This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years old >and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history.Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New Zealand, and earned.
There are hints of the historical facts.
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New Zealand, >and earned.
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years old >>and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history.
There are hints of the historical facts.
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 05:34:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New Zealand, >>and earned.
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years old >>>and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history.
There are hints of the historical facts.
Looking back on the way the pandemic was managed I can understand that >mistakes were made based on the information at hand at the time.
However no politician, including Ardern, deserves hatred. That is
irrational and the resort of those who cannot accept what was done in
a rational way.
We can learn from this. The message that seems obvious to me is that
COVID19 was a threat that never had the mortality of previous
pandemics such as influenza (1918) and 'black death' etc. of earlier
times. In early 2020 the Government should have assessed the risk we
faced against known mortality rates in countries with widespread
infections. Instead we assumed mortality rates would be at the same
level as historical pandemics that happened over a century ago.
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:15:54 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>That is politically driven supposition. not science.
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 05:34:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New >>>Zealand,
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years old >>>>and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history. >>>>
There are hints of the historical facts.
and earned.
Looking back on the way the pandemic was managed I can understand that >>mistakes were made based on the information at hand at the time.
However no politician, including Ardern, deserves hatred. That is >>irrational and the resort of those who cannot accept what was done in
a rational way.
We can learn from this. The message that seems obvious to me is that >>COVID19 was a threat that never had the mortality of previous
pandemics such as influenza (1918) and 'black death' etc. of earlier
times. In early 2020 the Government should have assessed the risk we
faced against known mortality rates in countries with widespread >>infections. Instead we assumed mortality rates would be at the same
level as historical pandemics that happened over a century ago.
No I don't think we did. The 1918 influenza epidemic for example was
so lethal because we knew nothing about it - just as in the middle
ages humans were not aware that the infection was carried by rats. For
this pandemic we had mortality experience in China and other countries
well before it hit our shores - we knew it was a virus, and knew about
some characteristics. We had the advantage of a few days to lock down >international travel, and then a few weeks to watch overseas
experience. So our mortality was not just less than previous
pandemics, but also much lower than other countries, and decisions
were able to be made on a much more informed basis than the past
threats mentioned above. Had we acted in a similar way to the USA we
would have had around 22,000 more deaths, and not much difference in
economic effects than we actually had - international trade largely
stopped anyway without our discouraging it - as it was some of the
outbreaks did come from ship personnel . . .
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:World Health organisation - using mortality statistics - simple
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:15:54 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:That is politically driven supposition. not science.
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 05:34:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New >>>>Zealand,
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years old
and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history. >>>>>
There are hints of the historical facts.
and earned.
Looking back on the way the pandemic was managed I can understand that >>>mistakes were made based on the information at hand at the time.
However no politician, including Ardern, deserves hatred. That is >>>irrational and the resort of those who cannot accept what was done in
a rational way.
We can learn from this. The message that seems obvious to me is that >>>COVID19 was a threat that never had the mortality of previous
pandemics such as influenza (1918) and 'black death' etc. of earlier >>>times. In early 2020 the Government should have assessed the risk we >>>faced against known mortality rates in countries with widespread >>>infections. Instead we assumed mortality rates would be at the same >>>level as historical pandemics that happened over a century ago.
No I don't think we did. The 1918 influenza epidemic for example was
so lethal because we knew nothing about it - just as in the middle
ages humans were not aware that the infection was carried by rats. For
this pandemic we had mortality experience in China and other countries
well before it hit our shores - we knew it was a virus, and knew about
some characteristics. We had the advantage of a few days to lock down >>international travel, and then a few weeks to watch overseas
experience. So our mortality was not just less than previous
pandemics, but also much lower than other countries, and decisions
were able to be made on a much more informed basis than the past
threats mentioned above. Had we acted in a similar way to the USA we
would have had around 22,000 more deaths, and not much difference in >>economic effects than we actually had - international trade largely
stopped anyway without our discouraging it - as it was some of the >>outbreaks did come from ship personnel . . .
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 19:20:07 -0000 (UTC), TonyAbuse gone.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:World Health organisation - using mortality statistics - simple
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:15:54 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:That is politically driven supposition. not science.
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 05:34:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New >>>>>Zealand,
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years >>>>>>old
and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history. >>>>>>
There are hints of the historical facts.
and earned.
Looking back on the way the pandemic was managed I can understand that >>>>mistakes were made based on the information at hand at the time. >>>>However no politician, including Ardern, deserves hatred. That is >>>>irrational and the resort of those who cannot accept what was done in
a rational way.
