On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:11:59 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 2:38:29 +0000, WillnDockery wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 14:22:48 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
Of course, I wrote a very similar opening line back in 1976 that has >>>>> been visible online for at least a decade, and I hadn't seen the Robert >>>>> Creeley poem either, "The seconds have piled up at the floor..."
https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=256444&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#256444
***
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
lost here in some other guy's past
lying there
with your seconds piled
there went by a life
untold
unasked
going by
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
If some morning I wake
here for you
trying to find some reason to return
if I see things denied
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
slipped through my fingers
everything here now is real
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
now that I'm falling
into my morning
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
When does this dream end?
When do I get on up the road?
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
-Will Dockery / August 20 1976
***
(Published March 1977 in the Carverlite, the Carver High School
newspaper, Columbus Georgia)
From:
https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2023/09/shattered.html?m=1
***
I didn't accuse you of borrowing my line, but they are very similar
opening lines.
No, they really aren't. "Time piles up" is a common expression
-- as are more specific variations like "seconds pile up," "minutes pile >>>> up," "hours pile up," "days pile up," "weeks pile up," "months pile up," >>>> etc.
Not to mention the fact that "at the floor" is just bad English. The
seconds would pile up *on* the floor, not *at* it.
--
After some thought and discussion with my editor, I agree.
Although it doesn't matter at this point, the change in my poem was
actually made by /another/ editor nearly fifty years ago, for the first
publication in my high school newspaper:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
In my original typed manuscript I had written:
"The seconds have piled up on the floor, lost here in some other guy's
past."
But somewhere during the fancy typesetting, artwork and whatnot, my
friend and editor Michael Ehrhart changed "on" to "at" and his overall
job was so dazzling that we just ran with it back in 1976:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
What's "dazzling" about it? It's chock full of errors.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Can you point out the errors?
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Your friend should have first run it past his English teacher... oh,
right... your English teacher was Danny Barfield.
Your childish name calling is noted and corrected, Pendragon.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:43:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
Anther day, another change of topic, another new thread;
from https://www.novabbs.com/arts/post.php
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:36:06 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:11:59 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 2:38:29 +0000, WillnDockery wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 14:22:48 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
Of course, I wrote a very similar opening line back in 1976 that has >>>>>>> been visible online for at least a decade, and I hadn't seen the Robert >>>>>>> Creeley poem either, "The seconds have piled up at the floor..." >>>>>>>
https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=256444&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#256444
***
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
lost here in some other guy's past
lying there
with your seconds piled
there went by a life
untold
unasked
going by
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
If some morning I wake
here for you
trying to find some reason to return
if I see things denied
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
slipped through my fingers
everything here now is real
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
now that I'm falling
into my morning
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
When does this dream end?
When do I get on up the road?
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
-Will Dockery / August 20 1976
***
(Published March 1977 in the Carverlite, the Carver High School >>>>>>>> newspaper, Columbus Georgia)
From:
https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2023/09/shattered.html?m=1 >>>>>>>
***
I didn't accuse you of borrowing my line, but they are very similar >>>>>>> opening lines.
No, they really aren't. "Time piles up" is a common expression
-- as are more specific variations like "seconds pile up," "minutes pile >>>>>> up," "hours pile up," "days pile up," "weeks pile up," "months pile up," >>>>>> etc.
Not to mention the fact that "at the floor" is just bad English. The >>>>>> seconds would pile up *on* the floor, not *at* it.
--
After some thought and discussion with my editor, I agree.
Although it doesn't matter at this point, the change in my poem was
actually made by /another/ editor nearly fifty years ago, for the first >>>>> publication in my high school newspaper:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
In my original typed manuscript I had written:
"The seconds have piled up on the floor, lost here in some other guy's >>>>> past."
But somewhere during the fancy typesetting, artwork and whatnot, my
friend and editor Michael Ehrhart changed "on" to "at" and his overall >>>>> job was so dazzling that we just ran with it back in 1976:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
What's "dazzling" about it? It's chock full of errors.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Can you point out the errors?
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Your friend should have first run it past his English teacher... oh,
right... your English teacher was Danny Barfield.
Since the poem was edited for a high school "literary journal" it would
have been run past the English teacher supervising it; which I don't
think was Dan Barfield.
Since Will's asked me to do a re-edit, I would also like to MMP's spell
out of all those alleged "errors" - it would be very helpful.
Your childish name calling is noted and corrected, Pendragon.
True, the advisor for the Carver High School student publications was
English teacher Ms. Leta McNair.
Here's a scan of "Shattered" from 1977'
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15kF31izkq/
Anther day, another change of topic, another new thread;
from https://www.novabbs.com/arts/post.php
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:36:06 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:11:59 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 2:38:29 +0000, WillnDockery wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 14:22:48 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
Of course, I wrote a very similar opening line back in 1976 that has >>>>>> been visible online for at least a decade, and I hadn't seen the Robert >>>>>> Creeley poem either, "The seconds have piled up at the floor..."
https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=256444&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#256444
***
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
lost here in some other guy's past
lying there
with your seconds piled
there went by a life
untold
unasked
going by
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
If some morning I wake
here for you
trying to find some reason to return
if I see things denied
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
slipped through my fingers
everything here now is real
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
now that I'm falling
into my morning
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
When does this dream end?
When do I get on up the road?
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
-Will Dockery / August 20 1976
***
(Published March 1977 in the Carverlite, the Carver High School
newspaper, Columbus Georgia)
From:
https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2023/09/shattered.html?m=1 >>>>>>
***
I didn't accuse you of borrowing my line, but they are very similar >>>>>> opening lines.
No, they really aren't. "Time piles up" is a common expression
-- as are more specific variations like "seconds pile up," "minutes pile >>>>> up," "hours pile up," "days pile up," "weeks pile up," "months pile up," >>>>> etc.
Not to mention the fact that "at the floor" is just bad English. The >>>>> seconds would pile up *on* the floor, not *at* it.
--
After some thought and discussion with my editor, I agree.
Although it doesn't matter at this point, the change in my poem was
actually made by /another/ editor nearly fifty years ago, for the first >>>> publication in my high school newspaper:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
In my original typed manuscript I had written:
"The seconds have piled up on the floor, lost here in some other guy's >>>> past."
But somewhere during the fancy typesetting, artwork and whatnot, my
friend and editor Michael Ehrhart changed "on" to "at" and his overall >>>> job was so dazzling that we just ran with it back in 1976:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
What's "dazzling" about it? It's chock full of errors.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Can you point out the errors?
