This month, in New South Wales, a state on the east coast of Australia, the Conversion Practices Ban Act of 2024 went into effect. This law, by its own terms, allows the authorities to arrest Christians for praying. That's not an exaggeration or overstatement. It's actually written into the legislation:
"Praying with or over a person with the intent to change
or suppress their sexuality or gender identity is unlawful.
It's unlawful even if that person has *asked* you to pray for
them to change their sexuality or gender identity."
This is in Australia. A Western nation. Not China. Not North Korea. Praying with someone who wants you to pray with them could land you in prison. This is
happening right now in a supposed Western democracy.
In other words, if someone wants to pray to god to overcome his gender dysphoria, a condition that by definition causes significant mental distress, then his pastor cannot legally pray with him. In fact, his own family members are prohibited by law from praying with him.
If the police discover that any unapproved prayers have been occurring, they can kick down the doors of the church or the family home and haul away the violators. Then they'll spend up to five years in prison for their thought crime against the state.
Just to emphasize the point, the government of New South Wales published the single most Orwellian video you'll ever see and no matter how many times you've heard the word Orwellian used as hyperbole, believe me, this qualifies.
This is the government's attempt to intimidate the millions of people who live
in New South Wales with their new law that bans prayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ14OW3ZN24
(Why do they have both closed captions and the sign language woman making grotesque faces? If you're deaf, wouldn't one or the other suffice?)
By the terms of this legislation, every single gender activist and trans activist is a criminal because they all believe, without exception, that you can choose to be LGBTQA-- which is apparently the version du jour of that acronym. There's no other way to explain people who ping-pong between genders at will or people who de-transition. In fact, the concept of 'fluidity' is now
dogma in the religion of the Password People. Sexual fluidity, gender fluidity, means that you can change from one sexuality or gender to another.
So if someone identifies as a bi-gender toaster-kin and a few weeks later decides he's really a demi-gender half-humanoid alpaca or whatever, then at some point we can conclude that this person has made a choice to identify one way and then the other. And every step of the way, gender activists, according
to the tenets of their ideology, have no choice but to affirm every change, which is illegal under this new law.
That's one of the reason trans activists keep losing in court, by the way. They have to admit that, under their own logic, so-called trans people can choose at any time to be trans or not-trans, and therefore, because trans status is malleable, they're not entitled to civil rights protections, which only apply to immutable characteristics. (And religion, which is not immutable
but somehow got grandfathered in.)
As the video continues, things become even more dystopian. There's this line: "All people should feel welcome and valued and be able to live authentically and with pride." However, this promise apparently does not apply to Christians, who believe (as all of humanity believed until 15 minutes ago) that men are men and women are women. Those people do not have the right to live authentically or feel welcomed. Instead, they can go straight to prison.
As the video makes clear, prayer is a "conversion practice" under the law, then they casually mention that family members, including a mother and father,
can be incarcerated if they don't affirm whatever their child imagines to be their gender identity. In fact, if a mother or father were to simply pray that
their child would overcome the gender dysphoria, they can be arrested if the government somehow catches wind that you were praying that your child not be confused about themselves anymore.
Also, what are the odds that this law will only be applied to Christians (and maybe Jews, since anti-semitism is all the rage these days among left-run governments)? Does anyone seriously believe Muslims will be held to account for unauthorized praying the gay away?
Of course they describe these dystopian and terrifying policies with happy music and a sing-song HR lady doing the voice-over so that the totalitarianism
isn't so overt. (Scratch an HR lady and you'll find a power-mad despot every single time.)
In the United States, the Supreme Court is about to hear a case considering whether Colorado's ban on conversion therapy violates the 1st Amendment. The problem is that bans on conversion therapy in every case are premised on the idea that sexual orientation cannot be changed but in the same breath, the governments and activists like those in New South Wales will tell you that one's sexuality can change as often as the weather.
So if you're transitioning your sex-- a man who becomes woman but retains his attraction to women-- would go from being straight to being a lesbian. This is
the logical paradox with these conversion therapy bans that their proponents simply have no answer for. It's like dividing by zero. But they're using this phony logic to justify throwing parents and priests in prison for the crime of
prayer.
Note at the end of the video, they make the claim of extra-territorial jurisdiction for this law. They say it's also now a crime for someone outside New South Wales to pray with a New South Walesian over their gender confusion.
So presumably they're contemplating international arrest warrants and extradition requests if you're caught praying with an Australian over Zoom from Montana or Morrocco or Monaco.
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New South Wales were to read it.
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
This month, in New South Wales, a state on the east coast of
Australia, the
Conversion Practices Ban Act of 2024 went into effect. This law, by
its own
terms, allows the authorities to arrest Christians for praying. That's
not an
exaggeration or overstatement. It's actually written into the
legislation:
"Praying with or over a person with the intent to change
or suppress their sexuality or gender identity is unlawful.
It's unlawful even if that person has *asked* you to pray for
them to change their sexuality or gender identity."
This is in Australia. A Western nation. Not China. Not North Korea.
Praying
with someone who wants you to pray with them could land you in prison.
This is
happening right now in a supposed Western democracy.
In other words, if someone wants to pray to god to overcome his gender
dysphoria, a condition that by definition causes significant mental
distress,
then his pastor cannot legally pray with him. In fact, his own family
members
are prohibited by law from praying with him.
