On May 22, 2025 at 6:32:48 AM PDT, "Marmalade King" <x@y.com> wrote:
Evan Vucci / The Associated Press
By Nicholas Riccardi, Ali Swenson And Mogomotsi Magome The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) President Donald Trump confronted South African President >>Cyril Ramaphosa on Wednesday with claims that white farmers are being >>targeted and killed in the country.
Trumps main evidence, compiled in a video shown during their Oval Office >>meeting: Speeches by a politician who was kicked out of Ramaphosas party, >>is not part of the coalition that governs the country and whose own >>political movement garnered less than 10% of the vote in last years >>elections.
President Donald Trump and South Africa's president exchanged tense words >>in the Oval Office Wednedsay over Trump's baseless claims of the systematic >>killing of white farmers. At one point Trump showed a video of white >>crosses, which he said memorialized white farmers who were killed.
The Trump administration has used the rhetoric of a fringe politician and >>South Africas endemic violence as justification for allowing white South >>Africans to apply to become refugees in the United States
Fifty-nine people. The same people who had no problem with Biden throwing open >the border and allowing 15 *million* to flood into the country unchecked and >unvetted, breaking the budgets of the major cities, are suddenly running for >the fainting couch over 59 people for no other reason than that they're >white.
Freedom Fighters to argue that South Africa is engaged in genocide against >>white farmers, a contention that seemed to baffle Malemas main political >>rival, Ramaphosa, during his Oval Office visit. Ramaphosa repeatedly >>stressed that EFF is a small minority party.
That doesn't mean the murders and rapes and arsons and theft aren't >happening.
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
On May 22, 2025 at 6:32:48 AM PDT, "Marmalade King" <x@y.com> wrote:
Evan Vucci / The Associated Press
By Nicholas Riccardi, Ali Swenson And Mogomotsi Magome The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) President Donald Trump confronted South African President
Cyril Ramaphosa on Wednesday with claims that white farmers are being
targeted and killed in the country.
Trumps main evidence, compiled in a video shown during their Oval Office >>> meeting: Speeches by a politician who was kicked out of Ramaphosas party, >>> is not part of the coalition that governs the country and whose own
political movement garnered less than 10% of the vote in last years
elections.
President Donald Trump and South Africa's president exchanged tense words >>> in the Oval Office Wednedsay over Trump's baseless claims of the systematic >>> killing of white farmers. At one point Trump showed a video of white
crosses, which he said memorialized white farmers who were killed.
The Trump administration has used the rhetoric of a fringe politician and >>> South Africas endemic violence as justification for allowing white South >>> Africans to apply to become refugees in the United States
Fifty-nine people. The same people who had no problem with Biden throwing
open
the border and allowing 15 *million* to flood into the country unchecked and >> unvetted, breaking the budgets of the major cities, are suddenly running for >> the fainting couch over 59 people for no other reason than that they're
white.
It doesn't matter if Trump let them in. I am in favor of immigration,
and deporting immigrants convicted of felonies.
Trump can and should be criticized for claiming they were refugees
lacking evidence of ethnic cleansing or whatever. The crosses weren't a burial site but a makeshift memorial to a local family that had been
killed in a disaster, not ethnic cleansing,
He's doing it as a favor to Elon Musk.
Trump ended the special status for Venezuelans. Why the fuck is he
sending people back who were forced to leave, REJECTING communism? THey couldn't be said to be coming to America to change our society. They
would have thrived here. Many of them would have met refugee status
better than these farmers.
It's fair for you to call out hypocrisy in others, but you might have
also called out Trump's hypocrisy with regard to the Venesualens,
Freedom Fighters to argue that South Africa is engaged in genocide against >>> white farmers, a contention that seemed to baffle Malemas main political >>> rival, Ramaphosa, during his Oval Office visit. Ramaphosa repeatedly
stressed that EFF is a small minority party.
That doesn't mean the murders and rapes and arsons and theft aren't
happening.
Where are the reports? It's just hand waiving right now.