We can learn from this. The message that seems obvious to me is that >>>>COVID19 was a threat that never had the mortality of previous
pandemics such as influenza (1918) and 'black death' etc. of earlier >>>>times. In early 2020 the Government should have assessed the risk we >>>>faced against known mortality rates in countries with widespread >>>>infections. Instead we assumed mortality rates would be at the same >>>>level as historical pandemics that happened over a century ago.
No I don't think we did. The 1918 influenza epidemic for example was
so lethal because we knew nothing about it - just as in the middle
ages humans were not aware that the infection was carried by rats. For >>>this pandemic we had mortality experience in China and other countries >>>well before it hit our shores - we knew it was a virus, and knew about >>>some characteristics. We had the advantage of a few days to lock down >>>international travel, and then a few weeks to watch overseas
experience. So our mortality was not just less than previous
pandemics, but also much lower than other countries, and decisions
were able to be made on a much more informed basis than the past
threats mentioned above. Had we acted in a similar way to the USA we >>>would have had around 22,000 more deaths, and not much difference in >>>economic effects than we actually had - international trade largely >>>stopped anyway without our discouraging it - as it was some of the >>>outbreaks did come from ship personnel . . .
mathematics, Tony. You have been told this many many times
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:15:54 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 05:34:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New Zealand,
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years old >>>>and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history. >>>>
There are hints of the historical facts.
and earned.
Looking back on the way the pandemic was managed I can understand that >>mistakes were made based on the information at hand at the time.
However no politician, including Ardern, deserves hatred. That is >>irrational and the resort of those who cannot accept what was done in
a rational way.
We can learn from this. The message that seems obvious to me is that >>COVID19 was a threat that never had the mortality of previous
pandemics such as influenza (1918) and 'black death' etc. of earlier
times. In early 2020 the Government should have assessed the risk we
faced against known mortality rates in countries with widespread >>infections. Instead we assumed mortality rates would be at the same
level as historical pandemics that happened over a century ago.
No I don't think we did. The 1918 influenza epidemic for example was
so lethal because we knew nothing about it - just as in the middle
ages humans were not aware that the infection was carried by rats.
For
this pandemic we had mortality experience in China and other countries
well before it hit our shores - we knew it was a virus, and knew about
some characteristics. We had the advantage of a few days to lock down >international travel, and then a few weeks to watch overseas
experience.
So our mortality was not just less than previous
pandemics, but also much lower than other countries, and decisions
were able to be made on a much more informed basis than the past
threats mentioned above.
Had we acted in a similar way to the USA we
would have had around 22,000 more deaths, and not much difference in
economic effects than we actually had - international trade largely
stopped anyway without our discouraging it - as it was some of the
outbreaks did come from ship personnel . . .
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 22:15:35 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>In those early weeks the level of mortality was horrific - they were
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:15:54 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 05:34:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New Zealand,
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years old
and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history. >>>>>
There are hints of the historical facts.
and earned.
Looking back on the way the pandemic was managed I can understand that >>>mistakes were made based on the information at hand at the time.
However no politician, including Ardern, deserves hatred. That is >>>irrational and the resort of those who cannot accept what was done in
a rational way.
We can learn from this. The message that seems obvious to me is that >>>COVID19 was a threat that never had the mortality of previous
pandemics such as influenza (1918) and 'black death' etc. of earlier >>>times. In early 2020 the Government should have assessed the risk we >>>faced against known mortality rates in countries with widespread >>>infections. Instead we assumed mortality rates would be at the same >>>level as historical pandemics that happened over a century ago.
No I don't think we did. The 1918 influenza epidemic for example was
so lethal because we knew nothing about it - just as in the middle
ages humans were not aware that the infection was carried by rats.
When COVID19 first arrived in NZ (December 2019 IIRC) going through to
the first lockdown in March 2020 we were equally ignorant of the
disease's mortality. We were aware that it was highly contagious and
this is what drove the use of lockdowns, thinking that we must take
the same draconian lockdown actions as a precaution when there was no >reliable data on mortality yet.
We compared ourselves with countries like Australia (and saw theFor
this pandemic we had mortality experience in China and other countries
well before it hit our shores - we knew it was a virus, and knew about
some characteristics. We had the advantage of a few days to lock down >>international travel, and then a few weeks to watch overseas
experience.
Initially (for most of 2020 IIRC) information on COVID19 in China (and
some other countries governed by totalitarian governments) was highly
suspect or simply not forthcoming.
So our mortality was not just less than previous
pandemics, but also much lower than other countries, and decisions
were able to be made on a much more informed basis than the past
threats mentioned above.
