• Outrageous mass murder in Vancouver

    From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 28 01:07:02 2025
    I have found very good coverage of this. The death toll in Vancouver
    appears to be 11 but I've heard some higher numbers. I haven't heard how
    many injured there are.

    It was a Filipino festival. I heard that a political candidate had just visited.

    Police quickly ruled out terrorism. How?

    This is terrible. My condolensces to families and friends of the
    victims.

    https://apnews.com/article/canada-vancouver-filipino-festival-deaths-car-6635b400430a7015341d3ca0c4c1e7fb

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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to danny burstein on Mon Apr 28 01:46:50 2025
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

    [snip]

    Police quickly ruled out terrorism. How?

    a: he was "known to the police"

    b: Canada isn't as facile or quick to label crimes
    as "terrorist" compared to the US (which, to be sure,
    often ignored/ignores that possibility when politically
    inconvenient..)

    I don't see how jumping to a conclusion without investigating is
    different in one country or another. It was an ethnic festival, so the
    question needs to be asked, or he was targetting the politicial who had
    just left.

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  • From danny burstein@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Mon Apr 28 01:17:04 2025
    In <vumkbl$20rvo$2@dont-email.me> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

    [snip]

    Police quickly ruled out terrorism. How?

    a: he was "known to the police"

    b: Canada isn't as facile or quick to label crimes
    as "terrorist" compared to the US (which, to be sure,
    often ignored/ignores that possibility when politically
    inconvenient..)

    --
    _____________________________________________________
    Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
    dannyb@panix.com
    [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

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  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Sun Apr 27 23:05:33 2025
    On 2025-04-27 9:46 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

    [snip]

    Police quickly ruled out terrorism. How?

    a: he was "known to the police"

    b: Canada isn't as facile or quick to label crimes
    as "terrorist" compared to the US (which, to be sure,
    often ignored/ignores that possibility when politically
    inconvenient..)

    I don't see how jumping to a conclusion without investigating is
    different in one country or another. It was an ethnic festival, so the question needs to be asked, or he was targetting the politicial who had
    just left.

    The articles I read said the perpetrator was known to police due to
    "mental health issues". Of course they left it at that - they always
    leave things as vague as they can, ostensibly due to "privacy" - so we
    are left to wonder how these mental health issues manifested themselves
    in the past. Did he limit himself to unhinged rants? Or had he committed previous assaults?

    His lawyer must be salivating at the police citing "mental health
    issues": now they can argue that he's not criminally responsible, send
    him away to a psychiatric institution for a few years, then declare him
    cured and let him go, which would be a better outcome (for the suspect)
    than having him in the slammer for 25 years. (Our Supreme Court has
    ruled against giving people consecutive life terms - "life" here is
    actually just 25 years - meaning you don't go to jail any longer for
    killing 11 than you do for killing 1. And that's assuming he were
    convicted of first degree murder. It's entirely common - but not
    universal - that even 1st degree murderers only get charged as 2nd
    degree killers in some cases.)

    --
    Rhino

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  • From Pluted Pup@21:1/5 to Rhino on Sun Apr 27 22:57:55 2025
    On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 20:05:33 -0700, Rhino wrote:

    On 2025-04-27 9:46 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

    [snip]

    Police quickly ruled out terrorism. How?

    a: he was "known to the police"

    b: Canada isn't as facile or quick to label crimes
    as "terrorist" compared to the US (which, to be sure,
    often ignored/ignores that possibility when politically
    inconvenient..)

    Canada is quick to judge as anywhere else, and whether
    he is a terrorist or not depends on the color of his
    skin.


    I don't see how jumping to a conclusion without investigating is
    different in one country or another. It was an ethnic festival, so the question needs to be asked, or he was targetting the politicial who had just left.

    The articles I read said the perpetrator was known to police due to
    "mental health issues". Of course they left it at that - they always
    leave things as vague as they can, ostensibly due to "privacy" - so we
    are left to wonder how these mental health issues manifested themselves
    in the past. Did he limit himself to unhinged rants? Or had he committed previous assaults?

