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  • (ReacTor) Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 11 14:08:18 2024
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Thu Apr 11 14:42:07 2024
    In article <uv8rvl$7h9$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    Sure, but there are millions of these, starting with the thousands of
    stories taking place on a watery venus or on a Mercury with only one face. >That's not even counting retrophrenology.

    There was a case for Venus being tide-locked as well, but I can only
    think of two authors who used that model: Stanley G. Weinbaum and
    Clark Ashton Smith.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Thu Apr 11 14:27:01 2024
    James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    Sure, but there are millions of these, starting with the thousands of
    stories taking place on a watery venus or on a Mercury with only one face. That's not even counting retrophrenology.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 11 08:47:19 2024
    On 11 Apr 2024 14:08:18 -0000, jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll)
    wrote:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    Wasn't there at least one novel based on the Steady-State Universe?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Thu Apr 11 16:10:58 2024
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    The Destruction of Planet V

    The region between Mars and Jupiter is filled with a myriad of small
    bodies. That is not controversial. The Belt’s origin, however, has
    been the subject of various competing theories over the years. In
    1972, M. W. Ovenden proposed that the Belt is the remnant of a
    large planet that exploded about sixteen million years ago.

    Overden draws upon centuries old theory:

    Physical sciences: Bode's Law and the Missing Planet

    Ovenden, M. W.

    Abstract

    EXACTLY two hundred years ago, Titius published a mnemonic for
    the mean distances of the planets from the Sun. His rule was

    [a_i is proportional to 2^(i - 2) . 3 + 2^2]

    where a_i is the major semi-axis of the orbit of the ith planet
    from the Sun. Titius's law represents the distances of the then
    known planets with an accuracy of a few per cent, provided that
    (i) for Mercury, we take i= -∞ instead of i=1 and (ii) the
    orbital i=5 is left vacant. The law made three valid predictions.
    Uranus (discovered by William Herschel in 1781) fits the orbital
    i=8. After the discovery of Uranus, Bode publicized the law,
    which became known as Bode's Law. The search for a planet for
    i=5 culminated in the discovery of the first asteroid, Ceres,
    in 1801. Recognition of a similar law for the satellite system
    of Saturn led to the discovery of Hyperion in 1848.

    (10.1038/239508a0)

    Ovenden himself presents his proposal's planet Phaeton problem in the
    summary of his paper:

    Two major problems remain. First, what physical caused the sudden
    dissipation of A? From the point of view of the dynamical arguments
    presented, it is probably true that A was always in the form of a
    ring. But while it may be difficult to "explode" a planet, it would
    seem even more difficult to dissipate a ring suddenly after it has
    been quiescent for 4.5 X 10^9 yr. Second, only ~0.1 M [sun cross]
    seems now to reside in the asteroid belt. What has appended to the
    other 89.9 M [sun cross]?

    (ibid)

    Here's another sfnal romp around planet Phaeton:

    Science fiction naturally reflects the interest in this supposedly-
    lost world, and continued to do so even as the hypothesis fell out
    of scientific favour. The idea that something as large as a planet
    could be destroyed both horrified and appealed to audiences, and -
    particularly in the mid twentieth century when the world-shattering
    potential of nuclear weaponry was recognised - suggested a deep
    suspicion of the scientific theories and processes that might
    release enough energy for the task.

    <https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/physics/research/astro/people/stanway/sciencefiction/cosmicstories/the_vermin_of/>

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to psperson@old.netcom.invalid on Thu Apr 11 16:55:05 2024
    In article <cf1g1jlvc4325bh5aqt8bn5akut0qsc96f@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On 11 Apr 2024 14:08:18 -0000, jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll)
    wrote:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!
    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    Wasn't there at least one novel based on the Steady-State Universe?

    Starchild, by Pohl and Williamson.

    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to petertrei@gmail.com on Thu Apr 11 16:56:33 2024
    In article <uv93d4$1pbbb$1@dont-email.me>,
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 4/11/2024 10:08 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    Niven seems to have done a lot of these - memory RNA, Bussard ramjets,
    etc.

    Another that stands out for me is any story that posits that humanity
    did not evolve on Earth. Our biochemistry and genetics are just too
    similar to all other Earth life for that.

