https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last
April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the >grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I was posting to nz.general; my post compared the situation outlined
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Completely off topic, why can you not stick to a subject without mounting your >childish hobby horse?
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the >>>grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation,
now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of
our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of
the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value
of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event
of a major failure. If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too
much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase
prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling
to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered
without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is
desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often
to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought
at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
Gordon's post was not political so perhaps you could at least pretend to be >polite and keep it that way. But I doubt you can.Systems for delivery of essential services are political - and
As above - totally on topic.As above - off topic.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree
that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard
of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but
some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap
battery storage.
As above - totally on topic. You appear to be following the nutty farAs above - off topic.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here
- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we
are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the
average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a
broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a
month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including
the cost of transport.
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Completely off topic, why can you not stick to a subject without mounting your childish hobby horse?
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the >>grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation,
now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of
our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of
the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value
of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event
of a major failure. If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too
much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase
prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling
to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered
without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is
desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often
to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing
company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought
at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agreeAs above - off topic.
that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in
Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard
of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but
some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap
battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers hereAs above - off topic.
- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the
election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we
are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the
average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for
overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a
broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a
month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including
the cost of transport.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 02:35:13 -0000 (UTC), TonyReally, I thought you were posting to your tooth fairy. You really are thick.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:I was posting to nz.general;
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:childish hobby horse?
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>>>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the >>>>grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>>>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation,
now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of
our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of >>>the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value
of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event
of a major failure. If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill >>>water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too
much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase
prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling
to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered
without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is
desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often
to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought
at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated. >>Completely off topic, why can you not stick to a subject without mounting >>your
my post compared the situation outlinedNo, it was pointedly poitical as usual.
regarding electricity supply in Spain and other countries, and the
system here.
Totally on topic - you are just trying to distract fromNope, you are the fool not me.
the comparison.
Bullshit.Gordon's post was not political so perhaps you could at least pretend to be >>polite and keep it that way. But I doubt you can.Systems for delivery of essential services are political - and
resulting from those politics New Zealand has advantages relating to
security of supply, and disadvantages regarding cost of production
compared with prices charged to consumers.
No, not even close.As above - totally on topic.As above - off topic.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree >>>that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard
of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but
some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap
battery storage.
They are not far right, we have no far right in government. Therefore they can have no nutty far right views - capiche? doubt it.As above - totally on topic. You appear to be following the nutty farAs above - off topic.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here
- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we
are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the
average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a
broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a >>>month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including
the cost of transport.
right views of Jones, Seymour and CLuxon . . .
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the >>grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation,
now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of
our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of
the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value
of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event
of a major failure.
If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too
much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase
prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling
to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered
without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is
desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often
to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing
company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought
at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree
that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in
Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard
of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but
some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap
battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here
- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the
election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we
are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the
average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for
overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a
broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a
month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including
the cost of transport.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 13:26:27 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>On your basis, as the article did not directly refer to New Zealand,
wrote:
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the >>>grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation,
now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of
our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of
the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value
of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event
of a major failure.
So you have now wandered off-topic from Gordon's original post in your
haste to introduce political rhetoric to the thread.
Gordon simply raised an issue of what can happen when solar powerAnd I pointed out that our circumstances differ - that is it through
suppliers detected oversupply Spain. Not covered in that article was
that oversupply is an actual technical requirement because undersupply
is catastrophic - the nature of electricity supply is that generating >capacity must always exceed demand or severe damage will occur to
generation assets, but in this case oversupply was detected and
generation capacity taken offline with dire consequences.
Gordon made no mention of NZ.But he did post it to nz.general - are you claiming that he was
Instead you launch into an unrelated diatribe:Only in your eyes - it was merely a simple description of why we are
If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too
much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase
prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling
to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered
without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is
desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often
to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought
at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree
that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard
of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but
some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap
battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here
- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we
are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the
average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a
broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a
month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including
the cost of transport.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:52:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>If you really believe that then you are indeed a fool.