May 22, 2025 at 10:32:15 AM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
May 22, 2025 at 6:32:48 AM PDT, "Marmalade King" <x@y.com> wrote:
Evan Vucci / The Associated Press
By Nicholas Riccardi, Ali Swenson And Mogomotsi Magome The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) President Donald Trump confronted South African President >>>>Cyril Ramaphosa on Wednesday with claims that white farmers are being >>>>targeted and killed in the country.
Trumps main evidence, compiled in a video shown during their Oval Office >>>>meeting: Speeches by a politician who was kicked out of Ramaphosas party, >>>>is not part of the coalition that governs the country and whose own >>>>political movement garnered less than 10% of the vote in last years >>>>elections.
President Donald Trump and South Africa's president exchanged tense >>>>words in the Oval Office Wednedsay over Trump's baseless claims of
the systematic killing of white farmers. At one point Trump showed
a video of white crosses, which he said memorialized white farmers
who were killed.
The Trump administration has used the rhetoric of a fringe politician and >>>>South Africas endemic violence as justification for allowing white South >>>>Africans to apply to become refugees in the United States
Fifty-nine people. The same people who had no problem with Biden
throwing open the border and allowing 15 *million* to flood into the >>>country unchecked and unvetted, breaking the budgets of the major
cities, are suddenly running for the fainting couch over 59 people
for no other reason than that they're white.
It doesn't matter if Trump let them in. I am in favor of immigration,
and deporting immigrants convicted of felonies.
Trump can and should be criticized for claiming they were refugees
lacking evidence of ethnic cleansing or whatever. The crosses weren't a >>burial site but a makeshift memorial to a local family that had been
killed in a disaster, not ethnic cleansing,
South Africa passed a law that allows for the seizure of land from white >people, without compensation, and its transfer to black people. That's >government oppression on the basis of skin color. It's exactly what the >refugee system was designed for.
The murdering and raping and violence (encouraged by a significant number of >the country's politicians with a wink and a nod) are just the cherry on that >shit sundae.
He's doing it as a favor to Elon Musk.
Trump ended the special status for Venezuelans. Why the fuck is he
sending people back who were forced to leave, REJECTING communism? THey >>couldn't be said to be coming to America to change our society. They
would have thrived here. Many of them would have met refugee status
better than these farmers.
It's fair for you to call out hypocrisy in others, but you might have
also called out Trump's hypocrisy with regard to the Venesualens,
Freedom Fighters to argue that South Africa is engaged in genocide against >>>>white farmers, a contention that seemed to baffle Malemas main political >>>>rival, Ramaphosa, during his Oval Office visit. Ramaphosa repeatedly >>>>stressed that EFF is a small minority party.
That doesn't mean the murders and rapes and arsons and theft aren't >>>happening.
Where are the reports? It's just hand waiving right now.
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
On May 22, 2025 at 6:32:48 AM PDT, "Marmalade King" <x@y.com> wrote:
Evan Vucci / The Associated Press
By Nicholas Riccardi, Ali Swenson And Mogomotsi Magome The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) President Donald Trump confronted South African President
Cyril Ramaphosa on Wednesday with claims that white farmers are being
targeted and killed in the country.
Trumps main evidence, compiled in a video shown during their Oval Office >>> meeting: Speeches by a politician who was kicked out of Ramaphosas party, >>> is not part of the coalition that governs the country and whose own
political movement garnered less than 10% of the vote in last years
elections.
President Donald Trump and South Africa's president exchanged tense words >>> in the Oval Office Wednedsay over Trump's baseless claims of the systematic >>> killing of white farmers. At one point Trump showed a video of white
crosses, which he said memorialized white farmers who were killed.
The Trump administration has used the rhetoric of a fringe politician and >>> South Africas endemic violence as justification for allowing white South >>> Africans to apply to become refugees in the United States
Fifty-nine people. The same people who had no problem with Biden throwing open
the border and allowing 15 *million* to flood into the country unchecked and >> unvetted, breaking the budgets of the major cities, are suddenly running for >> the fainting couch over 59 people for no other reason than that they're
white.
It doesn't matter if Trump let them in. I am in favor of immigration,
and deporting immigrants convicted of felonies.