    Points to Hogan for addressing all of the obvious issues with ET
    humans in Inherit the Stars.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to Michael F. Stemper on Thu Apr 11 18:39:28 2024
    In article <uv99i1$1quav$1@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/04/2024 11.55, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <cf1g1jlvc4325bh5aqt8bn5akut0qsc96f@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On 11 Apr 2024 14:08:18 -0000, jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll)
    wrote:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    Wasn't there at least one novel based on the Steady-State Universe?

    Starchild, by Pohl and Williamson.

    Also, _The Triumph of Time_, by James Blish.


    Interesting, in that the coda for "Cities In Flight" is distinctly non-steady-state.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mike Spencer@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Thu Apr 11 17:08:47 2024
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    There's a very nice short story based on The Origin of Consiousness
    and the Bicameral Mind.

    Anyone recall title & author which I forget?

    --
    Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to Michael F. Stemper on Thu Apr 11 20:13:29 2024
    In article <uv99qu$1quav$2@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/04/2024 09.08, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    Wasn't Vonnegut's "Ice Nine", as portrayed in _Cat's Cradle_, inspired
    by polywater?

    I don't know.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From WolfFan@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Thu Apr 11 16:14:23 2024
    On Apr 11, 2024, Scott Dorsey wrote
    (in article <uv8rvl$7h9$1@panix2.panix.com>):

    James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    Sure, but there are millions of these, starting with the thousands of
    stories taking place on a watery venus or on a Mercury with only one face. That's not even counting retrophrenology.
    --scott

    There are even watery Venus stories written in the full knowledge of Venus’ reality. How Venus _got_ to be watery is a Major Plot Point. Examples
    include:

    1. David Drake’s Surface Action and The Jungle: Venus was terraformed by humans. Things got out of hand. Homocidal honeysuckle and five-ton monitor lizards are among the more minor problems.

    2. S.M. Stirling’s The Sky People and In The Courts of the Crimson Kings
    had Venus (and Mars) rebuilt by the Lords of Creation, who have Plans for humanity. Humanity doesn’t know what the plans are. They include a watery Venus, a habitable Mars. ad other toys, such as a Dyson sphere and working instant interstellar travel. And humanity, all three humanities from Earth, Mars and Venus (and yes, all three are subspecies or species close enough to interbreed, that’s been clearly established) have yet to actually meet the Lords of Creation. It’s been a while and they haven’t been back to check
    on their experiments. It’s not at all clear that they still exist. I forsee problems.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to akwolffan@zoho.com on Thu Apr 11 20:44:13 2024
    In article <0001HW.2BC87CCC0051425470000497138F@news.supernews.com>,
    WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
    On Apr 11, 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote
    (in article <uv93d4$1pbbb$1@dont-email.me>):

    On 4/11/2024 10:08 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theor >> > ies/

    Niven seems to have done a lot of these - memory RNA, Bussard ramjets,
    etc.

    Another that stands out for me is any story that posits that humanity
    did not evolve on Earth. Our biochemistry and genetics are just too
    similar to all other Earth life for that.

    pt

    Niven did that one, too. Protector. Which was linked to Known Space and >directly contradicts the ‘mutated food yeast’ hypothesis from World of >Ptavvs, also linked to Known Space.


    It could be both Earth and the Protector home world were former Slaver
    food worlds.

    Kzin and Earth both were but I note that Kzin and humans have entirely different body plans. Why Protectors look so much like mammals is
    hard to explain unless Protector ancestors came from Earth in the
    first place. I blame the Outsiders.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From WolfFan@21:1/5 to Cryptoengineer on Thu Apr 11 16:17:16 2024
    On Apr 11, 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote
    (in article <uv93d4$1pbbb$1@dont-email.me>):

    On 4/11/2024 10:08 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theor
    ies/

    Niven seems to have done a lot of these - memory RNA, Bussard ramjets,
    etc.

    Another that stands out for me is any story that posits that humanity
    did not evolve on Earth. Our biochemistry and genetics are just too
    similar to all other Earth life for that.

    pt

    Niven did that one, too. Protector. Which was linked to Known Space and directly contradicts the ‘mutated food yeast’ hypothesis from World of Ptavvs, also linked to Known Space.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere on Thu Apr 11 20:44:35 2024
    In article <87frvrll0w.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere>,
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    There's a very nice short story based on The Origin of Consiousness
    and the Bicameral Mind.

    Anyone recall title & author which I forget?

