On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 21:44:28 +0000, NancyGene wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 16:07:21 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
So I did. I began with NastyGoon's claim, and what follows is the
conversation we had from it. (His comments are the ones in quotation
marks,
________________, if a poet uses a line from another poet in a poem of
his own, unattributed, does that make him a plagiarist?
Same question to ChatGPT - Answer:
"Yes, if a poet uses a line from another poet in their own poem without
attribution, that is considered plagiarism. Plagiarism is the act of
taking someone else’s words, ideas, or creative work and presenting them >> as one’s own without proper credit. In poetry, borrowing lines, phrases, >> or even stylistic elements is common, but ethical and literary standards
require acknowledgment.
However, if the line is well-known or has entered common usage (such as
Shakespearean phrases or lines from ancient epics), it might not be
considered plagiarism. Some poets also engage in intertextuality or
allusion, where they reference other works, but typically, they signal
this through quotation marks, italics, or explicit acknowledgment."
-----
Same question to Gemini - Answer:
"Yes, generally, using another poet's line in your own poem without
attribution is considered plagiarism. Here's a breakdown of why:
Copyright and Intellectual Property: Even short phrases can be
considered intellectual property. While copyright law is complex, and
"common phrases" are generally not protected, a unique phrase within a
specific context, especially a literary one, can be.
Authorship and Originality: Poetry, like other forms of writing, values
originality. Using someone else's words without acknowledging them
misrepresents the source of those words and falsely claims them as your
own.
Ethical Considerations: Plagiarism is a breach of ethical conduct within
the literary community. It demonstrates a lack of respect for the
original author's work and undermines the integrity of creative
expression.
Context Matters: The degree to which a lifted line is considered
plagiarism can depend on its context. A very common phrase might be less
problematic, but a distinctive line, especially one that carries
significant meaning within its original poem, is more clearly
plagiarism.
Intentionality: Whether the plagiarism was intentional or unintentional
doesn't necessarily absolve the writer of responsibility. While
unintentional plagiarism might be viewed more leniently, it still
constitutes a misrepresentation of authorship.
Exceptions and Nuances:
Allusion and Homage: Poets sometimes allude to or pay homage to other
poets by incorporating lines or phrases into their work. However, this
is usually done with some form of acknowledgment or in a way that
clearly signals the reference.
Parody and Pastiche: These forms of writing intentionally borrow from
other works for satirical or artistic purposes. In these cases, the
borrowing is usually obvious and part of the artistic intent.
Public Domain: Works that are in the public domain are not subject to
copyright restrictions.
In most cases, using another poet's line without attribution is
considered plagiarism and is unethical."
-----
George Dance, you and your AI friend are not fooling anyone.
--
I don't think George is trying to fool anyone, Nancy Gene.
Hell, you use artificial intelligence technology often, yourself.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 21:44:28 +0000, NancyGene wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 16:07:21 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
So I did. I began with NastyGoon's claim, and what follows is the
conversation we had from it. (His comments are the ones in quotation
marks,
________________, if a poet uses a line from another poet in a poem
of his own, unattributed, does that make him a plagiarist?
Same question to ChatGPT - Answer:
"Yes, if a poet uses a line from another poet in their own poem
without attribution, that is considered plagiarism. Plagiarism is the
act of taking someone else’s words, ideas, or creative work and
presenting them as one’s own without proper credit. In poetry,
borrowing lines, phrases, or even stylistic elements is common, but
ethical and literary standards require acknowledgment.
However, if the line is well-known or has entered common usage (such
as Shakespearean phrases or lines from ancient epics), it might not
be considered plagiarism. Some poets also engage in intertextuality
or allusion, where they reference other works, but typically, they
signal this through quotation marks, italics, or explicit
acknowledgment." -----
Same question to Gemini - Answer:
"Yes, generally, using another poet's line in your own poem without
attribution is considered plagiarism. Here's a breakdown of why:
Copyright and Intellectual Property: Even short phrases can be
considered intellectual property. While copyright law is complex, and
"common phrases" are generally not protected, a unique phrase within
a specific context, especially a literary one, can be.
Authorship and Originality: Poetry, like other forms of writing,
values originality. Using someone else's words without acknowledging
them misrepresents the source of those words and falsely claims them
as your own.
Ethical Considerations: Plagiarism is a breach of ethical conduct
within the literary community. It demonstrates a lack of respect for
the original author's work and undermines the integrity of creative
expression.
