The parallels with speeding tickets are obvious, and were mentioned <https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/07/01/harsher-penalties-for-retail-crime-instant-fines-for-shoplifting/>.

But why stop there? Take the parallel further: require everybody to
have a licence to shop. Then you could have not just fines for
shoplifting, but demerit points, with repeated offending leading to
suspension or even cancellation of your licence to shop. That would
teach ’em, wouldn’t it?

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On 2025-07-02, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

The parallels with speeding tickets are obvious, and were mentioned
<https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/07/01/harsher-penalties-for-retail-crime-instant-fines-for-shoplifting/>.

But why stop there? Take the parallel further: require everybody to
have a licence to shop. Then you could have not just fines for
shoplifting, but demerit points, with repeated offending leading to suspension or even cancellation of your licence to shop. That would
teach ’em, wouldn’t it?

The cost of this would outweigh the gains.

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On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 01:18:29 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

The parallels with speeding tickets are obvious, and were mentioned ><https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/07/01/harsher-penalties-for-retail-crime-instant-fines-for-shoplifting/>.

But why stop there? Take the parallel further: require everybody to
have a licence to shop. Then you could have not just fines for
shoplifting, but demerit points, with repeated offending leading to >suspension or even cancellation of your licence to shop. That would
teach ’em, wouldn’t it?

That would be better than the proposed system. Shoplifters won't even
get a criminal record. Stupid idea.

Perhaps these theives could be dealt with using face recognition
technology. If you are caught shoplifting, even once, you go on a
database of shame. All those on that database would not be able to buy
their groceries at the same shops as law abiding people. Instead, they
would only be able to go to special shops where security is tightly
enforced, and that extra security would be funded by fact that
everything for sale there costs twice as much.

It could be completely privately funded. There is no intrinsic
obligation for anyone to sell anything to anybody, or to allow any
individual onto one's private property.

Bill.

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On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 18:27:05 +1200, BR wrote:

Perhaps these theives could be dealt with using face recognition
technology. If you are caught shoplifting, even once, you go on a
database of shame.

Bearing in mind that face-recognition technology is prone to both false- positives and false-negatives.

If you were wrongly put into the no-shop list, how would you get yourself
out again? Would it be a case of guilty until proven innocent?

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On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 07:38:33 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 18:27:05 +1200, BR wrote:

Perhaps these theives could be dealt with using face recognition
technology. If you are caught shoplifting, even once, you go on a
database of shame.

Many supermarkets already use such a system. If face-recognition
identifies a potential shop-lifter, the staff watching the cameras can
contact staff on the floor to watch that person. If they are seen
putting goods in a bag or pocket, they can be watched going through
check-out and if they do not produce the goods can be taken to one
side and questioned, and law enforcement called. Staff are not always
well trained or follow procedures.

Bearing in mind that face-recognition technology is prone to both false- >positives and false-negatives.

If you were wrongly put into the no-shop list, how would you get yourself
out again? Would it be a case of guilty until proven innocent?

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On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 07:38:33 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2025 18:27:05 +1200, BR wrote:

Perhaps these theives could be dealt with using face recognition
technology. If you are caught shoplifting, even once, you go on a
database of shame.

Bearing in mind that face-recognition technology is prone to both false- >positives and false-negatives.

If you were wrongly put into the no-shop list, how would you get yourself
out again? Would it be a case of guilty until proven innocent?

That would be up to the retailer. They have the right to refuse
anybody admission to their premises for any reason, and without
explanation.

Bill.

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On Thu, 03 Jul 2025 10:12:56 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Many supermarkets already use such a system. If face-recognition
identifies a potential shop-lifter, the staff watching the cameras can >contact staff on the floor to watch that person. If they are seen
putting goods in a bag or pocket, they can be watched going through
check-out and if they do not produce the goods can be taken to one
side and questioned, and law enforcement called. Staff are not always
well trained or follow procedures.

So what? If a retailer identifies a potential shoplifter, they need
only refuse them entry. Problem solved.

Bill.

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On Thu, 03 Jul 2025 21:21:33 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jul 2025 10:12:56 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Many supermarkets already use such a system. If face-recognition
identifies a potential shop-lifter, the staff watching the cameras can >>contact staff on the floor to watch that person. If they are seen
putting goods in a bag or pocket, they can be watched going through >>check-out and if they do not produce the goods can be taken to one
side and questioned, and law enforcement called. Staff are not always
well trained or follow procedures.

So what? If a retailer identifies a potential shoplifter, they need
only refuse them entry. Problem solved.

Bill.

With the money going into shoplifting precautions, whatever they do
has as its goal maximising profit. If a shop refused you entry because
you look like someone that shoplifted some time previously, would you
keep trying to enter, or go somewhere else? Small shops often have
photographs of people that have done something to offend, but
supermarkets are more sophisticated.

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On Thu, 03 Jul 2025 22:00:50 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jul 2025 21:21:33 +1200, BR <blah@blah.blah> wrote:

On Thu, 03 Jul 2025 10:12:56 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:

Many supermarkets already use such a system. If face-recognition >>>identifies a potential shop-lifter, the staff watching the cameras can >>>contact staff on the floor to watch that person. If they are seen
putting goods in a bag or pocket, they can be watched going through >>>check-out and if they do not produce the goods can be taken to one
side and questioned, and law enforcement called. Staff are not always >>>well trained or follow procedures.

So what? If a retailer identifies a potential shoplifter, they need
only refuse them entry. Problem solved.

Bill.

With the money going into shoplifting precautions, whatever they do
has as its goal maximising profit. If a shop refused you entry because
you look like someone that shoplifted some time previously, would you
keep trying to enter, or go somewhere else? Small shops often have >photographs of people that have done something to offend, but
supermarkets are more sophisticated.

Obviously the shops can't exist without customers, so how the
retailers would choose to play the game would be entirely up to them.
If such a scheme were ever to be implemented, one would expect the
database of shame to be shared by all retailers, and maybe even the
general public could have read-only access. Yeah, why not?

Bill.

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