https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayor
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all >sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months >and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has >cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation.
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are >celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting >winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on.
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayor
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all >>sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months >>and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has >>cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation.
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are >>celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting >>winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on.
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not
needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity
generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough >decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National
governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by
the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National >governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the
same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM..
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayor
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all >>>sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball. >>>
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months >>>and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has >>>cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation.
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are >>>celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting >>>winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on.
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not
needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough >>decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National
governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by
the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National >>governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the
same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM..
Gas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without
success,
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments
have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to
cover costs.
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that
the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would
probably reduce prices.
The current government does not appear to have
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will
however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough
to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure
of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any
suggestions.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating
companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the
government do anything?
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayor
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all >>>>sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball. >>>>
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months >>>>and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has >>>>cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation.
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are >>>>celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on.
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not
needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough >>>decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National
governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by
the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National >>>governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the
same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM..
Gas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without
success,
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any >land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to >offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around
Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than
gas. Feel free to correct me.
No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids andand both previous National-led and Labour-led governments
have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to
cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban
offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'.
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that
the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough
electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to
affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will
however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough
to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure
of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>suggestions.
what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation
have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges,
but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political
biases of both the Greens and Labour.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the
government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise
the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own.
That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets
(along with National).
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I
expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayor
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all >>>>>sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball. >>>>>
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months >>>>>and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has >>>>>cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation.
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on.
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough >>>>decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by >>>>the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National >>>>governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the >>>>same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM..
Gas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>success,
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any >>land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to >>offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around
Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than
gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago
that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent
years.
No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments
have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to
cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'.
did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern
Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those
governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it
was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for
auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government
will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that
the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to
affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the
need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the
group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply
issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with
little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial
return
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will
however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough
to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure
of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>suggestions.
what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation
have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges,
but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political
biases of both the Greens and Labour.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in
their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the
current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the
government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise
the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own.
That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets
(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on
either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the
private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I >>expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere
that would not be very expensive . . .
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayor
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all >>>>>>sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball. >>>>>>
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation. >>>>>>
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on.
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough >>>>>decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by >>>>>the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National >>>>>governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the >>>>>same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM..
Gas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>success,
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any >>>land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to >>>offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than >>>gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago
that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent
years.
No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments
have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'.
did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern
Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those
governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it
was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for
auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government
will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that
the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to
affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the
need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial
return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for
commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done.
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will
however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough
to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure
of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>suggestions.
what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation >>>have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges,
but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political
biases of both the Greens and Labour.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in
their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >>Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the
current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise >>>the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own. >>>That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets
(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on
either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the
private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I >>>expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere
that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >Government decides to act.
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayor
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all >>>>>>>sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation. >>>>>>>
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on.
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough >>>>>>decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by >>>>>>the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National >>>>>>governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the >>>>>>same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM..
Gas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>success,
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any >>>>land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to >>>>offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than >>>>gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago
that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>years.
No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments
have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'.
did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those
governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it
was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for
auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that
the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial
return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for
commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done.
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough >>>>>to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure >>>>>of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>suggestions.
what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation >>>>have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in
their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >>>Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the
current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise >>>>the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own. >>>>That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on
either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I >>>>expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere >>>that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Gas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>success,
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough >>>>>>>decisions.https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayor
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation. >>>>>>>>
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on. >>>>>>>
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by >>>>>>>the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National >>>>>>>governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the >>>>>>>same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM.. >>>>>>
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any >>>>>land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to >>>>>offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than >>>>>gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>years.
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments
have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and >>>>did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it >>>>was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that
the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done.
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation >>>>>have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough >>>>>>to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure >>>>>>of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>suggestions.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >>>>Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the
current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise >>>>>the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own. >>>>>That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I >>>>>expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere >>>>that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
No.
