The latest in my series of blog posts on convention codes of conduct
covers Readercon. Points discussed include the conflation of good ideas
with requirements, the usual prohibition on saying anything derogatory
about anybody, and mask/vaccination policy.
https://garymcgath.com/wp/readercon-code-of-conduct/
In article <v2kkrb$15g4e$1@dont-email.me>,
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
The latest in my series of blog posts on convention codes of conduct
covers Readercon. Points discussed include the conflation of good ideas
with requirements, the usual prohibition on saying anything derogatory
about anybody, and mask/vaccination policy.
https://garymcgath.com/wp/readercon-code-of-conduct/
As it happens, I was for a while the only person at work who still
masked*, work in this case being live theatre in facilities with up
to 700 people. Coincidentally, I am also the only person on staff
who has not caught covid. For a while there, a significant fraction
of my shifts were me subbing for sick people.
The latest in my series of blog posts on convention codes of conduct covers Readercon. Points discussed include the conflation of good ideas with requirements, the usual prohibition on saying anything derogatory about anybody, and mask/vaccination policy.
https://garymcgath.com/wp/readercon-code-of-conduct/
On Wed, 22 May 2024, James Nicoll wrote:
In article <v2kkrb$15g4e$1@dont-email.me>,
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
The latest in my series of blog posts on convention codes of conduct
covers Readercon. Points discussed include the conflation of good ideas
with requirements, the usual prohibition on saying anything derogatory
about anybody, and mask/vaccination policy.
https://garymcgath.com/wp/readercon-code-of-conduct/
As it happens, I was for a while the only person at work who still
masked*, work in this case being live theatre in facilities with up
to 700 people. Coincidentally, I am also the only person on staff
who has not caught covid. For a while there, a significant fraction
of my shifts were me subbing for sick people.
So? I'm not vaccinated and most people I know who are, have gotten corona
2-3 times more often than I have. Sweden proved scientifically, that the
best way to handle corona was without masks and without restrictions and without forced vaccinations.
On 2024-05-24, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Wed, 22 May 2024, James Nicoll wrote:
In article <v2kkrb$15g4e$1@dont-email.me>,
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
The latest in my series of blog posts on convention codes of conduct
covers Readercon. Points discussed include the conflation of good ideas >>>> with requirements, the usual prohibition on saying anything derogatory >>>> about anybody, and mask/vaccination policy.
https://garymcgath.com/wp/readercon-code-of-conduct/
As it happens, I was for a while the only person at work who still
masked*, work in this case being live theatre in facilities with up
to 700 people. Coincidentally, I am also the only person on staff
who has not caught covid. For a while there, a significant fraction
of my shifts were me subbing for sick people.
So? I'm not vaccinated and most people I know who are, have gotten corona
2-3 times more often than I have. Sweden proved scientifically, that the
best way to handle corona was without masks and without restrictions and
without forced vaccinations.
They did try that but it failed and they fairly quickly followed the same procedures as everyone else.
Lots of people now have their fingers crossed hoping the bird-flu doesn't spread any further.
Ehh incorrect. I lived there and detected no such thing. Bird-flu isn't
even a topic in the news and no one where I live talks about it.
But politicians I'm sure are pining for that power the corona psychosis
gave them, so I'm certain they try hard to push the paranoia.
On 2024-05-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Ehh incorrect. I lived there and detected no such thing. Bird-flu isn't
even a topic in the news and no one where I live talks about it.
It's been found in cattle in several parts of the US and there have been two >cases of transmission from cattle to people. So far no cases of >person-to-person transmission.
On 2024-05-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Ehh incorrect. I lived there and detected no such thing. Bird-flu isn't
even a topic in the news and no one where I live talks about it.
It's been found in cattle in several parts of the US and there have been two cases of transmission from cattle to people. So far no cases of person-to-person transmission.
But politicians I'm sure are pining for that power the corona psychosis
gave them, so I'm certain they try hard to push the paranoia.
I hope they succeed. Americans seem to consistently choose the wrong things to be paranoid about. Covid was a dress-rehearsal that could have gone a lot worse. It doesn't appear that the politicians learned anything from it.
Evidently neither did the antivaxxers.
Corona, by the way, was about as dangerous for my age group as driving a
car. That figure came from the government, so all hysteria was just
nonsense.
On Sat, 25 May 2024, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 2024-05-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Ehh incorrect. I lived there and detected no such thing. Bird-flu isn't even a topic in the news and no one where I live talks about it.
It's been found in cattle in several parts of the US and there have been two
cases of transmission from cattle to people. So far no cases of person-to-person transmission.
2 out of 8 billion. I am so scared! ;) Call me again if we reach one in
two and until then, I won't be bothered.
Corona, by the way, was about as dangerous for my age group as driving a
car. That figure came from the government, so all hysteria was just
nonsense.
I say, protect the old if they want it and let the rest live their lives
as normal, which is what eventually sweden did, which was proven to be the right way. Not limiting peoples freedoms and becoming authoritarian.
But politicians I'm sure are pining for that power the corona psychosis gave them, so I'm certain they try hard to push the paranoia.
I hope they succeed. Americans seem to consistently choose the wrong things to be paranoid about. Covid was a dress-rehearsal that could have gone a lot
worse. It doesn't appear that the politicians learned anything from it.
Evidently neither did the antivaxxers.
Well, they did learn how to build up an authoritarian society and remove
all freedoms, and unless the people wake up, it will be authoritarianism
all the way.
Personally my wifes family were harassing me about the vaccines, but, one
of their friends died due to the vaccine, and then I was transformed from villain to hero, and they stopped taking it. So that was a huge victory!
I also found some nice loop holes in the law that enabled me to travel
mask free during all of corona, which was another win, and secretly many people came up to me asking how I did it.
So the positive is that it is possible to fight the good fight of freedom.
So my advice to you is to seek help for your hypochondria, it lowers your quality of life. Trust me, there is nothing to be worried about, and the
body takes care of 99% of all deseases itself.
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Corona, by the way, was about as dangerous for my age group as driving a
car. That figure came from the government, so all hysteria was just
nonsense.
Dunno, I had several friends who died in the initial Corona outbreak,
before it evolved to be much less harmful. That seeems dangerous enough
to me. Granted, I have quite a few more friends who have died in car accidents, though over a longer time period.
In terms of personal anecdotal experience of death of friends, the most common causes are:
1. The AIDS epidemic of the eighties
2. The War in Vietnam in the seventies
3. Cancer (Various kinds)
4. Auto Accidents (with and without alcohol)
with Covid probably around five or possibly six on the list.