Trump can and should be criticized for claiming they were refugees
lacking evidence of ethnic cleansing or whatever. The crosses weren't a burial site but a makeshift memorial to a local family that had been
killed in a disaster, not ethnic cleansing,
He's doing it as a favor to Elon Musk.
Trump ended the special status for Venezuelans. Why the fuck is he
sending people back who were forced to leave, REJECTING communism? THey couldn't be said to be coming to America to change our society. They
would have thrived here. Many of them would have met refugee status
better than these farmers.
It's fair for you to call out hypocrisy in others, but you might have
also called out Trump's hypocrisy with regard to the Venesualens,
Freedom Fighters to argue that South Africa is engaged in genocide against >>> white farmers, a contention that seemed to baffle Malemas main political >>> rival, Ramaphosa, during his Oval Office visit. Ramaphosa repeatedly
stressed that EFF is a small minority party.
That doesn't mean the murders and rapes and arsons and theft aren't
happening.
Where are the reports? It's just hand waiving right now.
2025-05-22 1:32 PM, Adam H. Kerman:
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
May 22, 2025 at 6:32:48 AM PDT, "Marmalade King" <x@y.com> wrote:
Evan Vucci / The Associated Press
By Nicholas Riccardi, Ali Swenson And Mogomotsi Magome The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) President Donald Trump confronted South African President >>>>Cyril Ramaphosa on Wednesday with claims that white farmers are being >>>>targeted and killed in the country.
Trumps main evidence, compiled in a video shown during their Oval Office >>>>meeting: Speeches by a politician who was kicked out of Ramaphosas party, >>>>is not part of the coalition that governs the country and whose own >>>>political movement garnered less than 10% of the vote in last years >>>>elections.
President Donald Trump and South Africa's president exchanged tense >>>>words in the Oval Office Wednedsay over Trump's baseless claims of
the systematic killing of white farmers. At one point Trump showed
a video of white crosses, which he said memorialized white farmers
who were killed.
The Trump administration has used the rhetoric of a fringe politician and >>>>South Africas endemic violence as justification for allowing white South >>>>Africans to apply to become refugees in the United States
Fifty-nine people. The same people who had no problem with Biden
throwing open the border and allowing 15 *million* to flood into the >>>country unchecked and unvetted, breaking the budgets of the major
cities, are suddenly running for the fainting couch over 59 people
for no other reason than that they're white.
It doesn't matter if Trump let them in. I am in favor of immigration,
and deporting immigrants convicted of felonies.
Trump can and should be criticized for claiming they were refugees
lacking evidence of ethnic cleansing or whatever. The crosses weren't a >>burial site but a makeshift memorial to a local family that had been
killed in a disaster, not ethnic cleansing,
He's doing it as a favor to Elon Musk.
Do you know that for a fact or are you just assuming because Musk was
born in South Africa and obviously has Trump's ear on some matters?
Trump ended the special status for Venezuelans. Why the fuck is he
sending people back who were forced to leave, REJECTING communism? THey >>couldn't be said to be coming to America to change our society. They
would have thrived here. Many of them would have met refugee status
better than these farmers.
I can't help but agree with you on that. The Venezuelans are at risk if
they go home. (The Haitians are too.) I don't know if the Venezuelans
will get a chance to skedaddle over the border into adjacent countries
like Columbia like so many of their compatriots or if Madura will arrest
them when they land and put them straight into jail.
It's fair for you to call out hypocrisy in others, but you might have
also called out Trump's hypocrisy with regard to the Venesualens,
Freedom Fighters to argue that South Africa is engaged in genocide against >>>>white farmers, a contention that seemed to baffle Malemas main political >>>>rival, Ramaphosa, during his Oval Office visit. Ramaphosa repeatedly >>>>stressed that EFF is a small minority party.
That doesn't mean the murders and rapes and arsons and theft aren't >>>happening.
Where are the reports? It's just hand waiving right now.
