Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in >> figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 23:02:52 -0400, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in >>> figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
That's not the point of this sort of video. It's to gin up anger over
a potential issue and the made up consequences. Note the things she
fears aren't being discussed.
The reason the idea has been brought up for some years now is to
change from a gasoline tax to a mileage tax. All because electric
vehicles don't use gasoline so they never pay the road tax but do use
the roads.
It does seem like at some point we are going to have to move away from
the gasoline tax. (Assuming we continue to move to electric vehicles.)
A road use tax is perhaps the fairest alternative solution. Though I
suppose we could have an additional yearly vehicle tax, but that's not
fair to those that don't drive as much.
The reason the idea has been brought up for some years now is to
change from a gasoline tax to a mileage tax. All because electric
vehicles don't use gasoline so they never pay the road tax but do use
the roads.
It does seem like at some point we are going to have to move away from
the gasoline tax. (Assuming we continue to move to electric vehicles.)
A road use tax is perhaps the fairest alternative solution. Though I
suppose we could have an additional yearly vehicle tax, but that's not
fair to those that don't drive as much.
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested
in figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
That's not the point of this sort of video. It's to gin up anger over
a potential issue and the made up consequences.
The reason the idea has been brought up for some years now is to
change from a gasoline tax to a mileage tax. All because electric
vehicles don't use gasoline so they never pay the road tax but do use
the roads.
It does seem like at some point we are going to have to move away from
the gasoline tax. (Assuming we continue to move to electric vehicles.)
A road use tax is perhaps the fairest alternative solution. Though I
suppose we could have an additional yearly vehicle tax, but that's not
fair to those that don't drive as much.
Thu, 14 Aug 2025 23:02:52 -0400, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>:
8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in >>>figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
That's not the point of this sort of video. It's to gin up anger over
a potential issue and the made up consequences. Note the things she
fears aren't being discussed.
The reason the idea has been brought up for some years now is to
change from a gasoline tax to a mileage tax. All because electric
vehicles don't use gasoline so they never pay the road tax but do use
the roads.
It does seem like at some point we are going to have to move away from
the gasoline tax. (Assuming we continue to move to electric vehicles.)
A road use tax is perhaps the fairest alternative solution. Though I
suppose we could have an additional yearly vehicle tax, but that's not
fair to those that don't drive as much.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 23:02:52 -0400, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in >>> figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
That's not the point of this sort of video. It's to gin up anger over
a potential issue and the made up consequences. Note the things she
fears aren't being discussed.
The reason the idea has been brought up for some years now is to
change from a gasoline tax to a mileage tax. All because electric
vehicles don't use gasoline so they never pay the road tax but do use
the roads.
It does seem like at some point we are going to have to move away from
the gasoline tax. (Assuming we continue to move to electric vehicles.)
A road use tax is perhaps the fairest alternative solution. Though I
suppose we could have an additional yearly vehicle tax, but that's not
fair to those that don't drive as much.
In <lnat9k53f62qitlgghqav6oqveqqlsq8bo@4ax.com> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> writes:
[snip]
The reason the idea has been brought up for some years now is to
change from a gasoline tax to a mileage tax. All because electric
vehicles don't use gasoline so they never pay the road tax but do use
the roads.
It does seem like at some point we are going to have to move away from
the gasoline tax. (Assuming we continue to move to electric vehicles.)
A road use tax is perhaps the fairest alternative solution. Though I
suppose we could have an additional yearly vehicle tax, but that's not
fair to those that don't drive as much.
so-called "alternative" taxing is already being phased in.
Some states charge a higher registration fee for electric
veh's (some also consider "plug in hybrids" in that catefory).
And some also add extra sales taxes on electricity when it's
used for car charging. In Michigan, for example, there's
a six percent tax if you use a commercial charger.
(I have no idea if/how they monitor this if you charge
up at home).
On Aug 14, 2025 at 8:39:57 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> >wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 23:02:52 -0400, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in
figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
That's not the point of this sort of video. It's to gin up anger over
a potential issue and the made up consequences. Note the things she
fears aren't being discussed.
They're certainly being discussed here in California. The state assembly has >all sorts of plans for controlling driving. Dynamic mileage pricing based on >where and when you're driving-- i.e., jacking the coast of miles driven on >commuter corridors during the morning and evening hours to price people out of >driving their cars to work and back and forcing them onto city buses-- and >yes, a yearly mileage cap for driving altogether, with proposed fines and >points on your license for going over the state limit on mileage. How that >applies to miles driven in another state is still a mystery. Will miles I >drive in Texas or Florida count toward my yearly limit? If I take the family >on vacation to Orlando, am I going to be cited and have my driver license put >in jeopardy?
The reason the idea has been brought up for some years now is to
change from a gasoline tax to a mileage tax. All because electric
vehicles don't use gasoline so they never pay the road tax but do use
the roads.
It does seem like at some point we are going to have to move away from
the gasoline tax. (Assuming we continue to move to electric vehicles.)
A road use tax is perhaps the fairest alternative solution. Though I
suppose we could have an additional yearly vehicle tax, but that's not
fair to those that don't drive as much.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a straight mileage tax with three >stipulations:
(1) It replaces the gas tax, not just piled on top of it. And none of this >maximum number of miles per year allowed bullshit, either.
(2) There's no GPS tracking element to it which they can use to socially >engineer your behavior, like with the commuter example above. Just a straight >odometer reading from one year to the next.
(3) Miles driven out of state do not count in the calculations. California has >no right to tax me for driving in New Mexico.
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in >> figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
. . .
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a straight mileage tax with three >stipulations:
(1) It replaces the gas tax, not just piled on top of it. And none of this >maximum number of miles per year allowed bullshit, either.
(2) There's no GPS tracking element to it which they can use to socially >engineer your behavior, like with the commuter example above. Just a
straight odometer reading from one year to the next.
(3) Miles driven out of state do not count in the calculations. California >has no right to tax me for driving in New Mexico.
Aug 14, 2025 at 8:02:52 PM PDT, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in >>>figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
There is no legitimate rationale for the government to dictate to me how many >miles I'm allowed to drive with my own car.
On Aug 14, 2025 at 8:02:52 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in
figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
There is no legitimate rationale for the government to dictate to me how many miles I'm allowed to drive with my own car.
My electric company, Salt River Project, keeps trying to get me to sign up >for a program where the electricity they deliver me will only come from
green sources. I’d love to know how they do that shy of running a dedicated >line from the most dangerous nuclear plant in the country directly to my >house.
