• Gaming Prophecy?

    From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 27 22:11:07 2024
    We touched briefly on Cugel today, and this sequence was on my mind:


    Cugel finally tired of the conversation and rose to his
    feet, at which the shell-creatures once more gave him their
    attention. "Must you fare forth so soon? Just when we were
    about to inquire the reason for your presence; passers-by
    are few along Great Sandy Beach, and you seem a man who has
    journeyed far."

    "This is correct," said Cugel, "and I must journey yet
    farther. Notice the sun: it starts down the western curve,
    and tonight I wish to house myself at Cil."

    One of the shell-creatures lifted up its arms and displayed
    a fine garment it had woven from water-threads. "This garment
    we offer as a gift. You seem a sensitive man and so may
    require protection from wind and cold." It tossed the garment
    to Cugel. He examined it, marveling at the suppleness of
    the cloth and its lucent shimmer. "I thank you indeed,"
    said Cugel. "This is generosity beyond my expectation." He
    wrapped himself in the garment, but at once it reverted to
    water and Cugel was drenched. The four in the shells shouted
    loud in mischievous glee, and as Cugel stepped wrathfully
    forward, snapped their shells shut.

    Cugel kicked the shell of the creature which had tossed him
    the garment, bruising his foot and exacerbating his rage.
    He seized a heavy rock, dashed it down upon the shell,
    crushing it. Snatching forth the squealing creature, Cugel
    hurled it far up the beach, where it lay staring at him,
    head and small arms joined to pale entrails. In a faint
    voice it asked, "Why did you treat me so? For a prank you
    have taken my life from me, and I have no other."

    "And thereby you will be prevented from further pranks,"
    declared Cugel. "Notice, you have drenched me to the skin!"

    "It was merely an act of mischief; a small matter surely."
    The shell-creature spoke in a fading voice. "We of the rocks
    know little magic, yet I am given the power to curse, and
    this I now pronounce: may you lose your heart's-desire,
    whatever its nature; you shall be bereft before a single
    day is gone."

    "Another curse?" Cugel shook his head in displeasure. "Two
    curses already I have voided this day; am I now inflicted
    with another?"

    "This curse you shall not void," whispered the shell-creature.
    "I make it the final act of my life."

    "Malice is a quality to be deplored," said Cugel fretfully.
    "I doubt the efficacy of your curse; nevertheless, you would
    be well-advised to clear the air of its odium and so regain
    my good opinion."

    But the shell-creature said no more. Presently it collapsed
    into a cloudy slime which was absorbed into the sand.

    Cugel set off down the beach, considering how best to avert
    the consequences of the shell-creature's curse. "One must
    use his wits in dealing with maledictions," Cugel said for
    the second time. "Am I known as Cugel the Clever for nothing?"
    No stratagem came to mind, and he proceeded along the beach
    pondering the matter in all its aspects.

    The headland to the east grew distinct. Cugel saw it to be
    cloaked in tall dark trees, through which appeared glimpses
    of white buildings. Slaye showed himself once more, running
    back and forth across the beach like one departed of his
    senses. He approached Cugel and fell on his knees. "The
    amulet, I beg of you! It belongs to the House of Slaye; it
    conferred upon us the rule of Cil! Give it to me and I will
    fulfill your heart's-desire!"

    Cugel stopped short. Here was a pretty paradox! If he
    surrendered the amulet, Slaye evidently would betray him,
    or at the very least fail to make good his promise --
    assuming the potency of the curse. On the other hand, if
    Cugel retained the amulet, he would lose his heart's-desire
    to no less a degree -- assuming the potency of the curse
    -- but the amulet would yet be his.

    Slaye misinterpreted the hesitation as a sign of pliancy.
    "I will make you grandee of the realm!" he cried in a fervent
    voice. "You shall have a barge of carved ivory, two hundred
    maidens shall serve your wants; your enemies shall be clamped
    into a rotating cauldron -- only give me the amulet!"

    "The amulet confers so much power?" inquired Cugel. "It is
    possible to achieve all this?"