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Your friend should have first run it past his English teacher... oh,
right... your English teacher was Danny Barfield.
Since the poem was edited for a high school "literary journal" it would
have been run past the English teacher supervising it; which I don't
think was Dan Barfield.
Since Will's asked me to do a re-edit, I would also like to MMP's spell
out of all those alleged "errors" - it would be very helpful.
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
lost here in some other guy's past
lying there
with your seconds piled
there went by a life
untold
unasked
going by
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
If some morning I wake
here for you
trying to find some reason to return
if I see things denied
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
slipped through my fingers
everything here now is real
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
now that I'm falling
into my morning
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
When does this dream end?
When do I get on up the road?
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 22:34:22 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:36:06 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:11:59 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 2:38:29 +0000, WillnDockery wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 14:22:48 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 13:13:25 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 12:01:28 +0000, NancyGene wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 6:33:52 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 4:56:27 +0000, Will Dockery wrote:We have had the link (and access to the book) since we started looking >>>>>>>> for the phantom poem. The poem is not in that book (or any other book).
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 3:04:47 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 2:31:12 +0000, NancyGene wrote:
"The Collected Poems of Robert Creeley 1945 - 1975"
https://www.imghippo.com/i/gJIH8498pOk.jpg - Title page >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imghippo.com/i/QhcG5616is.jpg - Index of Titles and First
Lines, pp. 664-665
There is no poem listed called "The Days Pile Up," and there is no first
line of "The days pile up like unread newspapers,"
Your move, George Dance. The other book of Mr. Creeley's poems is at:
https://dokumen.pub/the-collected-poems-of-robert-creeley-19752005-9780520941670.html
No "The Days Pile Up" in there either. You are either a liar or know not
what you do.
Well, thank you for finding the volume that HarryLiar lied about giving
a link to. If it's in any /Collected Poems/ volume, that would be the
one. There's no sense in my downloading the file at this point. >>>>>>>>
anyone else might read these messages. Were they trying to protect you
I was given the information on the poem by a trusted source; >>>>>>>> Was the trusted source your wife or your daughter? We don't think that
against us? If so, they did considerable harm.
We posted pictures of the title page and the index. Do you think that >>>>>>>> the physical book will show anything different?but given
this claim of yours that it doesn't appear in [/Collected Poems of >>>>>>>>>>> Robert
Creeley 1945 - 1975/], and Creeley's claim (quoted on Amazon) that that
[book contains everything he published up till 1975,] I think I'll have
to wait till the
copy I ordered on Amazon is in my hands and I can see for myself if it's
actually in that book or not. I don't see any reason to make a move >>>>>>>>>>> until then, so you'll just l have to wait.
Since it will take me longer to receive the book than it would take you,
I've asked Will to not give the group any information on it. I've read
??? Mr. Dockery has no information on it. We already have the book. >>>>>>>>
HarryLiar's made-up stories about why Will won't tell you the name of
the book, so I think it's best for me to tell you that much at least.
Mr. Dance, why don't you drop the silly name-calling? If anyone in this
thread is a liar, it is not Michael or us.
Well put, George.
Thanks for the kind words, Will, but on rereading I see the second >>>>>>>>> paragraph wasn't well-put at all, and needs a serious rewrite. Let me >>>>>>>>> add it in here so that (I hope) I'll just be able to paste it in if >>>>>>>>> NastyGoon can't understand what I'm saying.
We perfectly understand what you are saying. You are trying to cover >>>>>>>> your ass.
It's up to you, but we will expect a full apology from you and Mr. >>>>>>>> Dockery for calling us a "plagiarist" and "second hander." We write our
I was given the information on the poem by a trusted source; but given
this claim of yours that it doesn't appear in /Collected Poems, >>>>>>>>> 1945-1975/ plus Creeley's claim (quoted on Amazon) that that book >>>>>>>>> contains everything he published up until 1975, I think I'll have to >>>>>>>>> wait till the copy I ordered on Amazon is in my hands and I can see for
myself if it's actually in the book I ordered or not. I don't see a >>>>>>>>> reason to make any "move" till then, so you'll just have to wait. >>>>>>>>
own poetry and have no need to plagiarize anyone else's.
--
Of course, I wrote a very similar opening line back in 1976 that has >>>>>>> been visible online for at least a decade, and I hadn't seen the Robert >>>>>>> Creeley poem either, "The seconds have piled up at the floor..." >>>>>>>
https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=256444&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#256444
***
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
lost here in some other guy's past
lying there
with your seconds piled
there went by a life
untold
unasked
going by
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
If some morning I wake
here for you
trying to find some reason to return
if I see things denied
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
slipped through my fingers
everything here now is real
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
now that I'm falling
into my morning
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
When does this dream end?
When do I get on up the road?
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
-Will Dockery / August 20 1976
***
(Published March 1977 in the Carverlite, the Carver High School >>>>>>>> newspaper, Columbus Georgia)
From:
https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2023/09/shattered.html?m=1 >>>>>>>
***
I didn't accuse you of borrowing my line, but they are very similar >>>>>>> opening lines.
No, they really aren't. "Time piles up" is a common expression
-- as are more specific variations like "seconds pile up," "minutes pile >>>>>> up," "hours pile up," "days pile up," "weeks pile up," "months pile up," >>>>>> etc.
Not to mention the fact that "at the floor" is just bad English. The >>>>>> seconds would pile up *on* the floor, not *at* it.
We have never heard of seconds being on or at or under a floor.
--
After some thought and discussion with my editor, I agree.
Although it doesn't matter at this point, the change in my poem was
actually made by /another/ editor nearly fifty years ago, for the first >>>>> publication in my high school newspaper:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
In my original typed manuscript I had written:
"The seconds have piled up on the floor, lost here in some other guy's >>>>> past."
But somewhere during the fancy typesetting, artwork and whatnot, my
friend and editor Michael Ehrhart changed "on" to "at" and his overall >>>>> job was so dazzling that we just ran with it back in 1976:
Ha, ha, fancy typesetting and artwork! Typed and mimeographed.
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
What's "dazzling" about it? It's chock full of errors.
And the problem is Will Dockery never recognized the errors, over a
period of 50 years. He is just as clueless in using the English
language now as he was in 1976. Some people never learn. Some people
are unteachable. Some people are both.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Can you point out the errors?
For starters, he hyphenated "never" as "ne-ver." Hyphenation is
something that the rest of us had mastered by the 5th grade.