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 13:26:27 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:On your basis, as the article did not directly refer to New Zealand,
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>>>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the >>>>grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>>>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation,
now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of
our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of >>>the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value
of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event
of a major failure.
So you have now wandered off-topic from Gordon's original post in your >>haste to introduce political rhetoric to the thread.
it was off topic; my comparing their situation with New Zealand was
making the whole discussion relevant to nz.general.
That is equally silly.And I pointed out that our circumstances differ - that is it through
Gordon simply raised an issue of what can happen when solar power
suppliers detected oversupply Spain. Not covered in that article was
that oversupply is an actual technical requirement because undersupply
is catastrophic - the nature of electricity supply is that generating >>capacity must always exceed demand or severe damage will occur to >>generation assets, but in this case oversupply was detected and
generation capacity taken offline with dire consequences.
our ability to generate a lot of power through hydro is a significant >difference.
But he did post it to nz.general - are you claiming that he was
Gordon made no mention of NZ.
off-topic?
Different problems means another topic, obviously.Only in your eyes - it was merely a simple description of why we are
Instead you launch into an unrelated diatribe:
unlikely to have the same problems as Spain, but that we have
different problems.
If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too
much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase
prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling
to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered
without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is
desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often
to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought
at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree >>>that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard
of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but
some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap
battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here
- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we
are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the
average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a
broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a >>>month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including
the cost of transport.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:An ignorant assertion with no evidence - a typical post demonstrating
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:52:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:If you really believe that then you are indeed a fool.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 13:26:27 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:On your basis, as the article did not directly refer to New Zealand,
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>>>>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the >>>>>grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>>>>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation, >>>>now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of
our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of >>>>the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value
of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event >>>>of a major failure.
So you have now wandered off-topic from Gordon's original post in your >>>haste to introduce political rhetoric to the thread.
it was off topic; my comparing their situation with New Zealand was
making the whole discussion relevant to nz.general.
Not just ignorant but an evidence-free assertion - yep - that's Tony!That is equally silly.
And I pointed out that our circumstances differ - that is it through
Gordon simply raised an issue of what can happen when solar power >>>suppliers detected oversupply Spain. Not covered in that article was >>>that oversupply is an actual technical requirement because undersupply
is catastrophic - the nature of electricity supply is that generating >>>capacity must always exceed demand or severe damage will occur to >>>generation assets, but in this case oversupply was detected and >>>generation capacity taken offline with dire consequences.
our ability to generate a lot of power through hydro is a significant >>difference.
But he did post it to nz.general - are you claiming that he was
Gordon made no mention of NZ.
off-topic?
Now Tony is just wrong - electricity supply is a single topicDifferent problems means another topic, obviously.Only in your eyes - it was merely a simple description of why we are >>unlikely to have the same problems as Spain, but that we have
Instead you launch into an unrelated diatribe:
different problems.
If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too >>>>much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase >>>>prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling
to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered
without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is >>>>desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often
to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>>>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought >>>>at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree >>>>that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>>>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard >>>>of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but >>>>some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap
battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here
- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>>>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we >>>>are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the
average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>>>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a >>>>broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a >>>>month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>>>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including
the cost of transport.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 06:38:39 -0000 (UTC), TonyI agree, you should really get help. That's exactly what I implied.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:An ignorant assertion with no evidence - a typical post demonstrating
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:52:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:If you really believe that then you are indeed a fool.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 13:26:27 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:On your basis, as the article did not directly refer to New Zealand,
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>>>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>>>>>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the
grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>>>>>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation, >>>>>now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of >>>>>our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of >>>>>the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value >>>>>of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event >>>>>of a major failure.
So you have now wandered off-topic from Gordon's original post in your >>>>haste to introduce political rhetoric to the thread.
it was off topic; my comparing their situation with New Zealand was >>>making the whole discussion relevant to nz.general.
lack of understanding by Tony
You really are dumb. Nobody believes you.Not just ignorant but an evidence-free assertion - yep - that's Tony!That is equally silly.