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:53:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayorGas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>>success,
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough >>>>>>>>decisions.
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation. >>>>>>>>>
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on. >>>>>>>>
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by >>>>>>>>the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National >>>>>>>>governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the >>>>>>>>same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM.. >>>>>>>
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any >>>>>>land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to >>>>>>offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than >>>>>>gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>>years.
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments
have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and >>>>>did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it >>>>>was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that
the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done.
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>>>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation >>>>>>have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough >>>>>>>to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure >>>>>>>of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>>suggestions.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >>>>>Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the >>>>>current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise >>>>>>the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own. >>>>>>That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I >>>>>>expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere >>>>>that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
No.
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
Fair enough Crash - you are correct, but don't feel bad about not
having any idea as to what could be done - the Government appears to
be with you on that one.
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 17:55:50 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:53:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayorGas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>>>success,
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough >>>>>>>>>decisions.
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation. >>>>>>>>>>
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on. >>>>>>>>>
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by >>>>>>>>>the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National >>>>>>>>>governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the >>>>>>>>>same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM.. >>>>>>>>
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any >>>>>>>land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to >>>>>>>offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than >>>>>>>gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>>>years.
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments
have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and >>>>>>did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it >>>>>>was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>>>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that
the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>>>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>>>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>>>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>>>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done.
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>>>>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation >>>>>>>have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough >>>>>>>>to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure >>>>>>>>of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>>>suggestions.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >>>>>>Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>>>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the >>>>>>current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise >>>>>>>the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own. >>>>>>>That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>>>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I >>>>>>>expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere >>>>>>that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
No.
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
Fair enough Crash - you are correct, but don't feel bad about not
having any idea as to what could be done - the Government appears to
be with you on that one.
You exhibit extraordinary arrogance with worthless conjecture on what
I might or might not feel.
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:42:47 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>The most perplexing thing about you is that you actually believe that the rest of the world does not see through your childish, sarcastic and pointedly abusive posts.
wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 17:55:50 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:53:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayorGas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>>>>success,
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie >>>>>>>>>>>both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the >>>>>>>>>>>ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few >>>>>>>>>>>months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium >>>>>>>>>>>smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation. >>>>>>>>>>>
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby >>>>>>>>>>>plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an >>>>>>>>>>>interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on. >>>>>>>>>>
decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by >>>>>>>>>>the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National
governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the >>>>>>>>>>same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM.. >>>>>>>>>
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any >>>>>>>>land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to >>>>>>>>offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>>>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than >>>>>>>>gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>>>>years.
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments >>>>>>>>>have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and >>>>>>>did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it >>>>>>>was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>>>>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that >>>>>>>>>the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>>>>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>>>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>>>>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>>>>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>>>>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>>>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done.
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>>>>>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>>>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation >>>>>>>>have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>>>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough >>>>>>>>>to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure >>>>>>>>>of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>>>>suggestions.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >>>>>>>Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>>>>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the >>>>>>>current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise >>>>>>>>the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own. >>>>>>>>That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>>>>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I >>>>>>>>expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere >>>>>>>that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>>>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>>>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
No.
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
Fair enough Crash - you are correct, but don't feel bad about not
having any idea as to what could be done - the Government appears to
be with you on that one.
You exhibit extraordinary arrogance with worthless conjecture on what
I might or might not feel.
I asked what other solutions that you envisage which you did not
answer. I believe that our form of government depends on citizens
having ideas and at times attempting to persuade the government to
adopt them, and that governments can get the best results by
considering a range of ideas and investigating / choosing those which
are the best on a range of criteria and after due diligence.
Are you how saying that you do have ideas now on the issue of possible >courses of action to resolve problems with the electricity market?
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:42:47 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:The most perplexing thing about you is that you actually believe that the rest >of the world does not see through your childish, sarcastic and pointedly >abusive posts.