Challenge accepted (even though it wasn't me challenged ;-)
Take a look at this for starters:
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
2025-05-22 1:32 PM, Adam H. Kerman:
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
May 22, 2025 at 6:32:48 AM PDT, "Marmalade King" <x@y.com> wrote:
Evan Vucci / The Associated Press
By Nicholas Riccardi, Ali Swenson And Mogomotsi Magome The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) President Donald Trump confronted South African President >>>>> Cyril Ramaphosa on Wednesday with claims that white farmers are being >>>>> targeted and killed in the country.
Trumps main evidence, compiled in a video shown during their Oval Office >>>>> meeting: Speeches by a politician who was kicked out of Ramaphosas party, >>>>> is not part of the coalition that governs the country and whose own
political movement garnered less than 10% of the vote in last years
elections.
President Donald Trump and South Africa's president exchanged tense
words in the Oval Office Wednedsay over Trump's baseless claims of
the systematic killing of white farmers. At one point Trump showed
a video of white crosses, which he said memorialized white farmers
who were killed.
The Trump administration has used the rhetoric of a fringe politician and >>>>> South Africas endemic violence as justification for allowing white South >>>>> Africans to apply to become refugees in the United States
Fifty-nine people. The same people who had no problem with Biden
throwing open the border and allowing 15 *million* to flood into the
country unchecked and unvetted, breaking the budgets of the major
cities, are suddenly running for the fainting couch over 59 people
for no other reason than that they're white.
It doesn't matter if Trump let them in. I am in favor of immigration,
and deporting immigrants convicted of felonies.
Trump can and should be criticized for claiming they were refugees
lacking evidence of ethnic cleansing or whatever. The crosses weren't a
burial site but a makeshift memorial to a local family that had been
killed in a disaster, not ethnic cleansing,
He's doing it as a favor to Elon Musk.
Do you know that for a fact or are you just assuming because Musk was
born in South Africa and obviously has Trump's ear on some matters?
Anything Trump does that ends up being in the interest of justice is
mere happenstance.
There have been plenty of news reports that Musk had personally lobbied
Trump on this issue. No, I don't believe Trump learned of these reports independently of Musk or would have cared if not for Musk.
I'm toning down my own rhetoric here. Since BTR1701 raised a couple of points, I looked for and read newspaper coverage. Yes, there does appear
to be a very serious issue.
Trump ended the special status for Venezuelans. Why the fuck is he
sending people back who were forced to leave, REJECTING communism? THey
couldn't be said to be coming to America to change our society. They
would have thrived here. Many of them would have met refugee status
better than these farmers.
I can't help but agree with you on that. The Venezuelans are at risk if
they go home. (The Haitians are too.) I don't know if the Venezuelans
will get a chance to skedaddle over the border into adjacent countries
like Columbia like so many of their compatriots or if Madura will arrest
them when they land and put them straight into jail.
They're screwed.
It's fair for you to call out hypocrisy in others, but you might have
also called out Trump's hypocrisy with regard to the Venesualens,
Freedom Fighters to argue that South Africa is engaged in genocide against
white farmers, a contention that seemed to baffle Malemas main political >>>>> rival, Ramaphosa, during his Oval Office visit. Ramaphosa repeatedly >>>>> stressed that EFF is a small minority party.
That doesn't mean the murders and rapes and arsons and theft aren't
happening.
Where are the reports? It's just hand waiving right now.
Challenge accepted (even though it wasn't me challenged ;-)
Take a look at this for starters:
Heh. My challenge was to Trump, not BTR1701.
But in writing a subsequent
followup, I had found newspaper stories.
I'll watch the stuff you found later. Thank you.
On May 22, 2025 at 3:59:12 PM PDT, "super70s" <super70s@super70s.invalid> >wrote:
On 2025-05-22 17:12:13 +0000, BTR1701 said:
On May 22, 2025 at 9:00:45 AM PDT, "super70s" <super70s@super70s.invalid> >>> wrote:
In article <100ncn3$3gior$2@dont-email.me>,
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
Foolish old Orange Grandpa playing "fake news" while churlishly >chastising
an experienced reporter. An international embarassment, every fscking day.