And I pointed out that our circumstances differ - that is it through
Gordon simply raised an issue of what can happen when solar power >>>>suppliers detected oversupply Spain. Not covered in that article was >>>>that oversupply is an actual technical requirement because undersupply >>>>is catastrophic - the nature of electricity supply is that generating >>>>capacity must always exceed demand or severe damage will occur to >>>>generation assets, but in this case oversupply was detected and >>>>generation capacity taken offline with dire consequences.
our ability to generate a lot of power through hydro is a significant >>>difference.
But he did post it to nz.general - are you claiming that he was >>>off-topic?
Gordon made no mention of NZ.
This topic was solar power, not electricity. Do get some help.Now Tony is just wrong - electricity supply is a single topicDifferent problems means another topic, obviously.Only in your eyes - it was merely a simple description of why we are >>>unlikely to have the same problems as Spain, but that we have
Instead you launch into an unrelated diatribe:
different problems.
If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too >>>>>much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase >>>>>prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling >>>>>to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered >>>>>without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is >>>>>desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often >>>>>to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>>>>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought >>>>>at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree >>>>>that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>>>>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard >>>>>of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but >>>>>some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap >>>>>battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here >>>>>- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>>>>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we >>>>>are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the >>>>>average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>>>>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a >>>>>broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a >>>>>month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>>>>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including >>>>>the cost of transport.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:52:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 13:26:27 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:On your basis, as the article did not directly refer to New Zealand,
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>>>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the >>>>grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>>>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation,
now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of
our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of >>>the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value
of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event
of a major failure.
So you have now wandered off-topic from Gordon's original post in your >>haste to introduce political rhetoric to the thread.
it was off topic; my comparing their situation with New Zealand was
making the whole discussion relevant to nz.general.
And I pointed out that our circumstances differ - that is it through
Gordon simply raised an issue of what can happen when solar power
suppliers detected oversupply Spain. Not covered in that article was
that oversupply is an actual technical requirement because undersupply
is catastrophic - the nature of electricity supply is that generating >>capacity must always exceed demand or severe damage will occur to >>generation assets, but in this case oversupply was detected and
generation capacity taken offline with dire consequences.
our ability to generate a lot of power through hydro is a significant >difference.
But he did post it to nz.general - are you claiming that he was
Gordon made no mention of NZ.
off-topic?
Only in your eyes - it was merely a simple description of why we are
Instead you launch into an unrelated diatribe:
unlikely to have the same problems as Spain, but that we have
different problems.
If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too
much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase
prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling
to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered
without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is
desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often
to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought
at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree >>>that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard
of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but
some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap
battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here
- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we
are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the
average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a
broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a >>>month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including
the cost of transport.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 18:09:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>You are correct. Gordon posted it to nz.general, and included a link
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:52:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:You were responding to Gordon. nz.general is the medium, not the
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 13:26:27 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:On your basis, as the article did not directly refer to New Zealand,
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>>>>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the >>>>>grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>>>>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation, >>>>now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of
our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of >>>>the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value
of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event >>>>of a major failure.
So you have now wandered off-topic from Gordon's original post in your >>>haste to introduce political rhetoric to the thread.
it was off topic; my comparing their situation with New Zealand was
making the whole discussion relevant to nz.general.
audience.
It was an example of a pricing structure that does not have to be theAnd I pointed out that our circumstances differ - that is it through
Gordon simply raised an issue of what can happen when solar power >>>suppliers detected oversupply Spain. Not covered in that article was >>>that oversupply is an actual technical requirement because undersupply
is catastrophic - the nature of electricity supply is that generating >>>capacity must always exceed demand or severe damage will occur to >>>generation assets, but in this case oversupply was detected and >>>generation capacity taken offline with dire consequences.
our ability to generate a lot of power through hydro is a significant >>difference.
But he did post it to nz.general - are you claiming that he was
Gordon made no mention of NZ.
off-topic?
Only in your eyes - it was merely a simple description of why we are >>unlikely to have the same problems as Spain, but that we have
Instead you launch into an unrelated diatribe:
different problems.
So why the reference to butter etc later in your post? Pure political >rhetoric.