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 17:55:50 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:53:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayorGas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>>>>>success,
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie >>>>>>>>>>>>both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the >>>>>>>>>>>>ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few >>>>>>>>>>>>months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium >>>>>>>>>>>>smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation. >>>>>>>>>>>>
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby >>>>>>>>>>>>plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an >>>>>>>>>>>>interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on. >>>>>>>>>>>
decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by
the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National
governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the >>>>>>>>>>>same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM.. >>>>>>>>>>
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any >>>>>>>>>land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to >>>>>>>>>offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>>>>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than >>>>>>>>>gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>>>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>>>>>years.
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments >>>>>>>>>>have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>>>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>>>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and >>>>>>>>did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>>>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>>>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>>>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it >>>>>>>>was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>>>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>>>>>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that >>>>>>>>>>the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>>>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>>>>>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>>>>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>>>>>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>>>>>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>>>>>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>>>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>>>>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done. >>>>>>>>
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>>>>>>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>>>>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation >>>>>>>>>have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>>>>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough >>>>>>>>>>to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure >>>>>>>>>>of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>>>>>suggestions.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>>>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >>>>>>>>Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>>>>>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the >>>>>>>>current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>>>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise >>>>>>>>>the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own. >>>>>>>>>That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>>>>>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>>>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>>>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I >>>>>>>>>expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere >>>>>>>>that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>>>>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>>>>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
No.
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
Fair enough Crash - you are correct, but don't feel bad about not >>>>having any idea as to what could be done - the Government appears to
be with you on that one.
You exhibit extraordinary arrogance with worthless conjecture on what
I might or might not feel.
I asked what other solutions that you envisage which you did not
answer. I believe that our form of government depends on citizens
having ideas and at times attempting to persuade the government to
adopt them, and that governments can get the best results by
considering a range of ideas and investigating / choosing those which
are the best on a range of criteria and after due diligence.
Are you how saying that you do have ideas now on the issue of possible >>courses of action to resolve problems with the electricity market?
You are the most deluded creature I have ever dealt with. You are most >assuredly sociopathic.
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:27:53 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:42:47 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:The most perplexing thing about you is that you actually believe that the rest
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 17:55:50 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:53:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayorGas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>>>>>>success,
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>>>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie >>>>>>>>>>>>>both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the
ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few
months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium >>>>>>>>>>>>>smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation.
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby >>>>>>>>>>>>>plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an >>>>>>>>>>>>>interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on. >>>>>>>>>>>>
decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by
the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National
governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the
same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM.. >>>>>>>>>>>
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any
land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to
offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>>>>>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than >>>>>>>>>>gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>>>>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>>>>>>years.
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments >>>>>>>>>>>have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>>>>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>>>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>>>>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and >>>>>>>>>did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>>>>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>>>>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>>>>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it >>>>>>>>>was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>>>>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>>>>>>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that >>>>>>>>>>>the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>>>>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>>>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>>>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>>>>>>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>>>>>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>>>>>>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>>>>>>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>>>>>>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>>>>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>>>>>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done. >>>>>>>>>
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>>>>>>>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>>>>>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>>>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation >>>>>>>>>>have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>>>>>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>>>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough >>>>>>>>>>>to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure >>>>>>>>>>>of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>>>>>>suggestions.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>>>>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >>>>>>>>>Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>>>>>>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the >>>>>>>>>current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>>>>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise
the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own. >>>>>>>>>>That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>>>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>>>>>>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>>>>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>>>>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I
expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere >>>>>>>>>that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>>>>>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>>>>>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
No.
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
Fair enough Crash - you are correct, but don't feel bad about not >>>>>having any idea as to what could be done - the Government appears to >>>>>be with you on that one.
You exhibit extraordinary arrogance with worthless conjecture on what
I might or might not feel.
