• (ReacTor) Five Thinly Veiled Versions of Rome in SF

    From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 11 17:10:44 2024
    Five Thinly Veiled Versions of Rome in SF

    For some science fiction authors, all roads really do lead to Rome.

    https://reactormag.com/five-thinly-veiled-versions-of-rome-in-sf/
    --
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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to wthyde1953@gmail.com on Mon Nov 11 20:12:44 2024
    In article <vgtnq0$15a52$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Thinly Veiled Versions of Rome in SF

    For some science fiction authors, all roads really do lead to Rome.

    https://reactormag.com/five-thinly-veiled-versions-of-rome-in-sf/

    Not just in science fiction. Gondor and Arnor are clearly drawn in
    large part from the Eastern and Western Roman Empire.

    And Harry Turtledove wrote at least two Byzantine-inspired series that I
    can think of.

    I can't at the moment think of where Asimov used Thucydides. Perhaps he
    just needed him for the rhyme.

    Then there's the explicit use of Rome in DeCamp's "Lest Darkness Fall".
    It was amusing to read Gibbon and think of these Goths as pictured in >DeCamp's novel. Entirely not to my surprise, LSDC knew his stuff.

    It is remarkable how many of these feature late Rome, and not the Rome
    of the Republic.

    Well, Alan Yates did write an sf novel "Coriolanus, the Chariot", but
    IIRC that had nothing to do with Rome.


    William Hyde

    The Turtledove was Videssos. Of course he did an actual Byzantine series
    as well.

    Not to mention van Vogt's "Empire Of the Atom" stories and the current
    Glass Immortals series by Brian McClellan.

    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to wthyde1953@gmail.com on Tue Nov 12 04:58:49 2024
    In article <vgumdi$1eds6$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <vgtnq0$15a52$1@dont-email.me>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Thinly Veiled Versions of Rome in SF

    For some science fiction authors, all roads really do lead to Rome.

    https://reactormag.com/five-thinly-veiled-versions-of-rome-in-sf/

    Not just in science fiction. Gondor and Arnor are clearly drawn in
    large part from the Eastern and Western Roman Empire.

    And Harry Turtledove wrote at least two Byzantine-inspired series that I >>> can think of.

    I can't at the moment think of where Asimov used Thucydides. Perhaps he >>> just needed him for the rhyme.

    Then there's the explicit use of Rome in DeCamp's "Lest Darkness Fall".
    It was amusing to read Gibbon and think of these Goths as pictured in
    DeCamp's novel. Entirely not to my surprise, LSDC knew his stuff.

    It is remarkable how many of these feature late Rome, and not the Rome
    of the Republic.

    Well, Alan Yates did write an sf novel "Coriolanus, the Chariot", but
    IIRC that had nothing to do with Rome.


    William Hyde

    The Turtledove was Videssos.

    But Videssos is a one-to-one mapping of Byzantium.

    William Hyde

    Yes. I was identifying one of Turtledove's "two Byzantine-inspired series".
    (I didn't bother mentioning the one with "Byzantium" in the actual series title).
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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  • From Jay E. Morris@21:1/5 to Lynn McGuire on Tue Nov 12 08:30:08 2024
    On 11/11/2024 11:37 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 11/11/2024 11:10 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Thinly Veiled Versions of Rome in SF

    For some science fiction authors, all roads really do lead to Rome.

    https://reactormag.com/five-thinly-veiled-versions-of-rome-in-sf/

    Wow !  Four for five for me.  The Asimov, the Anderson, the Drake, and
    the Thomas.

    Lynn




    I think the same, although the Thomas is very vague.

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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to wthyde1953@gmail.com on Mon Nov 18 01:54:21 2024
    On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 15:00:48 -0500, William Hyde
    <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Thinly Veiled Versions of Rome in SF

    For some science fiction authors, all roads really do lead to Rome.

    https://reactormag.com/five-thinly-veiled-versions-of-rome-in-sf/

    Not just in science fiction. Gondor and Arnor are clearly drawn in
    large part from the Eastern and Western Roman Empire.

    Yup

    And Harry Turtledove wrote at least two Byzantine-inspired series that I
    can think of.

    Yes but those were actually placed in the Byzantine empire not some alt-Byzantium.

    I can't at the moment think of where Asimov used Thucydides. Perhaps he
    just needed him for the rhyme.

    Which work are you referring to? Foundation, Foundation and Empire and
    Second Foundation all appropriated a lot of material from Gibbon -
    especially in the sections about Bel Riose in Foundation and Empire.

    (I read Gibbon AFTER I had read F+E before I had read about Belisarius
    so reading his story AFTER I had read about Bel Riose was a 'deja vu
    all over again' moment for me)

    It is remarkable how many of these feature late Rome, and not the Rome
    of the Republic.

    Not really all that surprising - the Foundation novels were primarily
    about the decline of one empire and the rise of a new one. And that
    series was extremely influential for later authors.

    And yes I understand that you're not just talking about Asimov and
    Foundation but that series was definitely influential for later
    writers.

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  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to lcraver@home.ca on Mon Nov 18 13:28:37 2024
    In article <m73mjjhgpv76c53bq1jcft0n0q64v1b73f@4ax.com>,
    The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Nov 2024 15:00:48 -0500, William Hyde
    <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Thinly Veiled Versions of Rome in SF

    For some science fiction authors, all roads really do lead to Rome.

    https://reactormag.com/five-thinly-veiled-versions-of-rome-in-sf/

    Not just in science fiction. Gondor and Arnor are clearly drawn in
    large part from the Eastern and Western Roman Empire.

    Yup

    And Harry Turtledove wrote at least two Byzantine-inspired series that I >>can think of.

    Yes but those were actually placed in the Byzantine empire not some >alt-Byzantium.

    I can't at the moment think of where Asimov used Thucydides. Perhaps he >>just needed him for the rhyme.

    Which work are you referring to? Foundation, Foundation and Empire and
    Second Foundation all appropriated a lot of material from Gibbon -
    especially in the sections about Bel Riose in Foundation and Empire.


    That was referring to Asimov's famous poem "The Foundation of SF Success"
    which got deleted somewhere in the thread:

    So success is not a mystery,
    just brush up on your history,
    and borrow day by day.

    Take the Empire that was Roman
    and you'll find it is at home in
    all the starry Milky Way.
    With a drive that's hyperspatial,
    through the parsecs you will race,
    you'll find that plotting is a breeze,
    With a tiny bit of cribbin'
    from the works of Edward Gibbon
    and that Greek, Thycydides.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

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