    I think it is a Turtledove.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Lurndal@21:1/5 to ted@loft.tnolan.com on Thu Apr 11 20:57:44 2024
    ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) writes:
    In article <uv99i1$1quav$1@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/04/2024 11.55, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <cf1g1jlvc4325bh5aqt8bn5akut0qsc96f@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On 11 Apr 2024 14:08:18 -0000, jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll)
    wrote:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor >>>>> but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    Wasn't there at least one novel based on the Steady-State Universe?

    Starchild, by Pohl and Williamson.

    Also, _The Triumph of Time_, by James Blish.


    Interesting, in that the coda for "Cities In Flight" is distinctly >non-steady-state.

    Is it? To paraphrase another classic, a circle has no end....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere on Thu Apr 11 20:59:02 2024
    In article <87frvrll0w.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere>,
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    There's a very nice short story based on The Origin of Consiousness
    and the Bicameral Mind.

    Anyone recall title & author which I forget?


    Turtledove. "Bluff".

    He sort of revisited the idea in _Between The Rivers_
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 11 21:00:01 2024
    In article <l7r18mFebf0U1@mid.individual.net>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <87frvrll0w.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere>,
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    There's a very nice short story based on The Origin of Consiousness
    and the Bicameral Mind.

    Anyone recall title & author which I forget?


    Turtledove. "Bluff".

    He sort of revisited the idea in _Between The Rivers_
    --

    BTW, has TOOC been "disproved"? I'm not sure how you could do that.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Ikeda@21:1/5 to WolfFan on Thu Apr 11 21:12:43 2024
    WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in news:0001HW.2BC87C1F005119BE70000497138F@news.supernews.com:

    On Apr 11, 2024, Scott Dorsey wrote
    (in article <uv8rvl$7h9$1@panix2.panix.com>):

    James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of
    scientific favor but not before they've found their way into
    science fiction!

    Sure, but there are millions of these, starting with the
    thousands of stories taking place on a watery venus or on a
    Mercury with only one face. That's not even counting
    retrophrenology. --scott

    There are even watery Venus stories written in the full
    knowledge of Venus’ reality. How Venus _got_ to be watery is a
    Major Plot Point. Examples include:


    (snipped)

    I seem to recall Dorothy Heydt mentioning here that she was working
    on a book with watery Venus and Mars-with-canals.

    If I recall correctly, it was set in the far future and there had
    been a period of disorder and lost records between the time of the
    story and the time of the terraforming so no one in the story
    actually knew the details of how Mars and Venus became habitable,
    although they did know that they weren't always habitable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to mmikeda@erols.com on Thu Apr 11 22:41:35 2024
    In article <XnsB151AF16AF916mmikedacomcastnet@85.12.62.219>,
    Michael Ikeda <mmikeda@erols.com> wrote:
    WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote in >news:0001HW.2BC87C1F005119BE70000497138F@news.supernews.com:

    On Apr 11, 2024, Scott Dorsey wrote
    (in article <uv8rvl$7h9$1@panix2.panix.com>):

    James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of
    scientific favor but not before they've found their way into
    science fiction!

    Sure, but there are millions of these, starting with the
    thousands of stories taking place on a watery venus or on a
    Mercury with only one face. That's not even counting
    retrophrenology. --scott

    There are even watery Venus stories written in the full
    knowledge of Venus’ reality. How Venus _got_ to be watery is a
    Major Plot Point. Examples include:


    (snipped)

    I seem to recall Dorothy Heydt mentioning here that she was working
    on a book with watery Venus and Mars-with-canals.

    If I recall correctly, it was set in the far future and there had
    been a period of disorder and lost records between the time of the
    story and the time of the terraforming so no one in the story
    actually knew the details of how Mars and Venus became habitable,
    although they did know that they weren't always habitable.

    Al Sarrantonio's Masters of Mars has a set up like that, I think.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Robert Woodward@21:1/5 to ted@loft.tnolan.com on Thu Apr 11 22:02:17 2024
    In article <l7r1ahFebf0U2@mid.individual.net>,
    ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:

    In article <l7r18mFebf0U1@mid.individual.net>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <87frvrll0w.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere>,
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theor
    ies/

    There's a very nice short story based on The Origin of Consiousness
    and the Bicameral Mind.

    Anyone recall title & author which I forget?


    Turtledove. "Bluff".

