• Poul Anderson's essay "On Thud and Blunder"

    From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 28 22:00:04 2024
    I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
    According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
    III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
    that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
    1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. ‹-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to robertaw@drizzle.com on Thu Feb 29 13:38:51 2024
    In article <robertaw-3E38EE.22000428022024@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors >writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building). >According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
    III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
    that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
    1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still >appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for >historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. >‹-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    I'm not sure it was just "lazy" authors.

    As I recall, one reason Howard turned to the Conan setting is that
    he was trying to sell historical adventures to "Oriental Stories"
    and kept getting dinged on the historical details, didn't have the
    time or resourses to research everything, and decided "screw this"
    and made his own world, perhaps not 100% consistent but having
    whatever setting he needed. But he was hardly lazy, just needed
    to be faster to make a living.

    Something similar with Lieber I think. Lovecraft dinged him on the
    Fafhrd & Mouser story set on Earth, and he decided the same: Well,
    this is how stuff works on Newhon!
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to rja.carnegie@gmail.com on Fri Mar 1 08:35:27 2024
    On Thu, 29 Feb 2024 20:51:22 +0000, Robert Carnegie
    <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 29/02/2024 06:00, Robert Woodward wrote:
    I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors
    writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
    According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
    III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
    that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
    1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
    appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
    historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).

    And here it is.
    <https://www.sfwa.org/2005/01/04/on-thud-and-blunder/>

    I've been told on Quora that one statement
    is nonsense - the claim that a stallion,
    a sexually mature male horse, "is not safe
    to have around a menstruating woman".
    If I say I don't have the resources to
    investigate, that sounds wrong, but I don't.
    But a lady tells me that it wasn't a problem.

    I suppose it could be a real-world myth
    amongst some or all horse handlers.
    If Poul Anderson has just accurately said
    that "A stallion is notoriously hard to
    control", then people will usually take
    steps to, er, not have a stallion.
    (An imaginary horse and many readers
    nervously cross their legs.) So then
    it rarely arises. So to speak.

    Anything to keep the women barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.

    Not my goal, BTW. Or yours, I am sure.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to Tony Nance on Fri Mar 1 21:54:44 2024
    In article <urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
    Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
    I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building). According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
    that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
    1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).


    I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the introductory example of what he's writing about, including the character names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.


    I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong", "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. —-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to Robert Carnegie on Sat Mar 2 15:49:00 2024
    On 3/2/2024 1:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
    On 02/03/2024 05:54, Robert Woodward wrote:
    In article <urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
      Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
    I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy
    authors
    writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
    According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness >>>> III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series >>>> that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
    1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still >>>> appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
    historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).


    I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
    introductory example of what he's writing about, including the character >>> names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.


    I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
    "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".

    I ron.  :-)
    I'll have to watch out for this Nosredna.

    That's MISTER Nosredna!

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From WolfFan@21:1/5 to Tony Nance on Sun Mar 3 13:52:21 2024
    On Mar 3, 2024, Tony Nance wrote
    (in article <us265b$2ibu2$4@dont-email.me>):

    On 3/2/24 6:49 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 3/2/2024 1:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
    On 02/03/2024 05:54, Robert Woodward wrote:
    In article<urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
    Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
    I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy authors
    writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
    According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against Darkness
    III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series
    that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
    1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still
    appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for
    historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).

    I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the introductory example of what he's writing about, including the character
    names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.

    I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
    "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".

    I ron. :-)
    I'll have to watch out for this Nosredna.
    That's MISTER Nosredna!

    And definitely not RETSIM Nosredna - that would just be silly.

    Unless, of course, you’re in the matrix.

    Now which colour pill was I supposed to take, again?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to akwolffan@zoho.com on Sun Mar 3 19:17:19 2024
    In article <0001HW.2B94FE6503385678700000B2638F@news.supernews.com>,
    WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
    On Mar 3, 2024, Tony Nance wrote
    (in article <us265b$2ibu2$4@dont-email.me>):

    On 3/2/24 6:49 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 3/2/2024 1:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
    On 02/03/2024 05:54, Robert Woodward wrote:
    In article<urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
    Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
    I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy >> > > > > > authors
    writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building).
    According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against
    Darkness
    III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title
    anthology series
    that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in
    1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments
    are still
    appropriate (there has been more examples recently of
    backgrounds for
    historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).

    I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the
    introductory example of what he's writing about, including the
    character
    names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.

    I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong",
    "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".

    I ron. :-)
    I'll have to watch out for this Nosredna.
    That's MISTER Nosredna!

    And definitely not RETSIM Nosredna - that would just be silly.

    Unless, of course, you’re in the matrix.

    Now which colour pill was I supposed to take, again?


    G'nort is (perhaps was after all the reboots?) a caniform Green Lantern
    whom the Guardians keep around for laughs. (But who nonetheless has
    does a heroes turn from time to time).
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to WolfFan on Sun Mar 3 16:23:54 2024
    On 3/3/2024 10:52 AM, WolfFan wrote:
    On Mar 3, 2024, Tony Nance wrote
    (in article <us265b$2ibu2$4@dont-email.me>):

    On 3/2/24 6:49 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 3/2/2024 1:18 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
    On 02/03/2024 05:54, Robert Woodward wrote:
    In article<urtlbv$1fan1$1@dont-email.me>,
    Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 2/29/24 1:00 AM, Robert Woodward wrote:
    I believe that he wrote this because he was concerned about lazy >>>>>>> authors
    writing very bad heroic fantasy (employing ignorant world building). >>>>>>> According to the ISFDB, this first appeared in _Swords Against
    Darkness
    III_, published in 1978 (the only one of that 5 title anthology series >>>>>>> that I don't have), and the collection _Fantasy_ published by Tor in >>>>>>> 1981. I reread it recently and I think most of his arguments are still >>>>>>> appropriate (there has been more examples recently of backgrounds for >>>>>>> historical fantasy that weren't medieval Europe).

    I just re-read this[1], and I agree with you. I also really enjoy the >>>>>> introductory example of what he's writing about, including the
    character
    names Gnorts, Nialliv, Elamef, and Rehcel.

    I must confess that I hadn't noticed until now, the following: "Strong", >>>>> "Villain", "Female", and "Lecher".

    I ron. :-)
    I'll have to watch out for this Nosredna.
    That's MISTER Nosredna!

    And definitely not RETSIM Nosredna - that would just be silly.

    Unless, of course, you’re in the matrix.

    Now which colour pill was I supposed to take, again?

    Purple.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)