• Re: "Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in hu

    From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to lynnmcguire5@gmail.com on Wed Feb 7 21:17:38 2024
    In article <uq0q5c$1j61f$1@dont-email.me>,
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    "Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in humans"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1al2fg5/please_help_to_find_a_book_about_alien_ai/

    "Hello fellow redditors,"

    "A long time ago, in a country far, far away I started reading a book...
    and didn't have an opportunity to finish it."

    "Now, for the life of me, can't remember neither the title nor the author."

    "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
    violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
    possible, but acts of violence are "disabled". The story followed
    several protagonists."

    " Suggestions with stories following similar (or same) premise are
    also welcome!"

    I am fairly certain that it is not "Childhood's End".

    Lynn

    There are some elements of Niven's "Cloak of Anarchy" albeit probably
    not enough. Also some elements of van Vogt's "The Harmonizer".
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to Lynn McGuire on Wed Feb 7 21:44:17 2024
    On 2024-02-07, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
    violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
    possible, but acts of violence are "disabled".

    Intriguing. What exactly counts as violence? Can you build a death
    trap for your unwary neighbor to perish in? Also, how do you enforce
    laws without violence? What's your mechanism to sanction nonviolent
    crime? What percentage of humanity dies in this benevolent societal transformation?

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Titus G@21:1/5 to Christian Weisgerber on Thu Feb 8 15:23:55 2024
    On 8/02/24 10:44, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
    On 2024-02-07, Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
    violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
    possible, but acts of violence are "disabled".

    Intriguing. What exactly counts as violence? Can you build a death
    trap for your unwary neighbor to perish in?

    I think you will have to wait and try it for yourself after the alien AI arrives.

    Also, how do you enforce
    laws without violence? What's your mechanism to sanction nonviolent
    crime?

    Ostracisation? Yes, certainly intriguing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to Titus G on Thu Feb 8 14:52:48 2024
    On 2024-02-08, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

    "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
    violent acts in human population.

    Intriguing. What exactly counts as violence? Can you build a death
    trap for your unwary neighbor to perish in?

    I think you will have to wait and try it for yourself after the alien AI arrives.

    The point is, there is "I split my neighbor's skull with a hatchet"
    (a violent act), then there is "my neighbor injured himself with a
    chainsaw and I stood idly by and watched him bleed to death" (not
    a violent act), and a lot of area in between where you allow or
    facilitate bodily harm without engaging in a violent act yourself.

    It's very unclear what forms of coercion count as "violent".

    Also, how do you enforce
    laws without violence? What's your mechanism to sanction nonviolent
    crime?

    Ostracisation? Yes, certainly intriguing.

    Yes, I expect various degrees of shunning to become the dominant
    mechanism, up to effective death sentences.

    I hope somebody can identify the book and we can learn whether the
    author thought this idea through.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to jerry.friedman99@gmail.com on Thu Feb 8 19:20:58 2024
    Jerry Friedman <jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:
    People could be punished with fines, and in a world where most money
    is electronic (if you can imagine that), physical damage or threats
    wouldn't be needed. Fines are especially appropriate since a lot of >nonviolent crime is financial.

    So is a lot, perhaps even most, of violent crime. People are very
    big on money.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ignatios Souvatzis@21:1/5 to Lynn McGuire on Fri Feb 9 15:03:16 2024
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    "Please help to find a book about alien AI disabling violence in humans"

    https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/1al2fg5/please_help_to_find_a_book_about_alien_ai/

    "Hello fellow redditors,"

    "A long time ago, in a country far, far away I started reading a book...
    and didn't have an opportunity to finish it."

    "Now, for the life of me, can't remember neither the title nor the author."

    "Premise: alien AI orbits Earth and disables the ability to carryout
    violent acts in human population. Thoughts about violence are still
    possible, but acts of violence are "disabled". The story followed
    several protagonists."

    Not same, but some elements apply:

    Stanislav Lem, Transfer

    An expedition to Fomalhaut returns after 127 years of earth-time,
    10 years of expedition time (due to relativistic time dilation).

    Earth has transformed into a war-less, accident-less society; humans
    get their aggression edited out of them right after birth. Side-effect:
    they also avoid any risk.

    -is

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to Ignatios Souvatzis on Fri Feb 9 15:24:25 2024
    On 2024-02-09, Ignatios Souvatzis <u502sou@bnhb484.de> wrote:

    Not same, but some elements apply:

    Stanislav Lem, Transfer

    That's the German title. The original one is _Powrót z gwiazd_,
    the English one _Return from the Stars_.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From WolfFan@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 10 10:09:29 2024
    On Feb 10, 2024, Quadibloc wrote
    (in article<9b9ca8d3-6d0e-437c-8b01-56ab1485e86en@googlegroups.com>):

    On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 1:47:19 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    "Rejoice, A Knife to the Heart. Steven Erikson."