On Aug 15, 2025 at 2:06:49 AM PDT, "danny burstein" <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
In <lnat9k53f62qitlgghqav6oqveqqlsq8bo@4ax.com> shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> writes:
[snip]
The reason the idea has been brought up for some years now is to
change from a gasoline tax to a mileage tax. All because electric
vehicles don't use gasoline so they never pay the road tax but do use
the roads.
It does seem like at some point we are going to have to move away from
the gasoline tax. (Assuming we continue to move to electric vehicles.)
A road use tax is perhaps the fairest alternative solution. Though I
suppose we could have an additional yearly vehicle tax, but that's not
fair to those that don't drive as much.
so-called "alternative" taxing is already being phased in.
Some states charge a higher registration fee for electric
veh's (some also consider "plug in hybrids" in that catefory).
And some also add extra sales taxes on electricity when it's
used for car charging. In Michigan, for example, there's
a six percent tax if you use a commercial charger.
(I have no idea if/how they monitor this if you charge
up at home).
They can distinguish the electricity you're using to charge your car because that's artificial electricity, whereas the electricity you use to power your house is natural electricity.
On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 23:02:52 -0400, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in >>> figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
That's not the point of this sort of video. It's to gin up anger over
a potential issue and the made up consequences. Note the things she
fears aren't being discussed.
The reason the idea has been brought up for some years now is to
change from a gasoline tax to a mileage tax. All because electric
vehicles don't use gasoline so they never pay the road tax but do use
the roads.
It does seem like at some point we are going to have to move away from
the gasoline tax. (Assuming we continue to move to electric vehicles.)
A road use tax is perhaps the fairest alternative solution. Though I
suppose we could have an additional yearly vehicle tax, but that's not
fair to those that don't drive as much.
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a straight mileage tax with three
stipulations:
(1) It replaces the gas tax, not just piled on top of it. And none of this >> maximum number of miles per year allowed bullshit, either.
(2) There's no GPS tracking element to it which they can use to socially
engineer your behavior, like with the commuter example above. Just a
straight odometer reading from one year to the next.
(3) Miles driven out of state do not count in the calculations. California >> has no right to tax me for driving in New Mexico.
You won't support this unless your privacy concerns are addressed. You
raised this with me years ago and there's no way to address ir.
You don't want to be tracked by GPS but there are plenty of other ways
to track. There's no way to track without something with a serial number
to track. On the tollway around here, they use license plate readers.
On 8/15/2025 2:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 14, 2025 at 8:02:52 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: >>
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in
figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
There is no legitimate rationale for the government to dictate to me how
many
miles I'm allowed to drive with my own car.
Highways/roads comprise infrastructure that all of society relies on. Accordingly, general measures to keep it functional should be allowed to government.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 18:29:11 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 14, 2025 at 8:39:57 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> >> wrote:Given the issues in California I would expect the limits would apply
On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 23:02:52 -0400, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in
figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
That's not the point of this sort of video. It's to gin up anger over
a potential issue and the made up consequences. Note the things she
fears aren't being discussed.
They're certainly being discussed here in California. The state assembly has >> all sorts of plans for controlling driving. Dynamic mileage pricing based on >> where and when you're driving-- i.e., jacking the coast of miles driven on >> commuter corridors during the morning and evening hours to price people out >> of
driving their cars to work and back and forcing them onto city buses-- and >> yes, a yearly mileage cap for driving altogether, with proposed fines and
points on your license for going over the state limit on mileage. How that >> applies to miles driven in another state is still a mystery. Will miles I
drive in Texas or Florida count toward my yearly limit? If I take the family >> on vacation to Orlando, am I going to be cited and have my driver license put
in jeopardy?
in some areas (like in Los Angeles or San Francisco) but not in others
(say around Barstow.) After all there's not much of a congestion in
much of eastern California.
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative
ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a straight mileage tax with three
stipulations:
(1) It replaces the gas tax, not just piled on top of it. And none of this >> maximum number of miles per year allowed bullshit, either.
Yes, that is a given. Though certainly not a given in California with
their love of taxes.
(2) There's no GPS tracking element to it which they can use to socially
engineer your behavior, like with the commuter example above. Just a straight
odometer reading from one year to the next.
I don't think that's going to be allowed given that people can
manipulate the odometer. Hell, I did it myself unintentionally with a
new car when the odometer failed (went from about 30 to over 100
before falling back to 0). So I can see a desire to use a state
mandated GPS.
Or perhaps there would be a more secure monitoring
device than the standard odometer that would have to be designed and
then installed on every Californian vehicle.
(3) Miles driven out of state do not count in the calculations. California >> has
no right to tax me for driving in New Mexico.
That's only going to be possible with a GPS.
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:57:06 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/15/2025 2:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 14, 2025 at 8:02:52 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: >>>
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in
figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
There is no legitimate rationale for the government to dictate to me how >>> many
miles I'm allowed to drive with my own car.
Highways/roads comprise infrastructure that all of society relies on.
Accordingly, general measures to keep it functional should be allowed to
government.
Somehow we've kept it functional for the better part of a century without the need for an Orwellian panopticon or state-mandated limitations on the right to
travel.
Maybe you think begging some government apparatchik for permission to travel to your mom's funeral three states over is a legitimate use of government power but I don't think you'd find too many non-collectivists who'd agree with
you.
Aug 15, 2025 at 12:41:33 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a straight mileage tax with three >>>stipulations:
(1) It replaces the gas tax, not just piled on top of it. And none of this >>>maximum number of miles per year allowed bullshit, either.
(2) There's no GPS tracking element to it which they can use to socially >>>engineer your behavior, like with the commuter example above. Just a >>>straight odometer reading from one year to the next.
(3) Miles driven out of state do not count in the calculations. California >>>has no right to tax me for driving in New Mexico.
You won't support this unless your privacy concerns are addressed. You >>raised this with me years ago and there's no way to address ir.
You don't want to be tracked by GPS but there are plenty of other ways
to track. There's no way to track without something with a serial number
to track. On the tollway around here, they use license plate readers.
That's a good idea. They can put ALPRs at every major state line crossing
and make it clear if you want to use an out-of-state mileage exemption on >your taxes, you have to cross at one of those points. The system reads
your tag going out and then again when it returns. Combine that with
what I just posted to shawn: You sign on your tax return under penalty
of perjury that you took a trip out of state during certain dates and
that your odometer reading when you crossed the California state line
going out was X and it was Y when you came back the other way. It would
be easy enough to prove the trip with restaurant and hotel receipts (and
the ALPR logs) during the time in question should the state audit you.