I asked what other solutions that you envisage which you did not
answer. I believe that our form of government depends on citizens
having ideas and at times attempting to persuade the government to
adopt them, and that governments can get the best results by
considering a range of ideas and investigating / choosing those which
are the best on a range of criteria and after due diligence.
Are you how saying that you do have ideas now on the issue of possible >>>courses of action to resolve problems with the electricity market?
of the world does not see through your childish, sarcastic and pointedly >>abusive posts.
You are the most deluded creature I have ever dealt with. You are most >>assuredly sociopathic.
Clearly you have no ideas as to how to ensure that demand can be met
at prices New Zealand homes and businesses can afford, Tony.
Meanwhile, totally unaffected by your abuse, the world does move on -
see here : — >https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/14/arm-twisting-electricity-authority-eases-market-regulation-for-gentailers/
and >https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/13/govt-anxious-over-soaring-electricity-prices-effect-on-residential-prices/
and
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/24/new-renewable-electricity-generation-should-cap-power-prices-advocates-say/
and >https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/02/smelter-sought-assurances-about-46m-carbon-subsidy-before-signing-power-deals/
and >https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350376048/uk-report-offers-insight-new-zealand-offshore-wind-industry
On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 10:46:38 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>You are responding to Crash. But in two posts away from any that Crash posted to. You are a coward and an idiot.
wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:27:53 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:42:47 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:The most perplexing thing about you is that you actually believe that the >>>rest
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 17:55:50 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:53:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash >>>>>>>>>>>><nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayorGas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>>>>>>>success,
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>>>>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the >>>>>>>>>>>>>tough
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>few
months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium >>>>>>>>>>>>>>smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>generation.
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby >>>>>>>>>>>>>>plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed >>>>>>>>>>>>>by
the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the >>>>>>>>>>>>>National
governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and >>>>>>>>>>>>>the
same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM.. >>>>>>>>>>>>
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been >>>>>>>>>>>any
land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved >>>>>>>>>>>to
offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>>>>>>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than
gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>>>>>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>>>>>>>years.
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments >>>>>>>>>>>>have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>>>>>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>>>>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>>>>>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and >>>>>>>>>>did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>>>>>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>>>>>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>>>>>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it >>>>>>>>>>was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>>>>>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>>>>>>>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that >>>>>>>>>>>>the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>>>>>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>>>>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>>>>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>>>>>>>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>>>>>>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>>>>>>>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>>>>>>>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>>>>>>>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>>>>>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>>>>>>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done. >>>>>>>>>>
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>>>>>>>>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>>>>>>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>>>>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>>>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough
to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure
of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>>>>>>>suggestions.
have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>>>>>>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>>>>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>>>>>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the
Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>>>>>>>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the >>>>>>>>>>current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>>>>>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>>>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to >>>>>>>>>>>jeopardise
the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own.
That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>>>>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>>>>>>>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>>>>>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>>>>>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. >>>>>>>>>>>I
expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere
that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>>>>>>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>>>>>>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
No.
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
Fair enough Crash - you are correct, but don't feel bad about not >>>>>>having any idea as to what could be done - the Government appears to >>>>>>be with you on that one.
You exhibit extraordinary arrogance with worthless conjecture on what >>>>>I might or might not feel.
I asked what other solutions that you envisage which you did not >>>>answer. I believe that our form of government depends on citizens >>>>having ideas and at times attempting to persuade the government to >>>>adopt them, and that governments can get the best results by >>>>considering a range of ideas and investigating / choosing those which >>>>are the best on a range of criteria and after due diligence.
Are you how saying that you do have ideas now on the issue of possible >>>>courses of action to resolve problems with the electricity market?
of the world does not see through your childish, sarcastic and pointedly >>>abusive posts.
You are the most deluded creature I have ever dealt with. You are most >>>assuredly sociopathic.
Clearly you have no ideas as to how to ensure that demand can be met
at prices New Zealand homes and businesses can afford, Tony.
