https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/545689/step-backwards-uffindell-s-equal-voting-rights-bill-challenged

Sam Uffindell, MP for Tauranga, has sponsered a private members bill for
equal rights voting. This is the cousin of David Seymour's treaty bill. The response is much the same.

The fact that such a bill has come into existence when NZ women had right
to vote in 1893, some 132 years ago does ask the question have we lost the plot?

The response also shows that the waters are very murky. There does seem to
be a view that one person one vote does not apply. One person one vote is
one of the corner stones of a democracy. (MMP gives two votes)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 23 Mar 2025 02:08:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/545689/step-backwards-uffindell-s-equal-voting-rights-bill-challenged

Sam Uffindell, MP for Tauranga, has sponsered a private members bill for >equal rights voting. This is the cousin of David Seymour's treaty bill. The >response is much the same.

The fact that such a bill has come into existence when NZ women had right
to vote in 1893, some 132 years ago does ask the question have we lost the >plot?

The response also shows that the waters are very murky. There does seem to
be a view that one person one vote does not apply. One person one vote is
one of the corner stones of a democracy. (MMP gives two votes)

Most MMP systems do that, and they are generally regarded as being
closer to democratic than voting in a single electorate. The previous
system for example shut one party out of being represented even though
they got over 15% of the vote.

This is just reflex racism from Uffindell - the Maori seats have been
there for many years, and Councils have rightly been given the power
to ensure more effective representation of different groups in a
community than their previous system. In broad terms it does retain
equal voting power for each person with a vote.

"The Greatest Democracy in the World" as we have often been told it
is, elected Donald Trump as President in a system that gives small
states equal voting power as States with 5 times their population -
leading to Donald Trump becoming President with a minority of votes.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 23 Mar 2025 02:08:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/545689/step-backwards-uffindell-s-equal-voting-rights-bill-challenged

Sam Uffindell, MP for Tauranga, has sponsered a private members bill for >>equal rights voting. This is the cousin of David Seymour's treaty bill. The >>response is much the same.

The fact that such a bill has come into existence when NZ women had right >>to vote in 1893, some 132 years ago does ask the question have we lost the >>plot?

The response also shows that the waters are very murky. There does seem to >>be a view that one person one vote does not apply. One person one vote is >>one of the corner stones of a democracy. (MMP gives two votes)

Most MMP systems do that, and they are generally regarded as being
closer to democratic than voting in a single electorate. The previous
system for example shut one party out of being represented even though
they got over 15% of the vote.

This is just reflex racism from Uffindell

Nom he is fighting overt racism. From people like you.

- the Maori seats have been
there for many years, and Councils have rightly been given the power
to ensure more effective representation of different groups in a
community than their previous system. In broad terms it does retain
equal voting power for each person with a vote.

Councils should not have that right., Elected representation only, that is real democracy.
Your comments are racist.

"The Greatest Democracy in the World" as we have often been told it
is, elected Donald Trump as President in a system that gives small
states equal voting power as States with 5 times their population -
leading to Donald Trump becoming President with a minority of votes.

Exactly, undemocratic.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 16:27:48 +1300, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On 23 Mar 2025 02:08:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/545689/step-backwards-uffindell-s-equal-voting-rights-bill-challenged

Sam Uffindell, MP for Tauranga, has sponsered a private members bill for >>equal rights voting. This is the cousin of David Seymour's treaty bill. The >>response is much the same.

The fact that such a bill has come into existence when NZ women had right >>to vote in 1893, some 132 years ago does ask the question have we lost the >>plot?

The response also shows that the waters are very murky. There does seem to >>be a view that one person one vote does not apply. One person one vote is >>one of the corner stones of a democracy. (MMP gives two votes)

Most MMP systems do that, and they are generally regarded as being
closer to democratic than voting in a single electorate. The previous
system for example shut one party out of being represented even though
they got over 15% of the vote.

This is just reflex racism from Uffindell - the Maori seats have been
there for many years, and Councils have rightly been given the power
to ensure more effective representation of different groups in a
community than their previous system. In broad terms it does retain
equal voting power for each person with a vote.

Not in the Far North.

I don't have the time to dig up the requisite cites at the moment but
prior to establishing Maori wards, councilors of Maori descent were over-represented on Council compared to the ratio of Maori roll to
general roll numbers in the district. There was no problem with this
but the introduction of Maori-only wards meant that Maori could win representation in general wards as well as Maori-only wards, and this
is what happened. I am quite happy to have Maori wards, so long as
Maori are excluded from standing in non-Maori wards (not the case at
present) as non-Maori are excluded from standing in Maori wards (is
the case at present).

Or we could revert to the status quo prior to the introduction of
Maori wards where Maori were over-represented because in a
one-person-one-vote system they garnered support on merit from those
on both rolls.

"The Greatest Democracy in the World" as we have often been told it
is, elected Donald Trump as President in a system that gives small
states equal voting power as States with 5 times their population -
leading to Donald Trump becoming President with a minority of votes.