    "I believe this is the right answer. There are several acts of violence
    in the book shown to be stopped, mid violence. ie, hot oil tossed at an abusive husband splatters harmlessly in the air directly in front of him."

    "Edit: the AI also is in Earths’ orbit, and the story has several protagonists. A female scifi writer is the lead protagonist and goes to space before coming back to hover over the UN in a custom made Klingon warship to make a point."

    I found a review of the book. The author is a Canadian.

    In addition to violence between humans being prevented, exploitation
    of the Earth's resources is also prevented by force fields. Apparently, though,
    this is a temporary condition: the focus of the book is on the conversation between the aliens and the sci-fi writer; apparently, the aliens are simply preventing us from digging ourselves in any deeper while they figure out how they can help us.

    However, preventing the exploitation of the Earth's resources is likely to create
    panic, and interfere with our ability to *feed everyone* in the interim. It makes me
    inclined to dismiss the book, sight unseen, as about aliens who are more interested
    in grandstanding than helping.

    John Savard

    Given certain attitudes in the more extreme green/animal rights fringe, the fact that preventing the explotation of the Earth’s resources causes mass starvation would be a plus, as it would get rid of the ‘excess population. And the prevention of violence would prevent the starving hordes from trying
    to do something about it. Win-win.

    I suspect that I will not be going out of my way to find this book.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Titus G@21:1/5 to WolfFan on Sun Feb 11 09:57:20 2024
    On 11/02/24 04:09, WolfFan wrote:
    On Feb 10, 2024, Quadibloc wrote
    (in article<9b9ca8d3-6d0e-437c-8b01-56ab1485e86en@googlegroups.com>):

    On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 1:47:19 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    "Rejoice, A Knife to the Heart. Steven Erikson."

    "I believe this is the right answer. There are several acts of violence
    in the book shown to be stopped, mid violence. ie, hot oil tossed at an
    abusive husband splatters harmlessly in the air directly in front of him." >>>
    "Edit: the AI also is in Earths’ orbit, and the story has several
    protagonists. A female scifi writer is the lead protagonist and goes to
    space before coming back to hover over the UN in a custom made Klingon
    warship to make a point."

    I found a review of the book. The author is a Canadian.

    In addition to violence between humans being prevented, exploitation
    of the Earth's resources is also prevented by force fields. Apparently,
    though,
    this is a temporary condition: the focus of the book is on the conversation >> between the aliens and the sci-fi writer; apparently, the aliens are simply >> preventing us from digging ourselves in any deeper while they figure out how >> they can help us.

    However, preventing the exploitation of the Earth's resources is likely to >> create
    panic, and interfere with our ability to *feed everyone* in the interim. It >> makes me
    inclined to dismiss the book, sight unseen, as about aliens who are more
    interested
    in grandstanding than helping.

    John Savard

    Given certain attitudes in the more extreme green/animal rights fringe, the fact that preventing the explotation of the Earth’s resources causes mass starvation would be a plus, as it would get rid of the ‘excess population. And the prevention of violence would prevent the starving hordes from trying to do something about it. Win-win.

    I suspect that I will not be going out of my way to find this book.


    I started reading this yesterday but didn't get very far, maybe fifty
    pages, before back to the library. I did not enjoy the writing style,
    nor the stereotyped plastic people so just browsed through the rest. I
    was more interested in the question of how violence would be prevented,
    (alien magic), and possible unforeseen consequences, (not mentioned or
    glossed over; eg it was impossible to physically harm any animal but
    domestic meat production continued.)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@21:1/5 to Jerry Friedman on Fri Feb 16 19:28:18 2024
    On 2024-02-08, Jerry Friedman <jerry.friedman99@gmail.com> wrote:

    The first answer in the reddit thread seems to fit the description exactly. /Rejoice, a Knife to the Heart/ by Steven Erikson.

    "People move freely, with millions of refugees all over the place – so
    the aliens supply them with food and cover to. No one hurts anyone, and
    there is enough of basic resources for everyone." https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/a9ep8v/review_of_rejoice_a_knife_to_the_heart_by_steven/

    I see. More alien magic, to blunt the unpleasant consequences of
    the premise. That doesn't sound particularly interesting.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)