--scott
On Sun, 26 May 2024, Scott Dorsey wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Corona, by the way, was about as dangerous for my age group as driving a >>> car. That figure came from the government, so all hysteria was just
nonsense.
Dunno, I had several friends who died in the initial Corona outbreak,
before it evolved to be much less harmful. That seeems dangerous enough
to me. Granted, I have quite a few more friends who have died in car
accidents, though over a longer time period.
In terms of personal anecdotal experience of death of friends, the most
common causes are:
1. The AIDS epidemic of the eighties
2. The War in Vietnam in the seventies
3. Cancer (Various kinds)
4. Auto Accidents (with and without alcohol)
with Covid probably around five or possibly six on the list.
--scott
Fascinating to see Vietnam on the list. In my case, cancer and various
kinds of heart failures come to mind. Don't know anyone who died of
corona.
In article <e9605ecd-f1f3-abf9-e8c7-6656f5e1266b@example.net>,
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2024, Scott Dorsey wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Corona, by the way, was about as dangerous for my age group as driving a >>>> car. That figure came from the government, so all hysteria was just
nonsense.
Dunno, I had several friends who died in the initial Corona outbreak,
before it evolved to be much less harmful. That seeems dangerous enough >>> to me. Granted, I have quite a few more friends who have died in car
accidents, though over a longer time period.
In terms of personal anecdotal experience of death of friends, the most
common causes are:
1. The AIDS epidemic of the eighties
2. The War in Vietnam in the seventies
3. Cancer (Various kinds)
4. Auto Accidents (with and without alcohol)
with Covid probably around five or possibly six on the list.
--scott
Fascinating to see Vietnam on the list. In my case, cancer and various
kinds of heart failures come to mind. Don't know anyone who died of
corona.
Second cousin, age 27, and my sister in law's mother. In the latter
case the vaccine existed but the profit oriented old age home deemed
it an injudicious use of funds. Significant outbreak and death toll
followed. But hey, more vacancies for boomer retirees!
On May 26, 2024, D wrote
(in article<e9e47a95-a341-04a3-4127-ef741c483bf8@example.net>):
On Sat, 25 May 2024, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 2024-05-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Ehh incorrect. I lived there and detected no such thing. Bird-flu isn't >>>> even a topic in the news and no one where I live talks about it.
It's been found in cattle in several parts of the US and there have been two
cases of transmission from cattle to people. So far no cases of
person-to-person transmission.
2 out of 8 billion. I am so scared! ;) Call me again if we reach one in
two and until then, I won't be bothered.
Corona, by the way, was about as dangerous for my age group as driving a
car. That figure came from the government, so all hysteria was just
nonsense.
one of my nieces died of covid. She was 25. She died before there were any vaccines.
None, zero, of the rest of the family, and there’s a LOT of us, had any problems whatsoever with the vaccine.
Note that I do not work for any government. I was one of the driving forces behind the vaccination policy at work: no vaccine? Cool. Stay out of the building. If you can remote work, carry on. If you can’t, either get
vaccinated or get another job. This is a right to work state, we can fire you
for any reason we want. (Ron DeSatan tried to set things up so that idiots couldn’t, officially, be fired for not getting a vaccination; however, the kind of idiot who refused to vacvinate usually had done something in the past which we could have fired him for but didn’t. Officially, that’s why he was fired, and we have the paperwork going back to before the pandemic to prove it. Kiss my ass, DeSatan.)
You’re perfectly free to not get vaccinated. You’re not free to not get vaccinated and work here.
Perhaps those who passed the Right To Work laws (hint: not Democrats) should have thought things through before ramming the laws through.
I say, protect the old if they want it and let the rest live their lives
as normal, which is what eventually sweden did, which was proven to be the >> right way. Not limiting peoples freedoms and becoming authoritarian.
public health is about the public im general. Not you specifically.
Both my parents were epidemiologists in Africa, the Caribbean, and Latin America. I got to see public health processes up close while growing up. Those who don’t get vaccinated are not welcome near me or any of my family.
Period. Yes, I feel that strongly about it. Yes, I have thrown anti-vax idiots bodily out of my house over this; one idiot went and complained to the cops, who advised him that his right to be an idiot ended at my front door. Be an idiot OUTSIDE. You will be ejected, physically if necessary, if you come inside. This is also a Castle Doctrine state; guess who passed _those_ laws.
But politicians I'm sure are pining for that power the corona psychosis >>>> gave them, so I'm certain they try hard to push the paranoia.
I hope they succeed. Americans seem to consistently choose the wrong things >>> to be paranoid about. Covid was a dress-rehearsal that could have gone a lot
worse. It doesn't appear that the politicians learned anything from it.
Evidently neither did the antivaxxers.
Well, they did learn how to build up an authoritarian society and remove
all freedoms, and unless the people wake up, it will be authoritarianism
all the way.
Personally my wifes family were harassing me about the vaccines, but, one
of their friends died due to the vaccine, and then I was transformed from
villain to hero, and they stopped taking it. So that was a huge victory!
I also found some nice loop holes in the law that enabled me to travel
mask free during all of corona, which was another win, and secretly many
people came up to me asking how I did it.
So the positive is that it is possible to fight the good fight of freedom. >> So my advice to you is to seek help for your hypochondria, it lowers your
quality of life. Trust me, there is nothing to be worried about, and the
body takes care of 99% of all deseases itself.
Bullshit. Real world epidemiology says different. Smallpox, mumps, and measeles conquered the Western Hemisphere for the white man. Yellow fever secured Haitian independence. Beware the Bight of Benin, there’s one that comes out for a hundred went in.
On Sun, 26 May 2024, WolfFan wrote:
On May 26, 2024, D wrote
(in article<e9e47a95-a341-04a3-4127-ef741c483bf8@example.net>):
On Sat, 25 May 2024, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 2024-05-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Ehh incorrect. I lived there and detected no such thing. Bird-flu isn't >>>> even a topic in the news and no one where I live talks about it.
It's been found in cattle in several parts of the US and there have been two
cases of transmission from cattle to people. So far no cases of
person-to-person transmission.
2 out of 8 billion. I am so scared! ;) Call me again if we reach one in
two and until then, I won't be bothered.
Corona, by the way, was about as dangerous for my age group as driving a >> car. That figure came from the government, so all hysteria was just
nonsense.
one of my nieces died of covid. She was 25. She died before there were any vaccines.
Ok. Sad, but there are people who die of bananas, and we don't ban
bananas. In that age group, corona was about as dangerous as driving a
car, so not justifiable to close down the world for a flu.
None, zero, of the rest of the family, and there’s a LOT of us, had any problems whatsoever with the vaccine.