Wasn't Dockery in the 5th grade for several years?
As to pointing out your errors, see below.
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
*ON* the floor. Not "at" it.
lost here in some other guy's past
"here" is superfluous. "lost in some other guy's past"
lying there
LOL! Is your speaker "here" or "there"? He can't be in both
simultaneously.
It's a Beatles song reference! "Here, There and Everywhere."
with your seconds piled
Whose seconds, Donkey? In the opening line they were "the seconds"
connoting universal measurements of time. Now the seconds belong to
someone else
Maybe he was dueling or boxing?
Good call!
there went by a life
You should be imprisoned for torturing language like that.
"a life passed by" is the correct way of expressing this. However, the
tense would be incorrect. "Lying there" is present tense, meaning that
your speaker is in the present moment. If he's thinking about someone
else's life that touched his in the past, he needs to specify this
before switching tenses.
"remembering a life that passed by"
untold
unasked
going by
You've already said that it "went by." "Going by" is just a needless
repetition.
It also changes the tense back from past "went" to "present". Random
switches between tenses are an earmark of a Will Donkey poem. You need
to learn how to use tenses correctly.
He didn't learn then and can't learn now (then, there, here).
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
What are you trying to say here? That this unidentified person's life
was never caused? One should think their parents had been the source.
And how is a life traced? Generally this would mean
recalled/recollected/remembered, but you wouldn't just use "traced" to
signify that. Your sentence appears to be bemoaning the fact that no
one ever traced their image on a piece of transparent paper.
And what's with the "never ever"? People stop saying "never ever" at
the age of 5 or 6.
That was Mr. Dockery's mental age at 22 in the 11th grade. He was doing
the best he could with what he had.
If some morning I wake
here for you
Again, this is torturous prose. It should be "If I awake some morning."
In your line, the speaker is pondering the consequences of his waking
up a morning.
"Here," again, is superfluous -- where else would you be expected to
wake? "There"?
Maybe "on" or "at?"
trying to find some reason to return
At this point, your speaker is babbling incoherently. One doesn't wake
up in the middle of attempting to find a reason for doing something.
One wakes up from sleeping.
Maybe he was trying to return something at Walmart without a receipt?
And, you have yet to identify who this person being addressed is.
Probably the principal, after Mr. Dockery got kicked out of school.
This is another earmark of a Will Donkey poem -- addressing various
pronouns (you, he, she, it, they) without identifying them to the
reader.
It was all a dream, and he had forgotten their names, although they had
told him twice. "Hole in one"
Not surprising.if I see things denied
It's impossible to tell if this line relates to that preceding or
following it. It doesn't make sense either way.
All of those things.
Is he seeing things he once defined denied? What did he define? For a
person to "define" something would mean that he was the perfect symbol
of that particularly quality or characteristic (Joe was the definition
of courage).
Or is his waking contemplation of the possibility of returning to...
some unidentified thing (a relationship?) being denied by the
unidentified someone's actions?
You need to learn how to convey information to your readers. Language
is about communication. It is the means by which we pass on
*information* to others. When your poetry hints at vague relationships
with unidentified pronouns, it is failing to express anything.
That's a theme in Mr. Dockery's attempts at writing.
Vaguery can be used to a poem's advantage -- but the *entire poem*
should never be incoherent.
At least he is consistent.
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
Where's "there"? If the life "just" passed you by, it would have done
so just a few seconds ago, so "there" should be "here."
That was Sydne's wrong left turn with Stinky G.
But earlier in the poem, you'd said that someone else's life had just
passed by.
Sydne's ghost.
Which life was it? The speaker's life? Or the unidentified "you" he is
addressing?
The ghost of Dan Barfly.
slipped through my fingers
This is just another way of saying "passed me by." If a line doesn't
add anything to the poem, you should cut it.
Perhaps the whole poem should be cut? Not just perhaps.
everything here now is real
WFT?
Was everything not real a moment ago?
More importantly, *what* has become real?
"The Real Housewives of Atlanta?"
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
I'm guessing that you were stoned out of your senses when you wrote
this, and that it all made perfect sense to you at the time?
He did the best drugs he could score on the playgrounds.
Are you telling the unidentified "you" (whose life had passed --
implying that they had died) to wait?
"Wait for Me" - Hall and Oates
Are you telling yourself to wait -- as your train of thought jumps
tracks?
"Then I'm willing to wait for it.
I'm willing to wait for it." - "Hamilton"
Or are you telling the reader, who you haven't been addressing, to wait?
"Wait Mister Postman"
And why use "portion" rather than "part"? It just sounds false (like a
child attempting to use "big words").
Dockery was merely a 22-year-old, just entering the 5th grade. He knew
few words.
And just what part of what finish are you referring to?
He meant Finnish.
Everything has suddenly become real (even though you had given no
previous indication that it was false, and even though you've failed to
even hint at what "real" and "everything" relate to), is meant to be a
false finish that never comes (and is, therefore, not a finish)?
Yes.
That would sound vaguely profound if it actually had any intelligible
meaning.
You have words and music. Do you need meaning too?
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
We have now arrived at the point in a Will Donkey poem, when I'm
inwardly screaming out "SHOOT ME NOW!!!"
That's when his teachers committed mass suicide.
How does the dimming glow of some lights affect your speaker's ego?
Does he feel inconsequential at dusk?
He is rhyming three consecutive lines. It is vaguely reminiscent of
"Leggo my Eggo." The "so low" also refers to George Dance.
u
now that I'm falling
into my morning
So your speaker is still lying "here" (or, perhaps, "there") waking up
from contemplating returning to someone or something, and the lights
have suddenly dimmed? Was there a brown out?
He's also falling up or down. Maybe into?
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
Is the (supposedly deceased) "you" he's been addressing actually lying
on the floor with him (not having "passed by" him at all)?
Robot.
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
"Too"? Too implies that he'd already told us about something else that
the morning light was blasting clean.
Why does his head need to be cleaned? We thought that was what the
Brillo hair was for?
So... basically, the speaker had gotten drunk and/or stoned, passed out
either here or there, woke up contemplating whether he should return to
someone or something, rambled incoherently about how his life (or the
life of someone else) passed him by... until the morning lights dimmed,
blasting his head clean.
Got it. NOT!
And fell down.
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
Donkey, Donkey, Donkey [shakes head], always with the pronouns. The
speaker has been forgetting what?