If the police discover that any unapproved prayers have been
occurring, they
can kick down the doors of the church or the family home and haul away
the
violators. Then they'll spend up to five years in prison for their
thought
crime against the state.
Just to emphasize the point, the government of New South Wales
published the
single most Orwellian video you'll ever see and no matter how many times
you've heard the word Orwellian used as hyperbole, believe me, this
qualifies.
This is the government's attempt to intimidate the millions of people
who live
in New South Wales with their new law that bans prayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ14OW3ZN24
(Why do they have both closed captions and the sign language woman making
grotesque faces? If you're deaf, wouldn't one or the other suffice?)
By the terms of this legislation, every single gender activist and trans
activist is a criminal because they all believe, without exception,
that you
can choose to be LGBTQA-- which is apparently the version du jour of that
acronym. There's no other way to explain people who ping-pong between
genders
at will or people who de-transition. In fact, the concept of
'fluidity' is now
dogma in the religion of the Password People. Sexual fluidity, gender
fluidity, means that you can change from one sexuality or gender to
another.
So if someone identifies as a bi-gender toaster-kin and a few weeks later
decides he's really a demi-gender half-humanoid alpaca or whatever,
then at
some point we can conclude that this person has made a choice to
identify one
way and then the other. And every step of the way, gender activists,
according
to the tenets of their ideology, have no choice but to affirm every
change,
which is illegal under this new law.
That's one of the reason trans activists keep losing in court, by the
way.
They have to admit that, under their own logic, so-called trans people
can
choose at any time to be trans or not-trans, and therefore, because trans
status is malleable, they're not entitled to civil rights protections,
which
only apply to immutable characteristics. (And religion, which is not
immutable
but somehow got grandfathered in.)
As the video continues, things become even more dystopian. There's
this line:
"All people should feel welcome and valued and be able to live
authentically
and with pride." However, this promise apparently does not apply to
Christians, who believe (as all of humanity believed until 15 minutes
ago)
that men are men and women are women. Those people do not have the
right to
live authentically or feel welcomed. Instead, they can go straight to
prison.
As the video makes clear, prayer is a "conversion practice" under the
law,
then they casually mention that family members, including a mother and
father,
can be incarcerated if they don't affirm whatever their child imagines
to be
their gender identity. In fact, if a mother or father were to simply
pray that
their child would overcome the gender dysphoria, they can be arrested
if the
government somehow catches wind that you were praying that your child
not be
confused about themselves anymore.
Also, what are the odds that this law will only be applied to
Christians (and
maybe Jews, since anti-semitism is all the rage these days among left-run
governments)? Does anyone seriously believe Muslims will be held to
account
for unauthorized praying the gay away?
Of course they describe these dystopian and terrifying policies with
happy
music and a sing-song HR lady doing the voice-over so that the
totalitarianism
isn't so overt. (Scratch an HR lady and you'll find a power-mad despot
every
single time.)
In the United States, the Supreme Court is about to hear a case
considering
whether Colorado's ban on conversion therapy violates the 1st
Amendment. The
problem is that bans on conversion therapy in every case are premised
on the
idea that sexual orientation cannot be changed but in the same breath,
the
governments and activists like those in New South Wales will tell you
that
one's sexuality can change as often as the weather.
So if you're transitioning your sex-- a man who becomes woman but
retains his
attraction to women-- would go from being straight to being a lesbian.
This is
the logical paradox with these conversion therapy bans that their
proponents
simply have no answer for. It's like dividing by zero. But they're
using this
phony logic to justify throwing parents and priests in prison for the
crime of
prayer.
Note at the end of the video, they make the claim of extra-territorial
jurisdiction for this law. They say it's also now a crime for someone
outside
New South Wales to pray with a New South Walesian over their gender
confusion.
So presumably they're contemplating international arrest warrants and
extradition requests if you're caught praying with an Australian over
Zoom
from Montana or Morrocco or Monaco.
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima
facie claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New
South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief. To
get a more balanced view, free of gender-identity distractions, consider
how an open prayer for misfortune to befall Jews should be addressed.
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
This month, in New South Wales, a state on the east coast of Australia, the >> Conversion Practices Ban Act of 2024 went into effect. This law, by its own >> terms, allows the authorities to arrest Christians for praying. That's not an
exaggeration or overstatement. It's actually written into the legislation: >>
"Praying with or over a person with the intent to change
or suppress their sexuality or gender identity is unlawful.
It's unlawful even if that person has *asked* you to pray for
them to change their sexuality or gender identity."
This is in Australia. A Western nation. Not China. Not North Korea. Praying >> with someone who wants you to pray with them could land you in prison. This is
happening right now in a supposed Western democracy.
In other words, if someone wants to pray to god to overcome his gender
dysphoria, a condition that by definition causes significant mental distress,
then his pastor cannot legally pray with him. In fact, his own family members
are prohibited by law from praying with him.
If the police discover that any unapproved prayers have been occurring, they >> can kick down the doors of the church or the family home and haul away the >> violators. Then they'll spend up to five years in prison for their thought >> crime against the state.
Just to emphasize the point, the government of New South Wales published the >> single most Orwellian video you'll ever see and no matter how many times
you've heard the word Orwellian used as hyperbole, believe me, this qualifies.
