Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many
New Zealanders very well :
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

No, it's political, entitled and greedy rhetoric.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many
New Zealanders very well :
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 23:51:41 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many
New Zealanders very well :
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

No, it's political, entitled and greedy rhetoric.

Absolutely Tony - it well captures the deplorable attitudes of David
Seymour, and his unwillingness - or more likely inability - to give
examples of the privilege he claims exists.

The opposition to the Atlas Network policies is increasing - I saw a
report recently that Seymour may follow John Key in saying his tank is
empty, but I suspect that was just wishful thinking - unlike Key
Seymour is probably unemployable if he left politics, and he is not
yet as personally sorted to use Luxon's term to want to give up the
baubles - voting him out is the answer, and even Epsom electorate may
have had enough of him . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 23:51:41 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many
New Zealanders very well :
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

No, it's political, entitled and greedy rhetoric.

Sarcastic abuse gone.
Off topic gone.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 03:09:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 23:51:41 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>New Zealanders very well :
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

No, it's political, entitled and greedy rhetoric.

Tony gone . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many
New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 03:09:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rich gone

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 06:09:56 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 03:09:20 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rich gone

No ideas of your own, Tony?

Try looking at this then:
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many
New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is
from the Party Vote, and for that there is no difference between any
voters - all readers of nz.general that are entitled to vote could
vote for the Maori Party should they wish. Yes Maori can enrol in a
Maori electorate, and yes that may affect the vote in the non-maori
electorate to which they are also entitled. It is not much of an
advantage for affecting the overall composition of parliament,
however. Perhaps it is not surprising that Seymour has not mentioned
it . . . .

The equivalent opportunity for non-Maori may well be cosy arrangements
such as that between ACT and National whereby an electorate that was
always seen as National-blue has been "gifted" to Seymour by having a lame-duck candidate for National suggesting to voters that they vote
ACT for the seat and vote National for the party vote.

It is perhaps however ironic that the only item that has been able to
be identified is also not talked about by Seymour - the collective
wisdom of nz.general appears to have not found an issue that justifies
the claims that Seymour has been making of Maori privilege . . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 07:02:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Are you trying to prove that you have nothing of any value to say,
Tony, or that you are incapable to keeping to the point?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 07:02:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rich posted a link and comments. I responed. He then became abusive.
Standard practice for him.
And now he is bleating like a lamb - who would have thought? Poor wee diddums.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-01-15, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 19:35:59 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 07:02:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rich posted a link and comments. I responed. He then became abusive. >>Standard practice for him.
And now he is bleating like a lamb - who would have thought? Poor wee diddums.

To get back to the point:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many
New Zealanders very well :
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Good, then we can all move on to the next topic.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 19:35:59 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 07:02:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rich posted a link and comments. I responed. He then became abusive.
Standard practice for him.
And now he is bleating like a lamb - who would have thought? Poor wee diddums.

To get back to the point:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many
New Zealanders very well :
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 19:35:59 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 07:02:27 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rich posted a link and comments. I responed. He then became abusive. >>Standard practice for him.
And now he is bleating like a lamb - who would have thought? Poor wee diddums.

To get back to the point:

The point is that you became abusive immediatly after I posted an opinion. There is no other point now - too late boyo!
Do the right thing in all posts, not just when you have lost ignominiously.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many
New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is
from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is
from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

Are you catching the Tony delete affliction, Bill?

The answer to your question is in my response that was deleted - see
below:
_______________________
"The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is
from the Party Vote, and for that there is no difference between any
voters - all readers of nz.general that are entitled to vote could
vote for the Maori Party should they wish. Yes Maori can enrol in a
Maori electorate, and yes that may affect the vote in the non-maori
electorate to which they are also entitled. It is not much of an
advantage for affecting the overall composition of parliament,
however. Perhaps it is not surprising that Seymour has not mentioned
it . . . .

The equivalent opportunity for non-Maori may well be cosy arrangements
such as that between ACT and National whereby an electorate that was
always seen as National-blue has been "gifted" to Seymour by having a lame-duck candidate for National suggesting to voters that they vote
ACT for the seat and vote National for the party vote.

