousy job.
He is allowing the DGH to continue enforcing the fluoridisation of
town water supplies all over NZ, even though the people don't want it.
This was Bloomfield's throwaway last act on the day he resigned. How >contemptible an action, and how contemptible that it isn't being >countermanded by Reti. Nats letting voters down.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:14:43 GMT, wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if his
intentions are good.
He's also doing a great job -- how about conceding that.
Whereas Shane Reti, Minister of Health (Nat.), is doing a lousy job.
He is allowing the DGH to continue enforcing the fluoridisation of
town water supplies all over NZ, even though the people don't want it.
This was Bloomfield's throwaway last act on the day he resigned. How >>contemptible an action, and how contemptible that it isn't being >>countermanded by Reti. Nats letting voters down.
This is Rich's thread - about Shane Jones. Reti is another issue -
feel free to start your own thread.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 20:56:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:14:43 GMT, wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if his >>>>intentions are good.
He's also doing a great job -- how about conceding that.
Whereas Shane Reti, Minister of Health (Nat.), is doing a lousy job.
He is allowing the DGH to continue enforcing the fluoridisation of
town water supplies all over NZ, even though the people don't want it.
This was Bloomfield's throwaway last act on the day he resigned. How >>>contemptible an action, and how contemptible that it isn't being >>>countermanded by Reti. Nats letting voters down.
This is Rich's thread - about Shane Jones. Reti is another issue -
feel free to start your own thread.
Shane Jones had a staff member arrange, lied about it and did not put
it in his diary. A minister was sacked from the previous government
for doing less.
I agree that Reti has big problems, but not of that type, and I see
nothing wrong with enforcing the law regarding fluoridation - he has
no authority to countermand people complying with the law. If you want
a law change, lobby for it, but don't blame Ministers whose party is
not pushing for a change.
A thread in nz.general belongs to all readers - this is a discussion
group - you have been confused by the bizarre concepts of "ownership"
that Tony has in that regard, Crash.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 20:56:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>Not bizarre, just polite. You are impolite by deliberately answering the wrong person in the hope that the correct person wonn't see it - very childish.
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:14:43 GMT, wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if his >>>>intentions are good.
He's also doing a great job -- how about conceding that.
Whereas Shane Reti, Minister of Health (Nat.), is doing a lousy job.
He is allowing the DGH to continue enforcing the fluoridisation of
town water supplies all over NZ, even though the people don't want it.
This was Bloomfield's throwaway last act on the day he resigned. How >>>contemptible an action, and how contemptible that it isn't being >>>countermanded by Reti. Nats letting voters down.
This is Rich's thread - about Shane Jones. Reti is another issue -
feel free to start your own thread.
Shane Jones had a staff member arrange, lied about it and did not put
it in his diary. A minister was sacked from the previous government
for doing less.
I agree that Reti has big problems, but not of that type, and I see
nothing wrong with enforcing the law regarding fluoridation - he has
no authority to countermand people complying with the law. If you want
a law change, lobby for it, but don't blame Ministers whose party is
not pushing for a change.
A thread in nz.general belongs to all readers - this is a discussion
group - you have been confused by the bizarre concepts of "ownership"
that Tony has in that regard, Crash.
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 22:49:21 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 20:56:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:14:43 GMT, wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if his >>>>>intentions are good.
He's also doing a great job -- how about conceding that.
Whereas Shane Reti, Minister of Health (Nat.), is doing a lousy job.
He is allowing the DGH to continue enforcing the fluoridisation of
town water supplies all over NZ, even though the people don't want it.
This was Bloomfield's throwaway last act on the day he resigned. How >>>>contemptible an action, and how contemptible that it isn't being >>>>countermanded by Reti. Nats letting voters down.
This is Rich's thread - about Shane Jones. Reti is another issue -
feel free to start your own thread.
Shane Jones had a staff member arrange, lied about it and did not put
it in his diary. A minister was sacked from the previous government
for doing less.
I agree that Reti has big problems, but not of that type, and I see
nothing wrong with enforcing the law regarding fluoridation - he has
no authority to countermand people complying with the law. If you want
a law change, lobby for it, but don't blame Ministers whose party is
not pushing for a change.
