On 3/27/2025 7:42 AM, Ian J. Ball wrote:

Apparently, within the last day, Zap2It's TV listing site is gone - it
now directs to a NewsNation schedule (which nobody wants!).

For now, it seems to still exist on Gracenote:

https://tvlistings.gracenote.com/grid-affiliates.html?aid=lat

But who knows how long this will last...

FTR, TitanTV's guide also still exists:

https://www.titantv.com/

But they're another one that I wonder how much longer they can survive...

So, are we soon heading to a time when online TV schedule guides no
longer exist?!!...

Saw that last night. Will try gracenote for zap2it, I was using that on
my phone, titan on the laptop.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Apparently, within the last day, Zap2It's TV listing site is gone - it
now directs to a NewsNation schedule (which nobody wants!).

For now, it seems to still exist on Gracenote:

https://tvlistings.gracenote.com/grid-affiliates.html?aid=lat

But who knows how long this will last...

FTR, TitanTV's guide also still exists:

https://www.titantv.com/

But they're another one that I wonder how much longer they can survive...

So, are we soon heading to a time when online TV schedule guides no
longer exist?!!...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-03-27 10:42 AM, Ian J. Ball wrote:

Apparently, within the last day, Zap2It's TV listing site is gone - it
now directs to a NewsNation schedule (which nobody wants!).

For now, it seems to still exist on Gracenote:

https://tvlistings.gracenote.com/grid-affiliates.html?aid=lat

But who knows how long this will last...

FTR, TitanTV's guide also still exists:

https://www.titantv.com/

But they're another one that I wonder how much longer they can survive...

So, are we soon heading to a time when online TV schedule guides no
longer exist?!!...

I find that very strange. As a consumer of TV - as most of us are - I
would think TV listings would be a fundamental aspect of the TV
experience. After all, unless you're someone who merely uses TV as a
source of background noise as you go about your time at home and you
don't actually care what's on, you're probably going to want to know
what's on and when so that you can watch it (or set your PVR to record
it for you). If no one publishes listings, you're left to just flip the channels until something catches your eye.

Could it be that the cable companies and streaming services are
gradually buying these listings services to shut them down so that their customers don't even see - and maybe don't even know about - competing
shows? It would be interesting to contact zap2it to see why they stopped producing listings. Were they having trouble getting information about
what was on? Were they finding that almost no one used the service so
they couldn't justify the cost?

Some years ago, I actually toyed with the idea of starting such a
service myself. I never did it but I could definitely see a market for a reliable way to find out what's available to watch on whatever cable or satellite or streaming services that people used. In fact, I still toy
with it. I would love to make definitive listings of every show on every
cable, satellite or streaming service in any language around the world
so that people could find out what's on wherever they are. Wouldn't that
be a cool and useful service? It ought to get use wherever people watch
TV, which is pretty much everywhere.


--
Rhino

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 08:05:01 -0700, suzeeq <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote:

On 3/27/2025 7:42 AM, Ian J. Ball wrote:

Apparently, within the last day, Zap2It's TV listing site is gone - it
now directs to a NewsNation schedule (which nobody wants!).

For now, it seems to still exist on Gracenote:

https://tvlistings.gracenote.com/grid-affiliates.html?aid=lat

But who knows how long this will last...

FTR, TitanTV's guide also still exists:

https://www.titantv.com/

But they're another one that I wonder how much longer they can survive...

So, are we soon heading to a time when online TV schedule guides no
longer exist?!!...

Saw that last night. Will try gracenote for zap2it, I was using that on
my phone, titan on the laptop.

LOL. It looks like that NewsNation site is using Gracenote for their
schedule information.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Ian J. Ball <ijball@mac.invalid> wrote:

Apparently, within the last day, Zap2It's TV listing site is gone - it
now directs to a NewsNation schedule (which nobody wants!).

Here's where it was first reported:

https://www.distractify.com/p/what-happened-to-zap2it-tv-listings

There used to be two major listing services, Trib and TVGuide. No
programming source gave his listings directly to cable or TiVo. Zap2It
used to be Trib listings but who knows since Nexstar. If Trib listings
provided to cable is no longer a sister company to Zap2It, then that's
an additional cost to Nexstar. If Nexstar owns it, then we're talking
about the minor cost of operating the Web site that ads should have been
able to cover.