Meanwhile, totally unaffected by your abuse, the world does move on -
see here : — >>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/14/arm-twisting-electricity-authority-eases-market-regulation-for-gentailers/
and >>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/13/govt-anxious-over-soaring-electricity-prices-effect-on-residential-prices/
and >>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/24/new-renewable-electricity-generation-should-cap-power-prices-advocates-say/
and >>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/02/smelter-sought-assurances-about-46m-carbon-subsidy-before-signing-power-deals/
and >>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350376048/uk-report-offers-insight-new-zealand-offshore-wind-industry
Crash, I do apologise for referring to Tony instead of you as the
person I was responding to. It was a mistake on my part.
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:27:53 -0000 (UTC), TonyI did not abuse you, You started the abuse and I countered with fact and fair opinion.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:42:47 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:The most perplexing thing about you is that you actually believe that the >>rest
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 17:55:50 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:53:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayorGas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>>>>>>success,
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>>>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the >>>>>>>>>>>>tough
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie >>>>>>>>>>>>>both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off >>>>>>>>>>>>>the
ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>few
months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium >>>>>>>>>>>>>smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation.
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby >>>>>>>>>>>>>plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an >>>>>>>>>>>>>interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on. >>>>>>>>>>>>
decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed >>>>>>>>>>>>by
the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the >>>>>>>>>>>>National
governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the
same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM.. >>>>>>>>>>>
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any
land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to
offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>>>>>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than >>>>>>>>>>gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>>>>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>>>>>>years.
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments >>>>>>>>>>>have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>>>>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>>>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>>>>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and >>>>>>>>>did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>>>>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>>>>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>>>>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it >>>>>>>>>was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>>>>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>>>>>>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that >>>>>>>>>>>the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>>>>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>>>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>>>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>>>>>>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>>>>>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>>>>>>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>>>>>>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>>>>>>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>>>>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>>>>>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done. >>>>>>>>>
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>>>>>>>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>>>>>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>>>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation >>>>>>>>>>have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>>>>>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>>>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough >>>>>>>>>>>to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure >>>>>>>>>>>of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>>>>>>suggestions.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>>>>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >>>>>>>>>Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>>>>>>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the >>>>>>>>>current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>>>>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise
the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own. >>>>>>>>>>That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>>>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>>>>>>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>>>>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>>>>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I
expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere >>>>>>>>>that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>>>>>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>>>>>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
No.
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
Fair enough Crash - you are correct, but don't feel bad about not >>>>>having any idea as to what could be done - the Government appears to >>>>>be with you on that one.
You exhibit extraordinary arrogance with worthless conjecture on what
I might or might not feel.
I asked what other solutions that you envisage which you did not
answer. I believe that our form of government depends on citizens
having ideas and at times attempting to persuade the government to
adopt them, and that governments can get the best results by
considering a range of ideas and investigating / choosing those which
are the best on a range of criteria and after due diligence.
Are you how saying that you do have ideas now on the issue of possible >>>courses of action to resolve problems with the electricity market?
of the world does not see through your childish, sarcastic and pointedly >>abusive posts.
You are the most deluded creature I have ever dealt with. You are most >>assuredly sociopathic.
Clearly you have no ideas as to how to ensure that demand can be met
at prices New Zealand homes and businesses can afford, Tony.
On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 10:46:38 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:27:53 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:42:47 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:The most perplexing thing about you is that you actually believe that the rest
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 17:55:50 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:53:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayorGas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>>>>>>>success,
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>>>>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the
ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few
months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium >>>>>>>>>>>>>>smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation.
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby >>>>>>>>>>>>>>plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by
the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National
governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the
same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM.. >>>>>>>>>>>>
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any
land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to
offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>>>>>>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than
gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>>>>>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>>>>>>>years.