If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too >>>>much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase >>>>prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling
to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered
without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is >>>>desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often
to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>>>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought >>>>at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree >>>>that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>>>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard >>>>of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but >>>>some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap
battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here
- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>>>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we >>>>are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the
average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>>>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a >>>>broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a >>>>month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>>>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including
the cost of transport.
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 08:50:34 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>Well well, maybe they are different countries with entirely different topology and infrastructure. Do you think that, just possibly, that makes a difference?
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 18:09:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:You are correct. Gordon posted it to nz.general, and included a link
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:52:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:You were responding to Gordon. nz.general is the medium, not the
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 13:26:27 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:On your basis, as the article did not directly refer to New Zealand,
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>>>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>>>>>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the
grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the >>>>>>mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation, >>>>>now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of >>>>>our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of >>>>>the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value >>>>>of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event >>>>>of a major failure.
So you have now wandered off-topic from Gordon's original post in your >>>>haste to introduce political rhetoric to the thread.
it was off topic; my comparing their situation with New Zealand was >>>making the whole discussion relevant to nz.general.
audience.
to an explanation of power grids. New Zealand has a power grid that is >unlikely to experience the same problems as occurred in Spain and part
of France.
No it was a political off-topic excess.It was an example of a pricing structure that does not have to be theAnd I pointed out that our circumstances differ - that is it through
Gordon simply raised an issue of what can happen when solar power >>>>suppliers detected oversupply Spain. Not covered in that article was >>>>that oversupply is an actual technical requirement because undersupply >>>>is catastrophic - the nature of electricity supply is that generating >>>>capacity must always exceed demand or severe damage will occur to >>>>generation assets, but in this case oversupply was detected and >>>>generation capacity taken offline with dire consequences.
our ability to generate a lot of power through hydro is a significant >>>difference.
But he did post it to nz.general - are you claiming that he was >>>off-topic?
Gordon made no mention of NZ.
Only in your eyes - it was merely a simple description of why we are >>>unlikely to have the same problems as Spain, but that we have
Instead you launch into an unrelated diatribe:
different problems.
So why the reference to butter etc later in your post? Pure political >>rhetoric.
same as for electricity but appears to be moving to a similar
structure here. That is not a hopeful sign for problems with our
electricity grid pricing - although it is encouraging a wider use of
solar power.
If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too >>>>>much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase >>>>>prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling >>>>>to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered >>>>>without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is >>>>>desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often >>>>>to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>>>>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought >>>>>at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree >>>>>that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>>>>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard >>>>>of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but >>>>>some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap >>>>>battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here >>>>>- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>>>>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we >>>>>are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the >>>>>average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>>>>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a >>>>>broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a >>>>>month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>>>>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including >>>>>the cost of transport.
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:of infrastructure. The initial article asserts that "Glut of solar
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 08:50:34 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:Well well, maybe they are different countries with entirely different topology >and infrastructure. Do you think that, just possibly, that makes a difference? Of course there are differences between the two countries, and hence
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 18:09:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:You are correct. Gordon posted it to nz.general, and included a link
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:52:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:You were responding to Gordon. nz.general is the medium, not the >>>audience.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 13:26:27 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:On your basis, as the article did not directly refer to New Zealand,
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>>>>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the >>>>>>>solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that the
grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into the
mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation, >>>>>>now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of >>>>>>our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of >>>>>>the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value >>>>>>of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event >>>>>>of a major failure.
So you have now wandered off-topic from Gordon's original post in your >>>>>haste to introduce political rhetoric to the thread.
it was off topic; my comparing their situation with New Zealand was >>>>making the whole discussion relevant to nz.general.
to an explanation of power grids. New Zealand has a power grid that is >>unlikely to experience the same problems as occurred in Spain and part
of France.
Yes you did appear to be trying to get the thread ""Off Track"" - congratulations for realising that looking at the different problemsNo it was a political off-topic excess.
It was an example of a pricing structure that does not have to be theAnd I pointed out that our circumstances differ - that is it through >>>>our ability to generate a lot of power through hydro is a significant >>>>difference.
