ESPN host Stephen A. Smith on Tuesday told Daily Wire editor emeritus Ben Shapiro that there was “absolutely nothing” that could get him to change his mind about Derek Chauvin.

Shapiro joined “The Stephen A. Smith Show” to make his case for pardoning Chauvin, the police officer convicted for killing George Floyd. Earlier this month, Smith suggested Shapiro’s motives were disingenuous, and that he would not have called for Chauvin to be pardoned if he were black, or if Floyd was Jewish.

But even after Shapiro outlined the evidence for why Chauvin should not have been charged with murder, Smith remained unmoved.

“What would it take for you to change your mind on the case?” Shapiro asked after noting that Floyd had requested to leave the police car and that
Chauvin was following protocol in detaining him.

“There’s absolutely nothing that could convince me that Derek Chauvin
deserved a different outcome,” Smith said.

Facts don't care about your feelings.@benshapiro: What would it
take for you to change your mind on the case?@stephenasmith:
There's absolutely nothing that could convince me that Derek
Chauvin deserved a different outcome. pic.twitter.com/kBwYo7uPco

— Daily Wire (@realDailyWire) March 25, 2025

Smith also attempted to argue that Shapiro could not weigh in on the Floyd
case because he did not have the “lived experience” of “black folks.”

“What about the argument that when we talk about black folks, you can talk about data all you want to … but the real experiences that we endure from
time to time, is not something that you can necessarily calculate,” Smith
said. “How seriously do you take those assertions coming from a community whether it’s your own, mine, or anybody else’s?”

.@BenShapiro calmly dismantles the “lived experience” argument:@StephenASmith responds: “Yeah, you make a valid point.” pic.twitter.com/k4WinhZELt

— Daily Wire (@realDailyWire) March 25, 2025

Shapiro admitted it’s true that we can “never fully get into one another’s shoes,” but said that “when it comes to making public policy then the only
sort of gauge that you can have really is the data.”

“When it comes to trying to craft law, for example, making law based on the personal feelings of people’s quote unquote lived experiences, is a bad way
to make law that is going to have to be generally applicable.”

Smith agreed and said “Yeah, you make a valid point about policy when you
talk about policy. You can’t just go by personal experience. It’s got to be
the numbers. It’s got to be the data.”

Shapiro earlier this month launched “The Case For Derek Chauvin,” a five-part series diving into the Floyd incident and making the case for Chauvin’s innocence.

“The evidence demonstrates that Derek Chauvin did not, in fact, commit the murder of George Floyd,” Shapiro said. “George Floyd was high on fentanyl; he had a significant pre-existing heart condition. George Floyd was saying he could not breathe before he was even out of the car. He was in the car saying he could not breathe.”

The first three episodes of that series are now streaming on DailyWire+.

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