This is the government's attempt to intimidate the millions of people who live
in New South Wales with their new law that bans prayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ14OW3ZN24
(Why do they have both closed captions and the sign language woman making
grotesque faces? If you're deaf, wouldn't one or the other suffice?)
By the terms of this legislation, every single gender activist and trans
activist is a criminal because they all believe, without exception, that you >> can choose to be LGBTQA-- which is apparently the version du jour of that
acronym. There's no other way to explain people who ping-pong between genders
at will or people who de-transition. In fact, the concept of 'fluidity' is now
dogma in the religion of the Password People. Sexual fluidity, gender
fluidity, means that you can change from one sexuality or gender to another. >>
So if someone identifies as a bi-gender toaster-kin and a few weeks later
decides he's really a demi-gender half-humanoid alpaca or whatever, then at >> some point we can conclude that this person has made a choice to identify one
way and then the other. And every step of the way, gender activists, according
to the tenets of their ideology, have no choice but to affirm every change, >> which is illegal under this new law.
That's one of the reason trans activists keep losing in court, by the way. >> They have to admit that, under their own logic, so-called trans people can >> choose at any time to be trans or not-trans, and therefore, because trans
status is malleable, they're not entitled to civil rights protections, which >> only apply to immutable characteristics. (And religion, which is not immutable
but somehow got grandfathered in.)
As the video continues, things become even more dystopian. There's this line:
"All people should feel welcome and valued and be able to live authentically >> and with pride." However, this promise apparently does not apply to
Christians, who believe (as all of humanity believed until 15 minutes ago) >> that men are men and women are women. Those people do not have the right to >> live authentically or feel welcomed. Instead, they can go straight to prison.
As the video makes clear, prayer is a "conversion practice" under the law, >> then they casually mention that family members, including a mother and father,
can be incarcerated if they don't affirm whatever their child imagines to be >> their gender identity. In fact, if a mother or father were to simply pray that
their child would overcome the gender dysphoria, they can be arrested if the >> government somehow catches wind that you were praying that your child not be >> confused about themselves anymore.
Also, what are the odds that this law will only be applied to Christians (and
maybe Jews, since anti-semitism is all the rage these days among left-run
governments)? Does anyone seriously believe Muslims will be held to account >> for unauthorized praying the gay away?
Of course they describe these dystopian and terrifying policies with happy >> music and a sing-song HR lady doing the voice-over so that the totalitarianism
isn't so overt. (Scratch an HR lady and you'll find a power-mad despot every >> single time.)
In the United States, the Supreme Court is about to hear a case considering >> whether Colorado's ban on conversion therapy violates the 1st Amendment. The >> problem is that bans on conversion therapy in every case are premised on the >> idea that sexual orientation cannot be changed but in the same breath, the >> governments and activists like those in New South Wales will tell you that >> one's sexuality can change as often as the weather.
So if you're transitioning your sex-- a man who becomes woman but retains his
attraction to women-- would go from being straight to being a lesbian. This is
the logical paradox with these conversion therapy bans that their proponents >> simply have no answer for. It's like dividing by zero. But they're using this
phony logic to justify throwing parents and priests in prison for the crime of
prayer.
Note at the end of the video, they make the claim of extra-territorial
jurisdiction for this law. They say it's also now a crime for someone outside
New South Wales to pray with a New South Walesian over their gender confusion.
So presumably they're contemplating international arrest warrants and
extradition requests if you're caught praying with an Australian over Zoom >> from Montana or Morrocco or Monaco.
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New South >> Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief. To
get a more balanced view, free of gender-identity distractions, consider
how an open prayer for misfortune to befall Jews should be addressed.
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie >> claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New South >> Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief.
moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
This month, in New South Wales, a state on the east coast of Australia, the >>> Conversion Practices Ban Act of 2024 went into effect. This law, by its own >>> terms, allows the authorities to arrest Christians for praying. That's not an
exaggeration or overstatement. It's actually written into the legislation: >>>
"Praying with or over a person with the intent to change
or suppress their sexuality or gender identity is unlawful.
It's unlawful even if that person has *asked* you to pray for
them to change their sexuality or gender identity."
This is in Australia. A Western nation. Not China. Not North Korea. Praying >>> with someone who wants you to pray with them could land you in prison. This is
happening right now in a supposed Western democracy.
In other words, if someone wants to pray to god to overcome his gender
dysphoria, a condition that by definition causes significant mental distress,
then his pastor cannot legally pray with him. In fact, his own family members
are prohibited by law from praying with him.
If the police discover that any unapproved prayers have been occurring, they
can kick down the doors of the church or the family home and haul away the >>> violators. Then they'll spend up to five years in prison for their thought >>> crime against the state.
Just to emphasize the point, the government of New South Wales published the
single most Orwellian video you'll ever see and no matter how many times >>> you've heard the word Orwellian used as hyperbole, believe me, this qualifies.
This is the government's attempt to intimidate the millions of people who live
in New South Wales with their new law that bans prayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ14OW3ZN24
(Why do they have both closed captions and the sign language woman making >>> grotesque faces? If you're deaf, wouldn't one or the other suffice?)