It is perhaps however ironic that the only item that has been able to
be identified is also not talked about by Seymour - the collective
wisdom of nz.general appears to have not found an issue that justifies
the claims that Seymour has been making of Maori privilege . . . " _______________________

It is arguably less significant than the ability of landlords with
properties in more than one local authority to vote in each of those
local body elections, even when they are fully charging the cost of
rates to the tenants . . .

But well done to you Bill for identifying a small area where there is
a very small greater choice of representation - is Seymour proposing
that the Maori seats be eliminated?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 09:20:36 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is
from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

Yes Maori can enrol in a Maori electorate,

Just a simple yes would have sufficed. All the extra embellishment was unnecessary.

So Maori (or more accurately part-Maori) have a greater choice of representation.

That answers the very first question asked by the protagonist in the
video.

No further questions.

Bill.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:20 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 09:20:36 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is >>>>from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

They get a choice of electorate, but no more impact than anyone else
on who gets a seat in Parliament.

Yes or no?

Bill.

Yes Maori can enrol in a Maori electorate,

Just a simple yes would have sufficed. All the extra embellishment was >unnecessary.

So Maori (or more accurately part-Maori) have a greater choice of >representation.

Why the embellishment of part-Maori? - part or full Maori are treated
in exactly the same way at every step - they have a choice as to how
they describe themselves. Try sticking to the question, Bill

That answers the very first question asked by the protagonist in the
video.

Protagonist? Why call the person giving an opinion a protagonist?

The first question was "What is it that Maori get, that Pakeha do
not?"

No further questions.

Yes, there was - you have identified a very small technical difference
which most would not see as an advantage - it still only gives one
vote . . .

So to eliminate that "advantage", is Seymour proposing that the Maori
seats be eliminated? Do keep up, Bill . . .

Bill.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:20 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 09:20:36 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is >>>>from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

Yes Maori can enrol in a Maori electorate,

Just a simple yes would have sufficed. All the extra embellishment was >unnecessary.

So Maori (or more accurately part-Maori) have a greater choice of >representation.

That answers the very first question asked by the protagonist in the
video.

No further questions.

Bill.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 19:29:20 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 09:20:36 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is >>>>>from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

They get a choice of electorate, but no more impact than anyone else
on who gets a seat in Parliament.

Yes or no?

Bill.

Yes Maori can enrol in a Maori electorate,

Just a simple yes would have sufficed. All the extra embellishment was >>unnecessary.

So Maori (or more accurately part-Maori) have a greater choice of >>representation.

Why the embellishment of part-Maori? - part or full Maori are treated
in exactly the same way at every step - they have a choice as to how
they describe themselves. Try sticking to the question, Bill

That answers the very first question asked by the protagonist in the
video.

Protagonist? Why call the person giving an opinion a protagonist?

The first question was "What is it that Maori get, that Pakeha do
not?"

No further questions.

Yes, there was - you have identified a very small technical difference
which most would not see as an advantage - it still only gives one
vote . . .

So to eliminate that "advantage", is Seymour proposing that the Maori
seats be eliminated? Do keep up, Bill . . .

Bill.

There he is - the Richbot of old, being abusive when he loses an argument, It is a sickness.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is
from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

No. Maori enrolled on the general roll get to vote in the general
electorate in which they reside. Maori on the Maori Roll get to vote
in the Maori electorate in which they reside. On either roll the
party vote options are the same.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:37:41 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is
from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

No. Maori enrolled on the general roll get to vote in the general
electorate in which they reside. Maori on the Maori Roll get to vote
in the Maori electorate in which they reside. On either roll the
party vote options are the same.

Some see that as an advantage, others don't. Either way, it makes
little difference to election results, and less under MMP that it used
to under First Past the Post.

Some see voters in Epsom as having an advantage of getting "two for
one" - by electing an ACT MP for the seat but also effectively
electing another list MP for National by the high party vote for that candidate. That is less important than when ACT was struggling to
elect one MP, and it is possible that voters in most other electorates
see it as a penalty for the rest of New Zealand . . .

