On Saturday, November 25, 2023 at 12:51:18 PM UTC-5, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

On 11/25/2023 5:28 AM, James Nicoll wrote:

In article <5e8e01a0-850f-422e...@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

The recent drama at OpenAI kind of feels like the opening chapters
of a Technological Singularity novel.

If by singularity you mean the latest resource-wasting bullshit from gullible and in some cases deranged techbros, maybe. Your classic singularity generally doesn't involve shitty turbo-autofill.

That's just the waste product they produce, much like the waste product
of biological digestion....

"Quantity is a quality all of its own".

Enough "shitty autofill" is being done to create works useful to their requesters, at the moment mainly high school essay writers.

That you disdain the 'techbros' for their arrogance and self-importance doesn't mean they can't create something significant.

I found this essay by an AI professor very interesting in exploring just
what the breakthrough might be. It skips all the personal drama, and goes
Into considerable depth (at least for a nonexpert) about the techniques involved, and why they may well have gotten beyond "shitty autofill".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lanceeliot/2023/11/26/about-that-mysterious-ai-breakthrough-known-as-q-by-openai-that-allegedly-attains-true-ai-or-is-on-the-path-toward-artificial-general-intelligence-agi/

https://tinyurl.com/mpryfm2x

Pt

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In article <4fad24e3-8c31-4d6a-9e02-2849a1515a36n@googlegroups.com>, pete...@gmail.com <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 25, 2023 at 12:51:18 PM UTC-5, Dimensional
Traveler wrote:

On 11/25/2023 5:28 AM, James Nicoll wrote:

In article <5e8e01a0-850f-422e...@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

The recent drama at OpenAI kind of feels like the opening chapters
of a Technological Singularity novel.

If by singularity you mean the latest resource-wasting bullshit from
gullible and in some cases deranged techbros, maybe. Your classic
singularity generally doesn't involve shitty turbo-autofill.

That's just the waste product they produce, much like the waste product
of biological digestion....

"Quantity is a quality all of its own".

Enough "shitty autofill" is being done to create works useful to their >requesters, at the moment mainly high school essay writers.

That you disdain the 'techbros' for their arrogance and self-importance >doesn't mean they can't create something significant.

I found this essay by an AI professor very interesting in exploring just
what the breakthrough might be. It skips all the personal drama, and goes >Into considerable depth (at least for a nonexpert) about the techniques >involved, and why they may well have gotten beyond "shitty autofill".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lanceeliot/2023/11/26/about-that-mysterious-ai-breakthrough-known-as-q-by-openai-that-allegedly-attains-true-ai-or-is-on-the-path-toward-artificial-general-intelligence-agi/

https://tinyurl.com/mpryfm2x

Ah, yes. Forbes, visionary celebrators of herioc technological pioneers
such as Bankman-Fried, Shkreli, and Elizabeth Holmes. Got a source that
is not one specialzing in promotional blowjobs for the soon-to-be-
mugshotted?
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 12:21:07 PM UTC-5, James Nicoll wrote:

In article <4fad24e3-8c31-4d6a...@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, November 25, 2023 at 12:51:18 PM UTC-5, Dimensional >Traveler wrote:

On 11/25/2023 5:28 AM, James Nicoll wrote:

In article <5e8e01a0-850f-422e...@googlegroups.com>,
pete...@gmail.com <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

The recent drama at OpenAI kind of feels like the opening chapters
of a Technological Singularity novel.

If by singularity you mean the latest resource-wasting bullshit from
gullible and in some cases deranged techbros, maybe. Your classic
singularity generally doesn't involve shitty turbo-autofill.

That's just the waste product they produce, much like the waste product >> of biological digestion....

"Quantity is a quality all of its own".

Enough "shitty autofill" is being done to create works useful to their >requesters, at the moment mainly high school essay writers.

That you disdain the 'techbros' for their arrogance and self-importance >doesn't mean they can't create something significant.

I found this essay by an AI professor very interesting in exploring just >what the breakthrough might be. It skips all the personal drama, and goes >Into considerable depth (at least for a nonexpert) about the techniques >involved, and why they may well have gotten beyond "shitty autofill".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lanceeliot/2023/11/26/about-that-mysterious-ai-breakthrough-known-as-q-by-openai-that-allegedly-attains-true-ai-or-is-on-the-path-toward-artificial-general-intelligence-agi/

https://tinyurl.com/mpryfm2x

Ah, yes. Forbes, visionary celebrators of herioc technological pioneers
such as Bankman-Fried, Shkreli, and Elizabeth Holmes. Got a source that
is not one specialzing in promotional blowjobs for the soon-to-be- mugshotted?

Ad hominem much?

Pt

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On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 11:54:36 AM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote: [snip-snip]

I found this essay by an AI professor very interesting in exploring just what the breakthrough might be. It skips all the personal drama, and goes Into considerable depth (at least for a nonexpert) about the techniques involved, and why they may well have gotten beyond "shitty autofill".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lanceeliot/2023/11/26/about-that-mysterious-ai-breakthrough-known-as-q-by-openai-that-allegedly-attains-true-ai-or-is-on-the-path-toward-artificial-general-intelligence-agi/

https://tinyurl.com/mpryfm2x

Lance Eliot starts by admitting that we have no idea what the rumored breakthrough may be or whether it's even real:

Nobody has yet been able to find out and report specifically on what this mysterious AI breakthrough consists of (if indeed such an AI breakthrough
was at all devised or invented). This situation could be like one of those circumstances where the actual occurrence is a far cry from the rumors
that have reverberated in the media. Maybe the reality is that something of modest AI advancement was discovered but doesn’t deserve the hoopla
that has ensued.