By the terms of this legislation, every single gender activist and trans >>> activist is a criminal because they all believe, without exception, that you
can choose to be LGBTQA-- which is apparently the version du jour of that >>> acronym. There's no other way to explain people who ping-pong between genders
at will or people who de-transition. In fact, the concept of 'fluidity' is now
dogma in the religion of the Password People. Sexual fluidity, gender
fluidity, means that you can change from one sexuality or gender to another.
So if someone identifies as a bi-gender toaster-kin and a few weeks later >>> decides he's really a demi-gender half-humanoid alpaca or whatever, then at >>> some point we can conclude that this person has made a choice to identify one
way and then the other. And every step of the way, gender activists, according
to the tenets of their ideology, have no choice but to affirm every change, >>> which is illegal under this new law.
That's one of the reason trans activists keep losing in court, by the way. >>> They have to admit that, under their own logic, so-called trans people can >>> choose at any time to be trans or not-trans, and therefore, because trans >>> status is malleable, they're not entitled to civil rights protections, which
only apply to immutable characteristics. (And religion, which is not immutable
but somehow got grandfathered in.)
As the video continues, things become even more dystopian. There's this line:
"All people should feel welcome and valued and be able to live authentically
and with pride." However, this promise apparently does not apply to
Christians, who believe (as all of humanity believed until 15 minutes ago) >>> that men are men and women are women. Those people do not have the right to >>> live authentically or feel welcomed. Instead, they can go straight to prison.
As the video makes clear, prayer is a "conversion practice" under the law, >>> then they casually mention that family members, including a mother and father,
can be incarcerated if they don't affirm whatever their child imagines to be
their gender identity. In fact, if a mother or father were to simply pray that
their child would overcome the gender dysphoria, they can be arrested if the
government somehow catches wind that you were praying that your child not be
confused about themselves anymore.
Also, what are the odds that this law will only be applied to Christians (and
maybe Jews, since anti-semitism is all the rage these days among left-run >>> governments)? Does anyone seriously believe Muslims will be held to account >>> for unauthorized praying the gay away?
Of course they describe these dystopian and terrifying policies with happy >>> music and a sing-song HR lady doing the voice-over so that the totalitarianism
isn't so overt. (Scratch an HR lady and you'll find a power-mad despot every
single time.)
In the United States, the Supreme Court is about to hear a case considering >>> whether Colorado's ban on conversion therapy violates the 1st Amendment. The
problem is that bans on conversion therapy in every case are premised on the
idea that sexual orientation cannot be changed but in the same breath, the >>> governments and activists like those in New South Wales will tell you that >>> one's sexuality can change as often as the weather.
So if you're transitioning your sex-- a man who becomes woman but retains his
attraction to women-- would go from being straight to being a lesbian. This is
the logical paradox with these conversion therapy bans that their proponents
simply have no answer for. It's like dividing by zero. But they're using this
phony logic to justify throwing parents and priests in prison for the crime of
prayer.
Note at the end of the video, they make the claim of extra-territorial
jurisdiction for this law. They say it's also now a crime for someone outside
New South Wales to pray with a New South Walesian over their gender confusion.
So presumably they're contemplating international arrest warrants and
extradition requests if you're caught praying with an Australian over Zoom >>> from Montana or Morrocco or Monaco.
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New South >>> Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there
believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief. To
get a more balanced view, free of gender-identity distractions, consider
how an open prayer for misfortune to befall Jews should be addressed.
In any free society, it should be addressed the way it's addressed in the U.S., which is to say it's not addressed at all, given that such a thing is both protected speech and free exercise of religion.
On 2025-05-03 11:47 AM, moviePig wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:Unbelievable! The government of New South Wales has enacted perhaps the
This month, in New South Wales, a state on the east coast of
Australia, the
Conversion Practices Ban Act of 2024 went into effect. This law, by
its own
terms, allows the authorities to arrest Christians for praying.
That's not an
exaggeration or overstatement. It's actually written into the
legislation:
"Praying with or over a person with the intent to change
or suppress their sexuality or gender identity is unlawful.
It's unlawful even if that person has *asked* you to pray for >>> them to change their sexuality or gender identity."
This is in Australia. A Western nation. Not China. Not North Korea.
Praying
with someone who wants you to pray with them could land you in
prison. This is
happening right now in a supposed Western democracy.
In other words, if someone wants to pray to god to overcome his gender
dysphoria, a condition that by definition causes significant mental
distress,
then his pastor cannot legally pray with him. In fact, his own family
members
are prohibited by law from praying with him.
If the police discover that any unapproved prayers have been
occurring, they
can kick down the doors of the church or the family home and haul
away the
violators. Then they'll spend up to five years in prison for their
thought
crime against the state.
Just to emphasize the point, the government of New South Wales
published the
single most Orwellian video you'll ever see and no matter how many times >>> you've heard the word Orwellian used as hyperbole, believe me, this
qualifies.
This is the government's attempt to intimidate the millions of people
who live
in New South Wales with their new law that bans prayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ14OW3ZN24
(Why do they have both closed captions and the sign language woman
making
grotesque faces? If you're deaf, wouldn't one or the other suffice?)
By the terms of this legislation, every single gender activist and trans >>> activist is a criminal because they all believe, without exception,
that you
can choose to be LGBTQA-- which is apparently the version du jour of
that
acronym. There's no other way to explain people who ping-pong between
genders
at will or people who de-transition. In fact, the concept of
'fluidity' is now
dogma in the religion of the Password People. Sexual fluidity, gender
fluidity, means that you can change from one sexuality or gender to
another.