Another option would be those truck weigh stations and produce checkpoints >that already exist at every state line crossing. They could require you to >stop in there and have your odometer officially certified when you leave and >when you return.
There are ways of doing it that don't result in a massive government >panopticon of constant surveillance of every citizen's movements.
On 8/15/2025 5:01 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:57:06 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: >>
On 8/15/2025 2:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 14, 2025 at 8:02:52 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be
interested in
figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
There is no legitimate rationale for the government to dictate to me how >>>> many miles I'm allowed to drive with my own car.
Highways/roads comprise infrastructure that all of society relies on.
Accordingly, general measures to keep it functional should be allowed to >>> government.
Somehow we've kept it functional for the better part of a century without >> the
need for an Orwellian panopticon or state-mandated limitations on the right >> to
travel.
Maybe you think begging some government apparatchik for permission to travel
to your mom's funeral three states over is a legitimate use of government >> power but I don't think you'd find too many non-collectivists who'd agree >> with
you.
So, since we've kept breathing without such measures, we'll never need
them.
And even if we do get them, they'll actually be commie pry bars.
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> >wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 18:29:11 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 14, 2025 at 8:39:57 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> >>> wrote:Given the issues in California I would expect the limits would apply
On Thu, 14 Aug 2025 23:02:52 -0400, moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be interested in
figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
That's not the point of this sort of video. It's to gin up anger over >>>> a potential issue and the made up consequences. Note the things she
fears aren't being discussed.
They're certainly being discussed here in California. The state assembly has
all sorts of plans for controlling driving. Dynamic mileage pricing based on
where and when you're driving-- i.e., jacking the coast of miles driven on >>> commuter corridors during the morning and evening hours to price people out >>> of
driving their cars to work and back and forcing them onto city buses-- and >>> yes, a yearly mileage cap for driving altogether, with proposed fines and >>> points on your license for going over the state limit on mileage. How that >>> applies to miles driven in another state is still a mystery. Will miles I >>> drive in Texas or Florida count toward my yearly limit? If I take the family
on vacation to Orlando, am I going to be cited and have my driver license put
in jeopardy?
in some areas (like in Los Angeles or San Francisco) but not in others
(say around Barstow.) After all there's not much of a congestion in
much of eastern California.
Every now and then when I have the Google Maps plot me a route somewhere, out >of curiosity, I switch over from the default car route and tap the little bus >icon to see what would be involved in taking public transportation to the same >place. It's almost always three to four times longer of a trip than driving >there. And often it's much more than that.
A trip from my house in the South Bay to the Angeles Forest Shooting Range >takes about 50 minutes by car. By bus? Four 1/2 hours. And that's just one >way. And it doesn't even get me to the range. I'd still have to call an Uber >to drive me the final five miles up into the mountains to get to the range >because buses don't go there.
So a trip to the Valley for something like a doctor's appointment would >require a minimum allotment of 9 frakking hours just for travel time. Add in >the time actually spent at the doctor and you're looking at something like a >12-hour ordeal. And if your appointment is at say, 8:00AM, you'd have to leave >your house at 3:30 in the morning just to get there on time.
But the elites like Newsom who will never take a bus or a commuter train in >their lives think forcing that on us is perfectly fine.
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative
ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start >prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of >stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
No one in their right
mind would get on one of those mobile crime factories. We've even had two >immolations on the light rail. People just sitting there trying to get home >after a long day at work, and here comes the schizophrenic vagrant with a >thermos full of gasoline and a lit match and their day suddenly goes from bad >to much worse. The city's response to all this crime has been to pull cops off >the Metro system entirely and replace them with unarmed "security >ambassadors", as if it's the police who are the problem, so things are going >as well as you might expect with nothing but "progressive' Democrats in >charge.
The buses and trains here are also literally teeming with homeless bums who >use them as their daily shelter. They lay all over the benches and seats >sleeping, doing drugs, or drinking themselves into a stupor, the cars reek >from their body odor and urine, and they spread cholera and hepatitis. That's >when they're not begging you for money (in many cases aggressively demanding >it), or relieving themselves in the corner. And, of course, many of them are >also mentally ill and will unpredictably attack you for no reason.
The city allows all this to happen then wonders why no one normal wants to >give up the pleasant environment and safety of their car to descend into that >nightmare just to go to work and back every day?
Back around 2013 when the federal budget sequestration was triggered and all >federal agencies were required to cut spending by 10%, one of the ways my >agency met the goal was to require all of us with take-home cars to park them >two days out of every work week. We had to either drive our own cars, carpool >with other employees, or find some other way to work.
I knew there was a subway station at the bottom of my building, so I figured >I'd take the train and get some reading in or listen to music. I found the >Beach Cities station, drove to it, got on the train, and after about 15 >minutes, slowly began to realize I hadn't done my due diligence. To get from >where I lived to downtown, the train made a direct route through Watts, >Compton, and South Central. It wasn't long before I was the only white guy on >the train, and certainly the only one in a suit and tie. I couldn't have stood >out more if there'd been a neon-red sign flashing over my head that said, >"Victim".
At the Watts station, a group of youts with blue bandanas (Crips) boarded the >train, took one look me and thought Christmas came early. It took a few >minutes for them to do anything because they probably thought the whole thing >was too good to be true and it might be some kind of trap. Finally two of them >broke off and started sauntering down the aisle toward me with big shit-eating >grins on their faces. One of them slid a switch-knife from his pocket. I >pulled my suit jacket aside so that my badge and gun were plainly visible. One >of them immediately turned around and walked the other way. The other one >stood there sizing me up, thinking he still might have a chance, so I snapped >the retention strap on my gun, slid it out of the holster, and cocked it. He >spit in my direction, said "Fuck your bitch ass" and returned to his friends. >I exited the train at the next stop, called an Uber to take me the rest of th >eway to work, and have never set foot on the train system since. And the >politicians never want to address this simple fact of life as they come up >with their plots to mold our commuting behavior.
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a straight mileage tax with three
stipulations:
(1) It replaces the gas tax, not just piled on top of it. And none of this >>> maximum number of miles per year allowed bullshit, either.
Yes, that is a given. Though certainly not a given in California with
their love of taxes.
(2) There's no GPS tracking element to it which they can use to socially >>> engineer your behavior, like with the commuter example above. Just a straight
odometer reading from one year to the next.
I don't think that's going to be allowed given that people can
manipulate the odometer. Hell, I did it myself unintentionally with a
new car when the odometer failed (went from about 30 to over 100
before falling back to 0). So I can see a desire to use a state
mandated GPS.