Forgot to put his pants on?
He put his glasses on?
And how can morning be "clearer" when it had never been described as
being "unclear"?
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
Light streams. Highways don't.
He is rhyming "seem" and "stream." So unexpected!
Who is the speaker addressing? Himself? The morning? The unidentified
person whose "uncaused" and "untraced" life had passed him by?
"All or nothing at all."
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
"Hitchhikers" is not hyphenated.
Why would morning lights be dimming again? Usually the ambient light
increases as the sun continues its ascent.
The laws of physics work differently in Shadowville.
And why are the hitchhikers streaking? I realize this was written in
the 70s when streaking as still a thing, but I don't believe that the
two (hitchhiking and streaking) went together.
"Sweet Hitchhiker
We could make music at the Greasy King
Sweet Hitchhiker,
Won't you ride on my fast machine?" - Creedence Clearwater Revival
And even if there were dim streaks of light in your "here" (or,
possibly, "there"), how does dim light recall a hitchhiker (naked or
dressed)?
"A thumb goes up, a car goes by
It's nearly one A.M. And here am I
Hitchin' a ride, hitchin' a ride" - Vanity Fare
It ends when it ends, and not a pile of seconds before.
When does this dream end?
WHEN DOES THIS GODAWFUL POEM END???
I'm not joking, Donkey. A poem needs to grab, and hold, the reader's
interest. Since I have no idea what your poem is about (other than your
waking up still feeling the effects of the previous night's drugs), I
have *ZERO* interest in it.
It should have been thrown "at" the floor in English class. Big f'n F
grade.
I don't know who is speaking. I don't know who he's speaking to. I
don't know what he's prattling on about. Hell, I don't even know if
he's here or there.
"But who knows where or when?"
And, as a consequence, I cannot invest any interest (much less feelings)
into his (non-) story.
The writing is beyond bad and not something anyone should be proud to
show others.
When do I get on up the road?
"Get on up the road"? That's not even decent backwoods slang. When
speaking about reaching a destination (literal, spiritual, etc.), one
says "down" the road. "Up" the road implies back to the start of your
journey.
Unless one is lying by the side of the road, and the asphalt is quite
thick. Didn't the speaker fall down in previous stanzas?
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
"firefly" is not hyphenated.
So the dimming, streaking, hitchhiking light is now a hastily departing
firefly?
Fireflies are very slow fliers.
Pick ONE metaphor and stick with it.
That's like asking Mr. Dockery to stick with one pronoun.
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
OMFG!
Now the dimming, streaking, hitchhiking, hastily departing firefly like
light has turned into unseen gravestones???
And they are up on the road!
I can't wait to discover what the morph into next.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
There it is!
They went from dimming, to streaking, to hitchhiking, to hastily
departing fireflies, to unseen gravestone, to marbles spilling from
shattered minds.
How many people can relate to marbles spilling out of minds? Lost their marbles? That's a literal interpretation that is typical of immature, cliched thinking.
And this is the end of the poem?
What was the topic? The speaker lying in the "Here" or "There"? The
unknown person he was addressing? Someone's life having passed -- or
passed by? Contemplating returning to... something? Or the bizarre
transformation of the morning light?
I would like to say that this is bad, even for you, but it's really just
par for the course as Donkey poems go: incoherent, incompetently
written, and terminally uninteresting.
Did you note the title of the poem, as shown in the Carverlite Crappage?
"SHATT, RD" - The title describes the writing perfectly!
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:43:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
Anther day, another change of topic, another new thread;
from https://www.novabbs.com/arts/post.php
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:36:06 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:11:59 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 2:38:29 +0000, WillnDockery wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 14:22:48 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
Of course, I wrote a very similar opening line back in 1976 that has >>>>>>> been visible online for at least a decade, and I hadn't seen the Robert >>>>>>> Creeley poem either, "The seconds have piled up at the floor..." >>>>>>>
https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=256444&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#256444
***
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
lost here in some other guy's past
lying there
with your seconds piled
there went by a life
untold
unasked
going by
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
If some morning I wake
here for you
trying to find some reason to return
if I see things denied
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
slipped through my fingers
everything here now is real
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
now that I'm falling
into my morning
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
When does this dream end?
When do I get on up the road?
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
-Will Dockery / August 20 1976
***
(Published March 1977 in the Carverlite, the Carver High School >>>>>>>> newspaper, Columbus Georgia)
From:
https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2023/09/shattered.html?m=1 >>>>>>>
***
I didn't accuse you of borrowing my line, but they are very similar >>>>>>> opening lines.
No, they really aren't. "Time piles up" is a common expression
-- as are more specific variations like "seconds pile up," "minutes pile >>>>>> up," "hours pile up," "days pile up," "weeks pile up," "months pile up," >>>>>> etc.
Not to mention the fact that "at the floor" is just bad English. The >>>>>> seconds would pile up *on* the floor, not *at* it.
--
After some thought and discussion with my editor, I agree.
Although it doesn't matter at this point, the change in my poem was
actually made by /another/ editor nearly fifty years ago, for the first >>>>> publication in my high school newspaper:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
In my original typed manuscript I had written:
"The seconds have piled up on the floor, lost here in some other guy's >>>>> past."
But somewhere during the fancy typesetting, artwork and whatnot, my
friend and editor Michael Ehrhart changed "on" to "at" and his overall >>>>> job was so dazzling that we just ran with it back in 1976:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
What's "dazzling" about it? It's chock full of errors.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Can you point out the errors?
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Your friend should have first run it past his English teacher... oh,
right... your English teacher was Danny Barfield.
Since the poem was edited for a high school "literary journal" it would
have been run past the English teacher supervising it; which I don't
think was Dan Barfield.
Since Will's asked me to do a re-edit, I would also like to MMP's spell
out of all those alleged "errors" - it would be very helpful.
I have already posted these in another thread (at your Donkey's
request). For your convenience, I am reposting my comments below:
For starters, he hyphenated "never" as "ne-ver." Hyphenation is
something that the rest of us had mastered by the 5th grade.
As to pointing out your errors, see below.
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
*ON* the floor. Not "at" it.
lost here in some other guy's past
"here" is superfluous. "lost in some other guy's past"
lying there
LOL! Is your speaker "here" or "there"? He can't be in both
simultaneously.
with your seconds piled
Whose seconds, Donkey? In the opening line they were "the seconds"
connoting universal measurements of time. Now the seconds belong to
someone els
there went by a life
You should be imprisoned for torturing language like that.
