• WAR AND PEACE by Tolstoy

    From Don@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 30 21:55:03 2025
    It's not really Science Fiction, but it's been mentioned lately.

    The parts pertaining to peaceful romance appeal to me much more than
    the warfare. Ironically, Tolstoy's tome helps me cope with armed
    conflict.
    Tolstoy's the tonic to sort out the scat show called war. His Rus
    realist savoir-faire offers welcome relief from the relentlessly riven
    mass mind's culture of chaotic current events:

    A Russian is self-assured just because he knows nothing
    and does not want to know anything, since he does not
    believe that anything can be known.

    As an aside, did the Tiffany Network plagiarize Tolstoy in its
    previously popular prisoner of war TV show?
    An interesting Tolstoy translation tic: the absent antecedent,
    also missing elsewhere, when Russian is translated into English. For
    instance, the antecedent's apparently an apparition when the pronoun
    "ours" appears in this translated excerpt:

    "We must let him see Amelie, she's exquisite!" said
    one of "ours," kissing his finger tips.

    Tolstoy masterfully shares his characters' inner life. This technique
    reveals characters as all too human; enthralled to human virtue and
    vice.
    The reader receives omniscience; a granular view of humanity's
    triumphs and travails, without a protagonist to lead the reader around
    by the nose.
    When Russian soldier Andrey Grigoriev killed Ukrainian soldier
    Dmytro Maslovsky in hand-to-hand combat, the latter reportedly said:
    "Let me say goodbye to the sky." A similar situation occurs in WAR AND
    PEACE:

    "What's this? Am I falling? My legs are giving way," thought
    he, and fell on his back. He opened his eyes, hoping to see
    how the struggle of the Frenchmen with the gunners ended,
    whether the red-haired gunner had been killed or not and
    whether the cannon had been captured or saved. But he saw
    nothing. Above him there was now nothing but the sky-the
    lofty sky, not clear yet still immeasurably lofty, with gray
    clouds gliding slowly across it. "How quiet, peaceful, and
    solemn; not at all as I ran," thought Prince Andrew-"not as
    we ran, shouting and fighting, not at all as the gunner and
    the Frenchman with frightened and angry faces struggled for
    the mop: how differently do those clouds glide across that
    lofty infinite sky! How was it I did not see that lofty sky
    before? And how happy I am to have found it at last! Yes!
    All is vanity, all falsehood, except that infinite sky.
    There is nothing, nothing, but that. But even it does not
    exist, there is nothing but quiet and peace. Thank God!..."

    Some see events as tightly controlled by powerful Great Men: Cameron,
    May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak, Starmer, Obama, Trump, Biden, Putin, and
    Zelensky. Tolstoy views Great Men as powerless:

    The actions of Napoleon and Alexander, on whose words the
    event seemed to hang, were as little voluntary as the
    actions of any soldier who was drawn into the campaign by
    lot or by conscription. This could not be otherwise, for in
    order that the will of Napoleon and Alexander (on whom the
    event seemed to depend) should be carried out, the
    concurrence of innumerable circumstances was needed without
    any one of which the event could not have taken place. It was
    necessary that millions of men in whose hands lay the real
    power-the soldiers who fired, or transported provisions and
    guns-should consent to carry out the will of these weak
    individuals, and should have been induced to do so by an
    infinite number of diverse and complex causes. ...

    In historic events the so-called great men are labels giving
    names to events, and like labels they have but the smallest
    connection with the event itself.

    Every act of theirs, which appears to them an act of their
    own will, is in an historical sense involuntary and is
    related to the whole course of history and predestined
    from eternity. ...

    The luring of Napoleon into the depths of the country was
    not the result of any plan, for no one believed it to be
    possible; it resulted from a most complex interplay of
    intrigues, aims, and wishes among those who took part in
    the war and had no perception whatever of the inevitable,
    or of the one way of saving Russia. Everything came about
    fortuitously.

    A few football fans fantasize about war being merely another football
    game. Tolstoy thinks the consequences are greater:

    An army gains a victory, and at once the rights of the
    conquering nation have increased to the detriment of the
    defeated. An army has suffered defeat, and at once a people
    loses its rights in proportion to the severity of the reverse,
    and if its army suffers a complete defeat the nation is quite
    subjugated.