Not quite in 2024: https://www.cfr.org/article/2024-election-numbers

Trump may not have got over 50% of the popular vote but 49.8% is
pretty close and way more than Biden. There were more than 2
candidates, so the electoral college votes reflected the popular vote.


--
Crash McBash

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:43:45 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 23 Mar 2025 02:08:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/545689/step-backwards-uffindell-s-equal-voting-rights-bill-challenged

Sam Uffindell, MP for Tauranga, has sponsered a private members bill for >>>equal rights voting. This is the cousin of David Seymour's treaty bill. The >>>response is much the same.

The fact that such a bill has come into existence when NZ women had right >>>to vote in 1893, some 132 years ago does ask the question have we lost the >>>plot?

The response also shows that the waters are very murky. There does seem to >>>be a view that one person one vote does not apply. One person one vote is >>>one of the corner stones of a democracy. (MMP gives two votes)

Most MMP systems do that, and they are generally regarded as being
closer to democratic than voting in a single electorate. The previous >>system for example shut one party out of being represented even though
they got over 15% of the vote.

This is just reflex racism from Uffindell

Nom he is fighting overt racism. From people like you.

- the Maori seats have been
there for many years, and Councils have rightly been given the power
to ensure more effective representation of different groups in a
community than their previous system. In broad terms it does retain
equal voting power for each person with a vote.

Councils should not have that right., Elected representation only, that is real
democracy.
Your comments are racist.

"The Greatest Democracy in the World" as we have often been told it
is, elected Donald Trump as President in a system that gives small
states equal voting power as States with 5 times their population -
leading to Donald Trump becoming President with a minority of votes. >Exactly, undemocratic.

In terms of the degree that we are democratic we do not do too badly
in a chart put together by The Economist: See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

where the latest scores (for 2024) include: (higher scores indicate
more democratic)

Australia 8.85
New Zealand 9.61
Singapore 6.18
Russia 2.03
Mexico 5.32
South Africa 7.16
Canada 8.69
United States 7.85
Denmark 9.28
Finland 9.30
Ireland 9.19
Sweden 9.39
United Kingdom 8.34

In a ranking of countries, New Zealand comes second to Norway - we are
lower than them on the parameters Functioning of Government and
Political culture, and higher than Norway on Civil liberties. Sweden
is third in the world, and the USA 28th.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:43:45 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 23 Mar 2025 02:08:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/545689/step-backwards-uffindell-s-equal-voting-rights-bill-challenged

Sam Uffindell, MP for Tauranga, has sponsered a private members bill for >>>>equal rights voting. This is the cousin of David Seymour's treaty bill. The >>>>response is much the same.

The fact that such a bill has come into existence when NZ women had right >>>>to vote in 1893, some 132 years ago does ask the question have we lost the >>>>plot?

The response also shows that the waters are very murky. There does seem to >>>>be a view that one person one vote does not apply. One person one vote is >>>>one of the corner stones of a democracy. (MMP gives two votes)

Most MMP systems do that, and they are generally regarded as being
closer to democratic than voting in a single electorate. The previous >>>system for example shut one party out of being represented even though >>>they got over 15% of the vote.

This is just reflex racism from Uffindell

Nom he is fighting overt racism. From people like you.

- the Maori seats have been
there for many years, and Councils have rightly been given the power
to ensure more effective representation of different groups in a >>>community than their previous system. In broad terms it does retain
equal voting power for each person with a vote.

Councils should not have that right., Elected representation only, that is >>real
democracy.
Your comments are racist.

"The Greatest Democracy in the World" as we have often been told it
is, elected Donald Trump as President in a system that gives small
states equal voting power as States with 5 times their population - >>>leading to Donald Trump becoming President with a minority of votes. >>Exactly, undemocratic.

In terms of the degree that we are democratic we do not do too badly
in a chart put together by The Economist: See >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

where the latest scores (for 2024) include: (higher scores indicate
more democratic)

Australia 8.85
New Zealand 9.61
Singapore 6.18
Russia 2.03
Mexico 5.32
South Africa 7.16
Canada 8.69
United States 7.85
Denmark 9.28
Finland 9.30
Ireland 9.19
Sweden 9.39
United Kingdom 8.34

In a ranking of countries, New Zealand comes second to Norway - we are
lower than them on the parameters Functioning of Government and
Political culture, and higher than Norway on Civil liberties. Sweden
is third in the world, and the USA 28th.

Off topic. I was referrinmg to the USA in response to your reference to the same country. Nothing to do with us.
However I do agree that in the last 18 months or so we have become far more democratic than we were in the previous three years.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 06:08:45 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:43:45 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 23 Mar 2025 02:08:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/545689/step-backwards-uffindell-s-equal-voting-rights-bill-challenged

Sam Uffindell, MP for Tauranga, has sponsered a private members bill for >>>>>equal rights voting. This is the cousin of David Seymour's treaty bill. The
response is much the same.