So if someone identifies as a bi-gender toaster-kin and a few weeks
later
decides he's really a demi-gender half-humanoid alpaca or whatever,
then at
some point we can conclude that this person has made a choice to
identify one
way and then the other. And every step of the way, gender activists,
according
to the tenets of their ideology, have no choice but to affirm every
change,
which is illegal under this new law.
That's one of the reason trans activists keep losing in court, by the
way.
They have to admit that, under their own logic, so-called trans
people can
choose at any time to be trans or not-trans, and therefore, because
trans
status is malleable, they're not entitled to civil rights
protections, which
only apply to immutable characteristics. (And religion, which is not
immutable
but somehow got grandfathered in.)
As the video continues, things become even more dystopian. There's
this line:
"All people should feel welcome and valued and be able to live
authentically
and with pride." However, this promise apparently does not apply to
Christians, who believe (as all of humanity believed until 15 minutes
ago)
that men are men and women are women. Those people do not have the
right to
live authentically or feel welcomed. Instead, they can go straight to
prison.
As the video makes clear, prayer is a "conversion practice" under the
law,
then they casually mention that family members, including a mother
and father,
can be incarcerated if they don't affirm whatever their child
imagines to be
their gender identity. In fact, if a mother or father were to simply
pray that
their child would overcome the gender dysphoria, they can be arrested
if the
government somehow catches wind that you were praying that your child
not be
confused about themselves anymore.
Also, what are the odds that this law will only be applied to
Christians (and
maybe Jews, since anti-semitism is all the rage these days among
left-run
governments)? Does anyone seriously believe Muslims will be held to
account
for unauthorized praying the gay away?
Of course they describe these dystopian and terrifying policies with
happy
music and a sing-song HR lady doing the voice-over so that the
totalitarianism
isn't so overt. (Scratch an HR lady and you'll find a power-mad
despot every
single time.)
In the United States, the Supreme Court is about to hear a case
considering
whether Colorado's ban on conversion therapy violates the 1st
Amendment. The
problem is that bans on conversion therapy in every case are premised
on the
idea that sexual orientation cannot be changed but in the same
breath, the
governments and activists like those in New South Wales will tell you
that
one's sexuality can change as often as the weather.
So if you're transitioning your sex-- a man who becomes woman but
retains his
attraction to women-- would go from being straight to being a
lesbian. This is
the logical paradox with these conversion therapy bans that their
proponents
simply have no answer for. It's like dividing by zero. But they're
using this
phony logic to justify throwing parents and priests in prison for the
crime of
prayer.
Note at the end of the video, they make the claim of extra-territorial
jurisdiction for this law. They say it's also now a crime for someone
outside
New South Wales to pray with a New South Walesian over their gender
confusion.
So presumably they're contemplating international arrest warrants and
extradition requests if you're caught praying with an Australian over
Zoom
from Montana or Morrocco or Monaco.
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima
facie claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New
South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone
there believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief.
To get a more balanced view, free of gender-identity distractions,
consider how an open prayer for misfortune to befall Jews should be
addressed.
most egregious assault on liberty ever seen in the free world but rather
than condemn it, you try to change the subject.
Are you truly unable to criticize this new law on any grounds
whatsoever? Or are you fine with it? Would you be pleased to see it implemented in your own state?
On May 3, 2025 at 8:47:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie >>> claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there
believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief.
So why wouldn't a gender activist be equally guilty for encouraging someone to
transition, then? That's every bit the equivalent of praying for them *not* to
transition and could likely shown to be more effective since it has the power of the state reinforcing it.
On 2025-05-03 12:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie >>>> claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there >>> believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief. To >>> get a more balanced view, free of gender-identity distractions, consider >>> how an open prayer for misfortune to befall Jews should be addressed.
In any free society, it should be addressed the way it's addressed in the >> U.S., which is to say it's not addressed at all, given that such a thing is >> both protected speech and free exercise of religion.
Then the UK isn't a free society given that a woman was arrested for
praying silently near an abortion clinic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Td5GHNQIgY [5 minutes]
moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
This month, in New South Wales, a state on the east coast of Australia, the >>> Conversion Practices Ban Act of 2024 went into effect. This law, by its own >>> terms, allows the authorities to arrest Christians for praying. That's not an
exaggeration or overstatement. It's actually written into the legislation: >>>
"Praying with or over a person with the intent to change
or suppress their sexuality or gender identity is unlawful.
It's unlawful even if that person has *asked* you to pray for
them to change their sexuality or gender identity."
This is in Australia. A Western nation. Not China. Not North Korea. Praying >>> with someone who wants you to pray with them could land you in prison. This is
happening right now in a supposed Western democracy.
In other words, if someone wants to pray to god to overcome his gender
dysphoria, a condition that by definition causes significant mental distress,
then his pastor cannot legally pray with him. In fact, his own family members
are prohibited by law from praying with him.
If the police discover that any unapproved prayers have been occurring, they
can kick down the doors of the church or the family home and haul away the >>> violators. Then they'll spend up to five years in prison for their thought >>> crime against the state.
Just to emphasize the point, the government of New South Wales published the
single most Orwellian video you'll ever see and no matter how many times >>> you've heard the word Orwellian used as hyperbole, believe me, this qualifies.