I've heard of many who had problems with vaccines. Also note the double standard. Anyone who died 30 days after corona was a corona victim. If
this would have been applied to the vaccines, you'd see even higher death rates.
Note that I do not work for any government. I was one of the driving forces behind the vaccination policy at work: no vaccine? Cool. Stay out of the building. If you can remote work, carry on. If you can’t, either get
In my company we had the reverse. If you're vaccinated, stay at home. On
the other hand, I Don't hire pro-government hysterical corona people, so
it was pretty much a non-issue. And no one died, which shows that unless you're old, it was mostly psychosomatic.
vaccinated or get another job. This is a right to work state, we can fire you
Let me correct that... let the government foricbly inject you, or else we
let you starve.
That is similar policies to nazi-germany and the soviet union, just so you know.
If the vaccines work, there's no need to be afraid of un-vaccinated, or if you are, you are basically admitting that the vaccines don't work, and
then they are just a charade.
for any reason we want. (Ron DeSatan tried to set things up so that idiots couldn’t, officially, be fired for not getting a vaccination; however, the
kind of idiot who refused to vacvinate usually had done something in the past
which we could have fired him for but didn’t. Officially, that’s why he was fired, and we have the paperwork going back to before the pandemic to prove it. Kiss my ass, DeSatan.)
You’re perfectly free to not get vaccinated. You’re not free to not get vaccinated and work here.
Likewise and reverse. No work for you if you are vaccinated at my company. And this is why a libertarian world is the only way to peace.
Also note the irony, that in my world you are free to vaccinate yourself
if you want, do heavy drugs etc. but in your world, I must subject myself
to medical experiments to be able to participate.
I think that's a pretty authoritarian and sh*tty world view, but I'm glad that you are not the president and I'm glad that the legal system is so
full of loop holes that I was able to travel without a mask and meet the people I could after a bit of legal threatening and arguing. =)
Perhaps those who passed the Right To Work laws (hint: not Democrats) should
have thought things through before ramming the laws through.
I say, protect the old if they want it and let the rest live their lives >> as normal, which is what eventually sweden did, which was proven to be the >> right way. Not limiting peoples freedoms and becoming authoritarian.
public health is about the public im general. Not you specifically.
I don't agree. All there is is individuals, and I have full autonomy and control of my body and no one else. I do not recognize any laws that claim otherwise.
Both my parents were epidemiologists in Africa, the Caribbean, and Latin America. I got to see public health processes up close while growing up. Those who don’t get vaccinated are not welcome near me or any of my family.
Doubt they would ever want to meet you or your family. Btw, do you never
fly or move around in public? I can promise you that there's plenty of non-vaccinated people, so did you realize you could die by going outside
your house?
Period. Yes, I feel that strongly about it. Yes, I have thrown anti-vax idiots bodily out of my house over this; one idiot went and complained to the
cops, who advised him that his right to be an idiot ended at my front door. Be an idiot OUTSIDE. You will be ejected, physically if necessary, if you come inside. This is also a Castle Doctrine state; guess who passed _those_ laws.
Good for you.
But politicians I'm sure are pining for that power the corona psychosis >>>> gave them, so I'm certain they try hard to push the paranoia.
I hope they succeed. Americans seem to consistently choose the wrong things
to be paranoid about. Covid was a dress-rehearsal that could have gone a lot
worse. It doesn't appear that the politicians learned anything from it. >>>
Evidently neither did the antivaxxers.
Well, they did learn how to build up an authoritarian society and remove >> all freedoms, and unless the people wake up, it will be authoritarianism >> all the way.
Personally my wifes family were harassing me about the vaccines, but, one >> of their friends died due to the vaccine, and then I was transformed from >> villain to hero, and they stopped taking it. So that was a huge victory! >>
I also found some nice loop holes in the law that enabled me to travel
mask free during all of corona, which was another win, and secretly many >> people came up to me asking how I did it.
So the positive is that it is possible to fight the good fight of freedom. >> So my advice to you is to seek help for your hypochondria, it lowers your >> quality of life. Trust me, there is nothing to be worried about, and the >> body takes care of 99% of all deseases itself.
Bullshit. Real world epidemiology says different. Smallpox, mumps, and measeles conquered the Western Hemisphere for the white man. Yellow fever secured Haitian independence. Beware the Bight of Benin, there’s one that comes out for a hundred went in.
I am talking about corona, so I will disregard this.
On Sun, 26 May 2024, WolfFan wrote:
On May 26, 2024, D wrote
(in article<e9e47a95-a341-04a3-4127-ef741c483bf8@example.net>):
On Sat, 25 May 2024, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 2024-05-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Ehh incorrect. I lived there and detected no such thing. Bird-flu isn't
even a topic in the news and no one where I live talks about it.
It's been found in cattle in several parts of the US and there have been
two
cases of transmission from cattle to people. So far no cases of person-to-person transmission.
2 out of 8 billion. I am so scared! ;) Call me again if we reach one in two and until then, I won't be bothered.
Corona, by the way, was about as dangerous for my age group as driving a car. That figure came from the government, so all hysteria was just nonsense.
one of my nieces died of covid. She was 25. She died before there were any vaccines.
Ok. Sad, but there are people who die of bananas, and we don't ban
bananas. In that age group, corona was about as dangerous as driving a
car, so not justifiable to close down the world for a flu.
None, zero, of the rest of the family, and there’s a LOT of us, had any problems whatsoever with the vaccine.
I've heard of many who had problems with vaccines.
Also note the double
standard. Anyone who died 30 days after corona was a corona victim. If
this would have been applied to the vaccines, you'd see even higher death rates.
Note that I do not work for any government. I was one of the driving forces behind the vaccination policy at work: no vaccine? Cool. Stay out of the building. If you can remote work, carry on. If you can’t, either get
In my company we had the reverse. If you're vaccinated, stay at home. On
the other hand, I Don't hire pro-government hysterical corona people, so
it was pretty much a non-issue. And no one died, which shows that unless you're old, it was mostly psychosomatic.
vaccinated or get another job. This is a right to work state, we can fire you
Let me correct that... let the government foricbly inject you, or else we
let you starve.
That is similar policies to nazi-germany and the soviet union, just so you know.
If the vaccines work, there's no need to be afraid of un-vaccinated, or if you are, you are basically admitting that the vaccines don't work, and
then they are just a charade.
for any reason we want. (Ron DeSatan tried to set things up so that idiots couldn’t, officially, be fired for not getting a vaccination; however, the
kind of idiot who refused to vacvinate usually had done something in the past
which we could have fired him for but didn’t. Officially, that’s why he was fired, and we have the paperwork going back to before the pandemic to prove it. Kiss my ass, DeSatan.)