Had we acted in a similar way to the USA we
would have had around 22,000 more deaths, and not much difference in >>economic effects than we actually had - international trade largely
stopped anyway without our discouraging it - as it was some of the >>outbreaks did come from ship personnel . . .
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 19:20:07 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:World Health organisation - using mortality statistics - simple
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:15:54 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:That is politically driven supposition. not science.
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 05:34:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New >>>>Zealand,
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years old
and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history. >>>>>
There are hints of the historical facts.
and earned.
Looking back on the way the pandemic was managed I can understand that >>>mistakes were made based on the information at hand at the time. >>>However no politician, including Ardern, deserves hatred. That is >>>irrational and the resort of those who cannot accept what was done in
a rational way.
We can learn from this. The message that seems obvious to me is that >>>COVID19 was a threat that never had the mortality of previous
pandemics such as influenza (1918) and 'black death' etc. of earlier >>>times. In early 2020 the Government should have assessed the risk we >>>faced against known mortality rates in countries with widespread >>>infections. Instead we assumed mortality rates would be at the same >>>level as historical pandemics that happened over a century ago.
No I don't think we did. The 1918 influenza epidemic for example was
so lethal because we knew nothing about it - just as in the middle
ages humans were not aware that the infection was carried by rats. For >>this pandemic we had mortality experience in China and other countries >>well before it hit our shores - we knew it was a virus, and knew about >>some characteristics. We had the advantage of a few days to lock down >>international travel, and then a few weeks to watch overseas
experience. So our mortality was not just less than previous
pandemics, but also much lower than other countries, and decisions
were able to be made on a much more informed basis than the past
threats mentioned above. Had we acted in a similar way to the USA we >>would have had around 22,000 more deaths, and not much difference in >>economic effects than we actually had - international trade largely >>stopped anyway without our discouraging it - as it was some of the >>outbreaks did come from ship personnel . . .
mathematics, Tony. You have been told this many many times, but then
you hate facing reality . . .
In article <if1lpjd054936maqf01s6d2vj8n5gnaet5@4ax.com>, Rich80105 >@hotmail.com says...David is another person who is so fixated on politics that rational debate is impossible. Clearly he hates to have his ideas tested - so typical of those from that political extreme. No loss.
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 19:20:07 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:World Health organisation - using mortality statistics - simple
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:15:54 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 05:34:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
That is politically driven supposition. not science.Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle Newhttps://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years >> >>>>>old
and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history.
There are hints of the historical facts.
Zealand,
and earned.
Looking back on the way the pandemic was managed I can understand that
mistakes were made based on the information at hand at the time.
However no politician, including Ardern, deserves hatred. That is
irrational and the resort of those who cannot accept what was done in
a rational way.
We can learn from this. The message that seems obvious to me is that
COVID19 was a threat that never had the mortality of previous
pandemics such as influenza (1918) and 'black death' etc. of earlier
times. In early 2020 the Government should have assessed the risk we
faced against known mortality rates in countries with widespread
infections. Instead we assumed mortality rates would be at the same
level as historical pandemics that happened over a century ago.
No I don't think we did. The 1918 influenza epidemic for example was
so lethal because we knew nothing about it - just as in the middle
ages humans were not aware that the infection was carried by rats. For
this pandemic we had mortality experience in China and other countries
well before it hit our shores - we knew it was a virus, and knew about
some characteristics. We had the advantage of a few days to lock down
international travel, and then a few weeks to watch overseas
experience. So our mortality was not just less than previous
pandemics, but also much lower than other countries, and decisions
were able to be made on a much more informed basis than the past
threats mentioned above. Had we acted in a similar way to the USA we
would have had around 22,000 more deaths, and not much difference in
economic effects than we actually had - international trade largely
stopped anyway without our discouraging it - as it was some of the
outbreaks did come from ship personnel . . .
mathematics, Tony. You have been told this many many times, but then
you hate facing reality . . .
Just add him to your bozo bin like I have. If people would just stop
replying to his messages so frequently, then I wont have to figure out a
way to filter out all messages that are in reply too!
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <if1lpjd054936maqf01s6d2vj8n5gnaet5@4ax.com>, Rich80105 >>@hotmail.com says...David is another person who is so fixated on politics that rational debate is >impossible. Clearly he hates to have his ideas tested - so typical of those >from that political extreme. No loss.
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 19:20:07 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:World Health organisation - using mortality statistics - simple
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:15:54 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 05:34:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
That is politically driven supposition. not science.Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New >>> >>>>Zealand,https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 years
old
and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent history.
There are hints of the historical facts.
and earned.
Looking back on the way the pandemic was managed I can understand that >>> >>>mistakes were made based on the information at hand at the time.
