https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/11/free-speech-donald-trump-columbia-university-israel-palestine

Free Speech sounds good, until someone else's Free Speech offends; so
if you are going to say a lot of things that most people find
offensive, establishing a strong bias towards "Free Speech" is a
logical political direction. Sure enough, we find that the far-right
in both the USA and here in New Zealand have both pushed the concept
of Free Speech - here through the "Free Speech Union" - with a strong
link through Jordan Williams (like David Seymour, a graduate of Atlas
Network training), to the "NZ Taxpayers Union."

That is not to say that NZ and the USA are much the same even on this
issue, I would only say to you that Chris Luxon takes direction more
willingly than does Donald Trump, and finds little need for the
bombast and anger that Trump relishes

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/11/free-speech-donald-trump-columbia-university-israel-palestine

Free Speech sounds good, until someone else's Free Speech offends; so
if you are going to say a lot of things that most people find
offensive, establishing a strong bias towards "Free Speech" is a
logical political direction. Sure enough, we find that the far-right
in both the USA and here in New Zealand have both pushed the concept
of Free Speech - here through the "Free Speech Union" - with a strong
link through Jordan Williams (like David Seymour, a graduate of Atlas
Network training), to the "NZ Taxpayers Union."

Bullshit. There is no far right politics in this country. And your other comments are outright lies.

That is not to say that NZ and the USA are much the same even on this
issue, I would only say to you that Chris Luxon takes direction more >willingly than does Donald Trump, and finds little need for the
bombast and anger that Trump relishes

What a silly sentence. Illogical and pointless.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 21:54:22 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/11/free-speech-donald-trump-columbia-university-israel-palestine

Free Speech sounds good, until someone else's Free Speech offends; so
if you are going to say a lot of things that most people find
offensive, establishing a strong bias towards "Free Speech" is a
logical political direction.

Free Speech is not about whether what is said is offensive, but about
the freedom to express an opinion unless it incites physical harm.

Sure enough, we find that the far-right
in both the USA and here in New Zealand have both pushed the concept
of Free Speech - here through the "Free Speech Union" - with a strong
link through Jordan Williams (like David Seymour, a graduate of Atlas
Network training), to the "NZ Taxpayers Union."

There you go again with worthless conjecture. You have never been
able to cite the Atlas Network as harmful. You cannot cite either of
these organisations actually expressing any opinion or cause that
comes from Atlas Network sources, and if you did they would not be
harmful. Your abhorrence of the Atlas Network is based purely on
ideology.

That is not to say that NZ and the USA are much the same even on this
issue, I would only say to you that Chris Luxon takes direction more >willingly than does Donald Trump, and finds little need for the
bombast and anger that Trump relishes

Wrong again. Donald Trump is never wrong and takes advice only from
those willing to accept this.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 12/03/25 21:54, Rich80105 wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/11/free-speech-donald-trump-columbia-university-israel-palestine

Free Speech sounds good, until someone else's Free Speech offends; so
if you are going to say a lot of things that most people find
offensive, establishing a strong bias towards "Free Speech" is a
logical political direction. Sure enough, we find that the far-right
in both the USA and here in New Zealand have both pushed the concept
of Free Speech - here through the "Free Speech Union" - with a strong
link through Jordan Williams (like David Seymour, a graduate of Atlas
Network training), to the "NZ Taxpayers Union."

That is not to say that NZ and the USA are much the same even on this
issue, I would only say to you that Chris Luxon takes direction more willingly than does Donald Trump, and finds little need for the
bombast and anger that Trump relishes

greybeard shrugged.

get a haircut, and a real job.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-03-12, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 21:54:22 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/11/free-speech-donald-trump-columbia-university-israel-palestine

Free Speech sounds good, until someone else's Free Speech offends; so
if you are going to say a lot of things that most people find
offensive, establishing a strong bias towards "Free Speech" is a
logical political direction.

Free Speech is not about whether what is said is offensive, but about
the freedom to express an opinion unless it incites physical harm.

Well put. This point seems to get lost, or ignored, on a large number of people.