    Witness how enlightened Globalism spontaneously sparked a woke wake
    pyre.
    The Russian Orthodox Church (a close cousin to the Catholic Church)
    plays a prominent enough role in the novel for Napoleon to remark, "That Asiatic city of the innumerable churches, holy Moscow!"
    The Mandylion flag, emblazened with IC XC NIKA, is reportedly the
    most popular battle flag in the militias of the Donetsk and Luhansk
    People's Republics. In the end, only God Almighty determines the outcome
    of war.
    For people who love long stories - WAR AND PEACE is a very long
    story. Tolstoy made a realist out of me and his novel is recommended.

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

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  • From BCFD 36@21:1/5 to Don on Thu Jan 30 16:57:08 2025
    On 1/30/25 13:51, Don wrote:
    It's not really Science Fiction, but it's been mentioned lately.

    The parts pertaining to peaceful romance appeal to me much more than

    [review of War and Peace deleted]


    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God. tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.


    It was very long.

    I preferred "Love and Death". My favorite lines:
    "You are the greatest lover I've ever had."

    "I practice a lot when I'm alone"
    --
    ----------------

    Dave Scruggs
    Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
    Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
    Board of Directors - Boulder Creek Fire Protection District (What was I thinking?)

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  • From Titus G@21:1/5 to Don on Fri Jan 31 15:34:09 2025
    On 31/01/25 10:55, Don wrote:
    It's not really Science Fiction, but it's been mentioned lately.

    The parts pertaining to peaceful romance appeal to me much more than
    the warfare. Ironically, Tolstoy's tome helps me cope with armed
    conflict.
    Tolstoy's the tonic to sort out the scat show called war. His Rus
    realist savoir-faire offers welcome relief from the relentlessly riven
    mass mind's culture of chaotic current events:

    A Russian is self-assured just because he knows nothing
    and does not want to know anything, since he does not
    believe that anything can be known.

    As an aside, did the Tiffany Network plagiarize Tolstoy in its
    previously popular prisoner of war TV show?
    An interesting Tolstoy translation tic: the absent antecedent,
    also missing elsewhere, when Russian is translated into English. For instance, the antecedent's apparently an apparition when the pronoun
    "ours" appears in this translated excerpt:

    "We must let him see Amelie, she's exquisite!" said
    one of "ours," kissing his finger tips.

    Tolstoy masterfully shares his characters' inner life. This technique
    reveals characters as all too human; enthralled to human virtue and
    vice.
    The reader receives omniscience; a granular view of humanity's
    triumphs and travails, without a protagonist to lead the reader around
    by the nose.
    When Russian soldier Andrey Grigoriev killed Ukrainian soldier
    Dmytro Maslovsky in hand-to-hand combat, the latter reportedly said:
    "Let me say goodbye to the sky." A similar situation occurs in WAR AND
    PEACE:

    "What's this? Am I falling? My legs are giving way," thought
    he, and fell on his back. He opened his eyes, hoping to see
    how the struggle of the Frenchmen with the gunners ended,
    whether the red-haired gunner had been killed or not and
    whether the cannon had been captured or saved. But he saw
    nothing. Above him there was now nothing but the sky-the
    lofty sky, not clear yet still immeasurably lofty, with gray
    clouds gliding slowly across it. "How quiet, peaceful, and
    solemn; not at all as I ran," thought Prince Andrew-"not as
    we ran, shouting and fighting, not at all as the gunner and
    the Frenchman with frightened and angry faces struggled for
    the mop: how differently do those clouds glide across that
    lofty infinite sky! How was it I did not see that lofty sky
    before? And how happy I am to have found it at last! Yes!
    All is vanity, all falsehood, except that infinite sky.
    There is nothing, nothing, but that. But even it does not
    exist, there is nothing but quiet and peace. Thank God!..."

    Some see events as tightly controlled by powerful Great Men: Cameron,
    May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak, Starmer, Obama, Trump, Biden, Putin, and Zelensky. Tolstoy views Great Men as powerless:

    The actions of Napoleon and Alexander, on whose words the
    event seemed to hang, were as little voluntary as the
    actions of any soldier who was drawn into the campaign by
    lot or by conscription. This could not be otherwise, for in
    order that the will of Napoleon and Alexander (on whom the
    event seemed to depend) should be carried out, the
    concurrence of innumerable circumstances was needed without
    any one of which the event could not have taken place. It was
    necessary that millions of men in whose hands lay the real
    power-the soldiers who fired, or transported provisions and
    guns-should consent to carry out the will of these weak
    individuals, and should have been induced to do so by an
    infinite number of diverse and complex causes. ...

    In historic events the so-called great men are labels giving
    names to events, and like labels they have but the smallest
    connection with the event itself.