Gordon simply raised an issue of what can happen when solar power >>>>>suppliers detected oversupply Spain. Not covered in that article was >>>>>that oversupply is an actual technical requirement because undersupply >>>>>is catastrophic - the nature of electricity supply is that generating >>>>>capacity must always exceed demand or severe damage will occur to >>>>>generation assets, but in this case oversupply was detected and >>>>>generation capacity taken offline with dire consequences.
But he did post it to nz.general - are you claiming that he was >>>>off-topic?
Gordon made no mention of NZ.
Only in your eyes - it was merely a simple description of why we are >>>>unlikely to have the same problems as Spain, but that we have
Instead you launch into an unrelated diatribe:
different problems.
So why the reference to butter etc later in your post? Pure political >>>rhetoric.
same as for electricity but appears to be moving to a similar
structure here. That is not a hopeful sign for problems with our >>electricity grid pricing - although it is encouraging a wider use of
solar power.
If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too >>>>>>much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase >>>>>>prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling >>>>>>to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered >>>>>>without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is >>>>>>desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often >>>>>>to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>>>>>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought >>>>>>at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated.
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree >>>>>>that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>>>>>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard >>>>>>of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but >>>>>>some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap >>>>>>battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here >>>>>>- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>>>>>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we >>>>>>are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the >>>>>>average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>>>>>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a >>>>>>broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a >>>>>>month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>>>>>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including >>>>>>the cost of transport.
That is not a hopeful sign for problems with our
electricity grid pricing - although it is encouraging a wider use of
solar power.
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 03:58:48 -0000 (UTC), TonyI was and still am on track, never left it. You did, your lies are legend, your intelligence sets a low bar for mankind, your morals do not register. Altogether you are a waste of air.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:Of course there are differences between the two countries, and hence
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 08:50:34 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:Well well, maybe they are different countries with entirely different >>topology
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 18:09:29 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:You are correct. Gordon posted it to nz.general, and included a link
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 17:52:53 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:You were responding to Gordon. nz.general is the medium, not the >>>>audience.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 13:26:27 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:On your basis, as the article did not directly refer to New Zealand, >>>>>it was off topic; my comparing their situation with New Zealand was >>>>>making the whole discussion relevant to nz.general.
On 22 Jun 2025 23:20:30 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
https://archive.md/8R1hz
This is a report on the power failure in Spain and part of France last >>>>>>>>April.
Net zero arrived in another form when there was a mass switch off of the
solar power as they were generating too much power. True it seems that >>>>>>>>the
grid operator miscalculated the mix and down the grind went.
So at the very least solar (gren) energy does add another issuse into >>>>>>>>the
mix.
An explanation of power grids, a worth while read.
https://archive.md/zV3Rg
We can be thankful that our system is dominated by hydro generation, >>>>>>>now supplemented by geothermal and wind and solar. The structure of >>>>>>>our industry is also different - it is designed to maximise profits of >>>>>>>the generating companies; they are able to revalue the capital value >>>>>>>of their assets, presumably to reflect replacement costs in the event >>>>>>>of a major failure.
So you have now wandered off-topic from Gordon's original post in your >>>>>>haste to introduce political rhetoric to the thread.
to an explanation of power grids. New Zealand has a power grid that is >>>unlikely to experience the same problems as occurred in Spain and part
of France.
and infrastructure. Do you think that, just possibly, that makes a difference?
of infrastructure. The initial article asserts that "Glut of solar
power sent prices plunging, which triggered a mass switch-off,
official report says." So the article was really saying that the
blackouts resulted from suppliers switching off supply, rather than
renewable energy triggering blackouts - it is possible that the
attempt to blame renewable energy appealed to some fr right New
Zealand zealots, whereas in reality the problem was insufficient
balance to ensure that suppliers should not have been able to switch
off supply. Our structural constraints on the industry effectively
protect suppliers from dropping prices; but they do also prevent
consumers from a similar mass switch-off in extreme conditions. Thank
you for confirming that there is relevance, perhaps particularly in
the nz.general discussion group, in comparing the implications of
different structures between our country and those that apply in
Spain. Well done on catching up that this is not "Off track" - that
New Zealand phenomenon applies in quite a different way to the New
Zealand electricity system that appears to be the case in Spain. The
problem was not triggered by "Too much solar power", but by corporate
greed coming before certainty of supply - it was the switch-off that
hurt electricity users, not the fact that it was renewable energy.