This is the government's attempt to intimidate the millions of people who live
in New South Wales with their new law that bans prayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ14OW3ZN24
(Why do they have both closed captions and the sign language woman making >>> grotesque faces? If you're deaf, wouldn't one or the other suffice?)
By the terms of this legislation, every single gender activist and trans >>> activist is a criminal because they all believe, without exception, that you
can choose to be LGBTQA-- which is apparently the version du jour of that >>> acronym. There's no other way to explain people who ping-pong between genders
at will or people who de-transition. In fact, the concept of 'fluidity' is now
dogma in the religion of the Password People. Sexual fluidity, gender
fluidity, means that you can change from one sexuality or gender to another.
So if someone identifies as a bi-gender toaster-kin and a few weeks later >>> decides he's really a demi-gender half-humanoid alpaca or whatever, then at >>> some point we can conclude that this person has made a choice to identify one
way and then the other. And every step of the way, gender activists, according
to the tenets of their ideology, have no choice but to affirm every change, >>> which is illegal under this new law.
That's one of the reason trans activists keep losing in court, by the way. >>> They have to admit that, under their own logic, so-called trans people can >>> choose at any time to be trans or not-trans, and therefore, because trans >>> status is malleable, they're not entitled to civil rights protections, which
only apply to immutable characteristics. (And religion, which is not immutable
but somehow got grandfathered in.)
As the video continues, things become even more dystopian. There's this line:
"All people should feel welcome and valued and be able to live authentically
and with pride." However, this promise apparently does not apply to
Christians, who believe (as all of humanity believed until 15 minutes ago) >>> that men are men and women are women. Those people do not have the right to >>> live authentically or feel welcomed. Instead, they can go straight to prison.
As the video makes clear, prayer is a "conversion practice" under the law, >>> then they casually mention that family members, including a mother and father,
can be incarcerated if they don't affirm whatever their child imagines to be
their gender identity. In fact, if a mother or father were to simply pray that
their child would overcome the gender dysphoria, they can be arrested if the
government somehow catches wind that you were praying that your child not be
confused about themselves anymore.
Also, what are the odds that this law will only be applied to Christians (and
maybe Jews, since anti-semitism is all the rage these days among left-run >>> governments)? Does anyone seriously believe Muslims will be held to account >>> for unauthorized praying the gay away?
Of course they describe these dystopian and terrifying policies with happy >>> music and a sing-song HR lady doing the voice-over so that the totalitarianism
isn't so overt. (Scratch an HR lady and you'll find a power-mad despot every
single time.)
In the United States, the Supreme Court is about to hear a case considering >>> whether Colorado's ban on conversion therapy violates the 1st Amendment. The
problem is that bans on conversion therapy in every case are premised on the
idea that sexual orientation cannot be changed but in the same breath, the >>> governments and activists like those in New South Wales will tell you that >>> one's sexuality can change as often as the weather.
So if you're transitioning your sex-- a man who becomes woman but retains his
attraction to women-- would go from being straight to being a lesbian. This is
the logical paradox with these conversion therapy bans that their proponents
simply have no answer for. It's like dividing by zero. But they're using this
phony logic to justify throwing parents and priests in prison for the crime of
prayer.
Note at the end of the video, they make the claim of extra-territorial
jurisdiction for this law. They say it's also now a crime for someone outside
New South Wales to pray with a New South Walesian over their gender confusion.
So presumably they're contemplating international arrest warrants and
extradition requests if you're caught praying with an Australian over Zoom >>> from Montana or Morrocco or Monaco.
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New South >>> Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there
believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief. To
get a more balanced view, free of gender-identity distractions, consider
how an open prayer for misfortune to befall Jews should be addressed.
In any free society, it should be addressed the way it's addressed in the U.S., which is to say it's not addressed at all, given that such a thing is both protected speech and free exercise of religion.
On 5/3/2025 1:17 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On May 3, 2025 at 8:47:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie
claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New >>>> South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there >>> believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief.
So why wouldn't a gender activist be equally guilty for encouraging someone >> to
transition, then? That's every bit the equivalent of praying for them *not* >> to
transition and could likely shown to be more effective since it has the
power
of the state reinforcing it.
I take as a given that "conversion therapy" is illegal in NSW. But I
don't know if its definition includes, e.g., dick-lopping, etc. .
May 3, 2025 at 10:32:38 AM PDT, Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>:
. . .
Then the UK isn't a free society given that a woman was arrested for >>praying silently near an abortion clinic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Td5GHNQIgY [5 minutes]
Yes, they have these "protected zones", mostly around abortion clinics,
where all free speech is suspended and you can be arrested for just
existing there if the police determine your presence is anti-abortion
in nature. They've even told people that they can be arrested in their
own homes if their homes fall within one of the zones and they do or
say anything that can be considered opposition to abortion.
Regarding the clips I've seen of people who have been arrested for praying
in one of these zones, my question would be if they're doing it silently,
how do the police know if they're praying or just going over the week's >grocery list in their head? I don't know how burdens of proof work in >England, but I would assume they're at least similar to the U.S. in
that the government has the burden to prove its case, so how does the >government prove the person was engaged in anti-abortion prayer? Does
the government now claim to have the ability to read minds?
. . .
