Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations
with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

Yeah, well, they're still not eliminating the automatic request for a
tip without table service and without a waitress.

I'm still getting surcharged at all sorts of restaurants in addition to
the automatic suggested tip surcharge. I'm so old that I remember that surcharges that weren't disclosed up front were presumed to be contract violations and not standard business practices.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations
with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

--
Rhino

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-05-16 11:53 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations
with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

Yeah, well, they're still not eliminating the automatic request for a
tip without table service and without a waitress.

I'm still getting surcharged at all sorts of restaurants in addition to
the automatic suggested tip surcharge. I'm so old that I remember that surcharges that weren't disclosed up front were presumed to be contract violations and not standard business practices.

It's all getting quite ridiculous. There are obvious solutions though:
don't tip at all; don't patronize places that expect tipping; only tip
as much as you think is appropriate. Lobbying governments to regulate
tipping is yet another option.

--
Rhino

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

2025-05-16 11:53 AM, Adam H. Kerman:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you >>>might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations >>>with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

Yeah, well, they're still not eliminating the automatic request for a
tip without table service and without a waitress.

I'm still getting surcharged at all sorts of restaurants in addition to
the automatic suggested tip surcharge. I'm so old that I remember that >>surcharges that weren't disclosed up front were presumed to be contract >>violations and not standard business practices.

It's all getting quite ridiculous. There are obvious solutions though:
don't tip at all; don't patronize places that expect tipping; only tip
as much as you think is appropriate. Lobbying governments to regulate
tipping is yet another option.

The solution I prefer is the consumer using his own power.

Government regulation can be heavy handed and have unintended
consequences. Chicago has a landlord-tenant ordinance requiring landlors
to pay interest on security deposits. Thanks to the housing shortage
(due in large part to heavy-handed building and zoning codes together
with the high cost of building materials and shortage of tradesmen),
landlords are now charging move-in fees. I heard a reporter who had just
moved relating her discussion with the landlord. She liked the unit and
had confidence in the landlord that he'd maintain the building, so she
was in no position to argue. He flat out told her that the move-in fee
wasn't to reimburse specific building expenses but what the market will
bear. Everything is negotiable but he was in the better bargaining
position. Basically, garbage fees were added because they are
unregulated.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations
with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

Amazon grocery delivery service briefly as it turned out, lowered their
minimum order for free delivery to $50 from multiple hundreds. So I tried
it a couple weeks ago and they not only added on a seven dollar delivery
fee but they added on a five dollar tip neither of which they told you
about until you got the receipt after you got the groceries. They then
raised the minimum order up to 100 bucks.

I contested the delivery fee and got it refunded, but I let the tip slide because I figured it wasn’t the delivery person‘s fault

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2025-05-16 1:16 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations
with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

Amazon grocery delivery service briefly as it turned out, lowered their minimum order for free delivery to $50 from multiple hundreds. So I tried
it a couple weeks ago and they not only added on a seven dollar delivery
fee but they added on a five dollar tip neither of which they told you
about until you got the receipt after you got the groceries. They then
raised the minimum order up to 100 bucks.

I contested the delivery fee and got it refunded, but I let the tip slide because I figured it wasn’t the delivery person‘s fault

Good on you for contesting the delivery fee. Free means free so the idea
of them charging you $7 for free delivery is ridiculous.

As for letting the tip slide, I agree, it wasn't the delivery person's
fault. (I'm assuming it was a human making the delivery, not some kind
of robot.)

--
Rhino

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 16 May 2025 13:59:50 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2025-05-16 1:16 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations >>> with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

Amazon grocery delivery service briefly as it turned out, lowered their
minimum order for free delivery to $50 from multiple hundreds. So I tried
it a couple weeks ago and they not only added on a seven dollar delivery
fee but they added on a five dollar tip neither of which they told you
about until you got the receipt after you got the groceries. They then
raised the minimum order up to 100 bucks.

I contested the delivery fee and got it refunded, but I let the tip slide
because I figured it wasn’t the delivery person‘s fault

Good on you for contesting the delivery fee. Free means free so the idea
of them charging you $7 for free delivery is ridiculous.

As for letting the tip slide, I agree, it wasn't the delivery person's
fault. (I'm assuming it was a human making the delivery, not some kind
of robot.)

That assumes the tip is going to the delivery person. Something I
would have believed a few decades ago but now I wouldn't trust.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

Fri, 16 May 2025 13:59:50 -0400, Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>: >>2025-05-16 1:16 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

Amazon grocery delivery service briefly as it turned out, lowered their >>>minimum order for free delivery to $50 from multiple hundreds. So I tried >>>it a couple weeks ago and they not only added on a seven dollar delivery >>>fee but they added on a five dollar tip neither of which they told you >>>about until you got the receipt after you got the groceries. They then >>>raised the minimum order up to 100 bucks.