There is a similar 'advantage" for New Zealanders voting from
overseas. Some may have been registered in an electorate while at
university for one election, but on going overseas may decide to stay
in that electorate, or to move to another electorate where their
parents live, that being their recorded "address" for NZ election
purposes. Again that matters less under MMP than it did under FPP.

So overall this is a trivial issue - and clearly not a good enough
reason for Seymour to be pushing divisive legislation through that
will further disadvantage Maori - the video speaker is correct, and
Seymour is only concerned with further enriching the wealthy at the
expense of those less well off . . .

Look again:
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:37:41 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is >>>>from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

No. Maori enrolled on the general roll get to vote in the general >>electorate in which they reside. Maori on the Maori Roll get to vote
in the Maori electorate in which they reside. On either roll the
party vote options are the same.

Some see that as an advantage, others don't. Either way, it makes
little difference to election results, and less under MMP that it used
to under First Past the Post.

Some see voters in Epsom as having an advantage of getting "two for
one" - by electing an ACT MP for the seat but also effectively
electing another list MP for National by the high party vote for that >candidate. That is less important than when ACT was struggling to
elect one MP, and it is possible that voters in most other electorates
see it as a penalty for the rest of New Zealand . . .

There is a similar 'advantage" for New Zealanders voting from
overseas. Some may have been registered in an electorate while at
university for one election, but on going overseas may decide to stay
in that electorate, or to move to another electorate where their
parents live, that being their recorded "address" for NZ election
purposes. Again that matters less under MMP than it did under FPP.

So overall this is a trivial issue - and clearly not a good enough
reason for Seymour to be pushing divisive legislation

The legislation is the opposite of divisive, and you know that to be correct. >through that

will further disadvantage Maori

No it will not. It will result in more democracy.

- the video speaker is correct

No he is driven by the hope of poltical gain. Perhaps even greed.

, and
Seymour is only concerned with further enriching the wealthy at the
expense of those less well off . . .

Rubbish.

Look again:
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-01-17, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:37:41 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is >>>>from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

No. Maori enrolled on the general roll get to vote in the general >>electorate in which they reside. Maori on the Maori Roll get to vote
in the Maori electorate in which they reside. On either roll the
party vote options are the same.

Then why bother to have a Maori roll if it makes no difference?

History and the fact that no Government has been able do do anything but
kick it down the road and lock it in to being kicked down that road.

From wikipedia

"The Māori electorates were introduced in 1867 under the Maori Representation Act.[5] They were created in order to give Māori a more direct say in parliament. The first Māori elections were held in the following year during the term of the 4th New Zealand Parliament. The electorates were intended as
a temporary measure lasting five years but were extended in 1872 and made permanent in 1876."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maori_electorates

Note also that the aim of the seats was to give the Maori a more direct say
in parliament. This would suggest that the Maori seats do give a higher representation to the Maori via the Maori seats. Reason the non white
votters can not get on the Maori roll.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:37:41 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is
from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

No. Maori enrolled on the general roll get to vote in the general
electorate in which they reside. Maori on the Maori Roll get to vote
in the Maori electorate in which they reside. On either roll the
party vote options are the same.

Then why bother to have a Maori roll if it makes no difference?

Bill.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-01-17, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:37:41 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is >>>>from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

No. Maori enrolled on the general roll get to vote in the general >>electorate in which they reside. Maori on the Maori Roll get to vote
in the Maori electorate in which they reside. On either roll the
party vote options are the same.

Some see that as an advantage, others don't. Either way, it makes
little difference to election results, and less under MMP that it used
to under First Past the Post.

Some see voters in Epsom as having an advantage of getting "two for
one" - by electing an ACT MP for the seat but also effectively
electing another list MP for National by the high party vote for that candidate.

This applies in all electoral seats. People can, and do, and are getting
used to "splitting" their votes.

That is less important than when ACT was struggling to
elect one MP, and it is possible that voters in most other electorates
see it as a penalty for the rest of New Zealand . . .

There is a similar 'advantage" for New Zealanders voting from
overseas. Some may have been registered in an electorate while at
university for one election, but on going overseas may decide to stay
in that electorate, or to move to another electorate where their
parents live, that being their recorded "address" for NZ election
purposes. Again that matters less under MMP than it did under FPP.