    Every act of theirs, which appears to them an act of their
    own will, is in an historical sense involuntary and is
    related to the whole course of history and predestined
    from eternity. ...

    The luring of Napoleon into the depths of the country was
    not the result of any plan, for no one believed it to be
    possible; it resulted from a most complex interplay of
    intrigues, aims, and wishes among those who took part in
    the war and had no perception whatever of the inevitable,
    or of the one way of saving Russia. Everything came about
    fortuitously.

    A few football fans fantasize about war being merely another football
    game. Tolstoy thinks the consequences are greater:

    An army gains a victory, and at once the rights of the
    conquering nation have increased to the detriment of the
    defeated. An army has suffered defeat, and at once a people
    loses its rights in proportion to the severity of the reverse,
    and if its army suffers a complete defeat the nation is quite
    subjugated.

    Witness how enlightened Globalism spontaneously sparked a woke wake
    pyre.
    The Russian Orthodox Church (a close cousin to the Catholic Church)
    plays a prominent enough role in the novel for Napoleon to remark, "That Asiatic city of the innumerable churches, holy Moscow!"
    The Mandylion flag, emblazened with IC XC NIKA, is reportedly the
    most popular battle flag in the militias of the Donetsk and Luhansk
    People's Republics. In the end, only God Almighty determines the outcome
    of war.
    For people who love long stories - WAR AND PEACE is a very long
    story. Tolstoy made a realist out of me and his novel is recommended.


    Thank you for those fascinatingly interesting observations and
    recommendation.
    (It is four or five years since I obtained a copy but the length has
    usually influenced shorter novels to be chosen to read first as I do not
    like to be reading more than one book at a time.)

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  • From D@21:1/5 to Don on Fri Jan 31 23:51:26 2025
    On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, Don wrote:

    It's not really Science Fiction, but it's been mentioned lately.

    The parts pertaining to peaceful romance appeal to me much more than
    the warfare. Ironically, Tolstoy's tome helps me cope with armed

    Too long and boring for me. I prefer Dostoyesky any day of the week. Crime and punishment is excellent! Borther Karamazov also good. The idiot I found so-so.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Don@21:1/5 to Titus G on Sat Feb 1 15:12:00 2025
    Titus G wrote:

    <snip>

    Thank you for those fascinatingly interesting observations and recommendation.
    (It is four or five years since I obtained a copy but the length has
    usually influenced shorter novels to be chosen to read first as I do not
    like to be reading more than one book at a time.)

    And thank you for your kind words.

    "Cruelty was easy and it was for the conforming weak.
    Kindness was hard, and it was the preserve of true
    strength."

    THE DESTRUCTIVES by Matthew De Abaitua

    My greatest takeaway from WAR AND PEACE is to leave politics to
    politicians, leave diplomacy to diplomats, and leave war to generals.

    Although audiobooks are an anathema to some, they enable me to upload
    massive material into my mind with relative ease. WAR AND PEACE's
    transfer transpired faster than originally anticipated.

    A couple of reading projects beckon. One involves the exploration of Einsteinian egoism espoused by Edward Bernays, Adolph Ochs, and others.

    Poe's my other project. It's my intention to upload all of Poe's vast
    corpus. Only audiobooks make it feasible for me.

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

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  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to nospam@example.net on Sat Feb 1 08:38:49 2025
    On Fri, 31 Jan 2025 23:51:26 +0100, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:



    On Thu, 30 Jan 2025, Don wrote:

    It's not really Science Fiction, but it's been mentioned lately.

    The parts pertaining to peaceful romance appeal to me much more than
    the warfare. Ironically, Tolstoy's tome helps me cope with armed

    Too long and boring for me. I prefer Dostoyesky any day of the week. Crime and >punishment is excellent! Borther Karamazov also good. The idiot I found so-so.

    I enjoy Bondarchuck's /War and Peace/ every time I see it. I just wish
    it were complete. The novel was not memorable.

    /The Idiot/ was interesting, but ultimately pointless. If an actual
    idiot had been involved, that might have helped.

    I've experienced /Crime and Punishment/ both in novel and Classics
    Illustrated form. Somewhere, probably in a class, I was fed the
    factoid that the protagonist turns himself in because the detective
    wears him down. Imagine my surprise when I last read it to realize the
    true reason.

    /The Brothers Karamazov/ was read as part of the collection called The
    Great Books of the Western World. I didn't much like it. Perhaps if he
    had finished the projected follow-ups it would have made more sense.
    The /only/ character I had any concern about (any empathy with) was a
    small boy who dies. None of the brothers was worth reading about,
    IMHO.