No world leader is going to want to meet with him (with the exception of >>>> autocracies like the one he's hellbent to turn the US into). They don't >>>> want to be a pawn in his messaging to his base. Also they have their own >>>> constituents back home to consider.
Maybe him and Vance and Rubio can sit around in the Oval Office alone >>>> and lament the tragedy of American democracy.
Despite your inaccurate description of the U.S. as a democracy,
<roll eyes> One of those "America is a republic not a democracy" freaks.
<burps> Yeah, one of those "let's call things what they actually are" freaks.
The U.S. is much more preferable than a democracy. Democracy as a form of >government is only slightly better than a dictatorship. Reduced down to its >essentials democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >The sheep isn't gonna like the result of that election even though it was >arrived at democratically.
last I checked, we're still having elections and the current crew are there
because
they were voted in 'democratically'. I see no evidence that 'democracy' has
disappeared.
The US is now classified as a "deficient democracy," number 36 in a
ranking of 176 countries.
Classified by whom? What are their credentials? What are their biases? Why is >their opinion supposed to be considered fact?
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
On May 22, 2025 at 3:59:12 PM PDT, "super70s" <super70s@super70s.invalid>
wrote:
On 2025-05-22 17:12:13 +0000, BTR1701 said:chastising
On May 22, 2025 at 9:00:45 AM PDT, "super70s" <super70s@super70s.invalid>
wrote:
In article <100ncn3$3gior$2@dont-email.me>,
Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
Foolish old Orange Grandpa playing "fake news" while churlishly
<burps> Yeah, one of those "let's call things what they actually are" freaks.an experienced reporter. An international embarassment, every fscking day.
No world leader is going to want to meet with him (with the exception of
autocracies like the one he's hellbent to turn the US into). They don't >>>>> want to be a pawn in his messaging to his base. Also they have their own
constituents back home to consider.
Maybe him and Vance and Rubio can sit around in the Oval Office alone >>>>> and lament the tragedy of American democracy.
Despite your inaccurate description of the U.S. as a democracy,
<roll eyes> One of those "America is a republic not a democracy" freaks. >>
The U.S. is much more preferable than a democracy. Democracy as a form of
government is only slightly better than a dictatorship. Reduced down to its >> essentials democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >> The sheep isn't gonna like the result of that election even though it was
arrived at democratically.
last I checked, we're still having elections and the current crew are there
because
they were voted in 'democratically'. I see no evidence that 'democracy' has
disappeared.
The US is now classified as a "deficient democracy," number 36 in a
ranking of 176 countries.
Classified by whom? What are their credentials? What are their biases? Why is
their opinion supposed to be considered fact?
They put it to a vote.
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
May 22, 2025 at 10:32:15 AM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
May 22, 2025 at 6:32:48 AM PDT, "Marmalade King" <x@y.com> wrote:
Evan Vucci / The Associated Press
By Nicholas Riccardi, Ali Swenson And Mogomotsi Magome
The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) President Donald Trump confronted South African President >>>>>Cyril Ramaphosa on Wednesday with claims that white farmers are being >>>>>targeted and killed in the country.
Trumps main evidence, compiled in a video shown during their Oval Office >>>>>meeting: Speeches by a politician who was kicked out of Ramaphosas party, >>>>>is not part of the coalition that governs the country and whose own >>>>>political movement garnered less than 10% of the vote in last years >>>>>elections.
President Donald Trump and South Africa's president exchanged tense >>>>>words in the Oval Office Wednedsay over Trump's baseless claims of >>>>>the systematic killing of white farmers. At one point Trump showed
a video of white crosses, which he said memorialized white farmers >>>>>who were killed.
The Trump administration has used the rhetoric of a fringe politician and >>>>>South Africas endemic violence as justification for allowing white South >>>>>Africans to apply to become refugees in the United States
Fifty-nine people. The same people who had no problem with Biden >>>>throwing open the border and allowing 15 *million* to flood into the >>>>country unchecked and unvetted, breaking the budgets of the major >>>>cities, are suddenly running for the fainting couch over 59 people
for no other reason than that they're white.