The fact that such a bill has come into existence when NZ women had right >>>>>to vote in 1893, some 132 years ago does ask the question have we lost the >>>>>plot?

The response also shows that the waters are very murky. There does seem to >>>>>be a view that one person one vote does not apply. One person one vote is >>>>>one of the corner stones of a democracy. (MMP gives two votes)

Most MMP systems do that, and they are generally regarded as being >>>>closer to democratic than voting in a single electorate. The previous >>>>system for example shut one party out of being represented even though >>>>they got over 15% of the vote.

This is just reflex racism from Uffindell

Nom he is fighting overt racism. From people like you.

- the Maori seats have been
there for many years, and Councils have rightly been given the power
to ensure more effective representation of different groups in a >>>>community than their previous system. In broad terms it does retain >>>>equal voting power for each person with a vote.

Councils should not have that right., Elected representation only, that is >>>real
democracy.
Your comments are racist.

"The Greatest Democracy in the World" as we have often been told it
is, elected Donald Trump as President in a system that gives small >>>>states equal voting power as States with 5 times their population - >>>>leading to Donald Trump becoming President with a minority of votes. >>>Exactly, undemocratic.

In terms of the degree that we are democratic we do not do too badly
in a chart put together by The Economist: See >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

where the latest scores (for 2024) include: (higher scores indicate
more democratic)

Australia 8.85
New Zealand 9.61
Singapore 6.18
Russia 2.03
Mexico 5.32
South Africa 7.16
Canada 8.69
United States 7.85
Denmark 9.28
Finland 9.30
Ireland 9.19
Sweden 9.39
United Kingdom 8.34

In a ranking of countries, New Zealand comes second to Norway - we are >>lower than them on the parameters Functioning of Government and
Political culture, and higher than Norway on Civil liberties. Sweden
is third in the world, and the USA 28th.

Off topic. I was referrinmg to the USA in response to your reference to the >same country. Nothing to do with us.
However I do agree that in the last 18 months or so we have become far more >democratic than we were in the previous three years.

Our voting system has not changed, and you have not been able to find
any actions of government or indicators that even suggest that we are
more democratic following the election of the current ACT/NZ
First/National government

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 06:08:45 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 04:43:45 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 23 Mar 2025 02:08:54 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/545689/step-backwards-uffindell-s-equal-voting-rights-bill-challenged

Sam Uffindell, MP for Tauranga, has sponsered a private members bill for >>>>>>equal rights voting. This is the cousin of David Seymour's treaty bill. >>>>>>The
response is much the same.

The fact that such a bill has come into existence when NZ women had right >>>>>>to vote in 1893, some 132 years ago does ask the question have we lost the
plot?

The response also shows that the waters are very murky. There does seem to
be a view that one person one vote does not apply. One person one vote is >>>>>>one of the corner stones of a democracy. (MMP gives two votes)

Most MMP systems do that, and they are generally regarded as being >>>>>closer to democratic than voting in a single electorate. The previous >>>>>system for example shut one party out of being represented even though >>>>>they got over 15% of the vote.

This is just reflex racism from Uffindell

Nom he is fighting overt racism. From people like you.

- the Maori seats have been
there for many years, and Councils have rightly been given the power >>>>>to ensure more effective representation of different groups in a >>>>>community than their previous system. In broad terms it does retain >>>>>equal voting power for each person with a vote.

Councils should not have that right., Elected representation only, that is >>>>real
democracy.
Your comments are racist.

"The Greatest Democracy in the World" as we have often been told it >>>>>is, elected Donald Trump as President in a system that gives small >>>>>states equal voting power as States with 5 times their population - >>>>>leading to Donald Trump becoming President with a minority of votes. >>>>Exactly, undemocratic.

In terms of the degree that we are democratic we do not do too badly
in a chart put together by The Economist: See >>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

where the latest scores (for 2024) include: (higher scores indicate
more democratic)

Australia 8.85
New Zealand 9.61
Singapore 6.18
Russia 2.03
Mexico 5.32
South Africa 7.16
Canada 8.69
United States 7.85
Denmark 9.28
Finland 9.30
Ireland 9.19
Sweden 9.39
United Kingdom 8.34

In a ranking of countries, New Zealand comes second to Norway - we are >>>lower than them on the parameters Functioning of Government and
Political culture, and higher than Norway on Civil liberties. Sweden
is third in the world, and the USA 28th.

Off topic. I was referrinmg to the USA in response to your reference to the >>same country. Nothing to do with us.
However I do agree that in the last 18 months or so we have become far more >>democratic than we were in the previous three years.

Our voting system has not changed

I didn't suggest that it had..

, and you have not been able to find
any actions of government or indicators that even suggest that we are
more democratic following the election of the current ACT/NZ
First/National government

Your memory is conveniently defective. We have stopped the co-governance, three waters etc. undemocratic racist garbage started by the last government without a mandate.. Clearly we are more democratic now.
I wouldn't need to remind an honest person of that but you are what you are.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)