However no politician, including Ardern, deserves hatred. That is
irrational and the resort of those who cannot accept what was done in >>> >>>a rational way.
We can learn from this. The message that seems obvious to me is that >>> >>>COVID19 was a threat that never had the mortality of previous
pandemics such as influenza (1918) and 'black death' etc. of earlier
times. In early 2020 the Government should have assessed the risk we >>> >>>faced against known mortality rates in countries with widespread
infections. Instead we assumed mortality rates would be at the same
level as historical pandemics that happened over a century ago.
No I don't think we did. The 1918 influenza epidemic for example was
so lethal because we knew nothing about it - just as in the middle
ages humans were not aware that the infection was carried by rats. For >>> >>this pandemic we had mortality experience in China and other countries >>> >>well before it hit our shores - we knew it was a virus, and knew about >>> >>some characteristics. We had the advantage of a few days to lock down
international travel, and then a few weeks to watch overseas
experience. So our mortality was not just less than previous
pandemics, but also much lower than other countries, and decisions
were able to be made on a much more informed basis than the past
threats mentioned above. Had we acted in a similar way to the USA we
would have had around 22,000 more deaths, and not much difference in
economic effects than we actually had - international trade largely
stopped anyway without our discouraging it - as it was some of the
outbreaks did come from ship personnel . . .
mathematics, Tony. You have been told this many many times, but then
you hate facing reality . . .
Just add him to your bozo bin like I have. If people would just stop >>replying to his messages so frequently, then I wont have to figure out a >>way to filter out all messages that are in reply too!
On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 20:57:38 -0000 (UTC), TonyIf you want to start a new thread please do so, that is nothing to do with this thread.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
David Goodwin <david+usenet@zx.net.nz> wrote:
In article <if1lpjd054936maqf01s6d2vj8n5gnaet5@4ax.com>, Rich80105 >>>@hotmail.com says...David is another person who is so fixated on politics that rational debate is >>impossible. Clearly he hates to have his ideas tested - so typical of those >>from that political extreme. No loss.
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 19:20:07 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 20:15:54 +1300, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>> >>wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 05:34:17 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
World Health organisation - using mortality statistics - simpleThat is politically driven supposition. not science.Any hatred of Ardern was not from "the Right" it was from middle New >>>> >>>>Zealand,https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1ic9q7u/i_dont_know_if_my_politics_are_too_stunted_and/
This thread of reddit is kind of mind blowing. Covid-19 is only 5 >>>> >>>>>years
old
and it seems that many people can not remember this very recent
history.
There are hints of the historical facts.
and earned.
Looking back on the way the pandemic was managed I can understand that >>>> >>>mistakes were made based on the information at hand at the time.
However no politician, including Ardern, deserves hatred. That is
irrational and the resort of those who cannot accept what was done in >>>> >>>a rational way.
We can learn from this. The message that seems obvious to me is that >>>> >>>COVID19 was a threat that never had the mortality of previous
pandemics such as influenza (1918) and 'black death' etc. of earlier >>>> >>>times. In early 2020 the Government should have assessed the risk we >>>> >>>faced against known mortality rates in countries with widespread
infections. Instead we assumed mortality rates would be at the same >>>> >>>level as historical pandemics that happened over a century ago.
No I don't think we did. The 1918 influenza epidemic for example was >>>> >>so lethal because we knew nothing about it - just as in the middle
ages humans were not aware that the infection was carried by rats. For >>>> >>this pandemic we had mortality experience in China and other countries >>>> >>well before it hit our shores - we knew it was a virus, and knew about >>>> >>some characteristics. We had the advantage of a few days to lock down >>>> >>international travel, and then a few weeks to watch overseas
experience. So our mortality was not just less than previous
pandemics, but also much lower than other countries, and decisions
were able to be made on a much more informed basis than the past
threats mentioned above. Had we acted in a similar way to the USA we >>>> >>would have had around 22,000 more deaths, and not much difference in >>>> >>economic effects than we actually had - international trade largely
stopped anyway without our discouraging it - as it was some of the
outbreaks did come from ship personnel . . .
mathematics, Tony. You have been told this many many times, but then
you hate facing reality . . .
Just add him to your bozo bin like I have. If people would just stop >>>replying to his messages so frequently, then I wont have to figure out a >>>way to filter out all messages that are in reply too!
So Tony, do you now accept that the World Health organisation gave
useful information that demonstrates with mathematical proof that New
Zealand had significantly lower mortality from Covid than most other
nations, but in particular lower than the USA and UK ? Or are you
just fixated on politics, Tony?
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