    I also read other Dostoyevsky novels, notably /The Devils/ which, like
    /The Secret Agent/ (which Hitchcock filmed under the title /Saboteur/,
    having used /The Secret Agent/ for a completely different spy story
    earlier), is about The Revolution. One thing I noticed in a few of
    them were references to Jesuits trying to convert Orthodox believers
    to Roman Catholicism. This makes me wonder if the famous
    "anti-Christian" essay in /The Brothers Karamazov/ is not actually an "anti-Roman-Catholicism" essay, since it is clearly about a Roman
    Catholic institution. But I have no idea if this is the case or not.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

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  • From Don@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Sat Feb 1 17:32:30 2025
    Paul S Person wrote:
    D wrote:
    Don wrote:

    It's not really Science Fiction, but it's been mentioned lately.

    The parts pertaining to peaceful romance appeal to me much more than
    the warfare. Ironically, Tolstoy's tome helps me cope with armed

    Too long and boring for me. I prefer Dostoyesky any day of the week. Crime and
    punishment is excellent! Borther Karamazov also good. The idiot I found so-so.

    I enjoy Bondarchuck's /War and Peace/ every time I see it. I just wish
    it were complete. The novel was not memorable.

    /The Idiot/ was interesting, but ultimately pointless. If an actual
    idiot had been involved, that might have helped.

    I've experienced /Crime and Punishment/ both in novel and Classics Illustrated form. Somewhere, probably in a class, I was fed the
    factoid that the protagonist turns himself in because the detective
    wears him down. Imagine my surprise when I last read it to realize the
    true reason.

    /The Brothers Karamazov/ was read as part of the collection called The
    Great Books of the Western World. I didn't much like it. Perhaps if he
    had finished the projected follow-ups it would have made more sense.
    The /only/ character I had any concern about (any empathy with) was a
    small boy who dies. None of the brothers was worth reading about,
    IMHO.

    I also read other Dostoyevsky novels, notably /The Devils/ which, like
    /The Secret Agent/ (which Hitchcock filmed under the title /Saboteur/,
    having used /The Secret Agent/ for a completely different spy story
    earlier), is about The Revolution. One thing I noticed in a few of
    them were references to Jesuits trying to convert Orthodox believers
    to Roman Catholicism. This makes me wonder if the famous
    "anti-Christian" essay in /The Brothers Karamazov/ is not actually an "anti-Roman-Catholicism" essay, since it is clearly about a Roman
    Catholic institution. But I have no idea if this is the case or not.

    It's a shame you can't call to mind the Catholic intrigues in WAR AND
    PEACE by Tolstoy. It sort of foreshadows the creation of the Catholic Intelligence Agency (CIA) a century and change later.
    Tolstoy also talks about Freemasonry for a few chapters. Here's
    his impression:

    Finally, to the fourth category also a great many [Freemason]
    Brothers belonged, particularly those who had lately joined.
    These according to Pierre’s observations were men who had no
    belief in anything, nor desire for anything, but joined the
    Freemasons merely to associate with the wealthy young Brothers
    who were influential through their connections or rank, and
    of whom there were very many in the lodge.

    As an aside, after being banned, Freemasonry is reportedly making a
    comeback in Syria.

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Don@21:1/5 to Cryptoengineer on Sat Feb 1 21:12:58 2025
    Cryptoengineer wrote:
    Don wrote:

    <snip>

    As an aside, after being banned, Freemasonry is reportedly making a
    comeback in Syria.

    The PDF that's been floating around is regarded by actual Freemasons
    with a great deal of suspicion. It does not have any information
    establishing the legitimacy of the group that published it.
    It may well be a honeytrap to make Masons in Syria reveal themselves.

    There's an existing District Grand Lodge of Syria-Lebanon (in exile)
    in New York, with continuity back to the pre-Ba'athist days. That
    would be the proper body to re-institute Masonry in Syria.

    Thank you for the intel.
    Mao Zedong supposedly staged a similar stunt with his Hundred
    Flowers Campaign. Or maybe it was merely miscommunication between
    Zedong and his handsome, celebrity cover boy, populist Zhou Enlai.
    Gluttonously greedy crony Capitalism may meet its match if China
    opens the page to a new chapter ON PROTRACTED WAR.
    Regardless, you entered my mind when talking to two Catholic
    physicians at a Christmas party: one old and one young. The young
    Doc said he joined the Freemasons at early in his career. He was
    subsequently trolled as to whether he knew all of the secrets now?
    "Everything's been published and is available to the public."
    he answered, with a laugh. It seemed polite for me to simply move
    on to another topic instead of playing the pedant who already knew
    the material from my reading project last year.
    So, there you have it - a Catholic Freemason in ignorant bliss.