    He sort of revisited the idea in _Between The Rivers_
    --

    BTW, has TOOC been "disproved"? I'm not sure how you could do that.

    Assuming I remember the basic idea correctly, I can't see how it can be demonstrated (even with profoundly unethical experiments).

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. ‹-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

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  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to tednolan on Fri Apr 12 08:26:26 2024
    On 11 Apr 2024 21:00:01 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
    <tednolan>) wrote:

    In article <l7r18mFebf0U1@mid.individual.net>,
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <87frvrll0w.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere>,
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor >>>> but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    There's a very nice short story based on The Origin of Consiousness
    and the Bicameral Mind.

    Anyone recall title & author which I forget?


    Turtledove. "Bluff".

    He sort of revisited the idea in _Between The Rivers_
    --

    BTW, has TOOC been "disproved"? I'm not sure how you could do that.

    Until we can /define/ "consciousness" in a way that allows us to
    detect it from the outside (as it were), neither proof nor disprove
    are possible.

    Whether such a definition would make it possible is a different issue.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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  • From Steve Coltrin@21:1/5 to Mike Spencer on Fri Apr 12 17:59:48 2024
    begin fnord
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

    There's a very nice short story based on The Origin of Consiousness
    and the Bicameral Mind.

    Not what you're thinking of (because not short story) but Stephenson's
    _The Big U_ mentions bicameralism; one of the characters believes in it
    but the narrative does not appear to take a stand. If I recall it turns
    up in _Snow Crash_ as well.

    --
    Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org
    "A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
    to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
    - Associated Press

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  • From John Savard@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 13 18:24:42 2024
    On 11 Apr 2024 14:08:18 -0000, jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll)
    wrote:

    Five SF Novels Inspired by Disproven Scientific Theories

    Plenty of exciting hypotheses eventually fall out of scientific favor
    but not before they've found their way into science fiction!

    https://reactormag.com/five-sf-novels-inspired-by-disproven-scientific-theories/

    Polywater was even used in a Star Trek episode, "The Naked Time".

    I believe that Pierre Boulle's "Monkey Planet" was similar enough to
    the infamous series of movies based on it (the first one, of course,
    was worthwhile, if only it had been left to stand on its own), Planet
    of the Apes, that it was also based on the discredited theory that
    white people were descended from chimpanzees, East Asians were
    descended from orangutans, and black people were descended from
    gorillas, as advocated for in the works of Carleton S. Coon.

    One side of Mercury always facing the Sun, Venus being, if not a
    tropical paradise, a livable hot swamp world, and Mars having a
    breathable atmosphere... stories too many to count were based on
    these, and it was reasonable to exclude them, as his column would have
    been far less interesting if it included such obvious cases.

    John Savard

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  • From John Savard@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 13 19:05:40 2024
    This doesn't qualify...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jdBiz_vwe0

    a YouTube video telling us silly people who believe in other planets
    and the stars being other suns that the Bible clearly states we live
    on a flat Earth with the dome of the firmament over it, and therefore
    that must be the truth, and the globe Earth must be a lie.

    If somebody in 1960 predicted advanced cheap computers making the
    Internet possible, and that someone would use it in 2024 to promulgate
    videos like this, would anyone have believed a story based on such a far-fetched premise?

    John Savard

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  • From Don@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 14 02:01:39 2024
    Francis Bacon succeeded in creating characters in his dramas -
    stories within stories - and we need to know at least a bit
    about them in order to be knowledgeable of the Myths that
    constitute the history of our culture and shine light on our
    present predicaments.

    The famous Iago, from the play "Othello, The Moor Of Venice" is
    one such character.

    IRISH PROVERB: "If two neighbors are fighting in the morning, it
    means that an Englishman spent the night with one of them"

    IMHO-this is a play, consciously and purposefully about the
    masterful duplicity and the staggering success of English
    diplomacy, characterized by Iago: the ability to create war.
    It also carries forward the Shakespearean theme of hatred of
    women, dare I make so bold. Desdemona, like sweet Ophelia,
    fares rather poorly at the hands of her female friends and
    (male) lover(s). Iago's wife seems a bit of a Lady Macbeth.
    The horrible death of Desdemona goes on forever. These are my
    preliminary impressions - subject to revision!

    (excerpt)

    <https://thehiddenlifeisbest.com/post/to-othello/home>



    "What's Going On?"
    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnFy1luxL0A>

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

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