And let me guess, those of us with vehicles old enough that they don't have >all the modern built-in tracking gizmos will have to have equipment installed >on our vehicles... at our own expense of course.
Citizens have to pay for the privilege of having the government surveil their >every move. Orwell is orgasming in his grave.
Or perhaps there would be a more secure monitoring
device than the standard odometer that would have to be designed and
then installed on every Californian vehicle.
(3) Miles driven out of state do not count in the calculations. California >>> has
no right to tax me for driving in New Mexico.
That's only going to be possible with a GPS.
No, you can sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury that you took a trip >out of state during certain dates and that your odometer reading when you >crossed the California state line going out was X and it was Y when you came >back the other way. It would be easy enough to prove with restaurant and hotel >receipts during the time in question should the state audit you.
In <1799857072.776980593.879608.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> writes:
[snip]
My electric company, Salt River Project, keeps trying to get me to sign up >> for a program where the electricity they deliver me will only come from
green sources. I’d love to know how they do that shy of running a dedicated
line from the most dangerous nuclear plant in the country directly to my
house.
More dangerous than Bessie-Davis?
danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
In <1799857072.776980593.879608.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> writes:
[snip]
My electric company, Salt River Project, keeps trying to get me to sign up >>> for a program where the electricity they deliver me will only come from
green sources. I’d love to know how they do that shy of running a dedicated
line from the most dangerous nuclear plant in the country directly to my >>> house.
More dangerous than Bessie-Davis?
At one point, Palo Verde held the record for most fines and safety
violations in the country.
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:41:17 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/15/2025 5:01 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:57:06 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/15/2025 2:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 14, 2025 at 8:02:52 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be >>>>>>> interested in
figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale?
There is no legitimate rationale for the government to dictate to me how
many miles I'm allowed to drive with my own car.
Highways/roads comprise infrastructure that all of society relies on. >>>> Accordingly, general measures to keep it functional should be allowed to >>>> government.
Somehow we've kept it functional for the better part of a century without >>> the
need for an Orwellian panopticon or state-mandated limitations on the right
to
travel.
Maybe you think begging some government apparatchik for permission to travel
to your mom's funeral three states over is a legitimate use of government >>> power but I don't think you'd find too many non-collectivists who'd agree >>> with
you.
So, since we've kept breathing without such measures, we'll never need
them.
No, we do not need to limit the amount of miles a person is allowed to drive. That's simply not something California needs. It may be something that its more communist-inclined politicians *want*, but it does not need it and it will never need it.
And even if we do get them, they'll actually be commie pry bars.
Kinda hard for a "we have to surveil and limit your every move for the good of
the state" system to be anything but.
On 8/15/2025 6:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:41:17 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: >>
On 8/15/2025 5:01 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:57:06 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/15/2025 2:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 14, 2025 at 8:02:52 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:There is no legitimate rationale for the government to dictate to me how
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be >>>>>>>> interested in
figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale? >>>>>>
many miles I'm allowed to drive with my own car.
Highways/roads comprise infrastructure that all of society relies on. >>>>> Accordingly, general measures to keep it functional should be allowed to
government.
Somehow we've kept it functional for the better part of a century without
the need for an Orwellian panopticon or state-mandated limitations on the >>>> right
to travel.
Maybe you think begging some government apparatchik for permission to >>>> travel
to your mom's funeral three states over is a legitimate use of government
power but I don't think you'd find too many non-collectivists who'd agree
with you.
So, since we've kept breathing without such measures, we'll never need
them.
No, we do not need to limit the amount of miles a person is allowed to
drive.
That's simply not something California needs. It may be something that its >> more communist-inclined politicians *want*, but it does not need it and it >> will never need it.
And even if we do get them, they'll actually be commie pry bars.
Kinda hard for a "we have to surveil and limit your every move for the good >> of
the state" system to be anything but.
Don't LA's freeways regularly congest into parking lots? How can
something like that be addressed without triggering Red Menace paranoia?
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> >> wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative
ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start >> prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of
stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere.
Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
The buses and trains here are also literally teeming with homeless bums who >> use them as their daily shelter. They lay all over the benches and seats
sleeping, doing drugs, or drinking themselves into a stupor, the cars reek >> from their body odor and urine, and they spread cholera and hepatitis. That's
when they're not begging you for money (in many cases aggressively demanding >> it), or relieving themselves in the corner. And, of course, many of them are >> also mentally ill and will unpredictably attack you for no reason.
The city allows all this to happen then wonders why no one normal wants to >> give up the pleasant environment and safety of their car to descend into that
nightmare just to go to work and back every day?
I get that there's a homeless problem and drug addiction, but you can
never solve it by ignoring it. It's similar to what is supposedly
happening in DC but with a different result. Supposedly the reason for
all this action in DC is that Trump ended up having to see a number of homeless during a recent trip (to the Kennedy Center?) and decided to
get rid of them. Not by actually solving the problem, but at least
they were taking some action. Los Angeles needs to take some action in
order to make the city more live able for the majority of people.
(3) Miles driven out of state do not count in the calculations. California
has no right to tax me for driving in New Mexico.
That's only going to be possible with a GPS.
No, you can sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury that you took a trip >> out of state during certain dates and that your odometer reading when you
crossed the California state line going out was X and it was Y when you came >> back the other way. It would be easy enough to prove with restaurant and
hotel
receipts during the time in question should the state audit you.
That would require a number of additional people just to handle the
paper work. Easier just to have you install a government mandated GPS
so that's the most likely solution.
On 8/15/2025 6:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:41:17 PM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/15/2025 5:01 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:57:06 PM PDT, "moviePig"
<nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/15/2025 2:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:Somehow we've kept it functional for the better part of a century
On Aug 14, 2025 at 8:02:52 PM PDT, "moviePig"
<nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/14/2025 8:10 PM, BTR1701 wrote:to me how
Interesting that it's mostly the blue states that seem to be
interested in
figuring out ways to control people's movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTywXmcASY
Have you examined the possibility of a legitimate rationale? >>>>>> There is no legitimate rationale for the government to dictate
many miles I'm allowed to drive with my own car.
Highways/roads comprise infrastructure that all of society relies >>>>> on.
Accordingly, general measures to keep it functional should be
allowed to
government.
without
the
need for an Orwellian panopticon or state-mandated limitations on
the right
to
travel.
Maybe you think begging some government apparatchik for permission
to travel
to your mom's funeral three states over is a legitimate use of
government
power but I don't think you'd find too many non-collectivists
who'd agree
with
you.
So, since we've kept breathing without such measures, we'll never need
them.