A thread in nz.general belongs to all readers - this is a discussion
group - you have been confused by the bizarre concepts of "ownership"
that Tony has in that regard, Crash.
Again you demonstrate your ignorance of Usenet conventions. While the
thread as a whole could be said to belong to all of us, the fact is
that the original post (OP) that created this thread is attributed to
you. If you had not written and published (posted) this there would
be no thread. My point was to remind Willy of the OP.
On Wed, 17 Jul 2024 07:52:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>Oh, so you want a written set of rules. No surprise of course. Extreme left wing people love rules. Balanced and reasoned folk, however, use their common sonse and behave politely.
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 22:49:21 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 20:56:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:14:43 GMT, wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if his >>>>>>intentions are good.
He's also doing a great job -- how about conceding that.
Whereas Shane Reti, Minister of Health (Nat.), is doing a lousy job. >>>>>He is allowing the DGH to continue enforcing the fluoridisation of >>>>>town water supplies all over NZ, even though the people don't want it. >>>>>
This was Bloomfield's throwaway last act on the day he resigned. How >>>>>contemptible an action, and how contemptible that it isn't being >>>>>countermanded by Reti. Nats letting voters down.
This is Rich's thread - about Shane Jones. Reti is another issue - >>>>feel free to start your own thread.
Shane Jones had a staff member arrange, lied about it and did not put
it in his diary. A minister was sacked from the previous government
for doing less.
I agree that Reti has big problems, but not of that type, and I see >>>nothing wrong with enforcing the law regarding fluoridation - he has
no authority to countermand people complying with the law. If you want
a law change, lobby for it, but don't blame Ministers whose party is
not pushing for a change.
A thread in nz.general belongs to all readers - this is a discussion >>>group - you have been confused by the bizarre concepts of "ownership" >>>that Tony has in that regard, Crash.
Again you demonstrate your ignorance of Usenet conventions. While the >>thread as a whole could be said to belong to all of us, the fact is
that the original post (OP) that created this thread is attributed to
you. If you had not written and published (posted) this there would
be no thread. My point was to remind Willy of the OP.
So post a copy of those Usenet conventions relating to nz.general.
In the meanwhile; to get discussion back on track, see this article: >https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulletin/18-07-2024/the-missing-diary-entry-thats-still-dogging-shane-jones
On Wed, 17 Jul 2024 07:52:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 22:49:21 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 20:56:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:14:43 GMT, wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2024, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Shane Jones is a well-known clown here up North - even if his >>>>>>intentions are good.
He's also doing a great job -- how about conceding that.
Whereas Shane Reti, Minister of Health (Nat.), is doing a lousy job. >>>>>He is allowing the DGH to continue enforcing the fluoridisation of >>>>>town water supplies all over NZ, even though the people don't want it. >>>>>
This was Bloomfield's throwaway last act on the day he resigned. How >>>>>contemptible an action, and how contemptible that it isn't being >>>>>countermanded by Reti. Nats letting voters down.
This is Rich's thread - about Shane Jones. Reti is another issue - >>>>feel free to start your own thread.
Shane Jones had a staff member arrange, lied about it and did not put
it in his diary. A minister was sacked from the previous government
for doing less.
I agree that Reti has big problems, but not of that type, and I see >>>nothing wrong with enforcing the law regarding fluoridation - he has
no authority to countermand people complying with the law. If you want
a law change, lobby for it, but don't blame Ministers whose party is
not pushing for a change.
A thread in nz.general belongs to all readers - this is a discussion >>>group - you have been confused by the bizarre concepts of "ownership" >>>that Tony has in that regard, Crash.
Again you demonstrate your ignorance of Usenet conventions. While the >>thread as a whole could be said to belong to all of us, the fact is
that the original post (OP) that created this thread is attributed to
you. If you had not written and published (posted) this there would
be no thread. My point was to remind Willy of the OP.
So post a copy of those Usenet conventions relating to nz.general.
In the meanwhile; to get discussion back on track, see this article: >https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulletin/18-07-2024/the-missing-diary-entry-thats-still-dogging-shane-jones
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 546 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 05:12:24 |
| Calls: | 10,387 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 14,061 |
| Messages: | 6,416,797 |