For now, it seems to still exist on Gracenote:

https://tvlistings.gracenote.com/grid-affiliates.html?aid=lat

But who knows how long this will last...

FTR, TitanTV's guide also still exists:

https://www.titantv.com/

But they're another one that I wonder how much longer they can survive...

So, are we soon heading to a time when online TV schedule guides no
longer exist?!!...

I don't see how a DVR can be conveniently controlled without listings.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

Ian J. Ball <ijball@mac.invalid> wrote:

Apparently, within the last day, Zap2It's TV listing site is gone - it
now directs to a NewsNation schedule (which nobody wants!).

Here's where it was first reported:

https://www.distractify.com/p/what-happened-to-zap2it-tv-listings

There used to be two major listing services, Trib and TVGuide. No
programming source gave his listings directly to cable or TiVo. Zap2It
used to be Trib listings but who knows since Nexstar. If Trib listings provided to cable is no longer a sister company to Zap2It, then that's
an additional cost to Nexstar. If Nexstar owns it, then we're talking
about the minor cost of operating the Web site that ads should have been
able to cover.

For now, it seems to still exist on Gracenote:

https://tvlistings.gracenote.com/grid-affiliates.html?aid=lat

But who knows how long this will last...

FTR, TitanTV's guide also still exists:

https://www.titantv.com/

But they're another one that I wonder how much longer they can survive...

So, are we soon heading to a time when online TV schedule guides no
longer exist?!!...

I don't see how a DVR can be conveniently controlled without listings.

If you had Cox cable, you would see how a DVR can’t be conveniently controlled even with listings.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2025-03-27 10:42 AM, Ian J. Ball wrote:

Apparently, within the last day, Zap2It's TV listing site is gone - it
now directs to a NewsNation schedule (which nobody wants!).

For now, it seems to still exist on Gracenote:

https://tvlistings.gracenote.com/grid-affiliates.html?aid=lat

But who knows how long this will last...

FTR, TitanTV's guide also still exists:

https://www.titantv.com/

But they're another one that I wonder how much longer they can survive...

So, are we soon heading to a time when online TV schedule guides no
longer exist?!!...

I find that very strange. As a consumer of TV - as most of us are - I
would think TV listings would be a fundamental aspect of the TV
experience. After all, unless you're someone who merely uses TV as a
source of background noise as you go about your time at home and you
don't actually care what's on, you're probably going to want to know
what's on and when so that you can watch it (or set your PVR to record
it for you). If no one publishes listings, you're left to just flip the channels until something catches your eye.

Could it be that the cable companies and streaming services are
gradually buying these listings services to shut them down so that their customers don't even see - and maybe don't even know about - competing
shows? It would be interesting to contact zap2it to see why they stopped producing listings. Were they having trouble getting information about
what was on? Were they finding that almost no one used the service so
they couldn't justify the cost?

Some years ago, I actually toyed with the idea of starting such a
service myself. I never did it but I could definitely see a market for a reliable way to find out what's available to watch on whatever cable or satellite or streaming services that people used. In fact, I still toy
with it. I would love to make definitive listings of every show on every cable, satellite or streaming service in any language around the world
so that people could find out what's on wherever they are. Wouldn't that
be a cool and useful service? It ought to get use wherever people watch
TV, which is pretty much everywhere.

I’ve been peripherally involved with a couple attempts over the years. You have to understand that everyone involved in cable TV is stupid and
dishonest. Such efforts usually fall apart over in fighting such as them, insisting that the day starts at 6 AM and not midnight because that’s how
TV guide used to do it.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-03-27 3:56 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2025-03-27 10:42 AM, Ian J. Ball wrote:

Apparently, within the last day, Zap2It's TV listing site is gone - it
now directs to a NewsNation schedule (which nobody wants!).

For now, it seems to still exist on Gracenote:

https://tvlistings.gracenote.com/grid-affiliates.html?aid=lat

But who knows how long this will last...

FTR, TitanTV's guide also still exists:

https://www.titantv.com/

But they're another one that I wonder how much longer they can survive... >>>
So, are we soon heading to a time when online TV schedule guides no
longer exist?!!...