"a life passed by" is the correct way of expressing this. However, the
tense would be incorrect. "Lying there" is present tense, meaning that
your speaker is in the present moment.
If he's thinking about someone
else's life that touched his in the past, he needs to specify this
before switching tenses.
"remembering a life that passed by"
untold
unasked
going by
You've already said that it "went by." "Going by" is just a needless repetition.
It also changes the tense back from past "went" to "present". Random switches between tenses are an earmark of a Will Donkey poem. You need
to learn how to use tenses correctly.
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
What are you trying to say here? That this unidentified person's life
was never caused? One should think their parents had been the source.
And how is a life traced? Generally this would mean recalled/recollected/remembered, but you wouldn't just use "traced" to signify that. Your sentence appears to be bemoaning the fact that no
one ever traced their image on a piece of transparent paper.
And what's with the "never ever"? People stop saying "never ever" at
the age of 5 or 6.
If some morning I wake
here for you
Again, this is torturous prose. It should be "If I awake some morning."
In your line, the speaker is pondering the consequences of his waking
up a morning.
"Here," again, is superfluous -- where else would you be expected to
wake? "There"?
trying to find some reason to return
At this point, your speaker is babbling incoherently. One doesn't wake
up in the middle of attempting to find a reason for doing something.
One wakes up from sleeping.
And, you have yet to identify who this person being addressed is.
This is another earmark of a Will Donkey poem -- addressing various
pronouns (you, he, she, it, they) without identifying them to the
reader.
if I see things denied
It's impossible to tell if this line relates to that preceding or
following it. It doesn't make sense either way.
Is he seeing things he once defined denied? What did he define? For a person to "define" something would mean that he was the perfect symbol
of that particularly quality or characteristic (Joe was the definition
of courage).
Or is his waking contemplation of the possibility of returning to...
some unidentified thing (a relationship?) being denied by the
unidentified someone's actions?
You need to learn how to convey information to your readers. Language
is about communication. It is the means by which we pass on
*information* to others. When your poetry hints at vague relationships
with unidentified pronouns, it is failing to express anything.
Vaguery can be used to a poem's advantage -- but the *entire poem*
should never be incoherent.
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
Where's "there"? If the life "just" passed you by, it would have done
so just a few seconds ago, so "there" should be "here."
But earlier in the poem, you'd said that someone else's life had just
passed by.
Which life was it? The speaker's life? Or the unidentified "you" he is addressing?
slipped through my fingers
This is just another way of saying "passed me by." If a line doesn't
add anything to the poem, you should cut it.
everything here now is real
WFT?
Was everything not real a moment ago?
More importantly, *what* has become real?
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
I'm guessing that you were stoned out of your senses when you wrote
this, and that it all made perfect sense to you at the time?
Are you telling the unidentified "you" (whose life had passed --
implying that they had died) to wait?
Are you telling yourself to wait -- as your train of thought jumps
tracks?
Or are you telling the reader, who you haven't been addressing, to wait?
And why use "portion" rather than "part"? It just sounds false (like a
child attempting to use "big words").
And just what part of what finish are you referring to?
Everything has suddenly become real (even though you had given no
previous indication that it was false, and even though you've failed to
even hint at what "real" and "everything" relate to), is meant to be a
false finish that never comes (and is, therefore, not a finish)?
That would sound vaguely profound if it actually had any intelligible meaning.
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
We have now arrived at the point in a Will Donkey poem, when I'm
inwardly screaming out "SHOOT ME NOW!!!"
How does the dimming glow of some lights affect your speaker's ego?
Does he feel inconsequential at dusk?
u
now that I'm falling
into my morning
So your speaker is still lying "here" (or, perhaps, "there") waking up
from contemplating returning to someone or something, and the lights
have suddenly dimmed? Was there a brown out?
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
Is the (supposedly deceased) "you" he's been addressing actually lying
on the floor with him (not having "passed by" him at all)?
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
"Too"? Too implies that he'd already told us about something else that
the morning light was blasting clean.
So... basically, the speaker had gotten drunk and/or stoned, passed out either here or there, woke up contemplating whether he should return to someone or something, rambled incoherently about how his life (or the
life of someone else) passed him by... until the morning lights dimmed, blasting his head clean.
Got it. NOT!
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
Donkey, Donkey, Donkey [shakes head], always with the pronouns. The
speaker has been forgetting what?
And how can morning be "clearer" when it had never been described as
being "unclear"?
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
Light streams. Highways don't.
Who is the speaker addressing? Himself? The morning? The unidentified person whose "uncaused" and "untraced" life had passed him by?
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
"Hitchhikers" is not hyphenated.
Why would morning lights be dimming again? Usually the ambient light increases as the sun continues its ascent.
And why are the hitchhikers streaking? I realize this was written in
the 70s when streaking as still a thing, but I don't believe that the
two (hitchhiking and streaking) went together.
And even if there were dim streaks of light in your "here" (or,
possibly, "there"), how does dim light recall a hitchhiker (naked or dressed)?
When does this dream end?
WHEN DOES THIS GODAWFUL POEM END???
I'm not joking, Donkey. A poem needs to grab, and hold, the reader's interest. Since I have no idea what you poem is about (other than your
waking up still feeling the effects of the previous night's drugs), I
have *ZERO* interest in it.
I don't know who is speaking. I don't know who he's speaking to. I
don't know what he's prattling on about. Hell, I don't even know if
he's here or there.
And, as a consequence, I cannot invest any interest (much less feelings)
into his (non-) story.
When do I get on up the road?
"Get on up the road"? That's not even decent backwoods slang. When
speaking about reaching a destination (literal, spiritual, etc.), one
says "down" the road. "Up" the road implies back to the start of your journey.
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
"firefly" is not hyphenated.
So the dimming, streaking, hitchhiking light is now a hastily departing firefly?
Pick ONE metaphor and stick with it.
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
OMFG!
Now the dimming, streaking, hitchhiking, hastily departing firefly like
light has turned into unseen gravestones???
I can't wait to discover what the morph into next.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
There it is!
They went from dimming, to streaking, to hitchhiking, to hastily
departing fireflies, to unseen gravestone, to marbles spilling from
shattered minds.
And this is the end of the poem?
What was the topic? The speaker lying in the "Here" or "There"? The
unknown person he was addressing? Someone's life having passed -- or
passed by? Contemplating returning to... something? Or the bizarre transformation of the morning light?