You’re perfectly free to not get vaccinated. You’re not free to not get vaccinated and work here.
Likewise and reverse. No work for you if you are vaccinated at my company. And this is why a libertarian world is the only way to peace.
Also note the irony, that in my world you are free to vaccinate yourself
if you want, do heavy drugs etc. but in your world, I must subject myself
to medical experiments to be able to participate.
I think that's a pretty authoritarian and sh*tty world view, but I'm glad that you are not the president and I'm glad that the legal system is so
full of loop holes that I was able to travel without a mask and meet the people I could after a bit of legal threatening and arguing. =)
Perhaps those who passed the Right To Work laws (hint: not Democrats) should
have thought things through before ramming the laws through.
I say, protect the old if they want it and let the rest live their lives as normal, which is what eventually sweden did, which was proven to be the
right way. Not limiting peoples freedoms and becoming authoritarian.
public health is about the public im general. Not you specifically.
I don't agree.
All there is is individuals, and I have full autonomy and
control of my body and no one else. I do not recognize any laws that claim otherwise.
Both my parents were epidemiologists in Africa, the Caribbean, and Latin America. I got to see public health processes up close while growing up. Those who don’t get vaccinated are not welcome near me or any of my family.
Doubt they would ever want to meet you or your family. Btw, do you never
fly or move around in public? I can promise you that there's plenty of non-vaccinated people, so did you realize you could die by going outside
your house?
Period. Yes, I feel that strongly about it. Yes, I have thrown anti-vax idiots bodily out of my house over this; one idiot went and complained to the
cops, who advised him that his right to be an idiot ended at my front door. Be an idiot OUTSIDE. You will be ejected, physically if necessary, if you come inside. This is also a Castle Doctrine state; guess who passed _those_ laws.
Good for you.
But politicians I'm sure are pining for that power the corona psychosis
gave them, so I'm certain they try hard to push the paranoia.
I hope they succeed. Americans seem to consistently choose the wrong things
to be paranoid about. Covid was a dress-rehearsal that could have gone a
lot
worse. It doesn't appear that the politicians learned anything from it.
Evidently neither did the antivaxxers.
Well, they did learn how to build up an authoritarian society and remove all freedoms, and unless the people wake up, it will be authoritarianism all the way.
Personally my wifes family were harassing me about the vaccines, but, one of their friends died due to the vaccine, and then I was transformed from villain to hero, and they stopped taking it. So that was a huge victory!
I also found some nice loop holes in the law that enabled me to travel mask free during all of corona, which was another win, and secretly many people came up to me asking how I did it.
So the positive is that it is possible to fight the good fight of freedom.
So my advice to you is to seek help for your hypochondria, it lowers your quality of life. Trust me, there is nothing to be worried about, and the body takes care of 99% of all deseases itself.
Bullshit. Real world epidemiology says different. Smallpox, mumps, and measeles conquered the Western Hemisphere for the white man. Yellow fever secured Haitian independence. Beware the Bight of Benin, there’s one that comes out for a hundred went in.
I am talking about corona, so I will disregard this.
If something much worse than COVID comes along (like MERS
or SARS cutting loose) we will be very glad the tech exists.
Still, I can see some justification for considering the shot
*slightly* on the experimental side, and am uneasy about the
draconian mandates.
People who object to taking the mRNA vaccine, but do not
object to other vaccines, I have little problem with.
The across the board anti-vaxxers, on the other hand, the
ones who are reponsible for the return of measels, diptheria,
whooping cough, rubella, etc... those people are PERNICIOUS
MORONS who should go live on an isolated island somewhere so
they can only infect each other.
(Talking at YOU, RFKJr.)
On May 27, 2024, D wrote
(in article<6c70bb08-bf62-3bf8-1e39-25eca1609d63@example.net>):
On Sun, 26 May 2024, WolfFan wrote:
On May 26, 2024, D wrote
(in article<e9e47a95-a341-04a3-4127-ef741c483bf8@example.net>):
On Sat, 25 May 2024, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 2024-05-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Ehh incorrect. I lived there and detected no such thing. Bird-flu isn't >>>>>> even a topic in the news and no one where I live talks about it.
It's been found in cattle in several parts of the US and there have been >>>>> two
cases of transmission from cattle to people. So far no cases of
person-to-person transmission.
2 out of 8 billion. I am so scared! ;) Call me again if we reach one in >>>> two and until then, I won't be bothered.
Corona, by the way, was about as dangerous for my age group as driving a >>>> car. That figure came from the government, so all hysteria was just
nonsense.
one of my nieces died of covid. She was 25. She died before there were any >>> vaccines.
Ok. Sad, but there are people who die of bananas, and we don't ban
bananas. In that age group, corona was about as dangerous as driving a
car, so not justifiable to close down the world for a flu.
bloody hell:
1. covid-19 ain’t ‘a flu’
2. the ’Spanish’ flu of 1918, spread from the US because of an idiot American general who didn’t want ‘a flu’ to prevent deploying American troops to Europe, called the Spanish Flu because it was first reported in Spanish newspapers, as American, British, French, and German newspapers were made to shut up for reasons of denying the enemy info during a world war, killed more people than the fighting in WWI. And that was ‘a flu’.
You’re radically ignorant about epidemiology, and proud of it.
None, zero, of the rest of the family, and there’s a LOT of us, had any >>> problems whatsoever with the vaccine.
I've heard of many who had problems with vaccines.
I’ve seen dead bodies because idiots refused to vaccinate.
Also note the double
standard. Anyone who died 30 days after corona was a corona victim. If
this would have been applied to the vaccines, you'd see even higher death
rates.
Bullshit. that’s not how epidemiology works. You are, again, radically ignorant and incredibly proud of that.
Note that I do not work for any government. I was one of the driving forces >>> behind the vaccination policy at work: no vaccine? Cool. Stay out of the >>> building. If you can remote work, carry on. If you can’t, either get
In my company we had the reverse. If you're vaccinated, stay at home. On
the other hand, I Don't hire pro-government hysterical corona people, so
it was pretty much a non-issue. And no one died, which shows that unless
you're old, it was mostly psychosomatic.
Bullshit. You can’t possibly enforce that. With us, we merely request to see the vaccination card. No card? You better have a good reason. “I lost it” means “get a duplicate”. “I don’t want to get vaccinated” is not a good reason. All that would be necessary for someone who got vaccinated to keep working there (God knows why they’d want to hang around with idiots) is to simply not show you their card. How would you find out that they lied?
It’s not just bullshit, it’s transparently obvious bullshit which NEVER HAPPENED. You’re not just an idiot, you think that everyone’s as stupids as you are.
vaccinated or get another job. This is a right to work state, we can fire >>> you
Let me correct that... let the government foricbly inject you, or else we
let you starve.
not the government, idiot. I got my vaccinations from Walgreens. A private company.
