• A legal view from Te Pati Maori legal Representative

    From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 12 21:38:53 2025
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/mata-with-mihingarangi-forbes/story/2018991002/mata-season-3-episode-11-tania-waikato

    This clarifies a few issues, such as confirming that the haka is not
    intended to intimidate, setting hearing times when all are available
    is included in standing orders but ignored by the Committee.

    It also links the haka to the extremely offensive Bill that was, in
    the view of many New Zealanders, "the most divisive, racist piece of legislation that has ever been introduced during our lifetimes".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Thu Jun 12 21:55:48 2025
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote: >https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/mata-with-mihingarangi-forbes/story/2018991002/mata-season-3-episode-11-tania-waikato

    This clarifies a few issues, such as confirming that the haka is not
    intended to intimidate, setting hearing times when all are available
    is included in standing orders but ignored by the Committee.
    It muddies the waters, quite deliberately. It is opinion and not supported by fact.
    Whether the Haka is intended to intimidate is not in question, of course it is. And it does.

    It also links the haka to the extremely offensive Bill that was, in
    the view of many New Zealanders, "the most divisive, racist piece of >legislation that has ever been introduced during our lifetimes".
    Which is simply a lie.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 13 11:55:27 2025
    On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 21:38:53 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/mata-with-mihingarangi-forbes/story/2018991002/mata-season-3-episode-11-tania-waikato

    This clarifies a few issues, such as confirming that the haka is not
    intended to intimidate,

    Performed in the floor of Parliament by those that opposed the treaty Principles Bill and confronting the Bill's sponsor. The performance
    was angry and aggressive.

    Next you will be claiming that the Haka performed by the All Blacks
    before every game they play - which is a general performance clearly
    aimed at the opposing team (not any individual) - is simply a welcome
    to their opponents.

    Jeez Rich you post irrational rubbish sometimes.

    setting hearing times when all are available
    is included in standing orders but ignored by the Committee.

    Can you cite to support this? It may be true in respect of committee
    members but I don't think it is true of MPs referred to the Privileges Committee.

    It also links the haka to the extremely offensive Bill that was, in
    the view of many New Zealanders, "the most divisive, racist piece of >legislation that has ever been introduced during our lifetimes".

    The issue is the Haka - where it was performed and the circumstances applicable. Why it was performed is not relevant.


    --
    Crash McBash

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich80105@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 13 16:59:17 2025
    On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 11:55:27 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 21:38:53 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/mata-with-mihingarangi-forbes/story/2018991002/mata-season-3-episode-11-tania-waikato

    This clarifies a few issues, such as confirming that the haka is not >>intended to intimidate,

    Performed in the floor of Parliament by those that opposed the treaty >Principles Bill and confronting the Bill's sponsor. The performance
    was angry and aggressive.

    Next you will be claiming that the Haka performed by the All Blacks
    before every game they play - which is a general performance clearly
    aimed at the opposing team (not any individual) - is simply a welcome
    to their opponents.

    Jeez Rich you post irrational rubbish sometimes.

    setting hearing times when all are available
    is included in standing orders but ignored by the Committee.

    Can you cite to support this? It may be true in respect of committee
    members but I don't think it is true of MPs referred to the Privileges >Committee.

    From the article cited above: "Requests to the committee to have a
    hearing at a time when both counsels were available and for the
    accused to bring evidence to defend themselves against the allegations
    were rejected even though that was provided for in the standing
    orders, she said."


    It also links the haka to the extremely offensive Bill that was, in
    the view of many New Zealanders, "the most divisive, racist piece of >>legislation that has ever been introduced during our lifetimes".

    The issue is the Haka - where it was performed and the circumstances >applicable. Why it was performed is not relevant.

    The circumstances applicable to the Maori party are the reason why it
    was performed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony@21:1/5 to Rich80105@hotmail.com on Fri Jun 13 07:09:05 2025
    Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 11:55:27 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 21:38:53 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/mata-with-mihingarangi-forbes/story/2018991002/mata-season-3-episode-11-tania-waikato

    This clarifies a few issues, such as confirming that the haka is not >>>intended to intimidate,

    Performed in the floor of Parliament by those that opposed the treaty >>Principles Bill and confronting the Bill's sponsor. The performance
    was angry and aggressive.

    Next you will be claiming that the Haka performed by the All Blacks
    before every game they play - which is a general performance clearly
    aimed at the opposing team (not any individual) - is simply a welcome
    to their opponents.

    Jeez Rich you post irrational rubbish sometimes.

    setting hearing times when all are available
    is included in standing orders but ignored by the Committee.

    Can you cite to support this? It may be true in respect of committee >>members but I don't think it is true of MPs referred to the Privileges >>Committee.

    From the article cited above: "Requests to the committee to have a
    hearing at a time when both counsels were available and for the
    accused to bring evidence to defend themselves against the allegations
    were rejected even though that was provided for in the standing
    orders, she said."


    It also links the haka to the extremely offensive Bill that was, in
    the view of many New Zealanders, "the most divisive, racist piece of >>>legislation that has ever been introduced during our lifetimes".

    The issue is the Haka - where it was performed and the circumstances >>applicable. Why it was performed is not relevant.

    The circumstances applicable to the Maori party are the reason why it
    was performed.
    All of which ignores the real issue. Disrespecting all New Zealanders - because that is what they did.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 14 09:18:05 2025
    On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 16:59:17 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 13 Jun 2025 11:55:27 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Jun 2025 21:38:53 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/mata-with-mihingarangi-forbes/story/2018991002/mata-season-3-episode-11-tania-waikato

    This clarifies a few issues, such as confirming that the haka is not >>>intended to intimidate,

    Performed in the floor of Parliament by those that opposed the treaty >>Principles Bill and confronting the Bill's sponsor. The performance
    was angry and aggressive.

    Next you will be claiming that the Haka performed by the All Blacks
    before every game they play - which is a general performance clearly
    aimed at the opposing team (not any individual) - is simply a welcome
    to their opponents.

    Jeez Rich you post irrational rubbish sometimes.

    setting hearing times when all are available
    is included in standing orders but ignored by the Committee.

    Can you cite to support this? It may be true in respect of committee >>members but I don't think it is true of MPs referred to the Privileges >>Committee.

    That is a claim made in the article by Tania Waikato, a lawyer acting
    for the Maori Party. I am asking for a cite from the standing orders
    pertinent to the Privileges Committee, outlining how hearing times are
    set.

    From prior reading on such issues, my understanding is that if an MP
    is referred to the Privileges Committee they are required to front up
    at a time of the Committee's choice during sitting days. It is more
    like a summons.

    From the article cited above: "Requests to the committee to have a
    hearing at a time when both counsels were available and for the
    accused to bring evidence to defend themselves against the allegations
    were rejected even though that was provided for in the standing
    orders, she said."


    It also links the haka to the extremely offensive Bill that was, in
    the view of many New Zealanders, "the most divisive, racist piece of >>>legislation that has ever been introduced during our lifetimes".

    The issue is the Haka - where it was performed and the circumstances >>applicable. Why it was performed is not relevant.

    The circumstances applicable to the Maori party are the reason why it
    was performed.

    What circumstances were those? There are rules of conduct in
    Parliament with no exemptions.


    --
    Crash McBash

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