Sure enough, we find that the far-right
in both the USA and here in New Zealand have both pushed the concept
of Free Speech - here through the "Free Speech Union" - with a strong
link through Jordan Williams (like David Seymour, a graduate of Atlas >>Network training), to the "NZ Taxpayers Union."

There you go again with worthless conjecture. You have never been
able to cite the Atlas Network as harmful. You cannot cite either of
these organisations actually expressing any opinion or cause that
comes from Atlas Network sources, and if you did they would not be
harmful. Your abhorrence of the Atlas Network is based purely on
ideology.

That is not to say that NZ and the USA are much the same even on this >>issue, I would only say to you that Chris Luxon takes direction more >>willingly than does Donald Trump, and finds little need for the
bombast and anger that Trump relishes

Wrong again. Donald Trump is never wrong and takes advice only from
those willing to accept this.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12 Mar 2025 20:36:11 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

On 2025-03-12, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 21:54:22 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/11/free-speech-donald-trump-columbia-university-israel-palestine

Free Speech sounds good, until someone else's Free Speech offends; so
if you are going to say a lot of things that most people find
offensive, establishing a strong bias towards "Free Speech" is a
logical political direction.

Free Speech is not about whether what is said is offensive, but about
the freedom to express an opinion unless it incites physical harm.

Well put. This point seems to get lost, or ignored, on a large number of >people.

Hardly, most people understand that on many issues there will be a
range of opinions, and that some will be offended by some opinions of
others. Harm need not only be physical - we also accept that mental
harm can be unfairly caused by the expression of opinions, and that at
some level expression of opinions may need to be limited, particularly
when an opinion is provably wrong. I have just written a response to a
thread relating to interpretation of the Treaty, where mis-information
was sent to New Zealanders for a political purpose of removing or at
least reducing property rights for a group of New Zealanders. Free
speech is not the issue - deliberate deception was and still is.

Sure enough, we find that the far-right
in both the USA and here in New Zealand have both pushed the concept
of Free Speech - here through the "Free Speech Union" - with a strong >>>link through Jordan Williams (like David Seymour, a graduate of Atlas >>>Network training), to the "NZ Taxpayers Union."

There you go again with worthless conjecture. You have never been
able to cite the Atlas Network as harmful. You cannot cite either of
these organisations actually expressing any opinion or cause that
comes from Atlas Network sources, and if you did they would not be
harmful. Your abhorrence of the Atlas Network is based purely on
ideology.

That is not to say that NZ and the USA are much the same even on this >>>issue, I would only say to you that Chris Luxon takes direction more >>>willingly than does Donald Trump, and finds little need for the
bombast and anger that Trump relishes

Wrong again. Donald Trump is never wrong and takes advice only from
those willing to accept this.

I agree - but never wrong in his own mind, even when he changes it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 21:54:22 +1300, Rich80105 wrote:

Free Speech sounds good, until someone else's Free Speech offends ...

There should be no “right not to be offended”.

Blasphemy is not a crime in any civilized country.

Sure enough, we find that the far-right in both the USA and here in
New Zealand have both pushed the concept of Free Speech ...

Their concept of free speech seems to mean the right of them to spout
their ideology, not the right of anybody with opposing views to challenge
them.

That Guardian article makes that point quite clearly.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 06:40:54 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 21:54:22 +1300, Rich80105 wrote:

Free Speech sounds good, until someone else's Free Speech offends ...

There should be no �right not to be offended�.

Blasphemy is not a crime in any civilized country.

Sure enough, we find that the far-right in both the USA and here in
New Zealand have both pushed the concept of Free Speech ...

Their concept of free speech seems to mean the right of them to spout
their ideology, not the right of anybody with opposing views to challenge >them.

That Guardian article makes that point quite clearly.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

For example, consider that documentary “No Other Land”, jointly produced
by an Israeli and a Palestinian, that won an award at the Oscars recently, chronicling ongoing attempts by Israeli settlers to evict Palestinians and steal their land. Even with all the publicity buzz, you would be hard put
to find it screened anywhere in the USA.

Why? Because of political pressure like this <https://aje.io/ejvazw?update=3576116>. For a country that prides itself
on its Constitutional “First Amendment”, actual journalistic freedoms are poorly protected.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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