That is similar policies to nazi-germany and the soviet union, just so you >> know.
Bullshit.
If the vaccines work, there's no need to be afraid of un-vaccinated, or if >> you are, you are basically admitting that the vaccines don't work, and
then they are just a charade.
Bullshit. Not all can take vaccinations. Vaccinations are not 100% effective. If you had even slight knowledge of epidemiology you would know this. You’re breathtakingly ignorant, and proud of it.
for any reason we want. (Ron DeSatan tried to set things up so that idiots >>> couldn’t, officially, be fired for not getting a vaccination; however, the
kind of idiot who refused to vacvinate usually had done something in the >>> past
which we could have fired him for but didn’t. Officially, that’s why he >>> was fired, and we have the paperwork going back to before the pandemic to >>> prove it. Kiss my ass, DeSatan.)
You’re perfectly free to not get vaccinated. You’re not free to not get >>> vaccinated and work here.
Likewise and reverse. No work for you if you are vaccinated at my company. >> And this is why a libertarian world is the only way to peace.
Bullshit. you can’t possibly identify those who got vaccinated. I can identify those who did not. Typically they will self-identify; that is how I found out about two anti-vaxxers who were visiting my house, one of whom had to be physically ejected and tried to call the cops. They were pig-ignorant buffoons, and loud about it.
Also note the irony, that in my world you are free to vaccinate yourself
if you want, do heavy drugs etc. but in your world, I must subject myself
to medical experiments to be able to participate.
I think that's a pretty authoritarian and sh*tty world view, but I'm glad
that you are not the president and I'm glad that the legal system is so
full of loop holes that I was able to travel without a mask and meet the
people I could after a bit of legal threatening and arguing. =)
Perhaps those who passed the Right To Work laws (hint: not Democrats) should
have thought things through before ramming the laws through.
I say, protect the old if they want it and let the rest live their lives >>>> as normal, which is what eventually sweden did, which was proven to be the >>>> right way. Not limiting peoples freedoms and becoming authoritarian.
public health is about the public im general. Not you specifically.
I don't agree.
your agreement is not necessary. Public health is about the public in general. It’s right there on the label.
All there is is individuals, and I have full autonomy and
control of my body and no one else. I do not recognize any laws that claim >> otherwise.
you have full autonomy as long as you’re not near me.
Both my parents were epidemiologists in Africa, the Caribbean, and Latin >>> America. I got to see public health processes up close while growing up. >>> Those who don’t get vaccinated are not welcome near me or any of my
family.
Doubt they would ever want to meet you or your family. Btw, do you never
fly or move around in public? I can promise you that there's plenty of
non-vaccinated people, so did you realize you could die by going outside
your house?
Period. Yes, I feel that strongly about it. Yes, I have thrown anti-vax
idiots bodily out of my house over this; one idiot went and complained to >>> the
cops, who advised him that his right to be an idiot ended at my front door. >>> Be an idiot OUTSIDE. You will be ejected, physically if necessary, if you >>> come inside. This is also a Castle Doctrine state; guess who passed _those_ >>> laws.
Good for you.
damn straight
But politicians I'm sure are pining for that power the corona psychosis >>>>>> gave them, so I'm certain they try hard to push the paranoia.
I hope they succeed. Americans seem to consistently choose the wrong >>>>> things
to be paranoid about. Covid was a dress-rehearsal that could have gone a >>>>> lot
worse. It doesn't appear that the politicians learned anything from it. >>>>>
Evidently neither did the antivaxxers.
Well, they did learn how to build up an authoritarian society and remove >>>> all freedoms, and unless the people wake up, it will be authoritarianism >>>> all the way.
Personally my wifes family were harassing me about the vaccines, but, one >>>> of their friends died due to the vaccine, and then I was transformed from >>>> villain to hero, and they stopped taking it. So that was a huge victory! >>>>
I also found some nice loop holes in the law that enabled me to travel >>>> mask free during all of corona, which was another win, and secretly many >>>> people came up to me asking how I did it.
So the positive is that it is possible to fight the good fight of freedom. >>>> So my advice to you is to seek help for your hypochondria, it lowers your >>>> quality of life. Trust me, there is nothing to be worried about, and the >>>> body takes care of 99% of all deseases itself.
Bullshit. Real world epidemiology says different. Smallpox, mumps, and
measeles conquered the Western Hemisphere for the white man. Yellow fever >>> secured Haitian independence. Beware the Bight of Benin, there’s one that >>> comes out for a hundred went in.
I am talking about corona, so I will disregard this.
Bullshit. you stated that ’the body takes care of 99% of all dieases itself’. That’s utter stupidity. Infectious diseases are called that for a reason. The Black Death killed one third of Europe. The Red Death killed one quarter of Justinian’s Empire. Smallpox, mumps, and measles killed up to 90% of the mesoamerican population. Rabies is STILL fatal to those who don’t get the proper treatment quickly. There is a VERY LONG list of diseases that the human body will nor defend against without artificial assistance. You’re pig-ignorant, and proud. And wrong.
The across the board anti-vaxxers, on the other hand, the
ones who are reponsible for the return of measels, diptheria,
whooping cough, rubella, etc... those people are PERNICIOUS
MORONS who should go live on an isolated island somewhere so
they can only infect each other.
If that was not possible, would you like them to be killed?
Ok. Sad, but there are people who die of bananas, and we don't ban
bananas. In that age group, corona was about as dangerous as driving a
car, so not justifiable to close down the world for a flu.
bloody hell:
1. covid-19 ain’t ‘a flu’
In article <0001HW.2C0541490026A28F70000C14238F@news.supernews.com>,
WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
Ok. Sad, but there are people who die of bananas, and we don't ban
bananas. In that age group, corona was about as dangerous as driving a
car, so not justifiable to close down the world for a flu.
bloody hell:
1. covid-19 ain’t ‘a flu’
Don't discount "flu". (You did mention the example of the
"Spanish Flu" of WWI.)
The "bird flu" that is starting to transmit to cattle, for
instance... There's no human-to-human transmission (yet)
but about 900 people have caught it from cattle.
And half of them died of it.
If this thread ever gets back to convention codes of conduct,
someone ping me. I've skipped over most of it.
What mRNA brings to the table is the ability to create a
vaccine for a novel pathogen quickly, in weeks, rather than
months or years.
This is so hugely valuable a technology that
I was perfectly happy to be part of the large-scale trials.
At 66, I was in the "starting to be at risk" population for
COVID. Two Moderna shots, and every booster that was offered.