I find that very strange. As a consumer of TV - as most of us are - I
would think TV listings would be a fundamental aspect of the TV
experience. After all, unless you're someone who merely uses TV as a
source of background noise as you go about your time at home and you
don't actually care what's on, you're probably going to want to know
what's on and when so that you can watch it (or set your PVR to record
it for you). If no one publishes listings, you're left to just flip the
channels until something catches your eye.

Could it be that the cable companies and streaming services are
gradually buying these listings services to shut them down so that their
customers don't even see - and maybe don't even know about - competing
shows? It would be interesting to contact zap2it to see why they stopped
producing listings. Were they having trouble getting information about
what was on? Were they finding that almost no one used the service so
they couldn't justify the cost?

Some years ago, I actually toyed with the idea of starting such a
service myself. I never did it but I could definitely see a market for a
reliable way to find out what's available to watch on whatever cable or
satellite or streaming services that people used. In fact, I still toy
with it. I would love to make definitive listings of every show on every
cable, satellite or streaming service in any language around the world
so that people could find out what's on wherever they are. Wouldn't that
be a cool and useful service? It ought to get use wherever people watch
TV, which is pretty much everywhere.

I’ve been peripherally involved with a couple attempts over the years. You have to understand that everyone involved in cable TV is stupid and dishonest. Such efforts usually fall apart over in fighting such as them, insisting that the day starts at 6 AM and not midnight because that’s how TV guide used to do it.

Why would they even care about when the day starts?

In any case, you could let the user set the time when the day starts in
their settings and then they could start the day at 6 AM, midnight, or
any other time they wanted. As long as it was clear what time AND day
the movie or episode was going to be shown it shouldn't be hard to
display things the way the user wants. But you said they are stupid and dishonest so maybe that explains their strange attitude....

Do you know if the cable, satellite and streaming services charge people
who want to put out listings? I've always wanted to assume that they'd
be glad for people to know when they're shows are on and wouldn't charge
for that information, even if it cost them something to compile the
data. But if they want money for each and every episode and film, then
the cost of making the listings obviously goes up, perhaps to the point
where you have to charge people to see them over and above whatever ad
revenue you could get from giving them the listings for free. That would
be a key part of the business model.


--
Rhino

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2025-03-27 3:56 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

. . .

I've been peripherally involved with a couple attempts over the years. You >>have to understand that everyone involved in cable TV is stupid and >>dishonest. Such efforts usually fall apart over in fighting such as them, >>insisting that the day starts at 6 AM and not midnight because that's how >>TV guide used to do it.

Why would they even care about when the day starts?

You're right. Using GMT with offset for local time doesn't care
about the day of the week. This goes back to radio days when there was
no overnight transmission. To this day, certain AM stations are daylight
only. Who remembers why?

In any case, you could let the user set the time when the day starts in
their settings and then they could start the day at 6 AM, midnight, or
any other time they wanted.

as long as it didn't screw with the date.

. . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 21:00:00 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2025-03-27 3:56 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

. . .

I've been peripherally involved with a couple attempts over the years. You >>>have to understand that everyone involved in cable TV is stupid and >>>dishonest. Such efforts usually fall apart over in fighting such as them, >>>insisting that the day starts at 6 AM and not midnight because that's how >>>TV guide used to do it.

Why would they even care about when the day starts?

You're right. Using GMT with offset for local time doesn't care
about the day of the week. This goes back to radio days when there was
no overnight transmission. To this day, certain AM stations are daylight >only. Who remembers why?

Because of the strength of the signal and the way signals travel. The
AM signal at night can travel much further than it can during the day
and those daylight only stations were likely on a frequency that
interfered with another station at night, but not during the day.

In any case, you could let the user set the time when the day starts in >>their settings and then they could start the day at 6 AM, midnight, or
any other time they wanted.

as long as it didn't screw with the date.

. . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-03-27 5:00 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2025-03-27 3:56 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

. . .

I've been peripherally involved with a couple attempts over the years. You >>> have to understand that everyone involved in cable TV is stupid and
dishonest. Such efforts usually fall apart over in fighting such as them, >>> insisting that the day starts at 6 AM and not midnight because that's how >>> TV guide used to do it.

Why would they even care about when the day starts?

You're right. Using GMT with offset for local time doesn't care
about the day of the week. This goes back to radio days when there was
no overnight transmission. To this day, certain AM stations are daylight only. Who remembers why?

