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  • A submission

    From Tony@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 7 19:14:27 2025
    XPost: nz.politics

    To the Treaty Principles Bill https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/06/submission-on-the-treaty-principles-bill-2/
    Very well put, I hope that National and ACT see sense and change their minds.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gordon@21:1/5 to Tony on Tue Jan 7 21:56:14 2025
    On 2025-01-07, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
    To the Treaty Principles Bill https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/06/submission-on-the-treaty-principles-bill-2/
    Very well put, I hope that National and ACT see sense and change their minds.

    One of the best speeches I have read for a very long time.

    He is spot on about owing your situation. It has been said before that the Maori's are over represented in prisions and why is this. They need to
    accept this fact,and own it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to lizandtony@orcon.net.nz on Wed Jan 8 15:47:06 2025
    On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 19:14:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    To the Treaty Principles Bill >https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/06/submission-on-the-treaty-principles-bill-2/
    Very well put, I hope that National and ACT see sense and change their minds.

    It is interesting that a version of the Treaty was prepared the day
    after the initial signing - in English, at the request of the
    representative of the United States, as he wanted to send a copy to
    the USA government. that copy is held in a library in the USA - it may
    be at a university, and it confirms that sovereignty was given -
    sometimes described as chieftainship, it is certainly beyond merely citizenship. It is an internationally agreed convention that treaties
    with native peoples that were signed in the native language should be interpreted in accordance with that version, and that has been
    accepted by successive New Zealand governments, particularly in recent
    years.

    The whole reason why the settlement process was required arises from
    such misunderstandings - even the famous Maori Sir Apirana Ngata did
    not recognise the impact of that issue - he was educated in English
    speaking schools, and qualified at an English speaking university,
    where Maori perspectives were very rare.

    It is sad that so many appear to be confused - including David Seymour
    - who has had access to advice from public servants and a large group
    of distinguished legal people that are telling him that his proposed
    bill is effectively an abrogation of an important contract between the
    Crown and Maori.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Wed Jan 8 05:38:31 2025
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 19:14:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
    <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    To the Treaty Principles Bill >>https://waikanaewatch.org/2025/01/06/submission-on-the-treaty-principles-bill-2/
    Very well put, I hope that National and ACT see sense and change their minds.

    It is interesting that a version of the Treaty was prepared the day
    after the initial signing - in English, at the request of the
    representative of the United States, as he wanted to send a copy to
    the USA government. that copy is held in a library in the USA - it may
    be at a university, and it confirms that sovereignty was given -
    sometimes described as chieftainship, it is certainly beyond merely >citizenship. It is an internationally agreed convention that treaties
    with native peoples that were signed in the native language should be >interpreted in accordance with that version, and that has been
    accepted by successive New Zealand governments, particularly in recent
    years.

    The whole reason why the settlement process was required arises from
    such misunderstandings - even the famous Maori Sir Apirana Ngata did
    not recognise the impact of that issue - he was educated in English
    speaking schools, and qualified at an English speaking university,
    where Maori perspectives were very rare.

    It is sad that so many appear to be confused - including David Seymour
    - who has had access to advice from public servants and a large group
    of distinguished legal people that are telling him that his proposed
    bill is effectively an abrogation of an important contract between the
    Crown and Maori.
    You knoiw that is incorrect, you know it so well that you are lying.
    Seymour wants a discussion by the people of this country. That is all.
    He has never sugggested that the treaty should be altered or removed.
    There is no abrogation, no intent to change any contracts .
    You are lying for politcal gain and I would not be surprised if there is some plan for monetary gain in your lies.
    You are a disgrace because you are opposing a democratic move for nefarious and immoral reasons.
    The bill is all about having a discussion about the treaty,, nothing else whatsoever.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)