I have never gotten COVID, unless it was asymptomatic or one
of those "minor cold" things I've gotten once or twice since
the pandemic. When I did take a COVID test, it was negative.
If something much worse than COVID comes along (like MERS
or SARS cutting loose) we will be very glad the tech exists.
Still, I can see some justification for considering the shot
*slightly* on the experimental side, and am uneasy about the
draconian mandates.
On Mon, 27 May 2024, WolfFan wrote:
On May 27, 2024, D wrote
(in article<6c70bb08-bf62-3bf8-1e39-25eca1609d63@example.net>):
On Sun, 26 May 2024, WolfFan wrote:
On May 26, 2024, D wrote
(in article<e9e47a95-a341-04a3-4127-ef741c483bf8@example.net>):
On Sat, 25 May 2024, Bernard Peek wrote:
On 2024-05-25, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Ehh incorrect. I lived there and detected no such thing. Bird-flu isn't
even a topic in the news and no one where I live talks about it.
It's been found in cattle in several parts of the US and there have been
two
cases of transmission from cattle to people. So far no cases of person-to-person transmission.
2 out of 8 billion. I am so scared! ;) Call me again if we reach one in
two and until then, I won't be bothered.
Corona, by the way, was about as dangerous for my age group as driving a
car. That figure came from the government, so all hysteria was just nonsense.
one of my nieces died of covid. She was 25. She died before there were any
vaccines.
Ok. Sad, but there are people who die of bananas, and we don't ban bananas. In that age group, corona was about as dangerous as driving a car, so not justifiable to close down the world for a flu.
bloody hell:
1. covid-19 ain’t ‘a flu’
2. the ’Spanish’ flu of 1918, spread from the US because of an idiot American general who didn’t want ‘a flu’ to prevent deploying American
troops to Europe, called the Spanish Flu because it was first reported in Spanish newspapers, as American, British, French, and German newspapers were
made to shut up for reasons of denying the enemy info during a world war, killed more people than the fighting in WWI. And that was ‘a flu’.
You’re radically ignorant about epidemiology, and proud of it.
None, zero, of the rest of the family, and there’s a LOT of us, had any
problems whatsoever with the vaccine.
I've heard of many who had problems with vaccines.
I’ve seen dead bodies because idiots refused to vaccinate.
Also note the double
standard. Anyone who died 30 days after corona was a corona victim. If this would have been applied to the vaccines, you'd see even higher death rates.
Bullshit. that’s not how epidemiology works. You are, again, radically ignorant and incredibly proud of that.
Note that I do not work for any government. I was one of the driving forces
behind the vaccination policy at work: no vaccine? Cool. Stay out of the
building. If you can remote work, carry on. If you can’t, either get
In my company we had the reverse. If you're vaccinated, stay at home. On the other hand, I Don't hire pro-government hysterical corona people, so it was pretty much a non-issue. And no one died, which shows that unless you're old, it was mostly psychosomatic.
Bullshit. You can’t possibly enforce that. With us, we merely request to see the vaccination card. No card? You better have a good reason. “I lost it” means “get a duplicate”. “I don’t want to get vaccinated” is
not a good reason. All that would be necessary for someone who got vaccinated
to keep working there (God knows why they’d want to hang around with idiots) is to simply not show you their card. How would you find out that they lied?
It’s not just bullshit, it’s transparently obvious bullshit which NEVER HAPPENED. You’re not just an idiot, you think that everyone’s as stupids
as you are.
vaccinated or get another job. This is a right to work state, we can fire
you
Let me correct that... let the government foricbly inject you, or else we let you starve.
not the government, idiot. I got my vaccinations from Walgreens. A private company.
That is similar policies to nazi-germany and the soviet union, just so you
know.
Bullshit.
If the vaccines work, there's no need to be afraid of un-vaccinated, or if
you are, you are basically admitting that the vaccines don't work, and then they are just a charade.
Bullshit. Not all can take vaccinations. Vaccinations are not 100% effective.
If you had even slight knowledge of epidemiology you would know this. You’re breathtakingly ignorant, and proud of it.
for any reason we want. (Ron DeSatan tried to set things up so that idiots
couldn’t, officially, be fired for not getting a vaccination; however,
the
kind of idiot who refused to vacvinate usually had done something in the
past
which we could have fired him for but didn’t. Officially, that’s why
he
was fired, and we have the paperwork going back to before the pandemic to
prove it. Kiss my ass, DeSatan.)
You’re perfectly free to not get vaccinated. You’re not free to not get
vaccinated and work here.
Likewise and reverse. No work for you if you are vaccinated at my company.
And this is why a libertarian world is the only way to peace.
Bullshit. you can’t possibly identify those who got vaccinated. I can identify those who did not. Typically they will self-identify; that is how I
found out about two anti-vaxxers who were visiting my house, one of whom had
to be physically ejected and tried to call the cops. They were pig-ignorant buffoons, and loud about it.
Also note the irony, that in my world you are free to vaccinate yourself if you want, do heavy drugs etc. but in your world, I must subject myself to medical experiments to be able to participate.
I think that's a pretty authoritarian and sh*tty world view, but I'm glad that you are not the president and I'm glad that the legal system is so full of loop holes that I was able to travel without a mask and meet the people I could after a bit of legal threatening and arguing. =)
Perhaps those who passed the Right To Work laws (hint: not Democrats) should
have thought things through before ramming the laws through.
I say, protect the old if they want it and let the rest live their lives
as normal, which is what eventually sweden did, which was proven to be
the
right way. Not limiting peoples freedoms and becoming authoritarian.
public health is about the public im general. Not you specifically.
I don't agree.
your agreement is not necessary. Public health is about the public in general. It’s right there on the label.
All there is is individuals, and I have full autonomy and
control of my body and no one else. I do not recognize any laws that claim
otherwise.
you have full autonomy as long as you’re not near me.
Both my parents were epidemiologists in Africa, the Caribbean, and Latin
America. I got to see public health processes up close while growing up.
Those who don’t get vaccinated are not welcome near me or any of my family.
Doubt they would ever want to meet you or your family. Btw, do you never fly or move around in public? I can promise you that there's plenty of non-vaccinated people, so did you realize you could die by going outside your house?
Period. Yes, I feel that strongly about it. Yes, I have thrown anti-vax idiots bodily out of my house over this; one idiot went and complained to
the
cops, who advised him that his right to be an idiot ended at my front door.
Be an idiot OUTSIDE. You will be ejected, physically if necessary, if you
come inside. This is also a Castle Doctrine state; guess who passed _those_
laws.
Good for you.
damn straight
But politicians I'm sure are pining for that power the corona psychosis
gave them, so I'm certain they try hard to push the paranoia.
