• Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=93Top_10_Space_Opera?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_Books_and_Se

    From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to michael.stemper@gmail.com on Sun Jun 2 08:55:13 2024
    On Sat, 1 Jun 2024 14:58:38 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 31/05/2024 16.28, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <v3dc4d$2cmed$1@dont-email.me>,
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    “Top 10 Space Opera Books and Series”

    https://discoverscifi.com/the-top-10-space-opera-books-and-series-of-all-time/

    10. Blood on the Stars by Jay Allan - never heard of it
    9. Hyperion by Dan Simmons - yes
    8. Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds - I have never read the series
    7. Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold - freaking awesome series
    6. The Culture Series by Iain M. Banks - I have never read the series
    5. The Commonwealth Saga by Peter F. Hamilton - I have never read the series
    4. Triplanetary by E.E. "Doc" Smith - this is on my reread list
    3. Old Man's War by John Scalzi - yes
    2. The Expanse Series by James S.A. Corey - awesome series
    1A. The Foundation Series by Issac Asimov - yes
    1B. Honor Harrington Saga by David Weber - yes

    David Weber's Dahak series needs to be a part of this list.

    I would swap The Foundation Series and The Vorkosigan series.

    I would say that Foundation is *not* Space Opera. In fact it makes some
    fun of Space Opera.

    _Triplanetary_ definitely is, but how can you be aware of Doc Smith and
    leave a) the Lensman series proper & b) the Skylark series off of a
    Space Opera list?

    100% agreed. I'm not too convinced that _Hyperion_ (or the four-novel series >that it kicks off) or the Culture qualify as Space Opera, either. I briefly >perused the page and some of its links, but was unable to find what they
    were using as a definition of "space opera".

    I think I've mostly regarded "space opera" as a formation based on
    "horse opera". FWIW. YMMV.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to psperson@old.netcom.invalid on Sun Jun 2 16:20:35 2024
    In article <fd5p5jdn4fdj9p5k82ojd3bcrpdt0fu41i@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 1 Jun 2024 14:58:38 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper" ><michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 31/05/2024 16.28, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <v3dc4d$2cmed$1@dont-email.me>,
    Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    “Top 10 Space Opera Books and Series”

    https://discoverscifi.com/the-top-10-space-opera-books-and-series-of-all-time/ >>>>
    10. Blood on the Stars by Jay Allan - never heard of it
    9. Hyperion by Dan Simmons - yes
    8. Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds - I have never read the series >>>> 7. Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold - freaking awesome series
    6. The Culture Series by Iain M. Banks - I have never read the series
    5. The Commonwealth Saga by Peter F. Hamilton - I have never read the series
    4. Triplanetary by E.E. "Doc" Smith - this is on my reread list
    3. Old Man's War by John Scalzi - yes
    2. The Expanse Series by James S.A. Corey - awesome series
    1A. The Foundation Series by Issac Asimov - yes
    1B. Honor Harrington Saga by David Weber - yes

    David Weber's Dahak series needs to be a part of this list.

    I would swap The Foundation Series and The Vorkosigan series.

    I would say that Foundation is *not* Space Opera. In fact it makes some >>> fun of Space Opera.

    _Triplanetary_ definitely is, but how can you be aware of Doc Smith and
    leave a) the Lensman series proper & b) the Skylark series off of a
    Space Opera list?

    100% agreed. I'm not too convinced that _Hyperion_ (or the four-novel series >>that it kicks off) or the Culture qualify as Space Opera, either. I briefly >>perused the page and some of its links, but was unable to find what they >>were using as a definition of "space opera".

    I think I've mostly regarded "space opera" as a formation based on
    "horse opera". FWIW. YMMV.

    Well, there is Jack Vance, of course:

    https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?31427
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to michael.stemper@gmail.com on Mon Jun 3 08:30:23 2024
    On Mon, 3 Jun 2024 08:02:34 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 02/06/2024 10.55, Paul S Person wrote:
    <snippo>

    I think I've mostly regarded "space opera" as a formation based on
    "horse opera". FWIW. YMMV.

    I have no doubt about that being the etymology of the term. But, it's hardly >a definition. And I was wondering specifically about the definition used by >the folks setting up the poll; the definition that viewed Hyperion and >Foundation as "space opera".

    OK, here's what <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_opera#:~:text=A%20horse%20opera%2C%20hoss%20opera%2C%20oat%20opera%20or,used%20variously%20to%20convey%20either%20disparagement%20or%20affection>
    has to say:

    "A horse opera, hoss opera, oat opera or oater is a Western film or
    television series that is clichéd or formulaic, in the manner of a
    (later) soap opera or space opera.

    "The term, which was originally coined by silent film-era Western star
    William S. Hart, is used variously to convey either disparagement or
    affection. The term "horse opera" is quite loosely defined; it does
    not specify a distinct sub-genre of the Western (as "space opera" does
    with regard to the science fiction genre)."

    And that's the entire content. So, a space opera is to a horse opera
    as science fiction is to westerns.

    And the definition of a "horse opera" is that it is "clichéd or
    formulaic". Sounds about right for SF as well.

    Huh. I was expecting to hear about the Fat Lady singing.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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