Context Matters: The degree to which a lifted line is considered
plagiarism can depend on its context. A very common phrase might be
less problematic, but a distinctive line, especially one that carries
significant meaning within its original poem, is more clearly
plagiarism.
Intentionality: Whether the plagiarism was intentional or
unintentional doesn't necessarily absolve the writer of
responsibility. While unintentional plagiarism might be viewed more
leniently, it still constitutes a misrepresentation of authorship.
Exceptions and Nuances:
Allusion and Homage: Poets sometimes allude to or pay homage to other
poets by incorporating lines or phrases into their work. However,
this is usually done with some form of acknowledgment or in a way
that clearly signals the reference.
Parody and Pastiche: These forms of writing intentionally borrow from
other works for satirical or artistic purposes. In these cases, the
borrowing is usually obvious and part of the artistic intent.
Public Domain: Works that are in the public domain are not subject to
copyright restrictions.
In most cases, using another poet's line without attribution is
considered plagiarism and is unethical."
-----
George Dance, you and your AI friend are not fooling anyone.
BUSTED!!!
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 16:07:21 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
So I did. I began with NastyGoon's claim, and what follows is the
conversation we had from it. (His comments are the ones in quotation
marks,
________________, if a poet uses a line from another poet in a poem of
his own, unattributed, does that make him a plagiarist?
Same question to ChatGPT - Answer:
"Yes, if a poet uses a line from another poet in their own poem without attribution, that is considered plagiarism. Plagiarism is the act of
taking someone else’s words, ideas, or creative work and presenting them
as one’s own without proper credit. In poetry, borrowing lines, phrases,
or even stylistic elements is common, but ethical and literary standards require acknowledgment.
However, if the line is well-known or has entered common usage (such as Shakespearean phrases or lines from ancient epics), it might not be considered plagiarism. Some poets also engage in intertextuality or
allusion, where they reference other works, but typically, they signal
this through quotation marks, italics, or explicit acknowledgment."
-----
Same question to Gemini - Answer:
"Yes, generally, using another poet's line in your own poem without attribution is considered plagiarism. Here's a breakdown of why:
Copyright and Intellectual Property: Even short phrases can be
considered intellectual property. While copyright law is complex, and
"common phrases" are generally not protected, a unique phrase within a specific context, especially a literary one, can be.
Authorship and Originality: Poetry, like other forms of writing, values originality. Using someone else's words without acknowledging them misrepresents the source of those words and falsely claims them as your
own.
Ethical Considerations: Plagiarism is a breach of ethical conduct within
the literary community. It demonstrates a lack of respect for the
original author's work and undermines the integrity of creative
expression.
Context Matters: The degree to which a lifted line is considered
plagiarism can depend on its context. A very common phrase might be less problematic, but a distinctive line, especially one that carries
significant meaning within its original poem, is more clearly
plagiarism.
Intentionality: Whether the plagiarism was intentional or unintentional doesn't necessarily absolve the writer of responsibility. While
unintentional plagiarism might be viewed more leniently, it still
constitutes a misrepresentation of authorship.
Exceptions and Nuances:
Allusion and Homage: Poets sometimes allude to or pay homage to other
poets by incorporating lines or phrases into their work. However, this
is usually done with some form of acknowledgment or in a way that
clearly signals the reference.
Parody and Pastiche: These forms of writing intentionally borrow from
other works for satirical or artistic purposes. In these cases, the
borrowing is usually obvious and part of the artistic intent.
Public Domain: Works that are in the public domain are not subject to copyright restrictions.
In most cases, using another poet's line without attribution is
considered plagiarism and is unethical."
-----
George Dance, you and your AI friend are not fooling anyone.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 0:41:21 +0000, Cujo DeSockpuppet wrote:
Can he get any more sleazy? He's practically at Dreckweasel level now.If you mean "how low can he go," evidently George Dance's odiousness is bottomless.
Now George Dance claims that his trusted source is an AI site which has conversations with him and gives him compliments!
We had posted AI
results on the line that George Dance insisted was plagiarized, which
showed that the line did not exist in any Robert Creeley poem. However, George Dance did not accept that.
Perhaps his artificial intelligence
is more artificial than ours?
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 16:07:21 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
So I did. I began with NastyGoon's claim, and what follows is the
conversation we had from it. (His comments are the ones in quotation
marks,
________________, if a poet uses a line from another poet in a poem of
his own, unattributed, does that make him a plagiarist?
Same question to ChatGPT - Answer:
"Yes, if a poet uses a line from another poet in their own poem without attribution, that is considered plagiarism. Plagiarism is the act of
taking someone else’s words, ideas, or creative work and presenting them
as one’s own without proper credit. In poetry, borrowing lines, phrases,
or even stylistic elements is common, but ethical and literary standards require acknowledgment.