    "Indeed, indeed!" cried Slaye, "when one can read the runes!"

    "Well then," said Cugel, "what is their import?"

    Slaye gazed at him in woeful injury. "That I can not say;
    I must have the amulet!"

    Cugel flourished his hand in a contemptuous gesture. "You
    refuse to gratify my curiosity; in my turn I denounce your
    arrogant ambitions!"

    Slaye turned to look toward the headland, where white walls
    gleamed among the trees. "I understand all. You intend to
    rule Cil in your own right!"

    There were less desirable prospects, thought Cugel, and
    Firx, appreciating something of this, performed a small
    monitory constriction. Regretfully Cugel put aside the
    scheme; nevertheless, it suggested a means to nullify the
    shell-creature's curse. "If I am to be deprived of my
    heart's-desire," Cugel told himself, "I would be wise to
    fix upon a new goal, a fervent new enthusiasm, for at least
    the space of a day. I shall therefore aspire to the rule
    of Cil, which now becomes my heart's-desire." So as not to
    arouse the vigilance of Firx, he said aloud, "I intend to
    use this amulet to achieve highly important ends. Among
    them may well be the lordship of Cil, to which I believe I
    am entitled by virtue of my amulet."

    Slaye gave a wild sardonic laugh. "First you must convince
    Derwe Coreme of your authority. She is of the House of
    Domber, gloomy and fitful; she looks little more than a
    girl, but she manifests the brooding carelessness of a
    forest grue. Beware of Derwe Coreme; she will order you and
    my amulet plunged into the ocean's deep!"

    "If you fear to this extent," said Cugel with asperity,
    "instruct me in the use of the amulet, and I will prevent
    that calamity."

    But Slaye mulishly shook his head. "The deficiencies of
    Derwe Coreme are known; why exchange them for the outlandish
    excesses of a vagabond?"

    For his outspokenness Slaye received a buffet which sent
    him staggering. Cugel then proceeded along the shore. The
    sun wallowed low upon the sea; he hastened his steps, anxious
    to find shelter before dark.

    He came at last to the end of the beach. The headland loomed
    above, with the tall dark trees standing still higher. A
    balustrade surrounding the gardens showed intermittently
    through the foliage; somewhat below, a colonnaded rotunda
    overlooked the ocean to the south. Grandeur indeed! thought
    Cugel, and he examined the amulet with a new attentiveness.
    His temporary heart's-desire, sovereignty over Cil, had
    become no longer factitious. And Cugel wondered if he should
    not fix upon a new heart's-desire -- an aspiration to master
    the lore of animal husbandry, for instance, or a compelling
    urge to excel at acrobatic feats ... Reluctantly Cugel
    dismissed the scheme. In any event, the cogency of the
    shell-creature's curse was not yet certain.


    I know that Offut & Lyon's "War Of The Wizards" trilogy has a good
    example (not to mention they are really fun books!) and I understand
    there was a run on "Thor" where Odin tried a strategy of making all
    the Ragnarok prophecies come literally true in a survivable way.

    What are some other good examples of characters trying (succesfully or no)
    to game prophecy?
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Don@21:1/5 to Ted Nolan on Wed Aug 28 14:04:59 2024
    Ted Nolan wrote:
    We touched briefly on Cugel today, and this sequence was on my mind:

    <snip excerpt of excellent literary science fiction>

    I know that Offut & Lyon's "War Of The Wizards" trilogy has a good
    example (not to mention they are really fun books!) and I understand
    there was a run on "Thor" where Odin tried a strategy of making all
    the Ragnarok prophecies come literally true in a survivable way.

    What are some other good examples of characters trying (succesfully or no)
    to game prophecy?

    This is a tough task Ted (for me at least). A hunch tells me somewhere
    in the vast PR epic someone glimpses the future and tries to change it.
    Pucky's provocative potential probably makes him the most entertaining potential gamester.

    Until more neurons fire, _Minority Report_ and "Happy Ending" are the
    only stories to suggest themselves. But, even these two, under closer inspection, may not qualify.