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments >>>>>>>>>>>>have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>>>>>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>>>>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>>>>>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and >>>>>>>>>>did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>>>>>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>>>>>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>>>>>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it >>>>>>>>>>was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>>>>>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>>>>>>>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that >>>>>>>>>>>>the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>>>>>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>>>>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>>>>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>>>>>>>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>>>>>>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>>>>>>>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>>>>>>>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>>>>>>>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>>>>>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>>>>>>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done. >>>>>>>>>>
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>>>>>>>>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>>>>>>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>>>>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>>>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough
to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure
of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>>>>>>>suggestions.
have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>>>>>>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>>>>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>>>>>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the
Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>>>>>>>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the >>>>>>>>>>current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>>>>>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>>>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise
the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own.
That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>>>>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>>>>>>>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>>>>>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>>>>>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I
expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere
that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>>>>>>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>>>>>>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
No.
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
Fair enough Crash - you are correct, but don't feel bad about not >>>>>>having any idea as to what could be done - the Government appears to >>>>>>be with you on that one.
You exhibit extraordinary arrogance with worthless conjecture on what >>>>>I might or might not feel.
I asked what other solutions that you envisage which you did not >>>>answer. I believe that our form of government depends on citizens >>>>having ideas and at times attempting to persuade the government to >>>>adopt them, and that governments can get the best results by >>>>considering a range of ideas and investigating / choosing those which >>>>are the best on a range of criteria and after due diligence.
Are you how saying that you do have ideas now on the issue of possible >>>>courses of action to resolve problems with the electricity market?
of the world does not see through your childish, sarcastic and pointedly >>>abusive posts.
You are the most deluded creature I have ever dealt with. You are most >>>assuredly sociopathic.
Clearly you have no ideas as to how to ensure that demand can be met
at prices New Zealand homes and businesses can afford, Tony.
Meanwhile, totally unaffected by your abuse, the world does move on -
see here : — >>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/14/arm-twisting-electricity-authority-eases-market-regulation-for-gentailers/
and >>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/13/govt-anxious-over-soaring-electricity-prices-effect-on-residential-prices/
and >>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/24/new-renewable-electricity-generation-should-cap-power-prices-advocates-say/
and >>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/02/smelter-sought-assurances-about-46m-carbon-subsidy-before-signing-power-deals/
and >>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350376048/uk-report-offers-insight-new-zealand-offshore-wind-industry
Crash, I do apologise for referring to Tony instead of you as the
person I was responding to. It was a mistake on my part.
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:42:47 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 17:55:50 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:53:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayorGas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>>>>success,
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity >>>>>>>>>>generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation. >>>>>>>>>>>
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on. >>>>>>>>>>
decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by >>>>>>>>>>the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National
governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the >>>>>>>>>>same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM.. >>>>>>>>>
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any >>>>>>>>land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to >>>>>>>>offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around >>>>>>>>Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than >>>>>>>>gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>>>>years.
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments >>>>>>>>>have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to >>>>>>>>>cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and >>>>>>>did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it >>>>>>>was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government >>>>>>>will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that >>>>>>>>>the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would >>>>>>>>>probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the >>>>>>>need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>>>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the >>>>>>>group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply >>>>>>>issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with >>>>>>>little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>>>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done.
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more >>>>>>expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>>>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation >>>>>>>>have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges, >>>>>>>>but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough >>>>>>>>>to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure >>>>>>>>>of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>>>>suggestions.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the >>>>>>>Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very >>>>>>>expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the >>>>>>>current government had to offer.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating >>>>>>>>>companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise >>>>>>>>the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own. >>>>>>>>That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little >>>>>>>difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I >>>>>>>>expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere >>>>>>>that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>>>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>>>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash?
No.
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
Fair enough Crash - you are correct, but don't feel bad about not
having any idea as to what could be done - the Government appears to
be with you on that one.
You exhibit extraordinary arrogance with worthless conjecture on what
I might or might not feel.
I asked what other solutions that you envisage which you did not
answer.