In any case, you could let the user set the time when the day starts in
their settings and then they could start the day at 6 AM, midnight, or
any other time they wanted.

as long as it didn't screw with the date.

Databases typically make heavy use of a datatype called a Timestamp
which typically consists of a year, month, day, hour, minute, second,
and fractional seconds (which could be hundredths, thousandths,
millionths or even billionths of a second) and a timezone. That
effectively bonds all of them together as a single big, complicated
number. That timestamp is normally generated to represent a particular
moment of significance, like the exact date and time a show will be
aired on a given TV provider.

It's still possible to alter individual parts of the timestamp, like the
hour, after the information has been added to the database so this
doesn't guarantee that the hour won't change (whether because the show
was rescheduled or because someone hacked the database) but it is
relatively unlikely. In any case, the system will be designed so that
the information provider - cable network, for example - is the only one
that can create or alter the data; the end user (you and me) only get to
read what's there. So if the hour changes, it's almost certainly because
the schedule was changed for some reason.


--
Rhino

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-03-27 5:18 PM, shawn wrote:

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 21:00:00 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2025-03-27 3:56 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

. . .

I've been peripherally involved with a couple attempts over the years. You >>>> have to understand that everyone involved in cable TV is stupid and
dishonest. Such efforts usually fall apart over in fighting such as them, >>>> insisting that the day starts at 6 AM and not midnight because that's how >>>> TV guide used to do it.

Why would they even care about when the day starts?

You're right. Using GMT with offset for local time doesn't care
about the day of the week. This goes back to radio days when there was
no overnight transmission. To this day, certain AM stations are daylight
only. Who remembers why?

Because of the strength of the signal and the way signals travel. The
AM signal at night can travel much further than it can during the day
and those daylight only stations were likely on a frequency that
interfered with another station at night, but not during the day.

I remember that happening when my family would go to the beach (on the
Canadian side of Lake Huron) 50 odd years ago. As it got toward
twilight, we started getting certain radio signals very strongly that we
hadn't been able to get in the afternoon. I still remember listening to
and enjoying a station from Fort Wayne. I wasn't even sure where Fort
Wayne was at the time but knew it was a lot farther than the "local"
stations from Canada, like those in the Windsor/Detroit area.

In any case, you could let the user set the time when the day starts in
their settings and then they could start the day at 6 AM, midnight, or
any other time they wanted.

as long as it didn't screw with the date.

. . .

--
Rhino

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In <vs4e8f$13d89$1@dont-email.me> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes: [snip]

You're right. Using GMT with offset for local time doesn't care
about the day of the week. This goes back to radio days when there was
no overnight transmission. To this day, certain AM stations are daylight >only. Who remembers why?

<raises hand!!!>


--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 17:18:54 -0400, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

Because of the strength of the signal and the way signals travel. The
AM signal at night can travel much further than it can during the day
and those daylight only stations were likely on a frequency that
interfered with another station at night, but not during the day.

The biggest AM radio station in Vancouver, BC recently switched its
frequency from 980 to 730 (which had formerly been owned by a rock n
roll station that had fallen on hard times) as they claimed the signal transmission was far better in the downtown area.

https://vancouversun.com/news/vancouvers-980-cknw-switches-better-signal#:~:text=Article%20content-,Starting%20Feb.,than%20the%20sometimes%2Dspotty%20980.&text=CKNW%20host%20Simi%20Sara%20announced%20the%20news%20on%20her%20show%20Monday.

I don't understand the technical aspects of why that might be but
given the cost of switching frequencies presumably they had worked out
the technical details.

I regularly listen to them at home but there it's usually via the net.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 18:02:06 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I remember that happening when my family would go to the beach (on the >Canadian side of Lake Huron) 50 odd years ago. As it got toward
twilight, we started getting certain radio signals very strongly that we >hadn't been able to get in the afternoon. I still remember listening to
and enjoying a station from Fort Wayne. I wasn't even sure where Fort
Wayne was at the time but knew it was a lot farther than the "local"
stations from Canada, like those in the Windsor/Detroit area.

We live fairly high up the hill in Vancouver and regularly get KGO San Francisco after dark during the summer months. "Skip" is a wonderful
thing - and there obviously isn't water between SF and Vancouver.

(Back in the 70s I used to do CB radio and my friends and I used to
drive up to a local lookout and pretend to be transmitting from far
away)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)