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to tnusenet17@gmail.com on Sat Aug 31 01:48:09 2024
    In article <vat82j$k24v$1@dont-email.me>,
    Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 8/27/24 6:11 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    We touched briefly on Cugel today, and this sequence was on my mind:


    <snip transcription of Cugel doing Cugel things> >

    I know that Offut & Lyon's "War Of The Wizards" trilogy has a good
    example (not to mention they are really fun books!) and I understand
    there was a run on "Thor" where Odin tried a strategy of making all
    the Ragnarok prophecies come literally true in a survivable way.

    What are some other good examples of characters trying (succesfully or no) >> to game prophecy?

    When I read this post three nights ago:
    a) I knew I would be very busy for a few days[1]
    and
    b) I knew there were plenty of examples that would come to mind

    While a) was sadly correct, b) was sadly incorrect.

    However, after staring at my bookshelves and also getting some help from
    the internet, I have come up with a few (two successful, two not):

    [SPOILER ALERT - titles are ROT13'd and concatenated]

    Two successful ones:
    1a) In evbeqna'fcreplwnpxfbafntn, the protagonist is told "And you shall
    fail to save what matters most, in the end." It turns out that he does
    indeed fail to save his own mother, but that's because he gives her the >ability to save herself.


    Have not read these, though I saw most of the movie, which seemed
    mediocre.

    1b) In another part of the same series, a character receives a prophecy
    from an oracle telling her she will "fail without friends, and fly home >alone”. Sure enough, she fails because it is the protagonist who
    captures the MacGuffin. However, the protagonist immediately gives her
    the MacGuffin, and then buys her a plane ticket so she can fly back to
    their camp alone (because if protagonist and sidekick fly back with her, >they’ll lose their earthly protection and probably be killed).

    (Spoilers)

    This kind of reminds me of the Harry Dresden propechy that as I recall
    is dual forked 1) You will die doing the right thing & 2) You will die
    alone.

    His (dead) dad later tells him that everybody dies alone: It's a
    doorway sized for one (or words to that effect), and as for the
    first I believe it turned out to be true, but it was somewhat akin
    to being turned into a newt.



    Two unsuccessful ones:
    2a) In guruneelcbggrefrevrf, the Big Bad Guy tries to kill his
    prophesied nemesis, not realizing that the nemesis didn't actually
    didn't become his nemesis until the moment Big Bad tried to kill him.


    Interestingly iirc that one, the prophecy could also have applied to
    Arivyyr

    2b) In qvnanjlaarjbarf’ pnfgyrvagurnve sybjrevaguravtug'f father locked
    her up since her birth, after hearing a prophecy that the first man she
    sees will become her husband. If he hadn't done that, she would have
    never met the main protagonist ...

    Haven't read that one either, but the description puts me in the mind of Oedipus.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to tednolan on Sat Aug 31 08:59:46 2024
    On 31 Aug 2024 01:48:09 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
    <tednolan>) wrote:

    In article <vat82j$k24v$1@dont-email.me>,
    Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 8/27/24 6:11 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    We touched briefly on Cugel today, and this sequence was on my mind:


    <snip transcription of Cugel doing Cugel things> >

    I know that Offut & Lyon's "War Of The Wizards" trilogy has a good
    example (not to mention they are really fun books!) and I understand
    there was a run on "Thor" where Odin tried a strategy of making all
    the Ragnarok prophecies come literally true in a survivable way.

    What are some other good examples of characters trying (succesfully or no) >>> to game prophecy?

    When I read this post three nights ago:

    <snippo>

    2a) In guruneelcbggrefrevrf, the Big Bad Guy tries to kill his
    prophesied nemesis, not realizing that the nemesis didn't actually
    didn't become his nemesis until the moment Big Bad tried to kill him.


    Interestingly iirc that one, the prophecy could also have applied to
    Arivyyr

    I wondered through the next book or so if that would turn out to be
    the case. It was not to be, although he did show considerable courage
    in the final showdown.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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