Good on you for getting back on track, Tony.
Only to a cretin like you. I did not. but you did.Yes you did appear to be trying to get the thread ""Off Track"" -No it was a political off-topic excess.
It was an example of a pricing structure that does not have to be the >>>same as for electricity but appears to be moving to a similarAnd I pointed out that our circumstances differ - that is it through >>>>>our ability to generate a lot of power through hydro is a significant >>>>>difference.
Gordon simply raised an issue of what can happen when solar power >>>>>>suppliers detected oversupply Spain. Not covered in that article was >>>>>>that oversupply is an actual technical requirement because undersupply >>>>>>is catastrophic - the nature of electricity supply is that generating >>>>>>capacity must always exceed demand or severe damage will occur to >>>>>>generation assets, but in this case oversupply was detected and >>>>>>generation capacity taken offline with dire consequences.
But he did post it to nz.general - are you claiming that he was >>>>>off-topic?
Gordon made no mention of NZ.
Only in your eyes - it was merely a simple description of why we are >>>>>unlikely to have the same problems as Spain, but that we have >>>>>different problems.
Instead you launch into an unrelated diatribe:
So why the reference to butter etc later in your post? Pure political >>>>rhetoric.
structure here. That is not a hopeful sign for problems with our >>>electricity grid pricing - although it is encouraging a wider use of >>>solar power.
congratulations for realising that looking at the different problemsNoit in this thtread, until you took it off track. You are an incorigible little sociopath with delusions of competence.
arising from a different regulatory regime can be informative for both >countries, but that such discussions are particularly relevant to the >nz.general Usenet group.
If hydro lake levels get too high, they can spill
water without generating power, but it is desirable to not have too >>>>>>>much other generation or there would not be the excuse to increase >>>>>>>prices when water levels are low. Transpower does extensive modeling >>>>>>>to be able to show that low levels of generation can be covered >>>>>>>without causing blackouts, but getting close to those levels is >>>>>>>desirable to give a reason for burning coal at Huntly every so often >>>>>>>to get prices higher. . . One thing NAct are very good at is seeing >>>>>>>company profits soar - especially the power companies that were bought >>>>>>>at what is now clear were very low prices when they were floated. >>>>>>>
So we are not likely to have similar problems in New Zealand - I agree >>>>>>>that solar is adding another issue - with some of the new solar in >>>>>>>Northland not necessarily being connected to the grid; I haven't heard >>>>>>>of excess being used to pump water but it is in theory possible, but >>>>>>>some houses in the far north may well purchase relatively cheap >>>>>>>battery storage.
Butter would be a similar (in some respects) issue for consumers here >>>>>>>- maximising profit appears to have become more urgent following the >>>>>>>election of a National-led government; some have claimed that all we >>>>>>>are paying is the same cost as overseas clients - including the >>>>>>>average cost of transport and special formulation and packaging for >>>>>>>overseas markets . . . The story of a baker in Timaru getting a >>>>>>>broker to source alternatives for (from memory) 10 tons of butter a >>>>>>>month) - and finding that at different times cheaper butter could be >>>>>>>purchased from Australia or the United States, even after including >>>>>>>the cost of transport.
On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 10:10:24 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>One advantage of the huge price increases for electricity through the Gentailers and Transpower is that it has made business sense for some
wrote:
That is not a hopeful sign for problems with our
electricity grid pricing - although it is encouraging a wider use of
solar power.
Why would anybody want to do that?
Solar power is a bad idea.
I've worked on enough solar installations to know they will never cut
it.
Storage cost is high, solar panel lifetimes are short and maintenance
costs are horrendous.
Put it on your roof if you must, but to promote it as a large scale >substitute for coal or oil fired power generation is 12 shades of
idiotic.
Bill.
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