However, if the line is well-known or has entered common usage (such as Shakespearean phrases or lines from ancient epics), it might not be considered plagiarism. Some poets also engage in intertextuality or
allusion, where they reference other works, but typically, they signal
this through quotation marks, italics, or explicit acknowledgment."
-----
Same question to Gemini - Answer:
"Yes, generally, using another poet's line in your own poem without attribution is considered plagiarism. Here's a breakdown of why:
Copyright and Intellectual Property: Even short phrases can be
considered intellectual property. While copyright law is complex, and
"common phrases" are generally not protected, a unique phrase within a specific context, especially a literary one, can be.
Authorship and Originality: Poetry, like other forms of writing, values originality. Using someone else's words without acknowledging them misrepresents the source of those words and falsely claims them as your
own.
Ethical Considerations: Plagiarism is a breach of ethical conduct within
the literary community. It demonstrates a lack of respect for the
original author's work and undermines the integrity of creative
expression.
Context Matters: The degree to which a lifted line is considered
plagiarism can depend on its context. A very common phrase might be less problematic, but a distinctive line, especially one that carries
significant meaning within its original poem, is more clearly
plagiarism.
Intentionality: Whether the plagiarism was intentional or unintentional doesn't necessarily absolve the writer of responsibility. While
unintentional plagiarism might be viewed more leniently, it still
constitutes a misrepresentation of authorship.
Exceptions and Nuances:
Allusion and Homage: Poets sometimes allude to or pay homage to other
poets by incorporating lines or phrases into their work. However, this
is usually done with some form of acknowledgment or in a way that
clearly signals the reference.
Parody and Pastiche: These forms of writing intentionally borrow from
other works for satirical or artistic purposes. In these cases, the
borrowing is usually obvious and part of the artistic intent.
Public Domain: Works that are in the public domain are not subject to copyright restrictions.
In most cases, using another poet's line without attribution is
considered plagiarism and is unethical."
George Dance, you and your AI friend are not fooling anyone.
BUSTED!!!
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 0:28:07 +0000, W.Dockery wrote:
I know Nancy Gene uses artificial intelligence for writing poetry as
well, which seems unethical in a way.
Will Dockery, what is the proof for your statement that we "use(s)
artificial intelligence for writing poetry..." We have never used
artificial intelligence for writing any of our poems and don't intend
to. We take that as another libelous accusation that you have made
against us, along with plagiarism.
You are on dangerous ground here, Will Dockery.
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 21:44:28 +0000, NancyGene wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2025 16:07:21 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
So I did. I began with NastyGoon's claim, and what follows is the
conversation we had from it. (His comments are the ones in quotation
marks,
________________, if a poet uses a line from another poet in a poem of
his own, unattributed, does that make him a plagiarist?
Same question to ChatGPT - Answer:
"Yes, if a poet uses a line from another poet in their own poem without
attribution, that is considered plagiarism. Plagiarism is the act of
taking someone else’s words, ideas, or creative work and presenting them >> as one’s own without proper credit. In poetry, borrowing lines, phrases, >> or even stylistic elements is common, but ethical and literary standards
require acknowledgment.
However, if the line is well-known or has entered common usage (such as
Shakespearean phrases or lines from ancient epics), it might not be
considered plagiarism. Some poets also engage in intertextuality or
allusion, where they reference other works, but typically, they signal
this through quotation marks, italics, or explicit acknowledgment."
-----
Same question to Gemini - Answer:
"Yes, generally, using another poet's line in your own poem without
attribution is considered plagiarism. Here's a breakdown of why:
Copyright and Intellectual Property: Even short phrases can be
considered intellectual property. While copyright law is complex, and
"common phrases" are generally not protected, a unique phrase within a
specific context, especially a literary one, can be.
It can be, but that doesn't apply to all authors. An author whose works
are in the public domain can be quoted, with or without attribution,
without violating IP laws in any way. There's nothing "complex" about
that; it's shit simple.
Authorship and Originality: Poetry, like other forms of writing, values
originality. Using someone else's words without acknowledging them
misrepresents the source of those words and falsely claims them as your
own.
No one can write a poem or anything FTM using only "unique" words; no
one would be able to understand it. Poets have to use words that other people, including other poets have previously used.
Ethical Considerations: Plagiarism is a breach of ethical conduct within
the literary community. It demonstrates a lack of respect for the
original author's work and undermines the integrity of creative
expression.