I would like to say that this is bad, even for you, but it's really just
par for the course as Donkey poems go: incoherent, incompetently
written, and terminally uninteresting.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 0:53:43 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:43:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
Anther day, another change of topic, another new thread;
from https://www.novabbs.com/arts/post.php
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:36:06 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 7:11:59 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 2:38:29 +0000, WillnDockery wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2025 14:22:48 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
Of course, I wrote a very similar opening line back in 1976 that has >>>>>>>> been visible online for at least a decade, and I hadn't seen the Robert
Creeley poem either, "The seconds have piled up at the floor..." >>>>>>>>
https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=256444&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#256444
***
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
lost here in some other guy's past
lying there
with your seconds piled
there went by a life
untold
unasked
going by
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
If some morning I wake
here for you
trying to find some reason to return
if I see things denied
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
slipped through my fingers
everything here now is real
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
now that I'm falling
into my morning
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
When does this dream end?
When do I get on up the road?
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
-Will Dockery / August 20 1976
***
(Published March 1977 in the Carverlite, the Carver High School >>>>>>>>> newspaper, Columbus Georgia)
From:
https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2023/09/shattered.html?m=1 >>>>>>>>
***
I didn't accuse you of borrowing my line, but they are very similar >>>>>>>> opening lines.
No, they really aren't. "Time piles up" is a common expression
-- as are more specific variations like "seconds pile up," "minutes pile
up," "hours pile up," "days pile up," "weeks pile up," "months pile up,"
etc.
Not to mention the fact that "at the floor" is just bad English. The >>>>>>> seconds would pile up *on* the floor, not *at* it.
--
After some thought and discussion with my editor, I agree.
Although it doesn't matter at this point, the change in my poem was >>>>>> actually made by /another/ editor nearly fifty years ago, for the first >>>>>> publication in my high school newspaper:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
In my original typed manuscript I had written:
"The seconds have piled up on the floor, lost here in some other guy's >>>>>> past."
But somewhere during the fancy typesetting, artwork and whatnot, my >>>>>> friend and editor Michael Ehrhart changed "on" to "at" and his overall >>>>>> job was so dazzling that we just ran with it back in 1976:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15ndUbyxDi/
What's "dazzling" about it? It's chock full of errors.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Can you point out the errors?
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Your friend should have first run it past his English teacher... oh, >>>>> right... your English teacher was Danny Barfield.
Since the poem was edited for a high school "literary journal" it would
have been run past the English teacher supervising it; which I don't
think was Dan Barfield.
Since Will's asked me to do a re-edit, I would also like to MMP's spell
out of all those alleged "errors" - it would be very helpful.
I have already posted these in another thread (at your Donkey's
request). For your convenience, I am reposting my comments below:
It's hardly convenient to have to wade through those comments to see if you've found any other spelling or grammar errors, but at least it's
better than nothing. So to begin ...
[QUOTE]
For starters, he hyphenated "never" as "ne-ver." Hyphenation is
something that the rest of us had mastered by the 5th grade.
That's not a very promising start. The word "never" appears in Will's
poem six times, and none of those times is it hyphenated. Maybe you misunderstood; as Will's editor on this project I'm looking for spelling
or grammar errors in what he's written. "At" rather than "on" was a good call, as it ended up in Will's poem, but "ne-ver" did not.
As to pointing out your errors, see below.
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
*ON* the floor. Not "at" it.
Got that one.
lost here in some other guy's past
"here" is superfluous. "lost in some other guy's past"
lying there
LOL! Is your speaker "here" or "there"? He can't be in both
simultaneously.
with your seconds piled
Whose seconds, Donkey? In the opening line they were "the seconds"
connoting universal measurements of time. Now the seconds belong to
someone els
there went by a life
You should be imprisoned for torturing language like that.
"a life passed by" is the correct way of expressing this. However, the
tense would be incorrect. "Lying there" is present tense, meaning that
your speaker is in the present moment.
No, that's not correct. "I am lying there" would be present tense; "I
was lying there" would be past tense; the participle "lying" is not in a tense.
If he's thinking about someone
else's life that touched his in the past, he needs to specify this
before switching tenses.
"remembering a life that passed by"
untold
unasked
going by
You've already said that it "went by." "Going by" is just a needless
repetition.
It also changes the tense back from past "went" to "present". Random
switches between tenses are an earmark of a Will Donkey poem. You need
to learn how to use tenses correctly.
never caused and never traced
the future never ever appears here.
What are you trying to say here? That this unidentified person's life
was never caused? One should think their parents had been the source.
And how is a life traced? Generally this would mean
recalled/recollected/remembered, but you wouldn't just use "traced" to
signify that. Your sentence appears to be bemoaning the fact that no
one ever traced their image on a piece of transparent paper.
And what's with the "never ever"? People stop saying "never ever" at
the age of 5 or 6.
If some morning I wake
here for you
Again, this is torturous prose. It should be "If I awake some morning."
In your line, the speaker is pondering the consequences of his waking
up a morning.
"Here," again, is superfluous -- where else would you be expected to
wake? "There"?
trying to find some reason to return
At this point, your speaker is babbling incoherently. One doesn't wake
up in the middle of attempting to find a reason for doing something.
One wakes up from sleeping.
And, you have yet to identify who this person being addressed is.
This is another earmark of a Will Donkey poem -- addressing various
pronouns (you, he, she, it, they) without identifying them to the
reader.
if I see things denied
It's impossible to tell if this line relates to that preceding or
following it. It doesn't make sense either way.
Is he seeing things he once defined denied? What did he define? For a
person to "define" something would mean that he was the perfect symbol
of that particularly quality or characteristic (Joe was the definition
of courage).
Or is his waking contemplation of the possibility of returning to...
some unidentified thing (a relationship?) being denied by the
unidentified someone's actions?
You need to learn how to convey information to your readers. Language
is about communication. It is the means by which we pass on
*information* to others. When your poetry hints at vague relationships
with unidentified pronouns, it is failing to express anything.
Vaguery can be used to a poem's advantage -- but the *entire poem*
should never be incoherent.
I once defined
a life just passed me by there
Where's "there"? If the life "just" passed you by, it would have done
so just a few seconds ago, so "there" should be "here."
But earlier in the poem, you'd said that someone else's life had just
passed by.
Which life was it? The speaker's life? Or the unidentified "you" he is
addressing?
slipped through my fingers
This is just another way of saying "passed me by." If a line doesn't
add anything to the poem, you should cut it.
everything here now is real
WFT?