So overall this is a trivial issue - and clearly not a good enough
reason for Seymour to be pushing divisive legislation through that
will further disadvantage Maori - the video speaker is correct, and
Seymour is only concerned with further enriching the wealthy at the
expense of those less well off . . .

Look again:
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 17 Jan 2025 07:20:12 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

On 2025-01-17, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:37:41 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is >>>>>from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

No. Maori enrolled on the general roll get to vote in the general >>>electorate in which they reside. Maori on the Maori Roll get to vote
in the Maori electorate in which they reside. On either roll the
party vote options are the same.

Some see that as an advantage, others don't. Either way, it makes
little difference to election results, and less under MMP that it used
to under First Past the Post.

Some see voters in Epsom as having an advantage of getting "two for
one" - by electing an ACT MP for the seat but also effectively
electing another list MP for National by the high party vote for that
candidate.

This applies in all electoral seats. People can, and do, and are getting
used to "splitting" their votes.

Correct. The same goes for those who vote for a Green candidate in an electorate and party-vote for Labour. I concede that Labour stood a
candidate in every electorate though.

That is less important than when ACT was struggling to
elect one MP, and it is possible that voters in most other electorates
see it as a penalty for the rest of New Zealand . . .

There is a similar 'advantage" for New Zealanders voting from
overseas. Some may have been registered in an electorate while at
university for one election, but on going overseas may decide to stay
in that electorate, or to move to another electorate where their
parents live, that being their recorded "address" for NZ election
purposes. Again that matters less under MMP than it did under FPP.

So overall this is a trivial issue - and clearly not a good enough
reason for Seymour to be pushing divisive legislation through that
will further disadvantage Maori - the video speaker is correct, and
Seymour is only concerned with further enriching the wealthy at the
expense of those less well off . . .

Look again:
https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 17 Jan 2025 07:13:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

On 2025-01-17, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:37:41 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 05:40:25 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 21:04:38 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 18:01:15 +1300, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:20:09 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:

I don't know David Stewart, but this post expresses the views of many >>>>>>>New Zealanders very well :

What percentage of New Zealanders?

https://fb.watch/x5jrOmDisT/

Question: What is it that Maori get that Pakeha don't?

Answer: A greater choice of representation.

Bill.

The main determinant of how many seats each political party gets is >>>>>from the Party Vote etc.

Do Maori get a greater choice of representation?

Yes or no?

Bill.

No. Maori enrolled on the general roll get to vote in the general >>>electorate in which they reside. Maori on the Maori Roll get to vote
in the Maori electorate in which they reside. On either roll the
party vote options are the same.

Then why bother to have a Maori roll if it makes no difference?

History and the fact that no Government has been able do do anything but
kick it down the road and lock it in to being kicked down that road.

From wikipedia

"The M?ori electorates were introduced in 1867 under the Maori Representation >Act.[5] They were created in order to give M?ori a more direct say in >parliament. The first M?ori elections were held in the following year during >the term of the 4th New Zealand Parliament. The electorates were intended as >a temporary measure lasting five years but were extended in 1872 and made >permanent in 1876."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maori_electorates

Note also that the aim of the seats was to give the Maori a more direct say >in parliament. This would suggest that the Maori seats do give a higher >representation to the Maori via the Maori seats. Reason the non white
votters can not get on the Maori roll.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/voting-rights

Interesting that the Maori seats were introduced 27 years after the
signing of the Treaty of Waitangi, in an era when only male property
owners and registered male miners had the right to vote. Maori men
largely did not have the right to vote because Maori land was
considered as communally owned. When the Maori seats were created in
1867 all Maori men over 21 were given the right to vote in those
seats.

I can now understand that with the advent of MMP the recommendation
was to eliminate the Maori seats, as the circumstances of separation
of Maori and non-Maori when Parliament was started had changed
significantly with Maori integrating into European society to a point
where there are no remnants of Maori-style village life.

Predictably though the seats were retained and no future Government
will ever take the rational steps to abolition because the political
strife that would follow is not worth it.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)