I contested the delivery fee and got it refunded, but I let the tip slide >>>because I figured it wasn’t the delivery person‘s fault

Good on you for contesting the delivery fee. Free means free so the idea
of them charging you $7 for free delivery is ridiculous.

As for letting the tip slide, I agree, it wasn't the delivery person's >>fault. (I'm assuming it was a human making the delivery, not some kind
of robot.)

That assumes the tip is going to the delivery person. Something I
would have believed a few decades ago but now I wouldn't trust.

Good point. DoorDash got caught failing to remit tips it collected over
several years. There was a class action lawsuit.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On May 16, 2025 at 8:17:19 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations
with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

I've absolutely had it with tipping. I've got everyone from Subway to McDonald's pestering me for tips now.

Dude, you shoved a bag of burgers across the counter to me. What makes you think you deserve an extra 20% of my bill for that? Especially here in California, where, thanks to the socialists in the legislature, you make more than $20/hr by law to shake the fry basket or squirt the guac bottle in the first place. (Which has resulted in the cost of a Big Mac/fries/soda approaching $20 now. In 2019, I could get that for $7.95) You're already
making *far* more than your unskilled labor is worth and you have the stones
to try to shake me down for an additional 20% tip on top of it all?

And the standard used to be 15% for good service, 20% for exceptional service, but now when you get the tip prompt screen on the credit card reader, it
starts at 20% and then goes up for there. Waitstaff are now expecting 30% or more from you and consider you a bad tipper if all you give them is 20%. It's gotten so that I only use cash at fast food joints so I'm never asked for a
tip in the first place. Yes, they have a jar next to the register but you can easily pretend you don't notice that.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On May 16, 2025 at 10:59:50 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2025-05-16 1:16 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations >>> with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

Amazon grocery delivery service briefly as it turned out, lowered their
minimum order for free delivery to $50 from multiple hundreds. So I tried >> it a couple weeks ago and they not only added on a seven dollar delivery
fee but they added on a five dollar tip neither of which they told you
about until you got the receipt after you got the groceries. They then
raised the minimum order up to 100 bucks.

I contested the delivery fee and got it refunded, but I let the tip slide >> because I figured it wasn’t the delivery person‘s fault

Good on you for contesting the delivery fee. Free means free so the idea
of them charging you $7 for free delivery is ridiculous.

As for letting the tip slide, I agree, it wasn't the delivery person's
fault. (I'm assuming it was a human making the delivery, not some kind
of robot.)

That'll be the next thing. You get charged an automatic tip and it's a drone that delivers your package. Not only will Skynet subjugate us, it will expect us to pay for the privilege.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 16 May 2025 18:58:49 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:

On May 16, 2025 at 8:17:19 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> >wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations
with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

I've absolutely had it with tipping. I've got everyone from Subway to >McDonald's pestering me for tips now.

Dude, you shoved a bag of burgers across the counter to me. What makes you >think you deserve an extra 20% of my bill for that? Especially here in >California, where, thanks to the socialists in the legislature, you make more >than $20/hr by law to shake the fry basket or squirt the guac bottle in the >first place. (Which has resulted in the cost of a Big Mac/fries/soda >approaching $20 now. In 2019, I could get that for $7.95) You're already >making *far* more than your unskilled labor is worth and you have the stones >to try to shake me down for an additional 20% tip on top of it all?

Wasn't the point of the increase to give the employees a livable
income. One where tips wouldn't be necessary. Guess that wasn't the
case.

And the standard used to be 15% for good service, 20% for exceptional service, >but now when you get the tip prompt screen on the credit card reader, it >starts at 20% and then goes up for there. Waitstaff are now expecting 30% or >more from you and consider you a bad tipper if all you give them is 20%. It's >gotten so that I only use cash at fast food joints so I'm never asked for a >tip in the first place. Yes, they have a jar next to the register but you can >easily pretend you don't notice that.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

Fri, 16 May 2025 18:58:49 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>:

May 16, 2025 at 8:17:19 AM PDT, Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you >>>might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations >>>with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

I've absolutely had it with tipping. I've got everyone from Subway to >>McDonald's pestering me for tips now.

Dude, you shoved a bag of burgers across the counter to me. What makes you >>think you deserve an extra 20% of my bill for that? Especially here in >>California, where, thanks to the socialists in the legislature, you make more >>than $20/hr by law to shake the fry basket or squirt the guac bottle in the >>first place. (Which has resulted in the cost of a Big Mac/fries/soda >>approaching $20 now. In 2019, I could get that for $7.95) You're already >>making *far* more than your unskilled labor is worth and you have the stones >>to try to shake me down for an additional 20% tip on top of it all?

Wasn't the point of the increase to give the employees a livable
income. One where tips wouldn't be necessary. Guess that wasn't the
case.

No. The merchant simply doesn't want the wage increase on his payroll.
Don't kid yourself that it's otherwise. It doesn't necessarily mean that
the tipped person gets a higher way.