It doesn't matter if Trump let them in. I am in favor of immigration,
and deporting immigrants convicted of felonies.
Trump can and should be criticized for claiming they were refugees >>>lacking evidence of ethnic cleansing or whatever. The crosses weren't a >>>burial site but a makeshift memorial to a local family that had been >>>killed in a disaster, not ethnic cleansing,
South Africa passed a law that allows for the seizure of land from white >>people, without compensation, and its transfer to black people. That's >>government oppression on the basis of skin color. It's exactly what the >>refugee system was designed for.
That makes them asylum seekers, which is different than a refugee. Now
that I've said that, I should have said that the Venezualans are asylum >seekers, at least the many there were here due to oppression by the
Marxist government.
Since you brought this to my attention, I found a BBC news article that >confirms that the law is as you describe it. Maybe they do meet the >definition of asylum seekers.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg9w4n6gp5o
Here's an explainer.
https://www.jurist.org/features/2025/02/11/explainer-understanding-the-south-africa-land-reform-law-that-provoked-trumps-ire/
If land reform and not Zimbabwe-style land redistribution, which led to >almost complete economic collapse and starvation, is what was desired, >there's no need for eminent domain. There are fair and straightforward
ways to put potentially productive land back into productive use without >expropriation which is literally the name of the new law. Pay a portion
of economic rent -- the land's potential income due to natural resources
and access to markets -- to society. Then there can be tenant farmers.
Obviously I don't want land held out of productive use, but to use it as
an excuse for eminent domain without just compensation is unjust.
The murdering and raping and violence (encouraged by a significant number of >>the country's politicians with a wink and a nod) are just the cherry on that >>shit sundae.
I found an article about this, too. People are suspicious that there is
an attack upon the food production sector of the South African economy
and, indirectly, descendants of Afrikaaners still holding much of the
best tracts of land. But if there is a violent attack, they've found
that the family will stop production within five years.
The implictation is that a crisis is being deliberately precipitated
and, with the new law, the justifications for the land expropriations
have been artificially created.
Ok. I'm starting to sound paranoid.
FARM SLAUGHTER
Female farmers sexually assaulted, tortured and murdered
in latest horrific attacks on South Africas white farm workers
by Jon Rogers and Jamie Pyatt
The Sun
Published: 18:24, 5 Oct 2020
Updated: 18:24, 5 Oct 2020 >https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12852875/farm-workers-torture-murder-south-africa/
. . .
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
On May 22, 2025 at 6:32:48 AM PDT, "Marmalade King" <x@y.com> wrote:
Evan Vucci / The Associated Press
By Nicholas Riccardi, Ali Swenson And Mogomotsi Magome The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) President Donald Trump confronted South African President >>>Cyril Ramaphosa on Wednesday with claims that white farmers are being >>>targeted and killed in the country.
Trumps main evidence, compiled in a video shown during their Oval Office >>>meeting: Speeches by a politician who was kicked out of Ramaphosas party, >>>is not part of the coalition that governs the country and whose own >>>political movement garnered less than 10% of the vote in last years >>>elections.
President Donald Trump and South Africa's president exchanged tense words >>>in the Oval Office Wednedsay over Trump's baseless claims of the systematic >>>killing of white farmers. At one point Trump showed a video of white >>>crosses, which he said memorialized white farmers who were killed.
The Trump administration has used the rhetoric of a fringe politician and >>>South Africas endemic violence as justification for allowing white South >>>Africans to apply to become refugees in the United States
Fifty-nine people. The same people who had no problem with Biden throwing open
the border and allowing 15 *million* to flood into the country unchecked and >>unvetted, breaking the budgets of the major cities, are suddenly running for >>the fainting couch over 59 people for no other reason than that they're >>white.
It doesn't matter if Trump let them in. I am in favor of immigration,
and deporting immigrants convicted of felonies.
Trump can and should be criticized for claiming they were refugees
lacking evidence of ethnic cleansing or whatever. The crosses weren't a >burial site but a makeshift memorial to a local family that had been
killed in a disaster, not ethnic cleansing,
He's doing it as a favor to Elon Musk.
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