1. Forum
  2. Usenet
  3. NZ.GENERAL

  • Re: The subsistence behind the =?UTF-8?B?TcSBb3Jp?= seats in Parliament

    From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 25 01:55:44 2025
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 13:27:47 +1200, Rich80105 wrote:

    The advantage of the Maori Seats is that without them, Maori may end up
    like Social Credit - getting a minority vote in most electorates but
    very few seats . . .

    The only reason that happened was because of “First Past The Post” voting: they had support from something like 15% of the electorate at their peak,
    as I recall, but that 15% was spread so thin that they could only get a
    win in about 2% of the available seats.

    Under MMP, Māori don’t have that problem. Remember, 2 of the 3 party
    leaders in the present coalition are of Māori descent.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to ldo@nz.invalid on Sun May 25 14:29:06 2025
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 01:55:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Sun, 25 May 2025 13:27:47 +1200, Rich80105 wrote:

    The advantage of the Maori Seats is that without them, Maori may end up
    like Social Credit - getting a minority vote in most electorates but
    very few seats . . .

    The only reason that happened was because of First Past The Post voting: >they had support from something like 15% of the electorate at their peak,
    as I recall, but that 15% was spread so thin that they could only get a
    win in about 2% of the available seats.

    Under MMP, M?ori dont have that problem. Remember, 2 of the 3 party
    leaders in the present coalition are of M?ori descent.
    And neither would wish to stand in a Maori seat, or even wish to
    present themselves as being "of Maori descent" in many situations, but
    at least some who do stand in Maori seats would not succeed in a
    non-Maori seat - they would represent less than 15% of voters in most
    other electorates. One change that would assist fairness may well be
    to have preferential voting in each electorate.

    We do need to consider change in a lot of areas relating to
    representation, toleration of differences, and seeking consensus on
    issues that are common to parliament regardless of the parties in
    power, and for most of these it is important that there is a
    reasonable consensus - the proposed penalties that Collins wanted to
    push through were a long way from previous penalties for other actions
    that have been put before that committee. In particular, decisions
    have normally been reached by consensus, in the best interests of long
    term stability but with change as necessary.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 25 04:50:10 2025
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 14:29:06 +1200, Rich80105 wrote:

    And neither would wish to stand in a Maori seat, or even wish to
    present themselves as being "of Maori descent" in many situations ...

    Makes no difference how they “present themselves”, everybody knows who
    they are and where they come from.

    We do need to consider change in a lot of areas relating to
    representation ...

    Not sure why. Voters on the Māori roll are known for giving their list
    vote to Labour, even as they might support Māori Party candidates in those seats. Do you see that as a bad thing? I see it as a message to the Māori Party from their own supporters.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to ldo@nz.invalid on Sun May 25 19:19:17 2025
    On Sun, 25 May 2025 04:50:10 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Sun, 25 May 2025 14:29:06 +1200, Rich80105 wrote:

    And neither would wish to stand in a Maori seat, or even wish to
    present themselves as being "of Maori descent" in many situations ...

    Makes no difference how they present themselves, everybody knows who
    they are and where they come from.

    We do need to consider change in a lot of areas relating to
    representation ...

    Not sure why. Voters on the M?ori roll are known for giving their list
    vote to Labour, even as they might support M?ori Party candidates in those >seats. Do you see that as a bad thing? I see it as a message to the M?ori >Party from their own supporters.

    I had already mentioned the possibility of preferential voting,
    another change would be to move towards the Australian system for the
    party vote where it would be possible to indicate some preference for
    the order of MPs in the party list - some supporters may for example
    want to modify the order of candidates for example. But my comments
    about working together were also directed to management of things like
    conduct in the house - for example it may be useful to have equal
    numbers of members of the Privileges Committee from Government parties
    and Opposition parties, and to restrict penalties, to always allow the
    full number of votes to be cast (as is the case for normal absences
    from the House), and to require full agreement for heavy penalties
    such as monetary fines or long periods of exclusion from the house.

    All votes send a message to at least some extent - the "tactical"
    voting arranged to ensure that Epsom was able to assist in returning
    two MPS was not unreasonable, it reflected the reality that National
    has moved towards ACT in terms of policies and that practice gives
    maximum benefit to the coalition from that practice . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)