In the other followup, you yourself pointed out that the tip doesn't necessarily go to the person the customer thinks is going to receive it.

. . .

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2025-05-16 1:16 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations >>> with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

Amazon grocery delivery service briefly as it turned out, lowered their
minimum order for free delivery to $50 from multiple hundreds. So I tried
it a couple weeks ago and they not only added on a seven dollar delivery
fee but they added on a five dollar tip neither of which they told you
about until you got the receipt after you got the groceries. They then
raised the minimum order up to 100 bucks.

I contested the delivery fee and got it refunded, but I let the tip slide
because I figured it wasn’t the delivery person‘s fault

Good on you for contesting the delivery fee. Free means free so the idea
of them charging you $7 for free delivery is ridiculous.

As for letting the tip slide, I agree, it wasn't the delivery person's
fault. (I'm assuming it was a human making the delivery, not some kind
of robot.)

They keep telling us they have robot delivery here, but I’d get to see one. The closest we come is they’ll send out your groceries in a Waymo, but it still has a real person to unload them.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

On May 16, 2025 at 8:17:19 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations
with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

I've absolutely had it with tipping. I've got everyone from Subway to McDonald's pestering me for tips now.

Dude, you shoved a bag of burgers across the counter to me. What makes you think you deserve an extra 20% of my bill for that? Especially here in California, where, thanks to the socialists in the legislature, you make more than $20/hr by law to shake the fry basket or squirt the guac bottle in the first place. (Which has resulted in the cost of a Big Mac/fries/soda approaching $20 now. In 2019, I could get that for $7.95) You're already making *far* more than your unskilled labor is worth and you have the stones to try to shake me down for an additional 20% tip on top of it all?

And the standard used to be 15% for good service, 20% for exceptional service,
but now when you get the tip prompt screen on the credit card reader, it starts at 20% and then goes up for there. Waitstaff are now expecting 30% or more from you and consider you a bad tipper if all you give them is 20%. It's gotten so that I only use cash at fast food joints so I'm never asked for a tip in the first place. Yes, they have a jar next to the register but you can easily pretend you don't notice that.

Yeah, the Facebook is full of memes that says if you can’t afford to tip
30% just don’t eat out. Like that’s endearing them to me.

Something else I don’t like is that they tell you you should tip on the retail value of the foodbut this tip is just going to a guy who’s bringing
me a bag. Why should he get a huge tip if there’s something expensive in
the bag when the bag is the same size and he brought it the same distance?



--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

On Fri, 16 May 2025 13:59:50 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

On 2025-05-16 1:16 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations >>>> with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

Amazon grocery delivery service briefly as it turned out, lowered their
minimum order for free delivery to $50 from multiple hundreds. So I tried >>> it a couple weeks ago and they not only added on a seven dollar delivery >>> fee but they added on a five dollar tip neither of which they told you
about until you got the receipt after you got the groceries. They then
raised the minimum order up to 100 bucks.

I contested the delivery fee and got it refunded, but I let the tip slide >>> because I figured it wasn’t the delivery person‘s fault

Good on you for contesting the delivery fee. Free means free so the idea
of them charging you $7 for free delivery is ridiculous.

As for letting the tip slide, I agree, it wasn't the delivery person's
fault. (I'm assuming it was a human making the delivery, not some kind
of robot.)

That assumes the tip is going to the delivery person. Something I
would have believed a few decades ago but now I wouldn't trust.

Uber makes a big point about 100% of the tip going to the driver/shopper,
but who knows? I don’t know about the Amazon.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 16 May 2025 15:53:37 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I just saw this article about tipping here in Canada and thought you
might be interested to see how it works here given your own frustrations >>with it in LA.

https://www.narcity.com/quebec-bill-72-tipping-law-canadawide

Yeah, well, they're still not eliminating the automatic request for a
tip without table service and without a waitress.

I'm still getting surcharged at all sorts of restaurants in addition to
the automatic suggested tip surcharge. I'm so old that I remember that >surcharges that weren't disclosed up front were presumed to be contract >violations and not standard business practices.

I even got a "tip surcharge request" on the pinpad at the pet food
store - I suspect that was auto-programmed in by the pinpad
manufacturer and they hadn't turned it off.

Woof!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 16 May 2025 12:16:08 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

I'm still getting surcharged at all sorts of restaurants in addition to
the automatic suggested tip surcharge. I'm so old that I remember that
surcharges that weren't disclosed up front were presumed to be contract
violations and not standard business practices.

It's all getting quite ridiculous. There are obvious solutions though:
don't tip at all; don't patronize places that expect tipping; only tip
as much as you think is appropriate. Lobbying governments to regulate
tipping is yet another option.

I >NEVER< tip %age in restaurants simply because most restaurant bills
in Canada calculate %age based on price including tax - but mentally
deduct the tax and mentally calculate what would be a reasonable
percentage.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)