No, we do not need to limit the amount of miles a person is allowed to
drive.
That's simply not something California needs. It may be something that
its
more communist-inclined politicians *want*, but it does not need it
and it
will never need it.
And even if we do get them, they'll actually be commie pry bars.
Kinda hard for a "we have to surveil and limit your every move for the
good of
the state" system to be anything but.
Don't LA's freeways regularly congest into parking lots? How can
something like that be addressed without triggering Red Menace paranoia?
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> >wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative
ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in >>>> the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start >>> prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of >>> stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere.
Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants use >it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving gangs >take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of the Old >West:
https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-50-to-60-teens-swarm-11094745.php
And you also have the almost-weekly mobs of 'progressive'-left protesters, >whose go-to move to promote their grievance du jour is to shut down the BART >system to disrupt commutes.
If you're a commuter relying on BART to get you back and forth from home to >work, it's hardly a great experience.
The buses and trains here are also literally teeming with homeless bums who >>> use them as their daily shelter. They lay all over the benches and seats >>> sleeping, doing drugs, or drinking themselves into a stupor, the cars reek >>> from their body odor and urine, and they spread cholera and hepatitis. That's
when they're not begging you for money (in many cases aggressively demanding
it), or relieving themselves in the corner. And, of course, many of them are
also mentally ill and will unpredictably attack you for no reason.
The city allows all this to happen then wonders why no one normal wants to >>> give up the pleasant environment and safety of their car to descend into that
nightmare just to go to work and back every day?
I get that there's a homeless problem and drug addiction, but you can
never solve it by ignoring it. It's similar to what is supposedly
happening in DC but with a different result. Supposedly the reason for
all this action in DC is that Trump ended up having to see a number of
homeless during a recent trip (to the Kennedy Center?) and decided to
get rid of them. Not by actually solving the problem, but at least
they were taking some action. Los Angeles needs to take some action in
order to make the city more live able for the majority of people.
Well, as Trump is demonstrating, if you're a mayor or city councilman and you >wanted to do something about, you could. The fact that it's been more than 10 >years and billions of dollars in taxes and the only change is that we have >*more* vagrants than we did to start with indicates that the city government >likes the status quo just the way it is. They *want* the city to be a hellish >trash pit.
(3) Miles driven out of state do not count in the calculations. California
has no right to tax me for driving in New Mexico.
That's only going to be possible with a GPS.
No, you can sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury that you took a trip >>> out of state during certain dates and that your odometer reading when you >>> crossed the California state line going out was X and it was Y when you came
back the other way. It would be easy enough to prove with restaurant and >>> hotel
receipts during the time in question should the state audit you.
That would require a number of additional people just to handle the
paper work. Easier just to have you install a government mandated GPS
so that's the most likely solution.
Not just easier but provides them with the kind of control over the citizens >that they lust for. But I'm just pointing out that a government panopticon >isn't the *only* way an out-of-state miles driven exemption can be >implemented, so anyone who says it's necessary is lying.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> >> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative >>>>> ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in >>>>> the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of >>>> stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere.
Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of the Old >> West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor
did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-50-to-60-teens-swarm-11094745.php
And you also have the almost-weekly mobs of 'progressive'-left protesters, >> whose go-to move to promote their grievance du jour is to shut down the BART >> system to disrupt commutes.
If you're a commuter relying on BART to get you back and forth from home to >> work, it's hardly a great experience.
The buses and trains here are also literally teeming with homeless bums who
use them as their daily shelter. They lay all over the benches and seats >>>> sleeping, doing drugs, or drinking themselves into a stupor, the cars reek >>>> from their body odor and urine, and they spread cholera and hepatitis. That's
when they're not begging you for money (in many cases aggressively demanding
it), or relieving themselves in the corner. And, of course, many of them are
also mentally ill and will unpredictably attack you for no reason.
The city allows all this to happen then wonders why no one normal wants to >>>> give up the pleasant environment and safety of their car to descend into that
nightmare just to go to work and back every day?
I get that there's a homeless problem and drug addiction, but you can
never solve it by ignoring it. It's similar to what is supposedly
happening in DC but with a different result. Supposedly the reason for
all this action in DC is that Trump ended up having to see a number of
homeless during a recent trip (to the Kennedy Center?) and decided to
get rid of them. Not by actually solving the problem, but at least
they were taking some action. Los Angeles needs to take some action in
order to make the city more live able for the majority of people.
Well, as Trump is demonstrating, if you're a mayor or city councilman and you
wanted to do something about, you could. The fact that it's been more than 10
years and billions of dollars in taxes and the only change is that we have >> *more* vagrants than we did to start with indicates that the city government >> likes the status quo just the way it is. They *want* the city to be a hellish
trash pit.
(3) Miles driven out of state do not count in the calculations. California
has no right to tax me for driving in New Mexico.
That's only going to be possible with a GPS.
No, you can sign an affidavit under penalty of perjury that you took a trip
out of state during certain dates and that your odometer reading when you >>>> crossed the California state line going out was X and it was Y when you came
back the other way. It would be easy enough to prove with restaurant and >>>> hotel
receipts during the time in question should the state audit you.
That would require a number of additional people just to handle the
paper work. Easier just to have you install a government mandated GPS
so that's the most likely solution.
Not just easier but provides them with the kind of control over the citizens >> that they lust for. But I'm just pointing out that a government panopticon >> isn't the *only* way an out-of-state miles driven exemption can be
implemented, so anyone who says it's necessary is lying.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> >> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative >>>>> ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in >>>>> the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of >>>> stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere.
Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of the Old >> West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor
did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> >>> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative >>>>>> ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in >>>>>> the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of >>>>> stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere. >>>> Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor
did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before >Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:45:40 -0700, suzeeq <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote:
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative >>>>>>> ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of >>>>>> stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere. >>>>> Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor
did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before >>Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare.
Yes, there is a date stamp. This year. All of the videos I watched
were done in the last year. I don't know just how many videos he's
done but I watched at least five that had him using various public
transit always starting in Oakland since that's his home base.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 01:51:11 -0400, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:45:40 -0700, suzeeq <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote:
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative >>>>>>>> ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of
stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere. >>>>>> Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who >>>>>> lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos >>>>>> with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor >>>> did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before
Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare.
Yes, there is a date stamp. This year. All of the videos I watched
were done in the last year. I don't know just how many videos he's
done but I watched at least five that had him using various public
transit always starting in Oakland since that's his home base.
Here is a link to his channel.
https://www.youtube.com/@AdamDoesNotExist/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=2
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative >>>>>> ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of >>>>> stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere. >>>> Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants >>> use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving >>> gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor
did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare.