I hope they succeed. Americans seem to consistently choose the wrong
things
to be paranoid about. Covid was a dress-rehearsal that could have gone a
lot
worse. It doesn't appear that the politicians learned anything from it.
Evidently neither did the antivaxxers.
Well, they did learn how to build up an authoritarian society and remove
all freedoms, and unless the people wake up, it will be authoritarianism
all the way.
Personally my wifes family were harassing me about the vaccines, but, one
of their friends died due to the vaccine, and then I was transformed from
villain to hero, and they stopped taking it. So that was a huge victory!
I also found some nice loop holes in the law that enabled me to travel
mask free during all of corona, which was another win, and secretly many
people came up to me asking how I did it.
So the positive is that it is possible to fight the good fight of freedom.
So my advice to you is to seek help for your hypochondria, it lowers your
quality of life. Trust me, there is nothing to be worried about, and the
body takes care of 99% of all deseases itself.
Bullshit. Real world epidemiology says different. Smallpox, mumps, and measeles conquered the Western Hemisphere for the white man. Yellow fever
secured Haitian independence. Beware the Bight of Benin, there’s one that
comes out for a hundred went in.
I am talking about corona, so I will disregard this.
Bullshit. you stated that ’the body takes care of 99% of all dieases itself’. That’s utter stupidity. Infectious diseases are called that forNice trick! Not talking spanish flu, try again. ;)
a reason. The Black Death killed one third of Europe. The Red Death killed one quarter of Justinian’s Empire. Smallpox, mumps, and measles killed up to 90% of the mesoamerican population. Rabies is STILL fatal to those who don’t get the proper treatment quickly. There is a VERY LONG list of diseases that the human body will nor defend against without artificial assistance. You’re pig-ignorant, and proud. And wrong.
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
If this thread ever gets back to convention codes of conduct,
someone ping me. I've skipped over most of it.
Volume here is low enough, why not read everything? (Except the
Dr. Who verbal diarrhea of course.)
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Wed, 29 May 2024, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
If this thread ever gets back to convention codes of conduct,
someone ping me. I've skipped over most of it.
Volume here is low enough, why not read everything? (Except the
Dr. Who verbal diarrhea of course.)
I think the thread has lost its moment, due to the magical "meeting of
minds" and growing of empathy that so often occurs on usenet! ;)
Ive noticed a growing trend of people who reject formal expertise
and rigorous, data based knowledge development, instead loudly
espousing ill informed, unsupported positions, mostly obtained
from social media. D is certainly an example of this, but it happens
to a lot of people, in areas in which they aren't experts themselves.
It's a disheartening phenomenon.
I think it makes people feel 'smart', that they have a special handle on what's going on, even when it's based on demonstrable idiocies.
Social media enable this, allowing every crackpot to find a community
of the equally cracked.
Pt
Ive noticed a growing trend of people who reject formal expertise...
and rigorous, data based knowledge development, instead loudly
espousing ill informed, unsupported positions, mostly obtained
from social media.
I think it makes people feel 'smart', that they have a special handle on what's going on, even when it's based on demonstrable idiocies.
The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a
mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if
it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty
feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times
measured in hours.
In article <lbr238Fa73cU1@mid.individual.net>,
Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a
mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if
it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty
feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times
measured in hours.
One of the big problems preventing early measures from being
taken was believing a word that came from the ChiCom regime.
The WHO basically parroted whatever they said about no
human-to-human transmission, etc., until it became impossible
to ignore. The rest of the world needs to recognize that
totalitarian despots lie.
In article <lbr238Fa73cU1@mid.individual.net>,
Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a
mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if
it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty
feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times
measured in hours.
One of the big problems preventing early measures from being
taken was believing a word that came from the ChiCom regime.
The WHO basically parroted whatever they said about no
human-to-human transmission, etc., until it became impossible
to ignore. The rest of the world needs to recognize that
totalitarian despots lie.
On 6/5/2024 1:30 AM, D wrote:
On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
In article <lbr238Fa73cU1@mid.individual.net>,
Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a
mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if
it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty
feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times
measured in hours.
One of the big problems preventing early measures from being
taken was believing a word that came from the ChiCom regime.
The WHO basically parroted whatever they said about no
human-to-human transmission, etc., until it became impossible
to ignore. The rest of the world needs to recognize that
totalitarian despots lie.
True. With response time in hours, the world economy would collapse
multiple times given how many fake scares we would have.
The best option would have been, like sweden, to issue some recommendations >> to protect the old and do absolutely nothing.
But boy was the international community angry with sweden for showing that >> no lock downs were necessary and neither were masks. They destroyed
completely any credibility the rest of the worlds politicians had! =)
I see the numbers (source: worldmeters.info) https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Sweden: 2.682 deaths per million
US 3,642
But Sweden is hardly the best.
France: 2,556 (fierce lockdown there)
Germany: 2,182 (ditto)
Ireland: 1,891
Norway: 1,024
nor is the US the worst:
Bulgaria: 5,661
Hungary: 5,106
Someday, there will be a thorough comparison of the various
strategies, what worked, what didn't.
If lockdowns and masks didn't help, what did? Why was the
US so much worse than, say, Ireland? Why did Sweden have
double the death rate of Norway?
pt
On 6/20/2024 4:07 AM, D wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 6/5/2024 1:30 AM, D wrote:
On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
In article <lbr238Fa73cU1@mid.individual.net>,
Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a
mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if
it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty
feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times
measured in hours.
One of the big problems preventing early measures from being
taken was believing a word that came from the ChiCom regime.
The WHO basically parroted whatever they said about no
human-to-human transmission, etc., until it became impossible
to ignore. The rest of the world needs to recognize that
totalitarian despots lie.
True. With response time in hours, the world economy would collapse
multiple times given how many fake scares we would have.
The best option would have been, like sweden, to issue some
recommendations to protect the old and do absolutely nothing.
But boy was the international community angry with sweden for showing
that no lock downs were necessary and neither were masks. They destroyed >>>> completely any credibility the rest of the worlds politicians had! =)
I see the numbers (source: worldmeters.info)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Sweden: 2.682 deaths per million
US 3,642
But Sweden is hardly the best.
France: 2,556 (fierce lockdown there)
Germany: 2,182 (ditto)
Ireland: 1,891
Norway: 1,024
nor is the US the worst:
Bulgaria: 5,661
Hungary: 5,106
Someday, there will be a thorough comparison of the various
strategies, what worked, what didn't.
If lockdowns and masks didn't help, what did? Why was the
US so much worse than, say, Ireland? Why did Sweden have
double the death rate of Norway?
pt
Let's look at excess mortality, then we talk.