[snip]

perhaps the believed assertion of being on the path to AGI is nothing
more than a techie hunch.

Those kinds of hunches are at times hit-and-miss.

You see, this is the way that those ad hoc hunches frequently go. You
think you’ve landed on the right trail, but you are actually once again back in the woods. Or you are on the correct trail, but the top of the mountain is still miles upon miles in the distance. Simply saying or believing that you are on the path to AGI is not necessarily the same as being on said path. Even if you are on the AGI path, perhaps the advancement is a mere inch whilst the distance ahead is still far away.

He then uses these rumors as an excuse to describe various challenges
that AI researchers have been dealing with for the last few decades. I
thought it was a useful introductory overview.

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On 11/24/2023 11:01 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:

The recent drama at OpenAI kind of feels like the opening chapters
of a Technological Singularity novel.

Pt

Definitely a Michael Crichton novel candidate.

I found ELIZA to be fairly creepy back when I tried it out 30+ years
ago. I suspect a few SF stories used it back then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

Lynn

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On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 2:50:52 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

I found ELIZA to be fairly creepy

What makes you think that ELIZA is fairly creepy?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. As is well known, though, the
"intelligence" of ELIZA is all an illusion; it just takes
words from what the user has typed, and puts them into
a limited number of canned reply phrases.
It's only real intelligence is picking out substantive
words and ignoring conjunctions and the like.

So your example suggests that, if the situation with
current AI is similar, that the capabilities of current
AI are not frightening, the only scary thing is what
people mistakenly imagine it to be.

But that's overoptimistic. "General" intelligence may
be years - or ages - away, but current AI technology
does have some genuinely impressive capabilities.

John Savard

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On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 15:50:47 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/24/2023 11:01 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:

The recent drama at OpenAI kind of feels like the opening chapters
of a Technological Singularity novel.

Pt

Definitely a Michael Crichton novel candidate.

I found ELIZA to be fairly creepy back when I tried it out 30+ years
ago. I suspect a few SF stories used it back then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

Crichton's "The Terminal Man" had a bit listing a conversation between
a friendly AI program and a hostile one (both text-based, being the
70s), likely intended as a hint of what was going to happen to the Man
in question.

I don't think that scene made it into the movie version (with George
Segal playing against type).

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

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On 27/11/2023 15.50, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 11/24/2023 11:01 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:

The recent drama at OpenAI kind of feels like the opening chapters
of a Technological Singularity novel.

Definitely a Michael Crichton novel candidate.

I found ELIZA to be fairly creepy back when I tried it out 30+ years ago.  I suspect a few SF stories used it back then.
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

In the early 1980s, I managed to hack into a copy of it and was briefly
amused. I then showed it to Tammy, who was a programmer where I was
working. She sat down and started interacting with it. After three or
four lines of dialogue, she turned to me and said, "Mike, could you
please leave? This is getting pretty personal."

I was amazed that anybody smart enough to be a programmer could be
fooled by such simple text manipulation. So much for the Turing Test!

--
Michael F. Stemper
Economists have correctly predicted seven of the last three recessions.

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On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 13:08:21 -0600, "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

On 27/11/2023 15.50, Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 11/24/2023 11:01 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:

The recent drama at OpenAI kind of feels like the opening chapters
of a Technological Singularity novel.

Definitely a Michael Crichton novel candidate.

I found ELIZA to be fairly creepy back when I tried it out 30+ years ago.  I suspect a few SF stories used it back then.
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

In the early 1980s, I managed to hack into a copy of it and was briefly >amused. I then showed it to Tammy, who was a programmer where I was
working. She sat down and started interacting with it. After three or
four lines of dialogue, she turned to me and said, "Mike, could you
please leave? This is getting pretty personal."

I was amazed that anybody smart enough to be a programmer could be
fooled by such simple text manipulation. So much for the Turing Test!

It has been a long time since I read it, but IIRC in Joseph
Weizenbaum's /Computer Power and Human Reason: From Judgement to
Calculation/ the author had a similar experience with his secretary.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

I was amazed that anybody smart enough to be a programmer could be
fooled by such simple text manipulation. So much for the Turing Test!

It goes both ways. I had a roommate in college who could not pass the
Turing Test either. He was indistinguishable from a random phrase
generator.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 13:08:21 -0600, "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

I was amazed that anybody smart enough to be a programmer could be
fooled by such simple text manipulation. So much for the Turing Test!

Was she fooled, or was she using it as intended?

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

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On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 15:50:47 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

I found ELIZA to be fairly creepy back when I tried it out 30+ years
ago. I suspect a few SF stories used it back then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

As I remember, some of my buddies way back when obtained a copy of the
source code of one of the more detailed versions and reworked it into
a sexy bombshell version. Imagine an even more over the top Leisure
Suit Larry.

(Fortunately I graduated about that time and lost track of these
guys...)

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