On Aug 16, 2025 at 8:45:40 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote:
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> >>>>> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative >>>>>>> ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of
stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere. >>>>> Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who >>>>> lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants >>>> use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving >>>> gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor
did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before
Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare.
<sigh> Looks like suzee has fallen for the old Democrat canard of blaming >Reagan for the vagrant apocalypse we're currently experiencing. It's a >convenient way for Democrats, who control all levels of government in the >state, to duck responsibility for the hellscape they've created.
The fact is that Reagan hasn't been governor of California for 50 years. >Democrats have controlled the state for decades since then. If Reagan was the >problem, they could have easily reversed his policies at any time over those >five decades. They have chosen not to, so they cannot legitimately duck >responsibility for their own actions by blaming Reagan.
The fact of the matter is that Los Angeles wasn't a violent trash pit when I >moved here in 2011. There weren't vagrant encampments everywhere. There >weren't guys with machetes running down Hollywood Boulevard threatening >tourists. People who violated the law were, for the most part, arrested and >prosecuted. It all started changing around 2015 with the arrival of Eric >Garcetti and the "democrat socialists" on the city council.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 17:25:19 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 16, 2025 at 8:45:40 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote:
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> >>>>>> wrote:LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn"
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative >>>>>>>> ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of
stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere. >>>>>> Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who >>>>>> lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos >>>>>> with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is >>>>>
use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving
gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of >>>>> the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor >>>> did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before >>> Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare.
<sigh> Looks like suzee has fallen for the old Democrat canard of blaming
Reagan for the vagrant apocalypse we're currently experiencing. It's a
convenient way for Democrats, who control all levels of government in the
state, to duck responsibility for the hellscape they've created.
The fact is that Reagan hasn't been governor of California for 50 years.
Democrats have controlled the state for decades since then. If Reagan was the
problem, they could have easily reversed his policies at any time over those >> five decades. They have chosen not to, so they cannot legitimately duck
responsibility for their own actions by blaming Reagan.
The fact of the matter is that Los Angeles wasn't a violent trash pit when I >> moved here in 2011. There weren't vagrant encampments everywhere. There
weren't guys with machetes running down Hollywood Boulevard threatening
tourists. People who violated the law were, for the most part, arrested and >> prosecuted. It all started changing around 2015 with the arrival of Eric
Garcetti and the "democrat socialists" on the city council.
Things have changed everywhere. Back in 2011 if I wanted to see a few
(and I mean few) homeless I could head into Atlanta. Downtown they
existed but outside of downtown Atlanta they would be hard to find.
Now I see some every day around my local grocery store, which tended
to vary from week to week.
Now there's a group of younger (probably no older than mid 30s) guys
that tend to gather there every morning. Not sure why but when I
walked down to the grocery store this morning (Publix in the strip
mall) there were a few already there and the rest were slowly
gathering when I left at about 7:30AM. So while we don't seem to have
people running around with machetes we do have plenty of homeless even
in a Republican county in a Republican state.
On Aug 17, 2025 at 10:38:35 AM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 17:25:19 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 16, 2025 at 8:45:40 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote:
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> >>>>> wrote:Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid >>>> 1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before >>>> Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare.
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> >>>>>>> wrote:LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn"
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative
ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of
stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere.
Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who >>>>>>> lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around >>>>>>> California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos >>>>>>> with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is >>>>>>
use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving
gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of >>>>>> the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor >>>>> did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in >>>>> Los Angeles.
<sigh> Looks like suzee has fallen for the old Democrat canard of blaming >>> Reagan for the vagrant apocalypse we're currently experiencing. It's a
convenient way for Democrats, who control all levels of government in the >>> state, to duck responsibility for the hellscape they've created.
The fact is that Reagan hasn't been governor of California for 50 years. >>> Democrats have controlled the state for decades since then. If Reagan was the
problem, they could have easily reversed his policies at any time over those
five decades. They have chosen not to, so they cannot legitimately duck
responsibility for their own actions by blaming Reagan.
The fact of the matter is that Los Angeles wasn't a violent trash pit when I
moved here in 2011. There weren't vagrant encampments everywhere. There
weren't guys with machetes running down Hollywood Boulevard threatening
tourists. People who violated the law were, for the most part, arrested and >>> prosecuted. It all started changing around 2015 with the arrival of Eric >>> Garcetti and the "democrat socialists" on the city council.
Things have changed everywhere. Back in 2011 if I wanted to see a few
(and I mean few) homeless I could head into Atlanta. Downtown they
existed but outside of downtown Atlanta they would be hard to find.
Now I see some every day around my local grocery store, which tended
to vary from week to week.
Now there's a group of younger (probably no older than mid 30s) guys
that tend to gather there every morning. Not sure why but when I
walked down to the grocery store this morning (Publix in the strip
mall) there were a few already there and the rest were slowly
gathering when I left at about 7:30AM. So while we don't seem to have
people running around with machetes we do have plenty of homeless even
in a Republican county in a Republican state.
Two years ago I went on a road trip from L.A. to Key West, FL, with stops along the way to visit family in Texas and to hang out in some tourist spots like Bourbon Street in New Orleans. I remember marveling at Miami and how clean and well-kept it seemed to be and the entire time I was there, I saw exactly one vagrant-- a guy pushing a shopping cart down an alley. Other than that nothing. And the tourist areas like Ocean Boulevard in Miami Beach were heavily patrolled with cops to keep them from turning into what Venice Beach here in L.A. has.
Nowhere is perfect but if you have the political will and actual desire to keep a city safe and clean, it can be done. Los Angeles is an example of a city whose politicians not only don't have the will and desire to maintain safety and order, they actively desire the opposite. Anarchy, violence, and chaos are their end goal. There's no other explanation for it.
On 8/17/2025 2:00 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 17, 2025 at 10:38:35 AM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 17:25:19 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 16, 2025 at 8:45:40 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote: >>>>
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:<sigh> Looks like suzee has fallen for the old Democrat canard of blaming >>>> Reagan for the vagrant apocalypse we're currently experiencing. It's a >>>> convenient way for Democrats, who control all levels of government in the >>>> state, to duck responsibility for the hellscape they've created.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> >>>>>> wrote:Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid >>>>> 1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn"
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn"
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relativeOnly if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals >>>>>>>>> and start
ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help. >>>>>>>>>
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of
stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere.
Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around >>>>>>>> California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos >>>>>>>> with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is >>>>>>>
use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving
gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of
the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor
did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in >>>>>> Los Angeles.
Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare. >>>>
The fact is that Reagan hasn't been governor of California for 50 years. >>>> Democrats have controlled the state for decades since then. If Reagan was >>>> the
problem, they could have easily reversed his policies at any time over those
five decades. They have chosen not to, so they cannot legitimately duck >>>> responsibility for their own actions by blaming Reagan.
The fact of the matter is that Los Angeles wasn't a violent trash pit when I
moved here in 2011. There weren't vagrant encampments everywhere. There >>>> weren't guys with machetes running down Hollywood Boulevard threatening >>>> tourists. People who violated the law were, for the most part, arrested and
prosecuted. It all started changing around 2015 with the arrival of Eric >>>> Garcetti and the "democrat socialists" on the city council.
Things have changed everywhere. Back in 2011 if I wanted to see a few
(and I mean few) homeless I could head into Atlanta. Downtown they
existed but outside of downtown Atlanta they would be hard to find.
Now I see some every day around my local grocery store, which tended
to vary from week to week.
Now there's a group of younger (probably no older than mid 30s) guys
that tend to gather there every morning. Not sure why but when I
walked down to the grocery store this morning (Publix in the strip
mall) there were a few already there and the rest were slowly
gathering when I left at about 7:30AM. So while we don't seem to have
people running around with machetes we do have plenty of homeless even
in a Republican county in a Republican state.
Two years ago I went on a road trip from L.A. to Key West, FL, with stops >> along the way to visit family in Texas and to hang out in some tourist spots
like Bourbon Street in New Orleans. I remember marveling at Miami and how >> clean and well-kept it seemed to be and the entire time I was there, I saw >> exactly one vagrant-- a guy pushing a shopping cart down an alley. Other
than
that nothing. And the tourist areas like Ocean Boulevard in Miami Beach were
heavily patrolled with cops to keep them from turning into what Venice Beach
here in L.A. has.
Nowhere is perfect but if you have the political will and actual desire to >> keep a city safe and clean, it can be done. Los Angeles is an example of a >> city whose politicians not only don't have the will and desire to maintain >> safety and order, they actively desire the opposite. Anarchy, violence, and >> chaos are their end goal. There's no other explanation for it.
Tourism is the once and future cash cow in Florida. Everyone there
knows it, and everyone knows that everyone knows it. One may ridicule
the tourists, but local opposition to coddling them is rare.
On Aug 17, 2025 at 11:45:57 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 8/17/2025 2:00 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 17, 2025 at 10:38:35 AM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 17:25:19 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 16, 2025 at 8:45:40 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote: >>>>>
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:<sigh> Looks like suzee has fallen for the old Democrat canard of blaming
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn"
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn"
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relativeOnly if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals
ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help. >>>>>>>>>>
and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of
stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere.
Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around >>>>>>>>> California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants
use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving
gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of
the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor
did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before
Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare. >>>>>
Reagan for the vagrant apocalypse we're currently experiencing. It's a >>>>> convenient way for Democrats, who control all levels of government in the
state, to duck responsibility for the hellscape they've created.
The fact is that Reagan hasn't been governor of California for 50 years.
Democrats have controlled the state for decades since then. If Reagan was
the
problem, they could have easily reversed his policies at any time over those
five decades. They have chosen not to, so they cannot legitimately duck >>>>> responsibility for their own actions by blaming Reagan.
The fact of the matter is that Los Angeles wasn't a violent trash pit when I
moved here in 2011. There weren't vagrant encampments everywhere. There >>>>> weren't guys with machetes running down Hollywood Boulevard threatening >>>>> tourists. People who violated the law were, for the most part, arrested and
prosecuted. It all started changing around 2015 with the arrival of Eric
Garcetti and the "democrat socialists" on the city council.
Things have changed everywhere. Back in 2011 if I wanted to see a few >>>> (and I mean few) homeless I could head into Atlanta. Downtown they
existed but outside of downtown Atlanta they would be hard to find.
Now I see some every day around my local grocery store, which tended >>>> to vary from week to week.
Now there's a group of younger (probably no older than mid 30s) guys >>>> that tend to gather there every morning. Not sure why but when I
walked down to the grocery store this morning (Publix in the strip
mall) there were a few already there and the rest were slowly
gathering when I left at about 7:30AM. So while we don't seem to have >>>> people running around with machetes we do have plenty of homeless even >>>> in a Republican county in a Republican state.
Two years ago I went on a road trip from L.A. to Key West, FL, with stops >>> along the way to visit family in Texas and to hang out in some tourist spots
like Bourbon Street in New Orleans. I remember marveling at Miami and how >>> clean and well-kept it seemed to be and the entire time I was there, I saw
exactly one vagrant-- a guy pushing a shopping cart down an alley. Other >>> than
that nothing. And the tourist areas like Ocean Boulevard in Miami Beach were
heavily patrolled with cops to keep them from turning into what Venice Beach
here in L.A. has.
Nowhere is perfect but if you have the political will and actual desire to
keep a city safe and clean, it can be done. Los Angeles is an example of a
city whose politicians not only don't have the will and desire to maintain
safety and order, they actively desire the opposite. Anarchy, violence, and
chaos are their end goal. There's no other explanation for it.
Tourism is the once and future cash cow in Florida. Everyone there
knows it, and everyone knows that everyone knows it. One may ridicule
the tourists, but local opposition to coddling them is rare.
Then why is a major tourist spot like Hollywood Boulevard an open-air mental asylum and drug den?
Why was Venice Beach-- the number one tourist attraction (surprisingly) in L.A. County based on number of visits/year-- allowed to turn into a post-apocalyptic nightmare?
On 8/17/2025 3:04 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 17, 2025 at 11:45:57 AM PDT, "moviePig" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote: >>
On 8/17/2025 2:00 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 17, 2025 at 10:38:35 AM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 17:25:19 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> >>>>> wrote:
On Aug 16, 2025 at 8:45:40 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn"
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn"That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere.
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relativeOnly if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals
ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help. >>>>>>>>>>>
and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of
stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses. >>>>>>>>>>
Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around >>>>>>>>>> California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants
use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving
gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of
the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor
did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before
Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare.
<sigh> Looks like suzee has fallen for the old Democrat canard of blaming
Reagan for the vagrant apocalypse we're currently experiencing. It's a >>>>>> convenient way for Democrats, who control all levels of government in the
state, to duck responsibility for the hellscape they've created. >>>>>>
The fact is that Reagan hasn't been governor of California for 50 years.