The relevant part of the law says, "...with the intent to change or suppress >their sexuality or gender identity".
A gender activist who encourages someone to transition is engaging in >counseling with the intent to change that person's gender identity. So why >would they not be guilty of violating this law?
On May 3, 2025 at 11:12:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:17 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On May 3, 2025 at 8:47:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie
claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New >>>>> South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there >>>> believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief.
So why wouldn't a gender activist be equally guilty for encouraging someone
to
transition, then? That's every bit the equivalent of praying for them *not*
to
transition and could likely shown to be more effective since it has the >>> power
of the state reinforcing it.
I take as a given that "conversion therapy" is illegal in NSW. But I
don't know if its definition includes, e.g., dick-lopping, etc. .
The relevant part of the law says, "...with the intent to change or suppress their sexuality or gender identity".
A gender activist who encourages someone to transition is engaging in counseling with the intent to change that person's gender identity. So why would they not be guilty of violating this law?
On 5/3/2025 2:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On May 3, 2025 at 11:12:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: >>
On 5/3/2025 1:17 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On May 3, 2025 at 8:47:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:So why wouldn't a gender activist be equally guilty for encouraging >>>> someone
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima >>>>>> facie
claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New
South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there
believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief. >>>>
to
transition, then? That's every bit the equivalent of praying for them >>>> *not*
to
transition and could likely shown to be more effective since it has the >>>> power
of the state reinforcing it.
I take as a given that "conversion therapy" is illegal in NSW. But I
don't know if its definition includes, e.g., dick-lopping, etc. .
The relevant part of the law says, "...with the intent to change or suppress
their sexuality or gender identity".
A gender activist who encourages someone to transition is engaging in
counseling with the intent to change that person's gender identity. So why >> would they not be guilty of violating this law?
Because 'encouragement' (i.e., advice) is part of normal (i.e.,
consensual) discourse ...whereas 'prayer' goes beyond advice by invoking
the unilateral intercession of an all-powerful despot.
On May 3, 2025 at 12:25:54 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 2:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On May 3, 2025 at 11:12:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>
On 5/3/2025 1:17 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On May 3, 2025 at 8:47:26 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:So why wouldn't a gender activist be equally guilty for encouraging >>>>> someone
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima
facie
claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New
South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there
believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief. >>>>>
to
transition, then? That's every bit the equivalent of praying for them >>>>> *not*
to
transition and could likely shown to be more effective since it has the
power
of the state reinforcing it.
I take as a given that "conversion therapy" is illegal in NSW. But I >>>> don't know if its definition includes, e.g., dick-lopping, etc. .
The relevant part of the law says, "...with the intent to change or suppress
their sexuality or gender identity".
A gender activist who encourages someone to transition is engaging in
counseling with the intent to change that person's gender identity. So why
would they not be guilty of violating this law?
Because 'encouragement' (i.e., advice) is part of normal (i.e.,
consensual) discourse ...whereas 'prayer' goes beyond advice by invoking
the unilateral intercession of an all-powerful despot.
Not necessarily. Depending on one's theology, prayer doesn't directly call for
magic from an omnipotent sky-tyrant.
Is Australia going to be sorting out who gets prosecuted for unlawful prayer and who doesn't on the basis of each religion's specific mythology?
On May 3, 2025 at 10:32:38 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
On 2025-05-03 12:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:In any free society, it should be addressed the way it's addressed in the >>> U.S., which is to say it's not addressed at all, given that such a thing is
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie
claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there >>>> believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief. To >>>> get a more balanced view, free of gender-identity distractions, consider >>>> how an open prayer for misfortune to befall Jews should be addressed. >>>
both protected speech and free exercise of religion.
Then the UK isn't a free society given that a woman was arrested for
praying silently near an abortion clinic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Td5GHNQIgY [5 minutes]
Yes, they have these "protected zones", mostly around abortion clinics, where all free speech is suspended and you can be arrested for just existing there if the police determine your presence is anti-abortion in nature. They've even
told people that they can be arrested in their own homes if their homes fall within one of the zones and they do or say anything that can be considered opposition to abortion.
Regarding the clips I've seen of people who have been arrested for praying in one of these zones, my question would be if they're doing it silently, how do the police know if they're praying or just going over the week's grocery list in their head? I don't know how burdens of proof work in England, but I would assume they're at least similar to the U.S. in that the government has the burden to prove its case, so how does the government prove the person was engaged in anti-abortion prayer? Does the government now claim to have the ability to read minds?
On 2025-05-03 2:23 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On May 3, 2025 at 10:32:38 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> >> wrote:In the video I linked, the woman was asked by the police what she was
On 2025-05-03 12:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:In any free society, it should be addressed the way it's addressed in the
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie
claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New >>>>>> South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there
believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief. To
get a more balanced view, free of gender-identity distractions, consider
how an open prayer for misfortune to befall Jews should be addressed. >>>>
U.S., which is to say it's not addressed at all, given that such a
thing is
both protected speech and free exercise of religion.
Then the UK isn't a free society given that a woman was arrested for
praying silently near an abortion clinic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Td5GHNQIgY [5 minutes]
Yes, they have these "protected zones", mostly around abortion clinics,
where
all free speech is suspended and you can be arrested for just existing there
if the police determine your presence is anti-abortion in nature. They've >> even
told people that they can be arrested in their own homes if their homes fall
within one of the zones and they do or say anything that can be considered >> opposition to abortion.