There's a venerable method of evading discussion
of a questionable Internet claim by refusing
discussion unless some form of evidence which is
thought difficult to obtain is first supplied.
I feel like that's the case here. Why is Covid death
rate not a valid metric? Why is excess deaths better?
At any rate, it's actually not difficult to obtain
excess death data, if your google-foo is adequate:
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
On the graph, click 'Edit countries and regions',
and you can compare countries against each other.
I've captured a chart for Norway and Sweden. It's
here: https://imgur.com/P9rXFWc
Sweden has two huge peaks of excess deaths, compared
to Norway, in the early part of the pandemic. Norway
has one in late 2021. Otherwise they track fairly
closely.
So again: What was Norway doing different than Sweden
that saved so many lives?
Curiously, at the end of data (Dec 2023), Sweden
has a lot more excess deaths than the US.
pt
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 6/20/2024 4:07 AM, D wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 6/5/2024 1:30 AM, D wrote:
I see the numbers (source: worldmeters.info)
On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
In article <lbr238Fa73cU1@mid.individual.net>,
Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a
mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if
it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty
feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times
measured in hours.
One of the big problems preventing early measures from being
taken was believing a word that came from the ChiCom regime.
The WHO basically parroted whatever they said about no
human-to-human transmission, etc., until it became impossible
to ignore. The rest of the world needs to recognize that
totalitarian despots lie.
True. With response time in hours, the world economy would collapse >>>>>> multiple times given how many fake scares we would have.
The best option would have been, like sweden, to issue some
recommendations to protect the old and do absolutely nothing.
But boy was the international community angry with sweden for showing >>>>>> that no lock downs were necessary and neither were masks. They destroyed >>>>>> completely any credibility the rest of the worlds politicians had! =) >>>>>
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Sweden: 2.682 deaths per million
US 3,642
But Sweden is hardly the best.
France: 2,556 (fierce lockdown there)
Germany: 2,182 (ditto)
Ireland: 1,891
Norway: 1,024
nor is the US the worst:
Bulgaria: 5,661
Hungary: 5,106
Someday, there will be a thorough comparison of the various
strategies, what worked, what didn't.
If lockdowns and masks didn't help, what did? Why was the
US so much worse than, say, Ireland? Why did Sweden have
double the death rate of Norway?
pt
Let's look at excess mortality, then we talk.
There's a venerable method of evading discussion
of a questionable Internet claim by refusing
discussion unless some form of evidence which is
thought difficult to obtain is first supplied.
I feel like that's the case here. Why is Covid death
rate not a valid metric? Why is excess deaths better?
At any rate, it's actually not difficult to obtain
excess death data, if your google-foo is adequate:
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
On the graph, click 'Edit countries and regions',
and you can compare countries against each other.
I've captured a chart for Norway and Sweden. It's
here: https://imgur.com/P9rXFWc
Sweden has two huge peaks of excess deaths, compared
to Norway, in the early part of the pandemic. Norway
has one in late 2021. Otherwise they track fairly
closely.
So again: What was Norway doing different than Sweden
that saved so many lives?
Curiously, at the end of data (Dec 2023), Sweden
has a lot more excess deaths than the US.
pt
Let me show you this instead...
https://www.europaportalen.se/2023/03/sverige-hade-lagsta-overdodligheten-under-coronapandemin-i-eu
The graph shows the percentage change between the average number of deaths >> per year for 2017-2019 and the average for 2020-2022.
Again, I ask you, what did Norway do right, and Sweden do wrong, to have more
than twice the deaths per,population?
Pt
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 6/20/2024 4:07 AM, D wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 6/5/2024 1:30 AM, D wrote:
I see the numbers (source: worldmeters.info)
On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
In article <lbr238Fa73cU1@mid.individual.net>,
Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a
mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if >>>>>>>>>> it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty
feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times
measured in hours.
One of the big problems preventing early measures from being >>>>>>>>> taken was believing a word that came from the ChiCom regime. >>>>>>>>> The WHO basically parroted whatever they said about no
human-to-human transmission, etc., until it became impossible >>>>>>>>> to ignore. The rest of the world needs to recognize that
totalitarian despots lie.
True. With response time in hours, the world economy would collapse >>>>>>>> multiple times given how many fake scares we would have.
The best option would have been, like sweden, to issue some
recommendations to protect the old and do absolutely nothing.
But boy was the international community angry with sweden for showing >>>>>>>> that no lock downs were necessary and neither were masks. They destroyed
completely any credibility the rest of the worlds politicians had! =) >>>>>>>
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Sweden: 2.682 deaths per million
US 3,642
But Sweden is hardly the best.
France: 2,556 (fierce lockdown there)
Germany: 2,182 (ditto)
Ireland: 1,891
Norway: 1,024
nor is the US the worst:
Bulgaria: 5,661
Hungary: 5,106
Someday, there will be a thorough comparison of the various
strategies, what worked, what didn't.
If lockdowns and masks didn't help, what did? Why was the
US so much worse than, say, Ireland? Why did Sweden have
double the death rate of Norway?
pt
Let's look at excess mortality, then we talk.
There's a venerable method of evading discussion
of a questionable Internet claim by refusing
discussion unless some form of evidence which is
thought difficult to obtain is first supplied.
I feel like that's the case here. Why is Covid death
rate not a valid metric? Why is excess deaths better?
At any rate, it's actually not difficult to obtain
excess death data, if your google-foo is adequate:
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
On the graph, click 'Edit countries and regions',
and you can compare countries against each other.
I've captured a chart for Norway and Sweden. It's
here: https://imgur.com/P9rXFWc
Sweden has two huge peaks of excess deaths, compared
to Norway, in the early part of the pandemic. Norway
has one in late 2021. Otherwise they track fairly
closely.
So again: What was Norway doing different than Sweden
that saved so many lives?
Curiously, at the end of data (Dec 2023), Sweden
has a lot more excess deaths than the US.
pt
Let me show you this instead...
https://www.europaportalen.se/2023/03/sverige-hade-lagsta-overdodligheten-under-coronapandemin-i-eu
The graph shows the percentage change between the average number of deaths >>>> per year for 2017-2019 and the average for 2020-2022.
Again, I ask you, what did Norway do right, and Sweden do wrong, to have >>> more
than twice the deaths per,population?
Pt
That's completely irrelevant. Excessmortality is the name of the game.
Fine. Look at the excess mortality chart I linked on Imgur. Why does Sweden have such huge peaks of excess mortality, compared to Norway, in early
2020 and early 2021? What did Sweden do wrong, or Norway do right?
The data is right there. Answer the question.
Pt
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