    "Investigators ruled out terrorism and said Lo had a history of mental health issues."

    Would it be odd for a terrorist to have mental problems?
    Maybe the police and media have their reasons to think
    mental illness an exclusion for terrorism.

    Perhaps this attitude is a vestige of the old anti-racist
    slogan that terrorism against whites is justified for it's
    therapeutic value as a response to racism, re: Doctor Fanon.

    But Filipinos were killed, and the killer is presumably
    non-white, so how could this be a racially motivated
    crime? It is a well accepted principal that only
    whites are are to charged with these crimes. But,
    what if the established doctrine that "racial hatred
    is always justified against whites" actually had some
    collateral damage, couldn't the authorities still blame it
    on whites?


    His lawyer must be salivating at the police citing "mental health
    issues": now they can argue that he's not criminally responsible, send
    him away to a psychiatric institution for a few years, then declare him
    cured and let him go, which would be a better outcome (for the suspect)
    than having him in the slammer for 25 years. (Our Supreme Court has
    ruled against giving people consecutive life terms - "life" here is
    actually just 25 years - meaning you don't go to jail any longer for
    killing 11 than you do for killing 1. And that's assuming he were
    convicted of first degree murder. It's entirely common - but not
    universal - that even 1st degree murderers only get charged as 2nd
    degree killers in some cases.)

    Or am I mistaken in my assumption and he killed only white
    attendees, wouldn't that make him a hero to anti-racists?

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  • From Rhino@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Mon Apr 28 12:15:57 2025
    On 2025-04-27 9:07 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    I have found very good coverage of this. The death toll in Vancouver
    appears to be 11 but I've heard some higher numbers. I haven't heard how
    many injured there are.

    It was a Filipino festival. I heard that a political candidate had just visited.

    Police quickly ruled out terrorism. How?

    This is terrible. My condolensces to families and friends of the
    victims.

    https://apnews.com/article/canada-vancouver-filipino-festival-deaths-car-6635b400430a7015341d3ca0c4c1e7fb

    Here is more information about the man who murdered and injured the
    people at the festival with some editorializing about the deficiencies
    in our approach to mental health.

    https://nationalpost.com/opinion/adam-zivo-vancouver-car-ramming-suspect-should-have-never-been-free-in-the-first-place

    --
    Rhino

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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 29 05:50:58 2025
    Another incident, Chatham, Illinois. Four victims killed at an
    after-school program when a vehicle was driven into the building. Three
    were outside, one inside. The victims were ages 4 to 18. The driver was
    taken to hospital; he was unhurt. Police haven't said it was intentional
    yet, but it certainly appears to be.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/04/28/four-people-were-killed-when-vehicle-smashed-through-illinois-building-police-say/

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  • From Pluted Pup@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Tue Apr 29 11:38:00 2025
    On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 22:50:58 -0700, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

    Another incident, Chatham, Illinois. Four victims killed at an
    after-school program when a vehicle was driven into the building. Three
    were outside, one inside. The victims were ages 4 to 18. The driver was
    taken to hospital; he was unhurt. Police haven't said it was intentional
    yet, but it certainly appears to be.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/04/28/four-people-were-killed-when-vehicle-smashed-through-illinois-building-police-say/

    Article restricted to Chicago Tribune subscribers.

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  • From Adam H. Kerman@21:1/5 to Adam H. Kerman on Tue Apr 29 20:27:30 2025
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    Another incident, Chatham, Illinois. Four victims killed at an
    after-school program when a vehicle was driven into the building. Three
    were outside, one inside. The victims were ages 4 to 18. The driver was
    taken to hospital; he was unhurt. Police haven't said it was intentional
    yet, but it certainly appears to be.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/04/28/four-people-were-killed-when-vehicle-smashed-through-illinois-building-police-say/

    As always, turn off javascript to read.

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