Was everything not real a moment ago?
More importantly, *what* has become real?
so wait.
That portion of the finish
never comes.
I'm guessing that you were stoned out of your senses when you wrote
this, and that it all made perfect sense to you at the time?
Are you telling the unidentified "you" (whose life had passed --
implying that they had died) to wait?
Are you telling yourself to wait -- as your train of thought jumps
tracks?
Or are you telling the reader, who you haven't been addressing, to wait?
And why use "portion" rather than "part"? It just sounds false (like a
child attempting to use "big words").
And just what part of what finish are you referring to?
Everything has suddenly become real (even though you had given no
previous indication that it was false, and even though you've failed to
even hint at what "real" and "everything" relate to), is meant to be a
false finish that never comes (and is, therefore, not a finish)?
That would sound vaguely profound if it actually had any intelligible
meaning.
Now that the lights are going so low
the dimming glow
falls on my ego
We have now arrived at the point in a Will Donkey poem, when I'm
inwardly screaming out "SHOOT ME NOW!!!"
How does the dimming glow of some lights affect your speaker's ego?
Does he feel inconsequential at dusk?
u
now that I'm falling
into my morning
So your speaker is still lying "here" (or, perhaps, "there") waking up
from contemplating returning to someone or something, and the lights
have suddenly dimmed? Was there a brown out?
here I am gazing into those
reflector eyes
Is the (supposedly deceased) "you" he's been addressing actually lying
on the floor with him (not having "passed by" him at all)?
morning light
is blasting my head clean too.
"Too"? Too implies that he'd already told us about something else that
the morning light was blasting clean.
So... basically, the speaker had gotten drunk and/or stoned, passed out
either here or there, woke up contemplating whether he should return to
someone or something, rambled incoherently about how his life (or the
life of someone else) passed him by... until the morning lights dimmed,
blasting his head clean.
Got it. NOT!
Morning's clearer
I've been forgetting it.
Donkey, Donkey, Donkey [shakes head], always with the pronouns. The
speaker has been forgetting what?
And how can morning be "clearer" when it had never been described as
being "unclear"?
Your thoughts seem to stream
like a highway
Light streams. Highways don't.
Who is the speaker addressing? Himself? The morning? The unidentified
person whose "uncaused" and "untraced" life had passed him by?
dimming lights seem to streak
like hitch-hikers.
"Hitchhikers" is not hyphenated.
There's something.
I've seen "hitch-hiker" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitch-Hiker -
and
I've seen "hitch hiker" https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31895692545&gQT=3
but "hitchhiker" is the most common spelling these days. I'll point it
out to Will.
Why would morning lights be dimming again? Usually the ambient light
increases as the sun continues its ascent.
And why are the hitchhikers streaking? I realize this was written in
the 70s when streaking as still a thing, but I don't believe that the
two (hitchhiking and streaking) went together.
And even if there were dim streaks of light in your "here" (or,
possibly, "there"), how does dim light recall a hitchhiker (naked or
dressed)?
When does this dream end?
WHEN DOES THIS GODAWFUL POEM END???
I'm not joking, Donkey. A poem needs to grab, and hold, the reader's
interest. Since I have no idea what you poem is about (other than your
waking up still feeling the effects of the previous night's drugs), I
have *ZERO* interest in it.
I don't know who is speaking. I don't know who he's speaking to. I
don't know what he's prattling on about. Hell, I don't even know if
he's here or there.
And, as a consequence, I cannot invest any interest (much less feelings)
into his (non-) story.
When do I get on up the road?
"Get on up the road"? That's not even decent backwoods slang. When
speaking about reaching a destination (literal, spiritual, etc.), one
says "down" the road. "Up" the road implies back to the start of your
journey.
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
"firefly" is not hyphenated.
I'd agree with that 100%. Good catch.
So the dimming, streaking, hitchhiking light is now a hastily departing
firefly?
Pick ONE metaphor and stick with it.
like gravestones
never noticed
never seen.
OMFG!
Now the dimming, streaking, hitchhiking, hastily departing firefly like
light has turned into unseen gravestones???
I can't wait to discover what the morph into next.
Like marbles
spilling from shattered minds.
There it is!
They went from dimming, to streaking, to hitchhiking, to hastily
departing fireflies, to unseen gravestone, to marbles spilling from
shattered minds.
And this is the end of the poem?
What was the topic? The speaker lying in the "Here" or "There"? The
unknown person he was addressing? Someone's life having passed -- or
passed by? Contemplating returning to... something? Or the bizarre
transformation of the morning light?
I would like to say that this is bad, even for you, but it's really just
par for the course as Donkey poems go: incoherent, incompetently
written, and terminally uninteresting.
Thanks for your help.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 11:55:07 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 0:53:43 +0000, Michael Monkey MMP aka "HarryLime"
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:43:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
I have already posted these in another thread (at your Donkey's
request). For your convenience, I am reposting my comments below:
It's hardly convenient to have to wade through those comments to see if
you've found any other spelling or grammar errors, but at least it's
better than nothing. So to begin ...
You're welcome, George.
Spelling errors aren't the only thing an editor is supposed to fix.
[QUOTE]
For starters, he hyphenated "never" as "ne-ver." Hyphenation is
something that the rest of us had mastered by the 5th grade.
That's not a very promising start. The word "never" appears in Will's
poem six times, and none of those times is it hyphenated. Maybe you
misunderstood; as Will's editor on this project I'm looking for spelling
or grammar errors in what he's written. "At" rather than "on" was a good
call, as it ended up in Will's poem, but "ne-ver" did not.
Will had asked two questions: 1) what errors did his "dazzling" high
school editor make ("ne-ver" was one of them, and 2) if I would point
out any corrections from him current, "corrected" copy. What follows pertains to Will's corrected copy.
As to pointing out your errors, see below.
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
*ON* the floor. Not "at" it.
Got that one.
"a life passed by" is the correct way of expressing this. However, the
tense would be incorrect. "Lying there" is present tense, meaning that
your speaker is in the present moment.
No, that's not correct. "I am lying there" would be present tense; "I
was lying there" would be past tense; the participle "lying" is not in a
tense.
Contextually, he is lying on the floor throughout the entire poem (if
I'm reading his gibberish correctly); in which case, he should be using present tense throughout.
"Hitchhikers" is not hyphenated.
There's something.