It sound like Gemini AI is quoting, but it's not giving any
attributions. Is Gemini AI committing "plagiarism"? Is it breaching
ethical conduct?
Context Matters: The degree to which a lifted line is considered
plagiarism can depend on its context. A very common phrase might be less
problematic, but a distinctive line, especially one that carries
significant meaning within its original poem, is more clearly
plagiarism.
Four paragraphs down, Gemini AI is finally saying that lifting a line
may or may not be considered "plagiarism".
Intentionality: Whether the plagiarism was intentional or unintentional
doesn't necessarily absolve the writer of responsibility. While
unintentional plagiarism might be viewed more leniently, it still
constitutes a misrepresentation of authorship.
"Unintentional plagiarism" opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. Is a
poet supposed to do a google search for every line in his poem to make
sure it was never used on the web? If a web search does find an exact
match, how can it be proven whether the poet ever read it or heard of
it, or not?
Exceptions and Nuances:
Allusion and Homage: Poets sometimes allude to or pay homage to other
poets by incorporating lines or phrases into their work. However, this
is usually done with some form of acknowledgment or in a way that
clearly signals the reference.
So allusion is not plagiarism, even when there is no attribution.
Parody and Pastiche: These forms of writing intentionally borrow from
other works for satirical or artistic purposes. In these cases, the
borrowing is usually obvious and part of the artistic intent.
So pastiche is not plagiarism, even when there is no attribution.
Public Domain: Works that are in the public domain are not subject to
copyright restrictions.
There is no "public domain" exception for plagiarism. If it's plagiarism
to use a line from a copyrighted work, it's plagiarism to use a line
from a public domain work.
In most cases, using another poet's line without attribution is
considered plagiarism and is unethical."
Maybe. Since Gemini AI doesn't provide any data on cases, this sounds
like pure speculation.
George Dance, you and your AI friend are not fooling anyone.
Nor are you and your AI friend, NastyGoon.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 0:23:39 +0000, Michael Monkey Peabrain aka
"HarryLime" wrote:
BUSTED!!!
Good morning, HarryLiar. Do you have anything to say about the subject?
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 0:53:35 +0000, NancyGene wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 0:41:21 +0000, Cujo DeSockpuppet wrote:
Can he get any more sleazy? He's practically at Dreckweasel level now.If you mean "how low can he go," evidently George Dance's odiousness is
bottomless.
What's sleazy about using an AI, NastyGoon? You've admitted using them yourself, in this very thread.
Now George Dance claims that his trusted source is an AI site which has
conversations with him and gives him compliments!
Technically, NastyGoon, I have conversations with the AI; I'm the one
who initiates them. The AI doesn't pop up to ask me things on its own.
We had posted AI
results on the line that George Dance insisted was plagiarized, which
showed that the line did not exist in any Robert Creeley poem. However,
George Dance did not accept that.
Of course not, since in this case one or the other AIs was giving
incorrect information. I didn't "accept" my AI's claim, but ordered a
copy of the book he claimed contained the line. You didn't "accept" your
AI's claim either, but did a Google search.
Perhaps his artificial intelligence
is more artificial than ours?
Mine has admitted that it can give incorrect results, since its answers
are based on information availabe to it at the time, not on all possible information. What does your AI claim?
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 21:43:08 +0000, HarryLime wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 17:11:41 +0000, George J. Dance wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 0:53:35 +0000, NancyGene wrote:
On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 0:41:21 +0000, Cujo DeSockpuppet wrote:
What's sleazy about using an AI, NastyGoon? You've admitted using them
yourself, in this very thread.
Exactly.
Now George Dance claims that his trusted source is an AI site which has >>>> conversations with him and gives him compliments!
Technically, NastyGoon, I have conversations with the AI; I'm the one
who initiates them. The AI doesn't pop up to ask me things on its own.
We had posted AI
results on the line that George Dance insisted was plagiarized, which
showed that the line did not exist in any Robert Creeley poem. However, >>>> George Dance did not accept that.
Of course not, since in this case one or the other AIs was giving
incorrect information. I didn't "accept" my AI's claim, but ordered a
copy of the book he claimed contained the line. You didn't "accept" your >>> AI's claim either, but did a Google search.
Perhaps his artificial intelligence
is more artificial than ours?
Mine has admitted that it can give incorrect results, since its answers
are based on information availabe to it at the time, not on all possible >>> information. What does your AI claim?
"My AI's bigger than your AI!" -- George Dance
Childish jeering from Harry Lime noted.
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