I believe that our form of government depends on citizens
having ideas and at times attempting to persuade the government to
adopt them, and that governments can get the best results by
considering a range of ideas and investigating / choosing those which
are the best on a range of criteria and after due diligence.
Are you how saying that you do have ideas now on the issue of possible >courses of action to resolve problems with the electricity market?
On 2024-08-14, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 10:46:38 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>In my experience of Usenet, it is a good thing to try and discuss the topic >without naming a particular poster. This saves some confusion and >misunderstanding. If one does refer to a poster then it is very good idea to >check as who said what. Sorting out misunderstandings is not always a short >event.
wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:27:53 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 20:42:47 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:The most perplexing thing about you is that you actually believe that the rest
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 17:55:50 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 14:53:19 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 13:37:28 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 07:56:13 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>>>>>wrote:No.
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:01:10 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 20:17:37 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 19:48:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 14:05:35 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On 13 Aug 2024 01:46:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350376711/gas-shortage-proves-its-time-cross-party-energy-strategy-new-plymouth-mayor
Another article giving a rev up to the people in Government, ie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>both/all
sides/parties, for not doing their job and keeping the eyes off the
ball.
The gas supply is so short that Methanex is closing doing for a few
months
and selling its gas to the power generators, and the aluminium >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>smelter has
cut its producing so that the water can go to the power generation.
Genesis is piling coal to 350,000 tonnes at Huntley. (The nearby >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>plants are
celebrating the good times ahead).
With the gas supply reducing month by month it is going to be an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>interesting
winter. Until then all bets are off that the lights will stay on.
A 30-year bi-partisan agreement is just nonsensical and it is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>needed. We have certainly reached a crisis point with electricity
generation and it is up to the government of the day to make the tough
decisions.
This is exactly what has happened in the past, with National >>>>>>>>>>>>>>governments making changes in the late 90s that were never changed by
the Labour Governments that Helen Clark was PM of, no did the National
governments with John Key as PM make any substantial changes and the
same applies to the Labour governments with Jacinda Ardern as PM..
Gas exploration in land has been going on for a few years without >>>>>>>>>>>>>success,
Really? From the limited research I have done there have not been any
land-based searches been done since the 1970s when the search moved to
offshore areas. The on-shore exploration was primarily based around
Kapuni and other small fields when the search was for oil rather than
gas. Feel free to correct me.
I don't have a reference, but there was an item on RNZ some time ago >>>>>>>>>>>that referred to exploration by the gas companies onshore in recent >>>>>>>>>>>years.
did not issue any permits in one round, and then the new Ardern >>>>>>>>>>>Government again got inadequate bids - one or other of those >>>>>>>>>>>governments had also had to deal with an abandoned rig that required >>>>>>>>>>>government money to make safe for shipping (by dismantling it). So it
and both previous National-led and Labour-led governments >>>>>>>>>>>>>have not been able to get sufficient interest in sea exploration to
cover costs.
Perhaps because of PM Ardern's 'captains call' in April 2018 to ban >>>>>>>>>>>>offshore exploration had an effect on that 'insufficient interest'. >>>>>>>>>>>No, that was after the previous government got no acceptable bids and
was only after two succesful rounds that no areas were put up for >>>>>>>>>>>auction the next time. I haven't heard whether the current government
will allow permits to be issued - do you know?
There have been resource consents for wind and solar that >>>>>>>>>>>>>the generating companies are reluctant to proceed with - that would
probably reduce prices.
Are you serious? Wind and Solar combined cannot generate enough >>>>>>>>>>>>electricity at all (let alone reliably enough to be base-load) to >>>>>>>>>>>>affect prices. That is pure fantasy.
Wind and Solar are cheaper than using coal; anything that reduces the
need to fire up Huntly is worthwhile
Wind and Solar is not reliable enough to do this. Huntly, Hydro and >>>>>>>>>>Geothermal generators run constantly.