I've seen "hitch-hiker" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitch-Hiker -
and
I've seen "hitch hiker"
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31895692545&gQT=3
but "hitchhiker" is the most common spelling these days. I'll point it
out to Will.
"Hitchhiker" is per Merriam-Webster.
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
"firefly" is not hyphenated.
I'd agree with that 100%. Good catch.
Thanks for your help.
If all you're going to do as "editor" is correct a couple of spelling
errors, you are proofreading, not editing. An editor takes a much more active role, pointing out grammatic and stylistic errors, suggesting improvements, etc.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 14:13:35 +0000, Michael Monkey MMP aka "HarryLime"
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 11:55:07 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 0:53:43 +0000, Michael Monkey MMP aka "HarryLime"
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:43:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
I have already posted these in another thread (at your Donkey's
request). For your convenience, I am reposting my comments below:
It's hardly convenient to have to wade through those comments to see if
you've found any other spelling or grammar errors, but at least it's
better than nothing. So to begin ...
You're welcome, George.
Spelling errors aren't the only thing an editor is supposed to fix.
As I look at it, most of the decisions on revising a poem properly
belong to the author; there's very little an editors should do on their
own other than proofreeding.; and since you're already discussing your suggestions with Will on another thread, the best thing for me to do is
to not not interfere. I'm sure other editors have other opinions,
though.
[QUOTE]
For starters, he hyphenated "never" as "ne-ver." Hyphenation is
something that the rest of us had mastered by the 5th grade.
That's not a very promising start. The word "never" appears in Will's
poem six times, and none of those times is it hyphenated. Maybe you
misunderstood; as Will's editor on this project I'm looking for spelling >>> or grammar errors in what he's written. "At" rather than "on" was a good >>> call, as it ended up in Will's poem, but "ne-ver" did not.
Will had asked two questions: 1) what errors did his "dazzling" high
school editor make ("ne-ver" was one of them, and 2) if I would point
out any corrections from him current, "corrected" copy. What follows
pertains to Will's corrected copy.
As to pointing out your errors, see below.
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
*ON* the floor. Not "at" it.
Got that one.
snip
snip"a life passed by" is the correct way of expressing this. However, the >>>> tense would be incorrect. "Lying there" is present tense, meaning that >>>> your speaker is in the present moment.
No, that's not correct. "I am lying there" would be present tense; "I
was lying there" would be past tense; the participle "lying" is not in a >>> tense.
Contextually, he is lying on the floor throughout the entire poem (if
I'm reading his gibberish correctly); in which case, he should be using
present tense throughout.
"Hitchhikers" is not hyphenated.
There's something.
I've seen "hitch-hiker" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitch-Hiker -
and
I've seen "hitch hiker"
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31895692545&gQT=3
but "hitchhiker" is the most common spelling these days. I'll point it
out to Will.
"Hitchhiker" is per Merriam-Webster.
Thanks, but I already looked at a couple of dictionaries including that
one.
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
"firefly" is not hyphenated.
I'd agree with that 100%. Good catch.
Thanks for your help.
If all you're going to do as "editor" is correct a couple of spelling
errors, you are proofreading, not editing. An editor takes a much more
active role, pointing out grammatic and stylistic errors, suggesting
improvements, etc.
I don't think an editor should do much more unilaterally than
proofreading. As for your discussion of the other changes with Will, I
can let him decide on those and bring them to me.
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 15:41:38 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 14:13:35 +0000, Michael Monkey MMP aka "HarryLime"
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 11:55:07 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
On Mon, 17 Feb 2025 0:53:43 +0000, Michael Monkey MMP aka "HarryLime"
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Feb 2025 13:43:00 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
I have already posted these in another thread (at your Donkey's
request). For your convenience, I am reposting my comments below:
It's hardly convenient to have to wade through those comments to see if >>>> you've found any other spelling or grammar errors, but at least it's
better than nothing. So to begin ...
You're welcome, George.
Spelling errors aren't the only thing an editor is supposed to fix.
As I look at it, most of the decisions on revising a poem properly
belong to the author; there's very little an editors should do on their
own other than proofreeding.; and since you're already discussing your
suggestions with Will on another thread, the best thing for me to do is
to not not interfere. I'm sure other editors have other opinions,
though.
[QUOTE]
For starters, he hyphenated "never" as "ne-ver." Hyphenation is
something that the rest of us had mastered by the 5th grade.
That's not a very promising start. The word "never" appears in Will's
poem six times, and none of those times is it hyphenated. Maybe you
misunderstood; as Will's editor on this project I'm looking for spelling >>>> or grammar errors in what he's written. "At" rather than "on" was a good >>>> call, as it ended up in Will's poem, but "ne-ver" did not.
Will had asked two questions: 1) what errors did his "dazzling" high
school editor make ("ne-ver" was one of them, and 2) if I would point
out any corrections from him current, "corrected" copy. What follows
pertains to Will's corrected copy.
As to pointing out your errors, see below.
Hopefully I caught them all in my later revisions.
Shattered
The seconds have piled up
at the floor
*ON* the floor. Not "at" it.
Got that one.
snip
snip"a life passed by" is the correct way of expressing this. However, the >>>>> tense would be incorrect. "Lying there" is present tense, meaning that >>>>> your speaker is in the present moment.
No, that's not correct. "I am lying there" would be present tense; "I
was lying there" would be past tense; the participle "lying" is not in a >>>> tense.
Contextually, he is lying on the floor throughout the entire poem (if
I'm reading his gibberish correctly); in which case, he should be using
present tense throughout.
"Hitchhikers" is not hyphenated.
There's something.
I've seen "hitch-hiker" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitch-Hiker - >>>> and
I've seen "hitch hiker"
https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31895692545&gQT=3
but "hitchhiker" is the most common spelling these days. I'll point it >>>> out to Will.
"Hitchhiker" is per Merriam-Webster.
Thanks, but I already looked at a couple of dictionaries including that
one.
snip
The light sped out
like a fire-fly
"firefly" is not hyphenated.
I'd agree with that 100%. Good catch.
Thanks for your help.
If all you're going to do as "editor" is correct a couple of spelling
errors, you are proofreading, not editing. An editor takes a much more
active role, pointing out grammatic and stylistic errors, suggesting
improvements, etc.
I don't think an editor should do much more unilaterally than
proofreading. As for your discussion of the other changes with Will, I
can let him decide on those and bring them to me.
I'm definitely considering all the suggestions but basically feel the
poem works pretty much as us after fixing the first line.
Thanks again George.
How's the edit going?
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