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God.
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D@21:1/5 to Paul S Person on Sun Feb 2 11:34:29 2025
    On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, Paul S Person wrote:


    Too long and boring for me. I prefer Dostoyesky any day of the week. Crime and
    punishment is excellent! Borther Karamazov also good. The idiot I found so-so.

    I enjoy Bondarchuck's /War and Peace/ every time I see it. I just wish
    it were complete. The novel was not memorable.

    /The Idiot/ was interesting, but ultimately pointless. If an actual
    idiot had been involved, that might have helped.

    This is the truth!

    I've experienced /Crime and Punishment/ both in novel and Classics Illustrated form. Somewhere, probably in a class, I was fed the
    factoid that the protagonist turns himself in because the detective
    wears him down. Imagine my surprise when I last read it to realize the
    true reason.

    I like to meditate on conscience and morality when reading it. In fact, when I watched Trumps coronation ceremony I was wondering how many in that room have blood on their hands, directly or indirectly and if any of them ever are bothered by it? Commanding militaries, sending boys into their deaths is not for
    me.

    /The Brothers Karamazov/ was read as part of the collection called The
    Great Books of the Western World. I didn't much like it. Perhaps if he
    had finished the projected follow-ups it would have made more sense.
    The /only/ character I had any concern about (any empathy with) was a
    small boy who dies. None of the brothers was worth reading about,
    IMHO.

    Yes, it does have some boring parts. Overall, the spiritual themes are interesting.

    I also read other Dostoyevsky novels, notably /The Devils/ which, like
    /The Secret Agent/ (which Hitchcock filmed under the title /Saboteur/,
    having used /The Secret Agent/ for a completely different spy story
    earlier), is about The Revolution. One thing I noticed in a few of
    them were references to Jesuits trying to convert Orthodox believers
    to Roman Catholicism. This makes me wonder if the famous
    "anti-Christian" essay in /The Brothers Karamazov/ is not actually an "anti-Roman-Catholicism" essay, since it is clearly about a Roman
    Catholic institution. But I have no idea if this is the case or not.

    Wasn't the slavophile movement in full bloom this time? Also, it is interesting how Putin today is reviving this spirit in order to culturally separate from the
    west, and create the feeling of a threatening enemy ready to pounce and destroy the soul of russia.

    Nothing new under the sun.

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  • From D@21:1/5 to Don on Sun Feb 2 11:37:30 2025
    On Sat, 1 Feb 2025, Don wrote:

    Cryptoengineer wrote:
    Don wrote:

    <snip>

    As an aside, after being banned, Freemasonry is reportedly making a
    comeback in Syria.

    The PDF that's been floating around is regarded by actual Freemasons
    with a great deal of suspicion. It does not have any information
    establishing the legitimacy of the group that published it.
    It may well be a honeytrap to make Masons in Syria reveal themselves.

    There's an existing District Grand Lodge of Syria-Lebanon (in exile)
    in New York, with continuity back to the pre-Ba'athist days. That
    would be the proper body to re-institute Masonry in Syria.

    Thank you for the intel.
    Mao Zedong supposedly staged a similar stunt with his Hundred
    Flowers Campaign. Or maybe it was merely miscommunication between
    Zedong and his handsome, celebrity cover boy, populist Zhou Enlai. Gluttonously greedy crony Capitalism may meet its match if China
    opens the page to a new chapter ON PROTRACTED WAR.
    Regardless, you entered my mind when talking to two Catholic
    physicians at a Christmas party: one old and one young. The young
    Doc said he joined the Freemasons at early in his career. He was
    subsequently trolled as to whether he knew all of the secrets now?
    "Everything's been published and is available to the public."
    he answered, with a laugh. It seemed polite for me to simply move
    on to another topic instead of playing the pedant who already knew
    the material from my reading project last year.
    So, there you have it - a Catholic Freemason in ignorant bliss.

    I thought as a faithful obedient catholic, you could not join it?

    As for the details, only the husk is available publicly, the living,
    thriving essence can only be transmitted in person through the rituals.
    Through that process, the dry outer descriptions are transformed into a
    wealth of inner meaning, and your soul is purified!

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. https://crcomp.net/reviews.php telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. Walk humbly with thy God. tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' Make 1984 fiction again.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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