Regarding the clips I've seen of people who have been arrested for praying >> in
one of these zones, my question would be if they're doing it silently, how >> do
the police know if they're praying or just going over the week's grocery
list
in their head? I don't know how burdens of proof work in England, but I
would
assume they're at least similar to the U.S. in that the government has the >> burden to prove its case, so how does the government prove the person was >> engaged in anti-abortion prayer? Does the government now claim to have the >> ability to read minds?
doing there and she admitted she was praying in her head.
I can't imagine what they would have done if she'd insisted that what
she was thinking was none of their business.
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
May 3, 2025 at 10:32:38 AM PDT, Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>:
. . .
Then the UK isn't a free society given that a woman was arrested for >>>praying silently near an abortion clinic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Td5GHNQIgY [5 minutes]
Yes, they have these "protected zones", mostly around abortion clinics, >>where all free speech is suspended and you can be arrested for just >>existing there if the police determine your presence is anti-abortion
in nature. They've even told people that they can be arrested in their
own homes if their homes fall within one of the zones and they do or
say anything that can be considered opposition to abortion.
Regarding the clips I've seen of people who have been arrested for praying >>in one of these zones, my question would be if they're doing it silently, >>how do the police know if they're praying or just going over the week's >>grocery list in their head? I don't know how burdens of proof work in >>England, but I would assume they're at least similar to the U.S. in
that the government has the burden to prove its case, so how does the >>government prove the person was engaged in anti-abortion prayer? Does
the government now claim to have the ability to read minds?
I think Rhino's point is well taken.
As to your point, it's the unwritten constitution aspect to common law.
If they had the equivalent of probable cause in the past, then any new law >criminalizing what we'd consider to be ordinary behavior within liberty
we take for granted in America cannot help but erode rights at arrest.
This is a thought crime which, by its very nature, one cannot be
arrested for with probable cause.
Phrasing it in the way we speak of illiberal policing right here on
Usenet, moviePig has already won.
On May 3, 2025 at 1:49:09 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
On 2025-05-03 2:23 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On May 3, 2025 at 10:32:38 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com>In the video I linked, the woman was asked by the police what she was
wrote:
On 2025-05-03 12:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 5/3/2025 1:29 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
The scope of this law is so broad, you could probably make a prima facie
claim
that I'm violating it right now by making this post if someone in New
South
Wales were to read it.
"Conversion therapy" is outlawed in NSW. And, apparently, someone there
believes in the power of prayer to effect it.
This is an argument about the material efficacy of religious belief. To
get a more balanced view, free of gender-identity distractions, consider
how an open prayer for misfortune to befall Jews should be addressed.
In any free society, it should be addressed the way it's addressed in the
U.S., which is to say it's not addressed at all, given that such a >>>>> thing is
both protected speech and free exercise of religion.
Then the UK isn't a free society given that a woman was arrested for >>>> praying silently near an abortion clinic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Td5GHNQIgY [5 minutes]
Yes, they have these "protected zones", mostly around abortion clinics, >>> where
all free speech is suspended and you can be arrested for just existing there
if the police determine your presence is anti-abortion in nature. They've >>> even
told people that they can be arrested in their own homes if their homes fall
within one of the zones and they do or say anything that can be considered
opposition to abortion.
Regarding the clips I've seen of people who have been arrested for praying
in
one of these zones, my question would be if they're doing it silently, how
do
the police know if they're praying or just going over the week's grocery >>> list
in their head? I don't know how burdens of proof work in England, but I >>> would
assume they're at least similar to the U.S. in that the government has the
burden to prove its case, so how does the government prove the person was >>> engaged in anti-abortion prayer? Does the government now claim to have the
ability to read minds?
doing there and she admitted she was praying in her head.
She said she "might be" praying.
That's basically challenging the cops to
prove it.
But what do they do if they have a defendant who just says, "I was thinking" or doesn't say anything at all and invites the government to prove its case?
I can't imagine what they would have done if she'd insisted that what
she was thinking was none of their business.
Which would have been my response. "My silent thoughts are none of the governments concern and here's the number to my lawyer if you have any further
questions because I won't be answering any more of them myself."
Cops often have an inflated sense of what's their business and what isn't. I may have told this story before, but I occasionally get stopped by the police checkpoints here in L.A. The pesky Constitution and its probable cause requirements means they're not legally allowed to do DUI dragnets, so they get
around that by saying the purpose of the checkpoints is to check for valid licenses and insurance. If they happen to find someone who's drunk at the same
time, well, too bad for them.
Anyway, I usually don't have a problem-- I exchange a few words with the cop, show him my license, and I'm on my way-- but at one of them, the cop started peppering me with questions about where I was going, where I'd been, who I'd been seeing, what we were doing, what were their names, etc. After about 30 seconds of that, I was like, hey man, the details of my personal life really aren't any of your business or the government's business. That got him pissed off and he started giving me a bunch of bullshit about how since I'm using the
public roads, that makes anything he wants to know about me his business. That's when I showed him my own badge and said I'd be happy to pull to the side, call his supervisor over, and the three of us could discuss his excitingly draconian and certainly unconstitutional legal theory together.
COP: No, need for that. Have a nice night.
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