Democrats have controlled the state for decades since then. If Reagan was
the
problem, they could have easily reversed his policies at any time over those
five decades. They have chosen not to, so they cannot legitimately duck
responsibility for their own actions by blaming Reagan.
The fact of the matter is that Los Angeles wasn't a violent trash pit when I
moved here in 2011. There weren't vagrant encampments everywhere. There
weren't guys with machetes running down Hollywood Boulevard threatening
tourists. People who violated the law were, for the most part, arrested and
prosecuted. It all started changing around 2015 with the arrival of Eric
Garcetti and the "democrat socialists" on the city council.
Things have changed everywhere. Back in 2011 if I wanted to see a few >>>>> (and I mean few) homeless I could head into Atlanta. Downtown they >>>>> existed but outside of downtown Atlanta they would be hard to find. >>>>> Now I see some every day around my local grocery store, which tended >>>>> to vary from week to week.
Now there's a group of younger (probably no older than mid 30s) guys >>>>> that tend to gather there every morning. Not sure why but when I
walked down to the grocery store this morning (Publix in the strip >>>>> mall) there were a few already there and the rest were slowly
gathering when I left at about 7:30AM. So while we don't seem to have >>>>> people running around with machetes we do have plenty of homeless even >>>>> in a Republican county in a Republican state.
Two years ago I went on a road trip from L.A. to Key West, FL, with stops
along the way to visit family in Texas and to hang out in some tourist spots
like Bourbon Street in New Orleans. I remember marveling at Miami and how
clean and well-kept it seemed to be and the entire time I was there, I saw
exactly one vagrant-- a guy pushing a shopping cart down an alley. Other >>>> than
that nothing. And the tourist areas like Ocean Boulevard in Miami Beach were
heavily patrolled with cops to keep them from turning into what Venice Beach
here in L.A. has.
Nowhere is perfect but if you have the political will and actual desire to
keep a city safe and clean, it can be done. Los Angeles is an example of a
city whose politicians not only don't have the will and desire to maintain
safety and order, they actively desire the opposite. Anarchy, violence, and
chaos are their end goal. There's no other explanation for it.
Tourism is the once and future cash cow in Florida. Everyone there
knows it, and everyone knows that everyone knows it. One may ridicule
the tourists, but local opposition to coddling them is rare.
Then why is a major tourist spot like Hollywood Boulevard an open-air mental >> asylum and drug den?
Why was Venice Beach-- the number one tourist attraction (surprisingly) in >> L.A. County based on number of visits/year-- allowed to turn into a
post-apocalyptic nightmare?
I don't know the local and surrounding temperament of those places. I'm
just reporting my years-long observation of Florida's statewide
pervasive awareness of and deference to a flourishing tourism. When it
comes to public policy, "snowbirds" are golden geese.
On Aug 16, 2025 at 8:45:40 PM PDT, "suzeeq" <suzeeq@imbris.com> wrote:
On 8/16/2025 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:37:53 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>Is there a date stamp on the videos? I rode BART regularly in the mid
wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 3:51:27 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:49:14 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> >>>>> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2025 at 12:01:48 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative >>>>>>> ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in
the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and start
prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some kind of
stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere. >>>>> Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who >>>>> lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos >>>>> with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants
use
it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where roving >>>> gangs
take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some scene out of the Old
West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor >>> did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
1970s and there was no crime happening. Of course that was years before
Reagan closed mental institutions and living on the street was rare.
<sigh> Looks like suzee has fallen for the old Democrat canard of blaming Reagan for the vagrant apocalypse we're currently experiencing. It's a convenient way for Democrats, who control all levels of government in the state, to duck responsibility for the hellscape they've created.
The fact is that Reagan hasn't been governor of California for 50 years.
Democrats have controlled the state for decades since then. If Reagan was the problem, they could have easily reversed his policies at any time over those five decades. They have chosen not to, so they cannot legitimately duck responsibility for their own actions by blaming Reagan.
The fact of the matter is that Los Angeles wasn't a violent trash pit when I moved here in 2011. There weren't vagrant encampments everywhere. There weren't guys with machetes running down Hollywood Boulevard threatening tourists. People who violated the law were, for the most part, arrested and prosecuted. It all started changing around 2015 with the arrival of Eric Garcetti and the "democrat socialists" on the city council.
Reagan has had jack-all to do with it.
Things have changed everywhere. Back in 2011 if I wanted to see a few
(and I mean few) homeless I could head into Atlanta. Downtown they
existed but outside of downtown Atlanta they would be hard to find.
Now I see some every day around my local grocery store, which tended
to vary from week to week.
Now there's a group of younger (probably no older than mid 30s) guys
that tend to gather there every morning. Not sure why but when I
walked down to the grocery store this morning (Publix in the strip
mall) there were a few already there and the rest were slowly
gathering when I left at about 7:30AM. So while we don't seem to have
people running around with machetes we do have plenty of homeless even
in a Republican county in a Republican state.
Reagan has a lot to be responsible for, beginning with his 'trickle
down' economics, which 40 years later still doesn't work.
On 8/16/25 3:12 PM, shawn wrote:
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
"shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
"shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
I get why they want congestion pricing but other than the relative >>>>>> ease of implementation is it the best solution. Clearly an increase in >>>>>> the use and spread of public transportation could help.
Only if they decide to let go of their bizarre love for criminals and >>>>> start prosecuting people for crime. Barely a week goes by without some >>>>> kind of stabbing or shooting on the city's trains and buses.
That's a personal problem. LOL. Seriously it's not the same elsewhere. >>>> Even in California. I watched some videos from a guy named Adam who
lives up in Oakland and did a number of videos traveling around
California by public transit. He made a point in one of his videos
with his standard comments about how good the Bay Area Transit is
LOL! BART has been a shit-show for years. Just like in L.A., the vagrants >>> use it as a day shelter and crime is rampant. Just one example, where
roving gangs take over entire trains and rob the occupants like some
scene out of the Old West:
Hmm, he did multiple videos using BART and never had any problems, nor
did he run into others taking over the trains the way it happens in
Los Angeles.
You mean someone rode public transit and Lived To Tell About It?
That must mean that complaints about crime on BART are
all lies, concocted by conservatives as part of their
"punching down" propaganda.
The easiest would be to submit odometer readings each year and pay
something based on the total distance, but of course the statists
want to install tracking devices to do it (and just happen to track
your movement).
Every now and then when I have the Google Maps plot me a route somewhere, out >of curiosity, I switch over from the default car route and tap the little bus >icon to see what would be involved in taking public transportation to the same >place. It's almost always three to four times longer of a trip than driving >there. And often it's much more than that.
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