- but for the generators they
want to be able to use coal every so often to keep charges up for the
group. Those companies that are closing because of electricity supply
issues should be at least using roof tops for local generation - with
little transmission losses it does provide a reasonable commercial >>>>>>>>>>>return
See my comments about Solar above. It simply does not work for >>>>>>>>>>commercial electricity consumption. That is why it is not done. >>>>>>>>>>>
Handouts to the Minister of Finance via dividends are a magnitude more
The current government does not appear to haveAppearances deceive Rich. You should read a bit more widely about >>>>>>>>>>>>what governments that are not of your preferred political orientation
any plans other than allowing more coal to be mined - that will >>>>>>>>>>>>>however not do much to stop prices increasing, and may not be enough
to maintain supply.
The current government is not proposing any changes to the structure
of the industry. Posters on nz.general do not appear to have any >>>>>>>>>>>>>suggestions.
have suggested. I agree that the current government has challenges,
but in looking for solutions they are not blinded by the political >>>>>>>>>>>>biases of both the Greens and Labour.
I doubt that the different political parties are very different in >>>>>>>>>>>their wanting to seek improvements - but changing the structure of the
Bradford "reforms" to disrupt the effective cartel would be very very
expensive - handouts to landlords took the majority of what the >>>>>>>>>>>current government had to offer.
expensive than that, and the current government has removed the >>>>>>>>>>discrimination that Labour implemented against Landlords.
We live in interesting times - but its not all bad - the generating
companies are still making good profits . . . - why should the >>>>>>>>>>>>>government do anything?
Precisely why Labour governments of the past did nothing to jeopardise
the dividends from the gentailer dividends from those they still own.
That and their reluctance to inflation-adjust income tax brackets >>>>>>>>>>>>(along with National).
Exactly - the expense of changing is considerable, so there is little
difference between the main parties - none of the minor parties on >>>>>>>>>>>either side have expressed any interest in buying out some of the >>>>>>>>>>>private shareholders . . .
The Government has indicated concern at current electricity prices. I
expect they will be forced to take action, and soon.
As I said in an earlier post, I have not seen any suggestions anywhere
that would not be very expensive . . .
That's because you perceive that there is just one course of action >>>>>>>>>>available. It is not the only one and we will find this out when the >>>>>>>>>>Government decides to act.
Are you thinking of a government mandated price freeze, Crash? >>>>>>>>
what
are the other solutions that you envisage?
That is for the Government to come up with.
Fair enough Crash - you are correct, but don't feel bad about not >>>>>>>having any idea as to what could be done - the Government appears to >>>>>>>be with you on that one.
You exhibit extraordinary arrogance with worthless conjecture on what >>>>>>I might or might not feel.
I asked what other solutions that you envisage which you did not >>>>>answer. I believe that our form of government depends on citizens >>>>>having ideas and at times attempting to persuade the government to >>>>>adopt them, and that governments can get the best results by >>>>>considering a range of ideas and investigating / choosing those which >>>>>are the best on a range of criteria and after due diligence.
Are you how saying that you do have ideas now on the issue of possible >>>>>courses of action to resolve problems with the electricity market?
of the world does not see through your childish, sarcastic and pointedly >>>>abusive posts.
You are the most deluded creature I have ever dealt with. You are most >>>>assuredly sociopathic.
Clearly you have no ideas as to how to ensure that demand can be met
at prices New Zealand homes and businesses can afford, Tony.
Meanwhile, totally unaffected by your abuse, the world does move on -
see here : ? >>>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/14/arm-twisting-electricity-authority-eases-market-regulation-for-gentailers/
and >>>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/13/govt-anxious-over-soaring-electricity-prices-effect-on-residential-prices/
and >>>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/01/24/new-renewable-electricity-generation-should-cap-power-prices-advocates-say/
and >>>https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/08/02/smelter-sought-assurances-about-46m-carbon-subsidy-before-signing-power-deals/
and >>>https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350376048/uk-report-offers-insight-new-zealand-offshore-wind-industry
Crash, I do apologise for referring to Tony instead of you as the
person I was responding to. It was a mistake on my part.
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